Fair enough.
Suarez
- Thread starter KM
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Fair enough.
Cantona proved on more than one occasion he was a thug mate. Why not accept it, & we can all move on.
& btw, this is quite interesting. It seems United's punishment of Cantona was actually instigated by the sneaky feckers at the FA. So it seems your club are not the moral leaders most of you think they are.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/apr/26/alex-ferguson-luis-suarez-eric-cantona
That almost 20 years ago. 30 years ago, Liverpool fans chanting racist remarks; but that's it, it was 30 years ago. Different era, different standard.
1997 Schmeichel was racially abusing Ian Wright.
I really hope he buggers off, anywhere. This shite is no good for his form with crucial WCQs coming up, we are hanging by a thread.
Sort it out Brendon and Arso. Make it happen.
Sort it out Brendon and Arso. Make it happen.
Been in work all day, so rather than answer the replies to my postings individually, I thought I'd cover the whole lot in a 'war & peace' type essay.
Even taking that into account there's still a huge difference in the conduct of United with Cantona and Liverpool with Suarez. The last thing I would have expected of Liverpool was come out and use their Official website to falsely accuse Evra of lying about racism in the past. That was despicable.
I don't think we are the moral leaders at all. Giggs, Rooney, Keane, Cantona etc.. are all cnuts and I can accept that but Suarez trumps them all in the department.
He was cleared by the FA.
Did I say anything differently ?
How has all this club behaviour stuff been brought up? What's the relevance to a transfer story? I'm not reading the last 20+ pages as it sounds like variations on a theme.
Anything concrete about him leaving or not? I want him playing, he may as well go to Getafe for all I care.
You didnt saying Storey was talking rubbish either. Anyway if you want to look at racism Liverpool fc has a huge history of it.
Scousers in further deflection shocker.
Let's not worry about the racist thug playing today and all the lies and damage he's done to your club, let's do what you do best and worry about the past huh?
Dignity must mean something else to Liverpool FC and it's supporting sheep.
Let's not worry about the racist thug playing today and all the lies and damage he's done to your club, let's do what you do best and worry about the past huh?
Dignity must mean something else to Liverpool FC and it's supporting sheep.
We owned them too.
Better than making a public display of yourselves. You are getting what you deserve and it's hilarious. You lot are a laughing stock and it's even funnier every year
Better than making a public display of yourselves. You are getting what you deserve and it's hilarious. You lot are a laughing stock and it's even funnier every year
Brilliant.
In all seriousness I like that you lot seem to be making a stand. I don't think it'll last at all, don't get me wrong you lot will fold and love him again, but at least the prick is being publicly told.
Better late than never I guess. It's just a shame (and I mean that sincerely) what your club has become for now. For the sake of our rivalry I hope it gets better for you lot!
Utd still had the choice. There was nothing to force us not to wait on the FA's ruling.
Some people will always convince themselves that their club is morally upright in each and every situation. We all have them.
I agree with your views on the BSM(what do they actually want?) but it wasn't just them booing him/board last year.
Maybe, but I reckon it's pretty deluded to think what Suarez has done is much worse than Cantona. They've both been complete idiots, but trying to find reasons for which what Cantona did could be justified or wasn't quite as bad is just ridiculous. Not accusing you, I'm talking generally.
It's really rather cruel to let Liverpool fans come on this site and make fools of themselves.
Amusing, and cruel.
Amusing, and cruel.
Who's trying to find excuses? If you want to, a few posts back I gave a pretty fair account of my thoughts on it.
What I still don't get is why you are so interested? It's like you are already preparing an argument on the very slim chance you actually get this scumbag
Who's trying to find excuses? If you want to, a few posts back I gave a pretty fair account of my thoughts on it.
What I still don't get is why you are so interested? It's like you are already preparing an argument on the very slim chance you actually get this scumbag
Your thoughts are great. No problem with your thoughts.
I just find it frustrating sometimes when you're talking about football with someone who will not accept that in any situation their club made an error of judgement. I was talking to a Liverpool fan the other day who said in no uncertain terms that they made a massive cock-up with the Suarez situation and it was so refreshing because I literally don't think I've ever heard another one admit it.
The Arsenal should envision how Suarez will leave after a couple of trophy less season. It will get ugly so why be interested in such a poisoned transfer ?
