There is no evidence that he can't be great, but the probabilities are against it.
The Argument for Giggs as our Next Manager
- Thread starter Walrus
- Start date
- Status
There is no evidence that he can't be great, but the probabilities are against it.
Agree.
I don't think anyone is advocating always taking the sentimental choice no matter who that choice is. This is a one off though. Possibly our last ever one club man. Club legend. Brought through as a youngster. Won it all as a player. There's no equivalent to Ryan Giggs.
I like the idea actually but mainly because Giggs always used to be my favourite. It's still hard for me to tell if he is really any good as a manager though. I feel a good manager always needs a very commanding personality and I'm not quite sure that Giggs has this. He seems to tame at times but of course I never experienced him behind closed doors or on the training ground. Naturally just jelling at players doesn't get you results either, otherwise Keane would probably already be our manager.
But hey you know what? I don't really have any favourite for taking over from LvG apart from maybe Ancelotti but who knows where he is in one or two years? feck it let's give Giggsy a chance, Guardiola didn't have much experience either before he took over Barca so experience isn't the only thing that matters in managing a club.
But hey you know what? I don't really have any favourite for taking over from LvG apart from maybe Ancelotti but who knows where he is in one or two years? feck it let's give Giggsy a chance, Guardiola didn't have much experience either before he took over Barca so experience isn't the only thing that matters in managing a club.
Guardiola had an experience, he knew that he had to test his skills and ideas by himself, that's why he took Barcelona B. If Giggs doesn't do that I will have a doubt about him, about his motivation.
Honestly that doesn't surprise me one bit.
He always comes across like someone who motivates people through fear. Fear of him kicking their asses but this sort of motivation can only get you so far.
Not really!
Barca had won the European Cup two years before Pep arrived. Sure that Barca had gone a little stale under Rijkaard (only to the semi finals of the CL in his last season) but Pep didn't drag them from adversity by a long shot. The core of his team was already there.
They finished behind Villarreal the season before Guardiola and it was clear that they were heading in the wrong direction. He set the new tone.
Granted he managed their second team for some time, which was certainly not a bad experience. Even though it's not really comparable I guess that would be a good next step for Giggs to manage our reserves for a year or two.
People are forgetting that Barca have a far better supporting structure than United. It is more easy for a Barca manager to start working than for a United manager. They have directors of football and other shit.
Obviously, in turn it is more difficult to survive in Barca than in United if the manager doesn't win titles.
I don't see many Pep-Giggs comparisons, bar that they were good players. Neither on Barca-United.
Obviously, in turn it is more difficult to survive in Barca than in United if the manager doesn't win titles.
I don't see many Pep-Giggs comparisons, bar that they were good players. Neither on Barca-United.
TBH no I don't. With Giggs in charge it would destroy all the hard work we have built up in challenging \ winning titles.
It's important for him, like I said he needs to be sure that he understands how to convey his thoughts, how to adjust when problems occurs. To me he doesn't need to be particularly successful somewhere else, if the club think he is a good candidate, we should send him somewhere for a year or two.
I still hold the firm opinion that he needs to go out and prove himself capable of the job. He's won it all as a player, but even Moyes had more merit to take over as our manager.
He's already the assistant manager, there is no higher role to go into. I agree with @Chesterlestreet a few pages ago, you aren't going to get him out of that assistant role without moving him out of the club and virtually completely shutting any window he has of getting the managerial job. Simply occupying that position he'd be absolutely insane to go out and 'get experience'. He either goes from there to the managerial role or goes off on his own merry way never to return in my opinion.
I get what you are saying, but he's done his time on the pitch. I also understand that he doesn't have various experience around other facets of managing the club but if you want him at United and are prepared to back him long term then he needs no other experience. He knows the club inside out already, I see no other point in moving if it were up to me.
If the club didn't really have that vision going forward and do think he has no chance of moving into the managerial seat one day then by your (s and others) theory then it was completely pointless giving him the assistant role. Unless he sits in it for another managerial tenure and gains even more knowledge.. Which in my opinion would still be more beneficial then moving outside the club to cut his teeth in entirely different stomping grounds. If he can guide United forward then the unique situation that presents itself is aligned perfectly for him to move straight in with minimal outside experience.
