Steven Gerrard

Globule said:
What's the deal with Liverpool's central midfield at the moment? Do you think you need to get more strength in depth so that Gerrard can be managed properly, or do you think the players are already there?
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Definitely need more. I hope for another CM alongside Can.

As for Gerrard, he still has a lot to offer for Liverpool but I hope Rodgers has the cojones to not play him in every game, twice a week next season. Don't want him becoming the elephant in the room.
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
Definitely need more. I hope for another CM alongside Can.

As for Gerrard, he still has a lot to offer for Liverpool but I hope Rodgers has the cojones to not play him in every game, twice a week next season. Don't want him becoming the elephant in the room.
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Completely forgot you've already bought Can.
If Rodgers does start limiting Gerrard's appearances in order to keep him fresher for the end of the season, who should be given the captaincy when he's not playing?
 
Globule said:
Completely forgot you've already bought Can.
If Rodgers does start limiting Gerrard's appearances in order to keep him fresher for the end of the season, who should be given the captaincy when he's not playing?
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Suarez.
 
Globule said:
Because you genuinely consider him captain material or because of a lack of other options, or just to keep him happy?
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A combination of the three. He's the most experienced first team player we have after Gerrard (Agger is not a guaranteed starter anymore); he's also our most influential player and has captained Ajax in the past. I think captaincy would suit his fiery attitude but giving him a bit of extra responsibility could also help him tame some of his wilder tendencies.

And of course, it could only improve his relationship with the club.
 
Globule said:
The same thing happened with Giggs and Scholes a few years back. They'd be poor for half the season, but for the other half would be fantastic. I'm not sure what my point is though, as there is no correlation. If it was fitness, that wouldn't explain why they were sometimes great in the second half of seasons and not the first, if it was their ability to handle pressure, that wouldn't explain why they were sometimes great in the first half but not the second. Either way, I think it would be optimistic to think Liverpool will get a full season of greatness from Gerrard at this stage of his career.

What's the deal with Liverpool's central midfield at the moment? Do you think you need to get more strength in depth so that Gerrard can be managed properly, or do you think the players are already there?
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Gerrard let's his heart rule his head, it's served him well on occasion but in the pressure cooker of major tournaments he hasn't the calm of players like Pirlo, Scholes, Xavi and it's seen him come unstuck almost every time. Even in the league run in he displayed this trait as we all saw with the performance that followed the slip.
The step up to international level isn't just about the step in ability, all the pressures to perform in a tournament environment become magnified and it's as much about keeping it together mentally as anything else.

Gerrard no matter how well managed will never have the longevity of a Scholes or Giggs unless he's prepared to assert some control over his ego. Having him sat as the deepest midfielder will always be a huge risk, especially if his heart decides he needs to win a game on his own, is it any surprise Liverpools defence last season was so poor ?
 
gasmanc said:
Gerrard let's his heart rule his head, it's served him well on occasion but in the pressure cooker of major tournaments he hasn't the calm of players like Pirlo, Scholes, Xavi and it's seen him come unstuck almost every time. Even in the league run in he displayed this trait as we all saw with the performance that followed the slip.
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But what about his last minute penalty vs Fulham at Craven Cottage, or his performance in the second half vs Aston Villa? Or his penalties at Old Trafford? Last minute set piece at Goodison to save us a point? Were these not big moments where bottlers become unstuck? Gerrard's cool head and match changing ability was one of the very reasons Liverpool lasted the title race. This is aptly overlooked.

And he is a different player to Pirlo, Scholes or Xavi, and always has been.
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
But what about his last minute penalty vs Fulham at Craven Cottage, or his performance in the second half vs Aston Villa? Or his penalties at Old Trafford? Last minute set piece at Goodison to save us a point? Were these not big moments where bottlers become unstuck? Gerrard's cool head and match changing ability was one of the very reasons Liverpool lasted the title race. This is aptly overlooked.

And he is a different player to Pirlo, Scholes or Xavi, and always has been.
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Cool head..... Yep. Okey dokey then, next you will be claiming Suarez isn't a racist with a vampire fetish, sterling isn't a transvestite and Andy Carroll was value for money.
 
And the penalties at ot didn't need a cool head, it was obvious very early on you were going to maul us, we were pathetic from the first minute
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
But what about his last minute penalty vs Fulham at Craven Cottage, or his performance in the second half vs Aston Villa? Or his penalties at Old Trafford? Last minute set piece at Goodison to save us a point? Were these not big moments where bottlers become unstuck? Gerrard's cool head and match changing ability was one of the very reasons Liverpool lasted the title race. This is aptly overlooked.

