Ten Hag sacked | Ruud appointed Interim Manager

Status
Not open for further replies.
Antagonising other posters
Does nobody else have an inexplicable need to be that guy and post VP89's post from after the Burnley game? The timing was tragically brilliant, given he was pretending he wasn't excusing him anymore, only to let the mask slip as he got sacked.

I'm not tagging him as he'll call me a bully, but does make me smile when I think about that post and what's happened now.
 
That’s really my point. A manager brought in and can’t get results off or on the pitch.

How else do we explain this? Just a list of awful managers?

Moyes
Giggs
van Gaal
Mourinho
Solskjær
Carrick
Rangnick
ten Hag
Nistelrooy

Honestly aside LVG / Mourinho (who both won silverware but were past their previous best) it looks like a list of average coaches / managers.

Contrast with City's over a similar time period which isn't balanced given Peps time but look at the caliber of who they hired:

Mancini
Kidd
Pellegrini
Guardiola
 
That’s really my point. A manager brought in and can’t get results off or on the pitch.

How else do we explain this? Just a list of awful managers?

Moyes
Giggs
van Gaal
Mourinho
Solskjær

Carrick
Rangnick
ten Hag

Nistelrooy

Awful? No.

Average and/or past their best? Yes.
 
I think he simply got found out and didn't have the creativity to expand his knowledge.

Success with his system required us to totally dominate the opposition, camping in their half. The route to goal was just way to complicated and demanded lots of numbers to succeed. For a goal, our team had to create wide overloads that involved many movements and connective passes. To achieve this, we'd have to have lots of numbers in the opposition half, and have players who were significantly physically superior to the opposition players to limit counter attacks. This inability to dominate resulted in lots of failed attacks, and without us being physically dominant enough to quickly win defensive duels in the opposition half, easy counter attacks that would either have us concede a chance or give the opposition a chance to pin us back in our half. His system didn't work and he didn't have the skill to reframe it to suit the pace and power of the league.

Any manager should be able to have a tactic with formations and patterns of play. That doesn't mean the tactics work. A good manager should understand what they want on the pitch, and should be able to combine the right shapes, formation and patterns of play to build a successful gameplan/philosophy/tactic. Like food, different conditions...such as the pace and power of the league or the competitiveness of the league or even the players available to you, can change the effectiveness of a given tactic, and might require a manager to change or add elements to make that tactic successful. This is why Pep was able to employ inverted full backs to deal with the threat posed by the directness of the Premier League. This is why Klopp employed a 433 with a hardworking midfield to combat the pace and power of the Premier League or the reason why Ancelotti applied the diamond formation last season, as he didn't have a top quality no.9. Good managers are adaptable and know how to combine formations, patterns of play, shapes and instructions to have their teams create chances whilst remaining solid.

This is why I've always had a problem with the notion that we need xyz player for a manager to be successful. Yes, there may be key positions, but what's constantly happened is that United have accepted a manager needing a whole new team to play any variety of decent football. This is how it was so clear that Ten Hag wasn't a good manager. The first excuse he had was that Maguire was too slow to play in his system. Then Ronaldo wasn't effective enough, which prevented the whole team from playing good football. Then it was that De Gea not being a sweeper keeper hampered us tactically. Then it was that Casemiro had gotten older and no longer had the legs to hold midfield. Then it was that, not having Luke Shaw at left back completely unbalanced our team. Finally, it was that Lisandro Martinez being absent, and not have a left sided centre back stopped us from progressing the ball. Teams with far less talent than us can progress the football, can press, can pass through midfield...yet despite failing when everyone was fit, we still always fell back to these excuses to explain our poor football. Ten Hag may have known how to play attractive dominant football in the Dutch League, but he clearly didn't know how to combine the shapes, patterns, movements and formations to build a solid yet attacking tactic in the Premier League. He didn't have that level of skillset, and his in game management decisions were a weekly display of this inability. He's an example of someone who can follow great recipes, but can't actually cook.
 
That’s really my point. A manager brought in and can’t get results off or on the pitch.

How else do we explain this? Just a list of awful managers?