He's doing a fair job of showing them right now.
Arsenal should offer 40m & £1 and Bendtner, everyone's happy. Liverpool get their replacement, Arsenal get rid of Bendtner and Suarez gets CL football, and the Suarez circus can continue on a wider stage
feck, sorry for the novel. I have no idea why it got so long, I can only state inebriation as a sort of defence. Anyway, there's paragraphs, at least - so it ain't a pure madman's rant. And the last couple of paragraphs are fairly decent, actually. And he did ask for it, you know.
Now, I'm gonna drink some more. Good night, motherfeckers.
Right, let’s not waste any time or space, it'll be long enough as it is. I won’t go into the respective qualities of Cantona and Suarez as players, that’s really neither here nor there. I would, personally, say that Suarez is a very good player, but ultimately run-of-the-mill as far as very good players go, whereas Eric Cantona was a great player, a player who had something beyond the run-of-the-mill, but this does not matter: I’m sure a Liverpool fan isn’t too keen on hearing Cantona praised, so I won’t say another word about footballing qualities.
The point here is this: There has never, in my time as a football supporter, been another player like Luis Suarez. Yes, that’s right. There has never been a similar example of a club backing (and I won’t bother you with the evidence of how this took place, you must have heard it a million times before) a player charged with, and then found guilty of, such offences.
That’s a bit of side-tracking, by the way. It doesn’t really matter (not to me, in this particular context, though it should matter to all decent Liverpool fans) how the club (and what appeared to me an alarming percentage of its fans) backed the player who was found guilty of racially abusing another PL professional.
What matters, to us, here, is primarily the nature of the offences - and then the response of the respective clubs. Cantona kicked a fan in the chest, after said fan had taunted him using language which has been described as both vile and explicitly xenophobic. The fan in question hurled abuse at Cantona which was aimed both at his nationality and his biological ortus (his mum, you know).
United responded, while being understanding (nobody should try to disguise this fact) of the player’s actions, given the particular circumstances, by banning Cantona from action for the rest of the season, a season which ended with Blackburn winning the league - upon which the football authorities then added their own ban, meaning that Cantona was out for eight months all in all.
Luiz Suares was found guilty of racially abusing an opposition player during the course of a match. I’m sure it can be presented in other terms, but that is the long and short of what he was found guilty of. His club’s response to the verdict was to, finally, accept it. I will now leave out all responses and PR stunts the club was responsible for before the verdict was - finally - accepted. As I will leave out any ill-timed remarks from people who cannot be seen as anything but representatives of the club after the verdict had been pronounced. I will also leave out the attempts of representatives of the club to cast doubt on the man the verdict proclaimed had been on the receiving end of the blatantly racist remarks Luis Suarez made during that infamous match.
So, to sum it up. United’s Cantona kicked an opposition supporter in the chest, after said supporter, who was, incidentally, very friendly to the cause of the BNP, had pointed out that Cantona’s mother was French, and a whore at that - United’s Cantona, then, was banned, first by Manchester United, then by the football authorities, to an eight month ban which effectively gained Blackburn Rovers their only league title in the modern era (alright, one player doesn’t win the league, and maybe Rovers would’ve won it regardless, that isn’t the point either). The point is that United banned Cantona. For the rest of the season. No questions asked. Questions were asked later, apparently, when the authorities decided to extend the ban well into the next season, no point in denying that. But that is what United’s protestations amounted to.
Liverpool never, not once, felt the need to issue an apology to United or, more importantly, the player in question for Suarez’ comments. When the player’s eight match ban was made official, the club reacted by accusing the Football Association of having been prejudiced against Luis Suarez, suggesting that the verdict had been decided before the committee had even heard the evidence. The club, in the same initial response to the findings, also demanded that Patrice Evra (the object of Suarez’ racist remarks) be charged for giving false testimony (I don’t know if this is the proper, legal way of determining it, nor do I know if Liverpool themselves were familiar with the proper terms when they accused Evra of not being a “credible witness”, ignorantly (I hope) and irrelevantly citing statements made in another case, long since proved to have no bearing on the question at hand). At length Liverpool accepted the ban, eight matches, for the transgression in question: Using “abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour contrary to FA rules, including a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra”.
