We should have cut ties with ten hag after that 7-0 loss to Liverpool, that was the lowest moment for me post fergie and I had no confidence he was the man to get us challenging for the title again after that result.
Ten Hag sacked | Ruud appointed Interim Manager
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood), Jamie (@Vault Dweller) and Ed (@That'sHernandez) are here to give their reaction just hours after the news has broke. Where did it all go wrong for ETH? What's next for United? and what were the highlights?
They also react to United's loss away at West Ham, including a breakdown of that ridiculous VAR decision.
Does nobody else have an inexplicable need to be that guy and post VP89's post from after the Burnley game? The timing was tragically brilliant, given he was pretending he wasn't excusing him anymore, only to let the mask slip as he got sacked.
I'm not tagging him as he'll call me a bully, but does make me smile when I think about that post and what's happened now.
I'm not tagging him as he'll call me a bully, but does make me smile when I think about that post and what's happened now.
Carrick is the current leader right?Huge pressure on Ruud now. One game after which he will be remembered as best manager in history of Man Utd or worst manager in history. 100% win rate or 0%.
Honestly aside LVG / Mourinho (who both won silverware but were past their previous best) it looks like a list of average coaches / managers.
Contrast with City's over a similar time period which isn't balanced given Peps time but look at the caliber of who they hired:
Mancini
Kidd
Pellegrini
Guardiola
I think he simply got found out and didn't have the creativity to expand his knowledge.
Success with his system required us to totally dominate the opposition, camping in their half. The route to goal was just way to complicated and demanded lots of numbers to succeed. For a goal, our team had to create wide overloads that involved many movements and connective passes. To achieve this, we'd have to have lots of numbers in the opposition half, and have players who were significantly physically superior to the opposition players to limit counter attacks. This inability to dominate resulted in lots of failed attacks, and without us being physically dominant enough to quickly win defensive duels in the opposition half, easy counter attacks that would either have us concede a chance or give the opposition a chance to pin us back in our half. His system didn't work and he didn't have the skill to reframe it to suit the pace and power of the league.
Any manager should be able to have a tactic with formations and patterns of play. That doesn't mean the tactics work. A good manager should understand what they want on the pitch, and should be able to combine the right shapes, formation and patterns of play to build a successful gameplan/philosophy/tactic. Like food, different conditions...such as the pace and power of the league or the competitiveness of the league or even the players available to you, can change the effectiveness of a given tactic, and might require a manager to change or add elements to make that tactic successful. This is why Pep was able to employ inverted full backs to deal with the threat posed by the directness of the Premier League. This is why Klopp employed a 433 with a hardworking midfield to combat the pace and power of the Premier League or the reason why Ancelotti applied the diamond formation last season, as he didn't have a top quality no.9. Good managers are adaptable and know how to combine formations, patterns of play, shapes and instructions to have their teams create chances whilst remaining solid.
This is why I've always had a problem with the notion that we need xyz player for a manager to be successful. Yes, there may be key positions, but what's constantly happened is that United have accepted a manager needing a whole new team to play any variety of decent football. This is how it was so clear that Ten Hag wasn't a good manager. The first excuse he had was that Maguire was too slow to play in his system. Then Ronaldo wasn't effective enough, which prevented the whole team from playing good football. Then it was that De Gea not being a sweeper keeper hampered us tactically. Then it was that Casemiro had gotten older and no longer had the legs to hold midfield. Then it was that, not having Luke Shaw at left back completely unbalanced our team. Finally, it was that Lisandro Martinez being absent, and not have a left sided centre back stopped us from progressing the ball. Teams with far less talent than us can progress the football, can press, can pass through midfield...yet despite failing when everyone was fit, we still always fell back to these excuses to explain our poor football. Ten Hag may have known how to play attractive dominant football in the Dutch League, but he clearly didn't know how to combine the shapes, patterns, movements and formations to build a solid yet attacking tactic in the Premier League. He didn't have that level of skillset, and his in game management decisions were a weekly display of this inability. He's an example of someone who can follow great recipes, but can't actually cook.