And he is a different player to Pirlo, Scholes or Xavi, and always has been.
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Like I said his mentality has served him well on occasion but when the pressure requires you to keep calm and carry on, his ego propels him into headless chicken mode. You are right though he's a completely different player to those mentioned, they are/where World Class.
 
I'd laugh if he doesn't play against Costa Rica and England play well and win....
 
gasmanc said:
Like I said his mentality has served him well on occasion but when the pressure requires you to keep calm and carry on, his ego propels him into headless chicken mode. You are right though he's a completely different player to those mentioned, they are/where World Class.
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The overstating of Gerrard's apparent flaws in this thread is quite something.

As for world class, I think Gerrard has done enough at big moments to suggest he has been world class. Too many other players have said as much to quash any doubt.
 
Is it too controversial to suggest that England have no world-class players, given that they've just been eliminated from the World Cup at the very first stage?
 
SteveJ said:
Is it too controversial to suggest that England have no world-class players, given that they've just been eliminated from the World Cup at the very first stage?
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I'm afraid that somebody would try to turn this argument around and make the same claim for Spain.

I agree with you that Gerrard is immensely shit though Steve.
 
:lol: That's not exactly what I suggested, chief.
 
PickledRed said:
The overstating of Gerrard's apparent flaws in this thread is quite something.

As for world class, I think Gerrard has done enough at big moments to suggest he has been world class. Too many other players have said as much to quash any doubt.
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World Class players have attributes that set them apart and one of them is consistent levels of performance at the highest level.
Having "big moments" is left for the rest of the mortals like Gerrard, I am not saying he's been a flash in the pan but he's failed to carry consistently top performances week in week out and in the biggest games of his career he's only been consistent in letting himself down. He's more of an explosive player which is where his ego serves him well, Rooney is a better player than Gerrard and the same criticisms can be levelled at him. I would not say either are anywhere near World Class although both players have had some worldie moments.
 
gasmanc said:
World Class players have attributes that set them apart and one of them is consistent levels of performance at the highest level.
Having "big moments" is left for the rest of the mortals like Gerrard, I am not saying he's been a flash in the pan but he's failed to carry consistently top performances week in week out and in the biggest games of his career he's only been consistent in letting himself down. He's more of an explosive player which is where his ego serves him well, Rooney is a better player than Gerrard and the same criticisms can be levelled at him. I would not say either are anywhere near World Class although both players have had some worldie moments.
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While I wholeheartedly disagree with you general assessment the bit in bold is the most remarkable anti-Gerrard comment I have read so far. Biggest game of his career Istanbul 2005...nothing needs adding there. Plus, he's scored in every competition final in the game - FA Cup (where he was outstanding), Uefa, League Cup and of course Champions League. Plus he's scored in two World Cups.

Of course there are big games when he hasn't been as dazzling but to suggest this is a consistent element to his game is rubbish. His performances again United and particularly Everton over the years again goes to show what he does in his club's biggest games. The "ego" stuff also is simplistic and does no service to what he has contributed during his career.

The clamour on here to get at Gerrard after Thursday is fair game, that's football, but the half-baked analysis of his record as a player is just biased pap. As I've stated, there are enough highly regarded people who have stated his attributes over the years for me to be secure in having him labelled as world class.
 
He should of stepped down, like Beckham did....no need to retire if he doesn't want too. But stepping down stops him being first choice at 34.
 
Zen said:
He should of stepped down, like Beckham did....no need to retire if he doesn't want too. But stepping down stops him being first choice at 34.
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Yep. There's a reason why he's nicknamed stevie me though.
 
Thisistheone said:
What's going to be difficult for Gerrard now is not having a weeks rest between games, all season long. At his age, Brendan is going to have to use him intelligently, like Fergie did with Giggs & Scholes.
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Yep, Brendan is going to have to yse him intelligently. Ideally we get 30-35 games out of him.

goldenstatesplash said:
Do you even believe any of this?

His best position is clearly behind a front striker carrying late option goal threat. Unless there is a duo doing all the running for him his deep lying role is niche and borderline irrelevant. The same hit and miss long distribution might as well be a duo with good on ball dynamism. He's pulled the wool over a lot of eyes this past season. I am honestly staggered people haven't seen the blatant obviousness of taking away a dedicated close and hose ball winner in Lucas and his game falls apart. He simply doesn't have the legs or the intelligent dynamic passing tempo to play in a two man midfield. I mean, go back and watch those two games - it's as blatantly obvious as a headbutting a lorry doing 60mph the other way.
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His best position is clearly not at a number 10. He does not have the energy to be able to play that position. We don't ask him to play in a two man midfield either. Gerrard's best performances have come without Lucas this season.