There you are. I think that’s fairly summed up, perhaps not as objectively as you’d expect it summed up by a QC, but nevertheless. There or thereabouts, as they say.
Your point seems to be that both Cantona and Suarez are wild ones, players who lose control of themselves when they give it all to win. I disagree. Suarez is, at best, that kind of player. It’s hard to explain why a player who has lost control of himself finds it necessary to point out to his opponent on the pitch that he - Suarez - isn’t in the habit of explaining himself to black people. But there you go. His insane determination drives him to blatantly racist remarks, just as it drives him to feigning hand balls, diving and sinking his teeth into other players’ arms. Perhaps he’s just extremely driven, losing control of his faculties as a means to win, hard to tell.
Cantona, on the other hand, showed clear signs of being a player who was prone to lose control: Not as a means to win, though - there’s little evidence of that. He just lost it, when someone kicked him the wrong way, charged into him the wrong way, or insulted his mother in the wrong way. Hard to tell, with him too. But there is zero evidence that his “bad boy” antics ever resulted in him racially abusing another player. Nor biting another player. But let’s leave that out - even though it happened twice, making Luis Suarez something of a special case in the annals of European football history at the highest level.
It’s the ugly racism bit that people won’t leave alone, you see. It’s the fact that people just won’t take that as just another instance of his gamesmanship, or whatever you want to call it, which makes him such a stain. It’s leaving the realm of the more or less decent, given the circumstances, for the realm of what simply ain’t decent no matter how tinted your specs are - which singles out Luis Suarez.
He is a fecking cnut - a fecking racist cnut, at that - in most neutral peoples’ eyes. That’s why so many make a big deal out of this potential Arsenal transfer too: Not because he’s a “wild man”, a player it takes a certain kind of manager (Wenger) to “control”. That’s bollocks. It’s because he’s a bloody despicable, racist cnut in so many eyes. And he hasn’t lifted a finger to redeem himself either.
Disclaimer: When I say “so many eyes” I mean on here, at the Caf. I think that’s true. For the rest of the Internet wilderness, I don’t know, nor for the match going fans of either clubs.
Now, I'm gonna drink some more. Good night, motherfeckers.
Right, let’s not waste any time or space, it'll be long enough as it is. I won’t go into the respective qualities of Cantona and Suarez as players, that’s really neither here nor there. I would, personally, say that Suarez is a very good player, but ultimately run-of-the-mill as far as very good players go, whereas Eric Cantona was a great player, a player who had something beyond the run-of-the-mill, but this does not matter: I’m sure a Liverpool fan isn’t too keen on hearing Cantona praised, so I won’t say another word about footballing qualities.
The point here is this: There has never, in my time as a football supporter, been another player like Luis Suarez. Yes, that’s right. There has never been a similar example of a club backing (and I won’t bother you with the evidence of how this took place, you must have heard it a million times before) a player charged with, and then found guilty of, such offences.
That’s a bit of side-tracking, by the way. It doesn’t really matter (not to me, in this particular context, though it should matter to all decent Liverpool fans) how the club (and what appeared to me an alarming percentage of its fans) backed the player who was found guilty of racially abusing another PL professional.
What matters, to us, here, is primarily the nature of the offences - and then the response of the respective clubs. Cantona kicked a fan in the chest, after said fan had taunted him using language which has been described as both vile and explicitly xenophobic. The fan in question hurled abuse at Cantona which was aimed both at his nationality and his biological ortus (his mum, you know).
United responded, while being understanding (nobody should try to disguise this fact) of the player’s actions, given the particular circumstances, by banning Cantona from action for the rest of the season, a season which ended with Blackburn winning the league - upon which the football authorities then added their own ban, meaning that Cantona was out for eight months all in all.
Luiz Suares was found guilty of racially abusing an opposition player during the course of a match. I’m sure it can be presented in other terms, but that is the long and short of what he was found guilty of. His club’s response to the verdict was to, finally, accept it. I will now leave out all responses and PR stunts the club was responsible for before the verdict was - finally - accepted. As I will leave out any ill-timed remarks from people who cannot be seen as anything but representatives of the club after the verdict had been pronounced. I will also leave out the attempts of representatives of the club to cast doubt on the man the verdict proclaimed had been on the receiving end of the blatantly racist remarks Luis Suarez made during that infamous match.