I have no idea what is going on in the finer detail but it seems a bit logically daft to make him assistant and then not promote him when the time comes?... But that is just my take on it.
Things had gone wrong under FR but they still had the best squad in the world along with us.
Let legend becomes legend. We'll find the next saf and make a legend out of him. Whoever he is
What is absolutely essential for the club is that whoever takes over does so on the basis that they continue LVGs way. Unless of course it does disastrously wrong this season which I very much doubt.
Many posters have already said it and his track record proves that LVG is great at laying successful foundations. It may mean that he personally isn't considered a success at the time but he'll set it up for the next manager.
So whoever takes over needs to consider that style whilst maybe making a couple of subtle changes. Unless of course all is perfect and then if it ain't broke!
Who better to take over than someone at the club based on that argument? Someone who knows the club and has worked closely with the manager?
But I can see the argument that he needs to get hands on experience somewhere else.
God I feel like a politician here or a football pundit... I'm sat on the fence getting splinters.
Many posters have already said it and his track record proves that LVG is great at laying successful foundations. It may mean that he personally isn't considered a success at the time but he'll set it up for the next manager.
So whoever takes over needs to consider that style whilst maybe making a couple of subtle changes. Unless of course all is perfect and then if it ain't broke!
Who better to take over than someone at the club based on that argument? Someone who knows the club and has worked closely with the manager?
But I can see the argument that he needs to get hands on experience somewhere else.
God I feel like a politician here or a football pundit... I'm sat on the fence getting splinters.
The thing is. We all thought he made a great manager by the same assumption people made with giggs (minus the youth product and all)
And 99 out of a 100 ex players turns out to be average manager at best. There are only 10 names worthy of managing united compared to thousands of ex players.
Are we willing to take that risk? On the downside giggs legendary status is at stake, saf took a huge dent on his status due to moyes fiasco. It'll forever be his footnote
It would be a good story to tell. That's about it.
Everything else would be the same. And good stories can be told about any manager and their tenure, regardless of their connection to the club.
But yeah, just label everyone who would rather think like an adult 'robotic bastards'.
Because that's the harsh truth that a lot of people are not saying out of politeness: Most of those (not all obviously) who want Giggs to take over sound like children with their reasoning.
You say this isn't just a business for us to be fans of. Well it isn't a fecking movie either, this is real life and some of you need to wake the hell up.
RAWK gets an unfair rep on here.
It's definitely in the same ballpark.
They did but to say they did not need manager is unfair to Guardiola. I guarantee that a lot of managers would have failed badly at that job. Tata Martino is a decent manager and he failed in the league and CL to Atletico because they had a better manager.
The next manager needs to be chosen on merit, not for sentimental reasons. If we had the chance for either Jurgen Klopp or Pep Guardiola, both very accomplished managers and we opted for Ryan Giggs I'd be most disappointed.
I feel the "romanticism" argument here is being painted as the main thing over the last page or two. In truth that was not, and never was the main case for Ryan Giggs.
The strongest argument is continuity and the fact that he is already being groomed and taught by the best to take over from LVG. These are not sentimental or romantic arguments, but ones of practicality and genuine merit, for me.
The strongest argument is continuity and the fact that he is already being groomed and taught by the best to take over from LVG. These are not sentimental or romantic arguments, but ones of practicality and genuine merit, for me.
Excellent opening post. I think you may be correct with your arguments, but the romanticism can't be ignored either. It's a bonus factor.
This
I do agree and will admit that the romanticism is also a factor for me, but I wouldnt have made the thread if I didnt believe that Giggs' appointment had very real merit as well.
Cheers though!
As much as Zinedine Zidane is regarded as a modern legend for Real Madrid and went from assistant coach with the first team to head coach of the Real Madrid Castilla team after being named advisor to the president, they didn't dare looking at him to replace Ancelotti. So I'm not in the mood to see United fall into romanticism by appointing Giggs at all while so few of the other big clubs out there are willing to go on sentimentalism when they appoint new managers.
You're right here, doing well with a mid table club in a similar fashion to Moyes would not qualify him to be Manchester United manager. He'd need to go and win a league title or CL with another club then we can consider taking him, because that's what's on offer with our other options Klopp/Ancelotti/Pep etc.
Otherwise he can stay away from the United post.
