Ten Hag sacked | Ruud appointed Interim Manager

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Berbasbullet said:
Nothing he’s done suggests he’s a fantastic coach…(I didn’t say that but, whatever) how do you think he secured the man united gig?

He obviously has/had something and his record at Ajax was brilliant. Whether he goes on and is successful or not doesn’t take away the good work he’s done.

:lol: brilliant post.
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I get it, we have all had takes where in hindsight looks like.. what was I thinking? I have made claims in the past and been made to look a fool.

However; on Ten Hag, why are fans acting as if they all knew all along he was going to be bad? I recall arguing with fans who said.. why would Ten Hag join United? Thats how some rated him, we were all excited by the appointment and though, he is a top coach.

People gave examples of all the players he coached and turned out to be brilliant.. beating top clubs in CL.

He didn't work at United.. but he was a top coach before coming to United.
 
romufc said:
I get it, we have all had takes where in hindsight looks like.. what was I thinking? I have made claims in the past and been made to look a fool.

However; on Ten Hag, why are fans acting as if they all knew all along he was going to be bad? I recall arguing with fans who said.. why would Ten Hag join United? Thats how some rated him, we were all excited by the appointment and though, he is a top coach.

People gave examples of all the players he coached and turned out to be brilliant.. beating top clubs in CL.

He didn't work at United.. but he was a top coach before coming to United.
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Completely agree! We were all really excited to finally have a modern coach (who was touted to be Peps replacement). It didn’t work out in the end, but it doesn’t make Ten Hag a complete donkey and a fan could have done the same job.
 
It’ll be interesting to see if he returns to Ajax or gets another good job to see how he fares. I have my suspicions that he was aided by that Ajax structure/academy more than we think, but if he goes back there or somewhere else and has good success again then huge credit to him.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
It’ll be interesting to see if he returns to Ajax or gets another good job to see how he fares. I have my suspicions that he was aided by that Ajax structure/academy more than we think, but if he goes back there or somewhere else and has good success again then huge credit to him.
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I think he'd be great back in Holland again. I always felt like his grasp of English was fairly limited which caused massive issues for him.
 
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Tosicsleftpeg said:
I think he'd be great back in Holland again. I always felt like his grasp of English was fairly limited which caused massive issues for him.
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Very possible

I do wish we could get unbiased accounting of stuff like his time here, but the issue is any story that comes out it's hard to truly believe because you just assume the source has an agenda either way.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
It’ll be interesting to see if he returns to Ajax or gets another good job to see how he fares. I have my suspicions that he was aided by that Ajax structure/academy more than we think, but if he goes back there or somewhere else and has good success again then huge credit to him.
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You'd think Ajax would be falling over themselves to try to get him back. In the last nine seasons, Ajax have only won the title three times and they were the three full seasons that ETH had there (probably would have been four times out of ten seasons if the Covid season hadn't been called off). And they are already seven points off the top spot this season (albeit with a game in hand). He failed here, but obviously did very well with Ajax.

Would be interesting to see if ETH would go back there or if he'd wait to see what level English/Spanish/Italian/German team would give him a chance.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
It’ll be interesting to see if he returns to Ajax or gets another good job to see how he fares. I have my suspicions that he was aided by that Ajax structure/academy more than we think, but if he goes back there or somewhere else and has good success again then huge credit to him.
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He was brilliant for Ajax, let's not diminish his work at Ajax because he was shit with us, Amorim could fail with us but that won't make his work with Sporting meaningless, he helped them win a 2 league titles after 19 years, Ten Hag won 3 titles with Ajax on the trot after 9 years as well as reached CL Semi final since god knows how long it has been for Ajax, and since he left they hadn't won the league.

Let's keep it simple, he was shit with us, great with Ajax, if he succeeds elsewhere it won't change the fact that he was shit with us and him being shit with us won't change the fact he was great at Ajax
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
He was brilliant for Ajax, let's not diminish his work at Ajax because he was shit with us, Amorim could fail with us but that won't make his work with Sporting meaningless, he helped them win a 2 league titles after 19 years, Ten Hag won 3 titles with Ajax on the trot after 9 years as well as reached CL Semi final since god knows how long it has been for Ajax, and since he left they hadn't won the league.