Success with his system required us to totally dominate the opposition, camping in their half. The route to goal was just way to complicated and demanded lots of numbers to succeed. For a goal, our team had to create wide overloads that involved many movements and connective passes. To achieve this, we'd have to have lots of numbers in the opposition half, and have players who were significantly physically superior to the opposition players to limit counter attacks. This inability to dominate resulted in lots of failed attacks, and without us being physically dominant enough to quickly win defensive duels in the opposition half, easy counter attacks that would either have us concede a chance or give the opposition a chance to pin us back in our half. His system didn't work and he didn't have the skill to reframe it to suit the pace and power of the league.
Any manager should be able to have a tactic with formations and patterns of play. That doesn't mean the tactics work. A good manager should understand what they want on the pitch, and should be able to combine the right shapes, formation and patterns of play to build a successful gameplan/philosophy/tactic. Like food, different conditions...such as the pace and power of the league or the competitiveness of the league or even the players available to you, can change the effectiveness of a given tactic, and might require a manager to change or add elements to make that tactic successful. This is why Pep was able to employ inverted full backs to deal with the threat posed by the directness of the Premier League. This is why Klopp employed a 433 with a hardworking midfield to combat the pace and power of the Premier League or the reason why Ancelotti applied the diamond formation last season, as he didn't have a top quality no.9. Good managers are adaptable and know how to combine formations, patterns of play, shapes and instructions to have their teams create chances whilst remaining solid.
This is why I've always had a problem with the notion that we need xyz player for a manager to be successful. Yes, there may be key positions, but what's constantly happened is that United have accepted a manager needing a whole new team to play any variety of decent football. This is how it was so clear that Ten Hag wasn't a good manager. The first excuse he had was that Maguire was too slow to play in his system. Then Ronaldo wasn't effective enough, which prevented the whole team from playing good football. Then it was that De Gea not being a sweeper keeper hampered us tactically. Then it was that Casemiro had gotten older and no longer had the legs to hold midfield. Then it was that, not having Luke Shaw at left back completely unbalanced our team. Finally, it was that Lisandro Martinez being absent, and not have a left sided centre back stopped us from progressing the ball. Teams with far less talent than us can progress the football, can press, can pass through midfield...yet despite failing when everyone was fit, we still always fell back to these excuses to explain our poor football. Ten Hag may have known how to play attractive dominant football in the Dutch League, but he clearly didn't know how to combine the shapes, patterns, movements and formations to build a solid yet attacking tactic in the Premier League. He didn't have that level of skillset, and his in game management decisions were a weekly display of this inability. He's an example of someone who can follow great recipes, but can't actually cook.
We've done about as well as I'd expect with those managers. We've finished 2nd a couple times, top 4 a few times, and won several minor trophies.
The only one of them who truly surprised me is Ten Hag, who I wasn't expecting to be so unbelievably shit.
But yes, the simplest answer is normally the correct one. We haven't had a manager good enough to bring back the success we want. Mourinho was the closest, which is what you'd expect. There doesn't have to be some complex underlying problem that needs unearthing to explain our lack of success
On paper, that list actually reads horribly.
Ragnick, Ole and Moyes had no business in the job.
Ruud Giggs, and Carrick don't count.
LVG had already shown himself to be past it prior to his arrival.
ETH was promising, and the step up simply exposed him. Its not like he was some established successful manager. It would be akin to expecting success from a Norwegian manager in the Portuguese league because he won trophies in Norway. He had a lot to prove coming her and he didn't step up.
Mourinho is the only manager where I question the club, not for the decision to sack him, but for how his tenure here went. I believe he was also on the decline, but I also think he was still very skilled and hadn't fallen off a cliff quite yet. I think LVG left him with a poor squad, and I think that we were so focused on a galactico strategy, that we failed to truly address how poor the overall squad was. Mourinho's teams actually showed a lot of quality, but whenever there were injuries, we didn't have the depth to cope with that disruption. Which is why we always seems run down by the end of the season. With better depth, we could have mounted a more serious challenge in 2018 and gotten top 4 in 2017. Ultimately, his attitude going into the 18/19 season, in addition to the lack of spending that summer and the signing of Lindelof led to a terrible 18/19 from him, but he's the only manager I blame the club for for elements of his failure. Outside of that, I think the only mistake we made with these managers was hiring them in the first place.