Moyes
Giggs
van Gaal
Mourinho
Solskjær
Carrick
Rangnick
ten Hag
Nistelrooy
We've done about as well as I'd expect with those managers. We've finished 2nd a couple times, top 4 a few times, and won several minor trophies.

The only one of them who truly surprised me is Ten Hag, who I wasn't expecting to be so unbelievably shit.

But yes, the simplest answer is normally the correct one. We haven't had a manager good enough to bring back the success we want. Mourinho was the closest, which is what you'd expect. There doesn't have to be some complex underlying problem that needs unearthing to explain our lack of success
 
Awful? No.

Average and/or past their best? Yes.
On paper, that list actually reads horribly.

Ragnick, Ole and Moyes had no business in the job.

Ruud Giggs, and Carrick don't count.

LVG had already shown himself to be past it prior to his arrival.

ETH was promising, and the step up simply exposed him. Its not like he was some established successful manager. It would be akin to expecting success from a Norwegian manager in the Portuguese league because he won trophies in Norway. He had a lot to prove coming her and he didn't step up.

Mourinho is the only manager where I question the club, not for the decision to sack him, but for how his tenure here went. I believe he was also on the decline, but I also think he was still very skilled and hadn't fallen off a cliff quite yet. I think LVG left him with a poor squad, and I think that we were so focused on a galactico strategy, that we failed to truly address how poor the overall squad was. Mourinho's teams actually showed a lot of quality, but whenever there were injuries, we didn't have the depth to cope with that disruption. Which is why we always seems run down by the end of the season. With better depth, we could have mounted a more serious challenge in 2018 and gotten top 4 in 2017. Ultimately, his attitude going into the 18/19 season, in addition to the lack of spending that summer and the signing of Lindelof led to a terrible 18/19 from him, but he's the only manager I blame the club for for elements of his failure. Outside of that, I think the only mistake we made with these managers was hiring them in the first place.
 
I disagree with the last sentence a lot

There are, and have been over these 11 years, managers who I believe would have taken us to another level.

Unfortunately our vacancies always seem to come when there’s nobody obvious. Mourinho kind of was, but even then everyone knew 2-3 years was the absolute maximum you’d get, and he’d just left Chelsea 1 point above relegation.

Oh I definitely think it can be turned around in two seasons.

But it requires good, consistent, decision making and a bit of luck(less injuries).

It's not some insurmountable task. The failings and baffling decisons of the previous managers have just made it seem that way.
With some more reflection, I've come to realise that my perspective on management is probably antiquated, call it the "Fergie effect." Managers nowadays have less room for error, especially United's. The 24 hour media cycle is very demanding on us, trust is eroded at a much quicker rate. Once a manager reaches a certain threshold it's game over, the machine has spoken. You cycle through to the next manager.
 
Does nobody else have an inexplicable need to be that guy and post VP89's post from after the Burnley game? The timing was tragically brilliant, given he was pretending he wasn't excusing him anymore, only to let the mask slip as he got sacked.

I'm not tagging him as he'll call me a bully, but does make me smile when I think about that post and what's happened now.

What was the post?
 
I meant the West Ham game, sorry. I think he got banned from the thread for it, it was so ridiculous.
If you’re going to dig @VP89 out then tag them.

It’s bizarre that you care so much, they passionately defended the manager, big whoop.
 
Does nobody else have an inexplicable need to be that guy and post VP89's post from after the Burnley game? The timing was tragically brilliant, given he was pretending he wasn't excusing him anymore, only to let the mask slip as he got sacked.

I'm not tagging him as he'll call me a bully, but does make me smile when I think about that post and what's happened now.
Do you think a call to have others gang up on me makes you any less of a bully? Its an interesting reason to cover not tagging me, outside of the truth which is you lacked the courage to do it.

In any case, I backed the guy more then pre-kick off because we should have been 4 up at half time. I don't find that outrageous but my wording was worthy of the ban as it was written poorly in emotion.
Nope, we are not buttholes hell bent on getting personal just because @VP89 holds an opinion that differs from ours. But sad to be honest.

If you’re going to dig @VP89 out then tag them.

It’s bizarre that you care so much, they passionately defended the manager, big whoop.
Well said. Have the courage to address him directly.
I appreciate the support.