Real Madrid is hardly the standard we want to be following when it comes to the hiring and firing of managers.
Who's this 'best' that has groomed him?
Do we really want someone continuing the work LVG is currently doing?
Nope, but what I meant is that they are not falling into romanticism either. In the end, it's almost useless to think of Ryan Giggs as our next manager if he doesn't make his mark in a less familiar context. Bar Guardiola at Barcelona, all other managers who made their way to become greats made their mark elsewhere before their appointment at a big club.
This whole thing mightn't be a discussion point had Pep failed at Barcelona.
A more recent example is Garry Monk. OK, Swansea obviously isnt the same club as United, but the principle and logic is pretty much the same. You can belittle Swansea all you like and scoff, but they have done pretty well lately and especially under Monk - it is more the point of the impact it can have, having an established figure within the club who knows the staff and the team. Giggs would of course have the advantage of already having been in a staff role learning from LVG prior to taking over.
Personally, I rate Giggs' knowledge of the club, relationship with it, the staff and the players, and his tuition under LVG as more useful than if he went and spent 5 years at Newcastle.
@RooneyLegend What LVG is doing is sorting out the transition that we all knew was going to be required after SAF left, and that Moyes didnt have the bottle (or perhaps, wasnt trusted) to do. I agree that some of his tactical decisions etc are a bit odd at times, but the squad we have is for me the best since 2008. It is obvious that the groundwork LVG is laying down should form the spine and basis of a strong team that can remain competitive for years after he goes - however that will not happen if we bring in Klopp, who chucks out the staff and overhauls the squad again to suit his own system and preferences.
I refer you to my tagline for this thread.
LVG doesn't look like he's guiding the team through a successful transition. There's question marks over whether LVG is going to take us to the promise land, yet there's already think of whether Giggs can continue the work, as if its already decided that its good work.
Klopp wouldn't overhaul the squad apart from the not so quality players. This expensive LVG experiment doesn't look like its going to bear any fruit and our biggest signing after him has already failed.
In terms of the very successful managers from history who didn't have prior experience before being successful; in addition to Guardiola I can also think of Bob Paisley (and the rest of the boot room), Albert Batteux, Miguel Muñoz, and arguably Guus Hiddink (he went straight from assistant to manager at PSV without any prior managerial experience), possibly even Louis Van Gaal (similar to Hiddink). I'm sure there are more.
I think it's a bit early to say that, Last season was about assessing the squad, finding the right style and rebuilding part of the squad and the confidence after the Moyes era. This season will be the one to judge him on, but we can't do that after one game!
We'll bloody well try our hardest though!
It's a start.
Are you asking me the exact criteria for hiring a manager? The whole "Giggs for manager" campaign seems based in the firm grounding of "why not?" and "how do really judge managers anyway?"
Can Giggs even achieve what Rodgers has so far, let alone prove himself the way Guardiola? We lose nothing by telling him to prove himself and replicate those guys.
It's one way to find out whether he can do what pulis has done (done great with little teams playing little team football), what Rodgers has done (done great with little teams playing big teams football and now at a pretty big team) or what klopp, simeone and mourinho have done (proven themselves to eventually becoming top managers).
At what stage you hire him? That depends on what he achieves. But the idea that for Giggs it's straightaway gold or nothing, is downright bizarre. I do get the feeling that he will be our next manager but I strongly disagree with it being that immediate and lacking in process.
Actually its you who doesnt appear to understand this "romance" thing.
Those of us who watched utd during those years when we won bugger all remember quite clearly how good Coppell was, how hard he worked, how he did his best all the time, how he became one of Englands key players and how he was one of the players that we fans could rely on week in week out. He ended up having a bunch of injury issues towards the end. He didnt win a bunch of trophies because he simply didnt get to play under the best manager of all time. Utd fans from that era remember just how important Coppell was to us. It was a major deal for us as fans when we won the FA Cup in 1977 and stopped Liverpool winning the treble. Coppell had a big game that day. Tons of romance there for us fans of that era.
BTW Coppell was a fecking good player. He holds the record for the most consecutive appearances for an outfield Manchester United player – 207 from 1977 to 1981 – which still stands to this day.
You need to go think about what the romantic thing really is.
Last edited:
- Status