Let's keep it simple, he was shit with us, great with Ajax, if he succeeds elsewhere it won't change the fact that he was shit with us and him being shit with us won't change the fact he was great at Ajax
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Emery was good with every club but Arsenal and now he's the bees' knees at Villa.
 
horsechoker said:
Emery was good with every club but Arsenal and now he's the bees' knees at Villa.
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Ancelotti wasn't good at Napoli but brilliant with Madrid, Flick was amazing with Bayern but not so good with Germany, plenty of examples of coaches doing well or bad at different clubs.
 
horsechoker said:
Emery was good with every club but Arsenal and now he's the bees' knees at Villa.
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He was good at Arsenal as well. Went to Europa league final and also had a 22 games unbeaten run. Arsenal just had no patience.
 
I still think he is a good coach but he has massive flaws; talent ID, in game management and inflexibility. I still can't believe that for such a modern coach he never bought a quick and technical CB and despite many midfield signings he never signed a Carrick type of midfielder who I'd think is pretty crucial to how they system he wanted to implement.

Pretty much all of signings, bar Antony but he isn't part of the spine, struggled with the physical demands of a high line. I still believe that the decision to discontinue Rangnick's involvement and rely on Murtough and Ten Hag, who had never filled a squad building role at the very top level is what really killed his chances here. He didn't quite appreciate the physicality of this league and his tactics put his players, who were slow to begin with, at a disadvantage.

Rangnick had the advantage of working 6 months with the squad in this league. He knew it's demands and the players' weaknesses and he had the network, talent identification skills needed to recruit players suited to what ETH was trying to build. Guess the suits feared his 'open heart surgery' prognosis but it's what we ended up doing but then bringing in more expensive flops.
 
AneRu said:
I still think he is a good coach but he has massive flaws; talent ID, in game management and inflexibility. I still can't believe that for such a modern coach he never bought a quick and technical CB and despite many midfield signings he never signed a Carrick type of midfielder who I'd think is pretty crucial to how they system he wanted to implement.

Pretty much all of signings, bar Antony but he isn't part of the spine, struggled with the physical demands of a high line. I still believe that the decision to discontinue Rangnick's involvement and rely on Murtough and Ten Hag, who had never filled a squad building role at the very top level is what really killed his chances here. He didn't quite appreciate the physicality of this league and his tactics put his players, who were slow to begin with, at a disadvantage.

Rangnick had the advantage of working 6 months with the squad in this league. He knew it's demands and the players' weaknesses and he had the network, talent identification skills needed to recruit players suited to what ETH was trying to build. Guess the suits feared his 'open heart surgery' prognosis but it's what we ended up doing but then bringing in more expensive flops.
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Again, from his time here, what makes him a good coach. People just throw this out there, but genuinely speaking, we also signed Antony because he seemed good at Ajax. Every big club hires a manager because they seem like they could be good, but ultimately, when they fail and how they fail, determines they're reputation.

Ten Hag wasn't sacked unfairly....he was given a lot of time to prove that he was a good coach. Aside from a few months in the 22/23 season, he really showed very little to suggest that he was a good coach. His in-game management was terrible. He showed the poorest adaptability i've seen from any coach at a big club, from not being able to use Ronaldo to making excuses about Shaw and Martinez not being in the team. I also question his leadership and attitude. His press conferences prior to and after the FA cup were embarrassing, yet our fans were so busy focusing on opposition fans and the media, they they missed his constant disrespect and failure to take accountability. This man had us in a tactic that gloriously failed for almost all of last season, and showed very little ability to adapt to change our situation. He just sat on his hands and waited to the end of the season before rolling out excuses. For a team of our size and the money that was spent, last season and the start of this season is the worst managerial performance I've seen at a big club.

In comparison, both Jose and Ole were able to achieve multiple periods of consistency. Jose's teams were tough to play against and could comfortably scrap out wins against teams outside the big 6. He was particularly strong at home games and had the occassional ability for one of his Jose defensive masterclasses. Ole's teams were also difficult to beat at points, they were great on the counter and could muster big wins against big teams. His only real weakness as a United manager, was his inability to break down parked buses, which resulted in many draws and losses that kept us from being serious challengers. He had good defensive ideas, but didn't have the tactical nous in attack to drive us forward.

With ETH, I genuinely can't think of a positive for him, and out of all the managers, he gave us the worst football, for the longest period, despite having the best squad.
 
tjb said:
Again, from his time here, what makes him a good coach. People just throw this out there, but genuinely speaking, we also signed Antony because he seemed good at Ajax. Every big club hires a manager because they seem like they could be good, but ultimately, when they fail and how they fail, determines they're reputation.