I genuinely feel sorry for posters like him.
 
Does nobody else have an inexplicable need to be that guy and post VP89's post from after the Burnley game? The timing was tragically brilliant, given he was pretending he wasn't excusing him anymore, only to let the mask slip as he got sacked.

I'm not tagging him as he'll call me a bully, but does make me smile when I think about that post and what's happened now.
Can't people just leave it alone?I remember this from months ago and it's still going on.Dont we all want what's best for the club?This constant digging people out is tiresome, let's get behind the new manager @VP89 already has.
 
Do you think that Ruud is bummed ?

Probably thought he had a run of games coming and maybe, maybe, the chance to shine.

Or; the board told him that they had a deal done.
 
Do you think a call to have others gang up on me makes you any less of a bully? Its an interesting reason to cover not tagging me, outside of the truth which is you lacked the courage to do it.

In any case, I backed the guy more then pre-kick off because we should have been 4 up at half time. I don't find that outrageous but my wording was worthy of the ban as it was written poorly in emotion.




I appreciate the support.

I genuinely feel sorry for posters like him.

Courage? I knew you'd go into victim mode. I wouldn't have posted it if I was "worried" about you seeing it.

I'm sorry I just find it funny that you plucked up the courage yourself to say what you've been wanting to say, right before he got sacked. And what's even more hilarious is the fact that you called others bullies etc because you didn't have the guts to say what you really wanted to say all along. Until you suddenly felt inspired in a 2-1 defeat to West Ham. Well done.
 
Do you think that Ruud is bummed ?

Probably thought he had a run of games coming and maybe, maybe, the chance to shine.

Or; the board told him that they had a deal done.
I would be surprised if the board did not tell him given how quick the news came out. If anything I think he is bummed that ten Hag was fired, the job he signed up for three months ago might be given to someone else during the week.
 
I appreciate the support.

I genuinely feel sorry for posters like him.
No problem. I don’t know what post he is referring to because I generally try to steer clear of the match threads during games but there is zero need for posters to be belittled in the way he was trying to, especially when he isn’t willing to make the point to you himself.
Criticise the post, not the poster - that’s what I was always taught.
 
Courage? I knew you'd go into victim mode. I wouldn't have posted it if I was "worried" about you seeing it.

I'm sorry I just find it funny that you plucked up the courage yourself to say what you've been wanting to say, right before he got sacked. And what's even more hilarious is the fact that you called others bullies etc because you didn't have the guts to say what you really wanted to say all along. Until you suddenly felt inspired in a 2-1 defeat to West Ham. Well done.
I think there are numerous posters who have put you in your place today. I didn't need to do much, and I'm thankful for that.
Anyway, get well soon.
 
Elite Eredivisie manager turns out to be useless PL manager.

I was seriously unimpressed by his first transfer window, especially the short term central midfield partnership, while spending so heavily that he was creating problems for himself in future transfer windows. Amazed the club let him spend as much as they did. Signing so many of his former players and players he knew from the Eredivisie was extraordinary.

Tactically hopeless. His 2nd season was absolutely bizarre given the opening match against Wolves told you everything you needed to know about that particular set-up.

His judgement regarding the PL was awful.

Gave plenty of playing time to Garnacho and Mainoo so that's something that will hopefully benefit the club in the coming years.

Personally, I've never placed much importance on the domestic Cup competitions. The elite teams rarely field strong line-ups until very late in the competition.
 
Last edited:
Continued antagonising of poster
I think there are numerous posters who have put you in your place today. I didn't need to do much, and I'm thankful for that.
Anyway, get well soon.

Put me in my place? :lol: "please stop bullying me guys"...

I'm over the moon, and the comical timing of another one of your posts made it all the more sweeter. Thank you for that. At least now I can just laugh at it instead of having to call it out for the bollocks it was.
 
No problem. I don’t know what post he is referring to because I generally try to steer clear of the match threads during games but there is zero need for posters to be belittled in the way he was trying to, especially when he isn’t willing to make the point to you himself.
Criticise the post, not the poster - that’s what I was always taught.