Globule said:
The same thing happened with Giggs and Scholes a few years back. They'd be poor for half the season, but for the other half would be fantastic. I'm not sure what my point is though, as there is no correlation. If it was fitness, that wouldn't explain why they were sometimes great in the second half of seasons and not the first, if it was their ability to handle pressure, that wouldn't explain why they were sometimes great in the first half but not the second. Either way, I think it would be optimistic to think Liverpool will get a full season of greatness from Gerrard at this stage of his career.

What's the deal with Liverpool's central midfield at the moment? Do you think you need to get more strength in depth so that Gerrard can be managed properly, or do you think the players are already there?
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I think Can is enough. I'd be happy going into the season with Gerrard, Henderson, Allen, Can, Coutinho and Lallana. Can should allow Gerrard to be managed properly, so I think another midfielder would be a bit much.

Globule said:
Completely forgot you've already bought Can.
If Rodgers does start limiting Gerrard's appearances in order to keep him fresher for the end of the season, who should be given the captaincy when he's not playing?
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The next vice captain will be Suarez or Henderson.
 
PickledRed said:
While I wholeheartedly disagree with you general assessment the bit in bold is the most remarkable anti-Gerrard comment I have read so far. Biggest game of his career Istanbul 2005...nothing needs adding there. Plus, he's scored in every competition final in the game - FA Cup (where he was outstanding), Uefa, League Cup and of course Champions League. Plus he's scored in two World Cups.

Of course there are big games when he hasn't been as dazzling but to suggest this is a consistent element to his game is rubbish. His performances again United and particularly Everton over the years again goes to show what he does in his club's biggest games. The "ego" stuff also is simplistic and does no service to what he has contributed during his career.

The clamour on here to get at Gerrard after Thursday is fair game, that's football, but the half-baked analysis of his record as a player is just biased pap. As I've stated, there are enough highly regarded people who have stated his attributes over the years for me to be secure in having him labelled as world class.
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The biggest games of your career are major international tournaments, he's not alone in not showing up for the vast majority of them.
Hopefully he and Lampard will announce retirements once the latest farce ends on Tuesday.

Gerrard has been a great talisman for Liverpool during his career but I feel this seasons sorry end ultimately sums him up.
 
Phil Neville on BBC " Steve Gerrard, we can't afford to lose you" :lol:
Why are pundits so afraid to criticise him.
 
Nobody should listen to the words of a man who has highlights in his hair in his late 30s.
 
hp88 said:
Phil Neville on BBC " Steve Gerrard, we can't afford to lose you" :lol:
Why are pundits so afraid to criticise him.
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Probably to counter the over-abuse Man Utd fans give him. He shouldn't retire just step down, he'd be fine in a 3 man midfield in quali's against mostly minnows, and theres only like 5 midfielders anyway, so come injuries the begging process will start again. Though it also means he'll probably break Shilt's record for a while until Rooney takes it....not sure I want to see that week. It'll be brutal.

Lampard however, probably should, but I think he's happy being backup and come when asked out of desperation. Just think he likes playing.
 
Most selfish player I've ever seen in my life. He has choked at 3 world cups and 2 Euro's, all ready and he still won't retire or feck off aged 34 when he pretty much has nothing to offer anyway. Pundits who keep comparing him to Pirlo :lol:, He was constantly over run in midfield and cost England the game
against Uruguay.

Henderson should have anchored the midfield by himself with Barkley and Wilshere in front of him. Something like...

-------------------------Henderson--------------------------
---------------Barkley-------------------Wilshere------------
----Lallana---------------Sturridge-----------------Sterling------------

Would have actually probably worked, But no, it's all about the undroppable Stevie Me.

Oh and the stupid Pundits who keep on saying "youth were positives" during the world cup hahahahahaha!, I'm sorry but Sterling was the only young player who even started and Barkley got like 20mins of game time over 2 games. Shaw, Jones, Barkley pretty much didn't even get a look in.

Germany played their youth in the 2010 word cup and got to the semi-final, England played theirs and couldn't get past the group stages and idiots like Neville and Greg Dyke think this world cup has been a success, something needs changing in the FA, absolutely embarrassing. Expect the same shite at euro 2016.
 