So, to sum it up. United’s Cantona kicked an opposition supporter in the chest, after said supporter, who was, incidentally, very friendly to the cause of the BNP, had pointed out that Cantona’s mother was French, and a whore at that - United’s Cantona, then, was banned, first by Manchester United, then by the football authorities, to an eight month ban which effectively gained Blackburn Rovers their only league title in the modern era (alright, one player doesn’t win the league, and maybe Rovers would’ve won it regardless, that isn’t the point either). The point is that United banned Cantona. For the rest of the season. No questions asked. Questions were asked later, apparently, when the authorities decided to extend the ban well into the next season, no point in denying that. But that is what United’s protestations amounted to.
Liverpool never, not once, felt the need to issue an apology to United or, more importantly, the player in question for Suarez’ comments. When the player’s eight match ban was made official, the club reacted by accusing the Football Association of having been prejudiced against Luis Suarez, suggesting that the verdict had been decided before the committee had even heard the evidence. The club, in the same initial response to the findings, also demanded that Patrice Evra (the object of Suarez’ racist remarks) be charged for giving false testimony (I don’t know if this is the proper, legal way of determining it, nor do I know if Liverpool themselves were familiar with the proper terms when they accused Evra of not being a “credible witness”, ignorantly (I hope) and irrelevantly citing statements made in another case, long since proved to have no bearing on the question at hand). At length Liverpool accepted the ban, eight matches, for the transgression in question: Using “abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour contrary to FA rules, including a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra”.
There you are. I think that’s fairly summed up, perhaps not as objectively as you’d expect it summed up by a QC, but nevertheless. There or thereabouts, as they say.
Your point seems to be that both Cantona and Suarez are wild ones, players who lose control of themselves when they give it all to win. I disagree. Suarez is, at best, that kind of player. It’s hard to explain why a player who has lost control of himself finds it necessary to point out to his opponent on the pitch that he - Suarez - isn’t in the habit of explaining himself to black people. But there you go. His insane determination drives him to blatantly racist remarks, just as it drives him to feigning hand balls, diving and sinking his teeth into other players’ arms. Perhaps he’s just extremely driven, losing control of his faculties as a means to win, hard to tell.
Cantona, on the other hand, showed clear signs of being a player who was prone to lose control: Not as a means to win, though - there’s little evidence of that. He just lost it, when someone kicked him the wrong way, charged into him the wrong way, or insulted his mother in the wrong way. Hard to tell, with him too. But there is zero evidence that his “bad boy” antics ever resulted in him racially abusing another player. Nor biting another player. But let’s leave that out - even though it happened twice, making Luis Suarez something of a special case in the annals of European football history at the highest level.
It’s the ugly racism bit that people won’t leave alone, you see. It’s the fact that people just won’t take that as just another instance of his gamesmanship, or whatever you want to call it, which makes him such a stain. It’s leaving the realm of the more or less decent, given the circumstances, for the realm of what simply ain’t decent no matter how tinted your specs are - which singles out Luis Suarez.
He is a fecking cnut - a fecking racist cnut, at that - in most neutral peoples’ eyes. That’s why so many make a big deal out of this potential Arsenal transfer too: Not because he’s a “wild man”, a player it takes a certain kind of manager (Wenger) to “control”. That’s bollocks. It’s because he’s a bloody despicable, racist cnut in so many eyes. And he hasn’t lifted a finger to redeem himself either.
Disclaimer: When I say “so many eyes” I mean on here, at the Caf. I think that’s true. For the rest of the Internet wilderness, I don’t know, nor for the match going fans of either clubs.
How long were you typing?
We definitely agree on this. It's been my most prominent point in this thread.
Only now, after all he has done, are they seeing the truth. And the reason? It isn't the racial abuse, it's not the physical abuse either. No it's simply because he wants to move up a level. How dare anyone want to leave the mighty Liverpool.
That's the delusion right there. They can smokescreen all they want, but at the end of the day they are just self pitying as per usual. I also can't see why you lot want him either. I mean I get it, he is a good footballer and you need a striker like him. But if you are honest with yourself, you know this is going to happen to you lot too right? There are no ifs and buts about it.
Oh and there's no way in hell I'm reading that post Chester!
Don't ask, man. I can barely lift me digits to punch out this.
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