I've tagged him directly many times in the past but got a warning because he accused everybody of bullying him. I decided to leave it to chance as to whether he saw it or not for his own sake, if i wanted to go after him then I'd have tagged him. Although now I think about it, i believe he did get temporarily banned from the thread for that post, so it is fair game.

If he wants to keep going then I'll ensure I respond directly to him from now on.
 
I think he simply got found out and didn't have the creativity to expand his knowledge.

Success with his system required us to totally dominate the opposition, camping in their half. The route to goal was just way to complicated and demanded lots of numbers to succeed. For a goal, our team had to create wide overloads that involved many movements and connective passes. To achieve this, we'd have to have lots of numbers in the opposition half, and have players who were significantly physically superior to the opposition players to limit counter attacks. This inability to dominate resulted in lots of failed attacks, and without us being physically dominant enough to quickly win defensive duels in the opposition half, easy counter attacks that would either have us concede a chance or give the opposition a chance to pin us back in our half. His system didn't work and he didn't have the skill to reframe it to suit the pace and power of the league.

Any manager should be able to have a tactic with formations and patterns of play. That doesn't mean the tactics work. A good manager should understand what they want on the pitch, and should be able to combine the right shapes, formation and patterns of play to build a successful gameplan/philosophy/tactic. Like food, different conditions...such as the pace and power of the league or the competitiveness of the league or even the players available to you, can change the effectiveness of a given tactic, and might require a manager to change or add elements to make that tactic successful. This is why Pep was able to employ inverted full backs to deal with the threat posed by the directness of the Premier League. This is why Klopp employed a 433 with a hardworking midfield to combat the pace and power of the Premier League or the reason why Ancelotti applied the diamond formation last season, as he didn't have a top quality no.9. Good managers are adaptable and know how to combine formations, patterns of play, shapes and instructions to have their teams create chances whilst remaining solid.

This is why I've always had a problem with the notion that we need xyz player for a manager to be successful. Yes, there may be key positions, but what's constantly happened is that United have accepted a manager needing a whole new team to play any variety of decent football. This is how it was so clear that Ten Hag wasn't a good manager. The first excuse he had was that Maguire was too slow to play in his system. Then Ronaldo wasn't effective enough, which prevented the whole team from playing good football. Then it was that De Gea not being a sweeper keeper hampered us tactically. Then it was that Casemiro had gotten older and no longer had the legs to hold midfield. Then it was that, not having Luke Shaw at left back completely unbalanced our team. Finally, it was that Lisandro Martinez being absent, and not have a left sided centre back stopped us from progressing the ball. Teams with far less talent than us can progress the football, can press, can pass through midfield...yet despite failing when everyone was fit, we still always fell back to these excuses to explain our poor football. Ten Hag may have known how to play attractive dominant football in the Dutch League, but he clearly didn't know how to combine the shapes, patterns, movements and formations to build a solid yet attacking tactic in the Premier League. He didn't have that level of skillset, and his in game management decisions were a weekly display of this inability. He's an example of someone who can follow great recipes, but can't actually cook.

Very good post.
 
Can't people just leave it alone?I remember this from months ago and it's still going on.Dont we all want what's best for the club?This constant digging people out is tiresome, let's get behind the new manager @VP89 already has.

I do want what's best for the club, that's why I'm pissed off at people like him. He was more concerned about being right then what is best for the club. The post I'm referring to was a prefect example.

I just hope that these people have learnt from this and never get so entrenched again. Obviously one man alone isn't a problem, but when half the fecking fanbase is in some deluded alternative reality, it's a problem. Now they'll talk about hope exciting it all is after telling us there's no standout candidate for months on end. Go figure.
 
I do want what's best for the club, that's why I'm pissed off at people like him. He was more concerned about being right then what is best for the club. The post I'm referring to was a prefect example.

I just hope that these people have learnt from this and never get so entrenched again. Obviously one man alone isn't a problem, but when half the fecking fanbase is in some deluded alternative reality, it's a problem. Now they'll talk about hope exciting it all is after telling us there's no standout candidate for months on end. Go figure.

He's already said he'll back the new manager for longer than most, so I doubt it. Hopefully he'll be an outstanding success, but as you say the club always comes first.
 
He didn't want to sell McTominay. The board decided to sell him as he was one of the few we could get good money for, was getting to the age where that wouldn't be true for much longer, and is simply quite limited as a footballer.