Ten Hag wasn't sacked unfairly....he was given a lot of time to prove that he was a good coach. Aside from a few months in the 22/23 season, he really showed very little to suggest that he was a good coach. His in-game management was terrible. He showed the poorest adaptability i've seen from any coach at a big club, from not being able to use Ronaldo to making excuses about Shaw and Martinez not being in the team. I also question his leadership and attitude. His press conferences prior to and after the FA cup were embarrassing, yet our fans were so busy focusing on opposition fans and the media, they they missed his constant disrespect and failure to take accountability. This man had us in a tactic that gloriously failed for almost all of last season, and showed very little ability to adapt to change our situation. He just sat on his hands and waited to the end of the season before rolling out excuses. For a team of our size and the money that was spent, last season and the start of this season is the worst managerial performance I've seen at a big club.

In comparison, both Jose and Ole were able to achieve multiple periods of consistency. Jose's teams were tough to play against and could comfortably scrap out wins against teams outside the big 6. He was particularly strong at home games and had the occassional ability for one of his Jose defensive masterclasses. Ole's teams were also difficult to beat at points, they were great on the counter and could muster big wins against big teams. His only real weakness as a United manager, was his inability to break down parked buses, which resulted in many draws and losses that kept us from being serious challengers. He had good defensive ideas, but didn't have the tactical nous in attack to drive us forward.

With ETH, I genuinely can't think of a positive for him, and out of all the managers, he gave us the worst football, for the longest period, despite having the best squad.
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He did well at Ajax and failed on the step up to United where he didn't have the structural support that he had at there. Then his flaws just dragged him towards a chronic decline after a good first season. The frustrating thing about him is that he had in him to play conservatively, for results as proven by his FA Cup run and the matches after the disaster at Crystal Palace. So it was a character flaw not a lack of skill that did him in.
 
It’s really not complicated.

He’s a good coach/manager based on his record at Ajax.

Hes not a bad coach/manager based on his achievements at United (3 finals, 2 winners medals)

He wasn’t good enough at the United job based on the support he received (signings and fans backing)
 
Frank de Boer won more Eredivisie titles than Ten Hag. Let’s not pretend that success in the Dutch league is any kind of barometer of being an elite, or even a good manager. Even McClaren won the league there with Twente.

He’s completely average, and in the top leagues completely out of his depth.
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
He was brilliant for Ajax, let's not diminish his work at Ajax because he was shit with us, Amorim could fail with us but that won't make his work with Sporting meaningless, he helped them win a 2 league titles after 19 years, Ten Hag won 3 titles with Ajax on the trot after 9 years as well as reached CL Semi final since god knows how long it has been for Ajax, and since he left they hadn't won the league.

Let's keep it simple, he was shit with us, great with Ajax, if he succeeds elsewhere it won't change the fact that he was shit with us and him being shit with us won't change the fact he was great at Ajax
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Pretty much this. He came here, tried to implement his tactics, it didn't work out. I think its more likely than not that he will do well in his next job wherever that is. This United job as seen by our results since Fergie left is a huge task for a manager. He just joins a list of other managers who have failed at it. I honestly don't understand the bitterness from some sections of our support. He got 2 trophies, as much as Jose, and failed to get us to challenge for the league or get us back to the top as did every other manager post Fergie. He leaves as the second most succesful post Fergie manager.
 
I'll be following and supporting his managerial career till he retires. He was always respectful towards the club and never made a controversial comment.
 
tjb said:
With ETH, I genuinely can't think of a positive for him, and out of all the managers, he gave us the worst football, for the longest period, despite having the best squad.
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GoodTimes said:
Frank de Boer won more Eredivisie titles than Ten Hag. Let’s not pretend that success in the Dutch league is any kind of barometer of being an elite, or even a good manager. Even McClaren won the league there with Twente.

He’s completely average, and in the top leagues completely out of his depth
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This is nonsense.. whilst he deserved to be sacked. He won 2 cups... you dont do that unless you have a bit about you as a coach.

Its not just he won the Eredivisie that he got the job, you do realise that?

He built 2 different sides, playing different football. So in his first team, he had De Ligt, FdJ, Donny and the like with a false 9 and then his team got ripped apart as he sold most of the players in 2 years... so he had to re-build the team and this time he built it with a Striker in Haller.

Both occasions he done well in the CL too. With the first team, he was not just winning games against Porto and the like, he went away to Juventus, Real Madrid and outplayed them. In the second team he won 6/6 in the CL...

Lets not discredit his previous work. He was crap for us and deserved to be sacked but did really well at Ajax.. they haven't won the league since.
 
Ten Hag biggest problem was that he never understood the Premiership . No tactics , no style , no identity ,even not brave enough to drop players out of form . Wish him good luck but he’s not Premiership level .
 
