Ole played with a higher defensive line, and was overall a bit more dominant IMO, especially in 20/21, than ETH's 22/23 United team. We also approached big games with a much better and more pragmatic game plan than under ETH. The big game results reflect that too IMO.
Ten Hag sacked | Ruud appointed Interim Manager
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
- Status
Ole played with a higher defensive line, and was overall a bit more dominant IMO, especially in 20/21, than ETH's 22/23 United team. We also approached big games with a much better and more pragmatic game plan than under ETH. The big game results reflect that too IMO.
No, it’s the shape ,
feck this always happens to meI still don't get why he's considered a good coach
Luckily for you, the new one has a very different shape. Or perhaps we should say lickilyNo, it’s the shape ,
He is a coach that failed here, it's that simple, I couldn't care less if he is a good coach or not, Mou won plenty of major trophies and failed here, Ole won nothing major and failed here, people are stuck on how good Ten Hag was, he was deemed good enough by the powers to be and hired him, a lot of people, fans or media, thought he was an excellent hire, he reached a UCL semi final beating RM and won FA cup final beating City, does that make him a good coach? I don't care for the answer really because ultimately he failed here, if Pep comes here and fails I wouldn't care how good he is or was.
Sorry for the long and unnecessary rant, but I just think that sometimes we are stuck on things that do not matter, for example, Amorim is a coach, you might think he is good or shit coach, the current sentiment in the caf says he is a good coac, that doesn't matter to me one bit, because right now he is the Head Coach of Manchester United, all I care about is if he will succeed here or not, I don't care about anything else.
Cause there's a section of fans that built him up so much before arriving, as the next Pep/Klopp that it's difficult for them to revert to reality. I've a friend who literally said that if ETH fails at United, nobody will ever succeed again. Mind boggling claim.
I agree that might've been what happened and I am afraid it will happen with Amorim if he is elevated to something he might not be.
I don't know if we have an appreciation thread for ETH. He did his best for us. He remains a fantastic manager. Things did not just go his way. But for sure, he left better players and a better structure than he inherited. I wish he won us the title but I totally agree with the sack.
New one has hair lickilyLuckily for you, the new one has a very different shape. Or perhaps we should say lickily
I disagree with this post mostly, but here you go mate: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/erik-ten-hag-appreciation-thread.485343/
We're so used to having our hopes dashed, I can understand your friend's comment. Since WWII, we have had two really successful managers. All the rest have fallen short by a long way. Following Busby was an impossible task (but we did tend to sabotage our managers) and following Fergie has proved to be an even higher mountain to climb. Only those two have brought the league title to Old Trafford.
He ultimately failed at United but he did well at Ajax, and it would be unfair to ignore that. Highest win rate of any of their managers by a distance, and turned over some big teams in the Champions League.
They hadn't won the league in five seasons when he took over, then he won it with them three in a row (and it would have been four had the covid season not been called off). They haven't won it since either.
The United role chewed him up in the end, as it has every manager since Fergie. He can bounce back like Emery did at Villa after struggling at Arsenal.
I don't understand the desperate need we have as fans to shit on our ex-players and managers, and say outlandish things like they're the worst coach in the PL etc (I appreciate you're not saying this exactly - but I've seen it said a lot)
His record at Ajax is not that disimilar to Amorim at Sporting I'm reasonably confident Amorim is more suited to the role as he seems to have a lot more personality about him (which you absolutely need as a United manager) but I also wouldn't be astonished if he struggles.
I agree with you are saying, and the bolded part is the only thing that matters and should matter, whether Ten Hag is/was good manager should not matter, so I don't get why many posters are hell bent in telling us he is a shit manager, or even he is/was fantastic manager, even though I think he is a good coach, these are basically meaningless things to say, as a United supporter, I only care about success (winning PL and CL), anything else is beside the point, and for our new Head Coach, I appreciate why he is selected, I appreciate what he could potentially bring and all, but as of now none of that matters, what matters is can he succeed or not.
Ever since start of last season we've been like this. Ten Hag won us 2 cups but actually made us midtable team in league. Not to mention how much he struggled in CL last season. Terrible, terrible, terrible. Hopefully things will improve now at least to an extent.
The creamy middles are the best.
We have over 100 hundred press conferences and interviews where we seen his English wasn't great and didn't seem to improve.
But yeah agree with the 2nd part.
This has been said about every manager post SAF. It makes me genuinely wonder do people think there are managers out there that don't try their best?
Even more than that, are there so many managers out there half arsing jobs at clubs that it deserves special praise when one puts in a bit of effort.
I think both times we probably fell into the same trap of trying to find the next Busby and we've spent the last decade not changing anything about the structure of the club and simply hoping some manager can replicate Ferguson's success. The club needs to move away from the idea of having a long term manager and just focus on getting the club and the squad into a position where it's difficult not to compete and win things regardless of who the manager is.
Yeah I’ve never understood “he did his best” as praise just like I think it’s cringeworthy when fans applaud a player for “trying hard” on the pitch. Both should be bare minimums for any professional, much less professionals competing at the pinnacle of the sport. You don’t get plaudits for trying, this isnt a charity match for a bunch of disabled and underprivileged kids.This has been said about every manager post SAF. It makes me genuinely wonder do people think there are managers out there that don't try their best?
Even more than that, are there so many managers out there half arsing jobs at clubs that it deserves special praise when one puts in a bit of effort.
Do you really see a big difference between Ten Hag and this guy?
I know that Pep is an extreme example, but I used this one on purpose because his teams actually do play very sophisticated, if not robotic, football. I would assume this requires excellent communication skills to sell this to the players.