With some more reflection, I've come to realise that my perspective on management is probably antiquated, call it the "Fergie effect." Managers nowadays have less room for error, especially United's. The 24 hour media cycle is very demanding on us, trust is eroded at a much quicker rate. Once a manager reaches a certain threshold it's game over, the machine has spoken. You cycle through to the next manager.
What was the post?
I meant the West Ham game, sorry. I think he got banned from the thread for it, it was so ridiculous.
If you’re going to dig @VP89 out then tag them.
It’s bizarre that you care so much, they passionately defended the manager, big whoop.
Nope, we are not buttholes hell bent on getting personal just because @VP89 holds an opinion that differs from ours. But sad to be honest.
Well said. Have the courage to address him directly.
Do you think a call to have others gang up on me makes you any less of a bully? Its an interesting reason to cover not tagging me, outside of the truth which is you lacked the courage to do it.
In any case, I backed the guy more then pre-kick off because we should have been 4 up at half time. I don't find that outrageous but my wording was worthy of the ban as it was written poorly in emotion.
I appreciate the support.
I genuinely feel sorry for posters like him.
Can't people just leave it alone?I remember this from months ago and it's still going on.Dont we all want what's best for the club?This constant digging people out is tiresome, let's get behind the new manager @VP89 already has.
Do you think that Ruud is bummed ?
Probably thought he had a run of games coming and maybe, maybe, the chance to shine.
Or; the board told him that they had a deal done.
Probably thought he had a run of games coming and maybe, maybe, the chance to shine.
Or; the board told him that they had a deal done.
Courage? I knew you'd go into victim mode. I wouldn't have posted it if I was "worried" about you seeing it.
I'm sorry I just find it funny that you plucked up the courage yourself to say what you've been wanting to say, right before he got sacked. And what's even more hilarious is the fact that you called others bullies etc because you didn't have the guts to say what you really wanted to say all along. Until you suddenly felt inspired in a 2-1 defeat to West Ham. Well done.
I would be surprised if the board did not tell him given how quick the news came out. If anything I think he is bummed that ten Hag was fired, the job he signed up for three months ago might be given to someone else during the week.
No problem. I don’t know what post he is referring to because I generally try to steer clear of the match threads during games but there is zero need for posters to be belittled in the way he was trying to, especially when he isn’t willing to make the point to you himself.
Criticise the post, not the poster - that’s what I was always taught.
I think there are numerous posters who have put you in your place today. I didn't need to do much, and I'm thankful for that.
Anyway, get well soon.
Elite Eredivisie manager turns out to be useless PL manager.
I was seriously unimpressed by his first transfer window, especially the short term central midfield partnership, while spending so heavily that he was creating problems for himself in future transfer windows. Amazed the club let him spend as much as they did. Signing so many of his former players and players he knew from the Eredivisie was extraordinary.
Tactically hopeless. His 2nd season was absolutely bizarre given the opening match against Wolves told you everything you needed to know about that particular set-up.
His judgement regarding the PL was awful.
Gave plenty of playing time to Garnacho and Mainoo so that's something that will hopefully benefit the club in the coming years.
Personally, I've never placed much importance on the domestic Cup competitions. The elite teams rarely field strong line-ups until very late in the competition.
I was seriously unimpressed by his first transfer window, especially the short term central midfield partnership, while spending so heavily that he was creating problems for himself in future transfer windows. Amazed the club let him spend as much as they did. Signing so many of his former players and players he knew from the Eredivisie was extraordinary.
Tactically hopeless. His 2nd season was absolutely bizarre given the opening match against Wolves told you everything you needed to know about that particular set-up.
His judgement regarding the PL was awful.
Gave plenty of playing time to Garnacho and Mainoo so that's something that will hopefully benefit the club in the coming years.
Personally, I've never placed much importance on the domestic Cup competitions. The elite teams rarely field strong line-ups until very late in the competition.
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