His inability to sort out the massive gaps in midfield is what make me question his coaching.
 
Ten Hag always struck me as an Emery type coach.
Wrong guy at the wrong place at the wrong time, but not a shite coach.

Emery looked clueless in the shitshow that was PSG, not suited at Arsenal, but no one can deny he did great in Spain and at Villa.

I think Ten Hag might have a same trajectory, ie not suited to top clubs/highly mediatised clubs, but can be a solid coach for an underdog
 
Those saying ETH was a bad manager have it coming. I know this too well. New manager, all rosy picture, new training methods, incredible work ethic etc etc. All this doesn't come to anything in the second season.

I really want to be proven wrong, but I believe the best managers would fail here over a long term. Shame.
 
Zed is not dead said:
Ten Hag always struck me as an Emery type coach.
Wrong guy at the wrong place at the wrong time, but not a shite coach.

Emery looked clueless in the shitshow that was PSG, not suited at Arsenal, but no one can deny he did great in Spain and at Villa.

I think Ten Hag might have a same trajectory, ie not suited to top clubs/highly mediatised clubs, but can be a solid coach for an underdog
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Emery only did "great" in cups for Sevilla. He was very average everywhere else and also had one of the worst record against La Liga top 3 or 4 teams, iirc he went more than a decade without a win.
 
Emery also failed at Spartak Moscow. Don't think he lasted a season there
 
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adkb said:
Those saying ETH was a bad manager have it coming. I know this too well. New manager, all rosy picture, new training methods, incredible work ethic etc etc. All this doesn't come to anything in the second season.

I really want to be proven wrong, but I believe the best managers would fail here over a long term. Shame.
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Why do you believe that?
 
I don’t see any top PL side going near him? He’s shown very little suggest he’d be a good appointment. Spurs would be the logical one as they need to win something one day and they’ve already turned him down.
 
romufc said:
Why do you believe that?
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I agree with the post you quoted.

I'll give you my reason. The players and fans.

The cycle.

New manager comes in, everyone is excited, fans and players alike, the fans know it'll take time and say they will give it.

The players all of a sudden find there football ability, Rashford starts scoring for fun again. New players are signed and they start well.

First full season, we finish top 4 and/or win a trophy everyone is happy.

We sign a few more players

2nd season, we've an average start, Rashford has only score 1 in 10. The football isn't as good and some of the signings that done well last season aren't performing to the same level. By Halloween the first murmers by some quarters of our support start questioning is this manager good enough. By March we still haven't had a meaningful patch of good form, Rashford is up to 4 goals in the league. We are now approaching half the fan base losing there patience with the manager.

End of the season, we finish 5-8 and possibly a trophy, a. Sizable amount of fans want the manager out


3rd season, more players signed, the season starts poorly, the manager is sacked before the lights on the tree are turned on.

This sort of situation happened to Jose, Ole and ETH.

Each time the players absolved of blame.

The fans promise to back the manager, but as soon as things look bad they want the manager out and put big pressure on. The next manager comes in and after the initial bounce we get the same results in a never ending cycle.

The players though, get away Scott free again.

The mentality around this club is all sorts of wrong and I hope this time the manager (or headcoach) gets time and patience needed to change things even if it means going through another rough season or two to do it.

We can't undo 11 years of bad stewardship/mentality in 1 or 2 seasons.
 
How can the players get off Scott free when most of them have gone and there’s barely any that have played under multiple managers? A few ridiculous excepts like Lindelof aside.
 
adkb said:
Those saying ETH was a bad manager have it coming. I know this too well. New manager, all rosy picture, new training methods, incredible work ethic etc etc. All this doesn't come to anything in the second season.

I really want to be proven wrong, but I believe the best managers would fail here over a long term. Shame.
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Last season was on ETH, there's no two ways about it. His entire set-up was utterly ridiculous and was a 100% guaranteed failure. It was literally one of the worst managerial performances over an entire season that you or I will ever see. The shape of the team was ridiculous, his in-game management was atrocious (how many times did we see opposition managers make changes that changed the tempo of the match, while ETH either did nothing or just made like-for-like changes), and he threw away an entire season while doing the same thing time after time while seemingly expecting a different result. It's not an exaggeration to say it would have been difficult to do a worse job if he were actively trying to get himself fired.

Inflict such incompetence (there's no other word for it) on all our players for 12 months, and then wonder why they all look bereft of confidence and belief the following season even though ETH finally tweaked the system to something that wasn't quite so insane.
 
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