I don't buy this "poor communication" narrative at all. The truth is very simple. If you're winning you can say all kind of crazy shit and you'll be the crazy genius in the room. If you're losing, you'll always look like a donkey on press conference no matter what you say, and how you say it.
Ten Hag was nothing more than a poor manager with bad ideas.
He is not a fantastic manager.
He spent more than virtually any other club on the planet and during his time here, whoever we played, it felt like we were the underdogs.
If a new manager was interviewed and told that he'd be given £600M to spend in 2.5 years. If then asked what league placing would be realistic, he'd likely say top 4 or top 3.
Nobody would accept finishing in 8th place. The interviewee would likely joke that he should be fired if he finished in 8th place.
ETH, did a good job in the first season, but when he finished 8th, he should've been dismissed.
His level, in the EPL, would likely be a team near the bottom of the league or fighting relegation.
I think he is too good for the Championship (unlikely Ole, who I think is a Championship level manager).
Yes I think ETH has overall been a poor manager. The good points about him is probably just getting rid of some players and having an air of leadership in him.
1. Tactics 2/10. ETH generally failed at tactics. Slow to changes and always sticking to the same 4231 tactic. He also fielded the same first 11 most of the time. No creativity.
2. Transfers 2/10. The players that he bought are generally quite bad. The players that he bought this season don't really count.
3. Management 6/10. He does command the team quite well and players are still willing to listen to him in general. He also got rid of some players like Cr7, De Gea and Sancho.
Eth is a manager who needs 11 excellent players to play for him. Then he can get the best out of them because he also won't sub them out or change tactics by much. If he had a team of peak Cr7, peak Rooney and Tevez, Giggs and Scholes, Rio and Vidic VDS, he may do well.
1. Tactics 2/10. ETH generally failed at tactics. Slow to changes and always sticking to the same 4231 tactic. He also fielded the same first 11 most of the time. No creativity.
2. Transfers 2/10. The players that he bought are generally quite bad. The players that he bought this season don't really count.
3. Management 6/10. He does command the team quite well and players are still willing to listen to him in general. He also got rid of some players like Cr7, De Gea and Sancho.
Eth is a manager who needs 11 excellent players to play for him. Then he can get the best out of them because he also won't sub them out or change tactics by much. If he had a team of peak Cr7, peak Rooney and Tevez, Giggs and Scholes, Rio and Vidic VDS, he may do well.
Do we really need this thread now that Ruud is no more interim manager and Amorin has taken over?
I guess it's being used as a place for people to vent their frustrations over what Ten Hag has put us through.
In terms of their levels of English yes I do. Pep isn't amazingly fluent in English but it's certainly better than Ten Hag's in my opinion.
That said while I think it was a factor in Ten Hag's failure I doubt it was the main one. Stubborningly trying to implement and then stick with a nonsensicial style of football was mainly his undoing.
Has ETH been hired by a school as a PE Teacher yet?
If you’re Dutch born into extreme wealth and working in a very international environment and still, after living few years in the UK, you speak bad English and find excuses about language communication you have to be either very lazy and put zero effort or extremely thick.
To put the effort into improve something you have to acknowledge you need to improve. Maybe he genuinely thought his English was great.
Imagine being paid 200k per week, doing a terrible job, delivering worst results in club's modern history and it all being excused by "doing his best". United could hire me and will do my best for 1/10th of that.
Except you’re a nobody and wouldn’t have us winning anything except relegation.
Ten Hag underperformed in the end but he had good moments, winning trophies, and has proven pedigree from before United. He’s obviously a good manager and will go on and be successful elsewhere I am sure.
I could almost guarantee anything that you would not win 2 trophies and get 3rd.
Yeah but he is getting paid 10% of Ten Hag.
Very good and measured post. Kudos to you
You're being to sensible and pragmatic with a Amorim bit though, I don't like that!
Ole wasn't able to take us to the top level, he was far from a championship manager though, his league finishes in his two full seasons show that.
With Ten Hag, he would be terrible as the manager of a team near the bottom of the Premier League. If his ideas were a mess with the resources Utd had at their disposal during his tenure, they would be an absolute disaster for teams with less in the same league. He could potentially do alright again in another league.
Its revisionism.. I remember pre season in Far East when Ten Hag first took over and we were all excited, having a proper coach, we saw clips and got excited.
The people who say he is not a top coach.. clearly are only rating him on Manutd, similar to Arsenal fans who though Emry was not a top coach.
There are massive similarities between Amorim and Ten Hag, for what they done at their respective clubs before joining. Whilst there are some differences, in personality more, we have to realise that we have been here before.
This is why some fans, when you talk to them on a real level rather than the banter time, will say, it is not straight forward as we have been burnt by Ten Hag. Hopefully he is better for us.
Well, you don't know me and relegation isn't far from where we were heading to with Ten Hag.
He could go to smaller club and be succesful there, or he could be another De Boer. Nothing he has done suggests he's a "fantastic coach". But hey, he did his best.
His signings are still here, a guy like Antony who he coached and knew, has stunk this place out on and off the field.
He was also unlucky with injuries, Yoro for example might have made a difference to how this season had worked out, that penalty in his last game too, we will never know what might have been.
But yes I remember watching training videos when ETH took over, movements and passing drills, just was never seen on the pitch.
Hopefully our luck has turned, as we need luck along with everything else.
Right, just quick digging.. lets not do all this revisionism because even you thought he was a good manager.
Nothing he’s done suggests he’s a fantastic coach…(I didn’t say that but, whatever) how do you think he secured the man united gig?
He obviously has/had something and his record at Ajax was brilliant. Whether he goes on and is successful or not doesn’t take away the good work he’s done.
brilliant post.- Status