Could say the same about Rashford these days. Wonder why INEOS didn't consider selling him?
 
Could say the same about Rashford these days. Wonder why INEOS didn't consider selling him?
My 2 cents is that his higher price tag and salary scare off buyers.

It is easier to buy a 30M player at 70k per week than a 60M player at 300k per week
 
IMO, he realised that he would never be good enough to catch up to City so, he thought the best way to keep the fans/club happy was by winning the domestic cups.

At the same time, his delusion/arrogance/naivety didn't pick up on the fact that progress in the league was far more important and valuable to the fans/club.
 
Put me in my place? :lol: "please stop bullying me guys"...

I'm over the moon, and the comical timing of another one of your posts made it all the more sweeter. Thank you for that. At least now I can just laugh at it instead of having to call it out for the bollocks it was.
You've just tried to get people to gang up again, and failed. You think there's a problem with sections of the fanbase passionately defending a manager, and you clearly have a issue letting go.

You say you had a warning for the post where I called out bullying? Id advise you to reflect on what you said, and what others have posted to you in response to your new attack in the past 24 hours.

Next time try not starting some movement against someone just because they backed a coach.

I won't try and bully you back, move on.
 
We should have cut ties with ten hag after that 7-0 loss to Liverpool, that was the lowest moment for me post fergie and I had no confidence he was the man to get us challenging for the title again after that result.

In Hindsight, yes he should have gone. The delusion of being a United fan got the better of the football brain. We had won the league cup and it came after a good period for us.

However; when a manager loses 7-0 to the biggest rival, it shows something, either he has not grasped how big the rivalry is or he is not good enough.

Looking back, even losing to Brentford should have told us enough that he wont get us anywhere. Since then, look at the managers who taken over, Maresca, Slot, Unai, Glasner, Ange have all started well with their respective clubs and none have been embarrassed in their first season.

Unfortunately, the writing was on the cards for Ten Hag from early on.
 
He's already said he'll back the new manager for longer than most, so I doubt it. Hopefully he'll be an outstanding success, but as you say the club always comes first.
So he learned absolutely nothing?

There are so many Man Utd fans that don't even support the club, just whoever the incumbent manager is. Incredible.

I'd have more time for the guy who openly supports Pochettino, rather than pretending he's a fan of any club. Shouldn't this @VP89 just support Erik Ten Hag instead of Man Utd?
 
So he learned absolutely nothing?

There are so many Man Utd fans that don't even support the club, just whoever the incumbent manager is. Incredible.

I'd have more time for the guy who openly supports Pochettino, rather than pretending he's a fan of any club. Shouldn't this @VP89 just support Erik Ten Hag instead of Man Utd?
I tend to give our managers more time than most. Why is that such a big problem, and how is that exclusive to Ten Hag? Why are you so bothered about it? Just move on.
 
He's already said he'll back the new manager for longer than most, so I doubt it. Hopefully he'll be an outstanding success, but as you say the club always comes first.

Different people have different breaking points as fans. Some were out from season 1, some at some stage of season 2 and some in season 3.

I will try back the manager as long as possible until it becomes untenable, which is why I didnt want certain managers.

Tuchel, Xavi etcc... would get to the same stage earlier.

I must admit I am unsure of Amorin because of the similarities with Ten Hag, next best coach, won in their respective leagues etc.. however no manager has been able to instill their style.

The differences which I have read about, could mean something different? He is better at man management and will keep to his principles, something none of our managers did.
 
So he learned absolutely nothing?

There are so many Man Utd fans that don't even support the club, just whoever the incumbent manager is. Incredible.

I'd have more time for the guy who openly supports Pochettino, rather than pretending he's a fan of any club. Shouldn't this @VP89 just support Erik Ten Hag instead of Man Utd?

Pretty much. I'll never understand the blind backing of a manager, it's like Gary Neville banging on about not believing in sacking managers. Imagine this in any other industry. @pocco is right for calling this out.

Being entrenched in these views is probably due to growing up with SAF but SAF was a different breed to the managers nowadays, none of them will ever come close to him
 
Status
Not open for further replies.