Zen said:
Probably to counter the over-abuse Man Utd fans give him. He shouldn't retire just step down, he'd be fine in a 3 man midfield in quali's against mostly minnows, and theres only like 5 midfielders anyway, so come injuries the begging process will start again. Though it also means he'll probably break Shilt's record for a while until Rooney takes it....not sure I want to see that week. It'll be brutal.

Lampard however, probably should, but I think he's happy being backup and come when asked out of desperation. Just think he likes playing.
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He's a good option if others are injured but the problem is our strength lies in the pace/power of players, for them to be able to play their best they need two players in the middle who can both run. I know they play together at club level but there's a big difference in that at club level that have Suarez who makes a massive difference to the attack.

Gerrard isn't at a level as a deep lying midfielder in the Pirlo/Xavi mold to make those sacrifices for him and it's not our strength in terms of the players available. Plus the games against the "minnows" should be used to get those who will be tournament starters as much time to gel imo.

Gerrard shouldn't retire as he's not finished but we should be brave enough to see him as an option only if he's played in to contention or if it suits the team as a whole. Not because of who he is and his "experience".
 
Phurry said:
You mean in the games where we should be looking to blood new players in competitive internationals, not making a space for a has been?
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We have like only one extra player who's a natural in midfield likely to come through in the next two years and that's Ward-Prowse. We are absolutely threadbare there, Barkley and Wilshere are injury prone, as is Jones. As they grow, this proneness might go, but for now, that is what they are. Barkleys seems to have gone the past year though for the most part. If we are going 3 man midfield, you ideally need to take 5 midfielders with a few other options....Hendo, Wilshere, Barkley, Oxlade, JWP, Gerrard, Carrick. 7 is what we have, and that's with Carrick probably never coming back into the fold, so 6, 5 if Gerrard retires, one of who Roy likes a lot on the wings, so down to 4 already.

Gerrards the better option than Barry, Parker or Lampard for me as the veteran backup.

Oh, possibly Will Hughes too. True shame they didn't get promoted.
 
gasmanc said:
The biggest games of your career are major international tournaments, he's not alone in not showing up for the vast majority of them.
Hopefully he and Lampard will announce retirements once the latest farce ends on Tuesday.
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Well that's not true.

gasmanc said:
Gerrard has been a great talisman for Liverpool during his career but I feel this seasons sorry end ultimately sums him up.
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Well it's just a feeling rather than having the merest semblance of accuracy.
 
Zen said:
We have like only one extra player who's a natural in midfield likely to come through in the next two years and that's Ward-Prowse. We are absolutely threadbare there, Barkley and Wilshere are injury prone, as is Jones. As they grow, this proneness might go, but for now, that is what they are. Barkleys seems to have gone the past year though for the most part. If we are going 3 man midfield, you ideally need to take 5 midfielders with a few other options....Hendo, Wilshere, Barkley, Oxlade, JWP, Gerrard, Carrick. 7 is what we have, and that's with Carrick probably never coming back into the fold, so 6, 5 if Gerrard retires, one of who Roy likes a lot on the wings, so down to 4 already.

Gerrards the better option than Barry, Parker or Lampard for me as the veteran backup.

Oh, possibly Will Hughes too. True shame they didn't get promoted.
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And until we get past this mentality of filling our squad with veterans "just in case", particularly those that have actually not done anything of note in competitive games, we'll continue to get the sort of performances we've just seen.

EDIT: Our national football team could learn a lot from our cricket squad, they are not afraid to bin "legends", KP for example, when the time has come. It took them a long time to understand that keeping veterans around once they have started to diminish does more damage than good, but they've certainly gotten over that in more recent times.
 
We can get past that mentality when theres depth to get past that. As I just pointed out, there isn't....and likely won't be for the next two years. He wouldn't be a starter for me in any sense, I've made it clear I think Jones-Wilshere-Barkley(or Oxlade as he has proven he can do it for Arsenal in KO CL football which Barkley has not) is my priority in a 3.

Hendo as the fifth choice. JWP as the youngster coming in. Hughes/Gerrard as the last two. Unfortunately Jones probably will never be used as a DM for England, Oxlade possibly though given Sterling looking good.

Phurry said:
EDIT: Our national football team could learn a lot from our cricket squad, they are not afraid to bin "legends", KP for example, when the time has come. It took them a long time to understand that keeping veterans around once they have started to diminish does more damage than good, but they've certainly gotten over that in more recent times.
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They'd have KP back in a heartbeat if it wasn't for all the baggage he brings, just like John Terry would of been partnering Cahill here. Sorry but woeful comparison since he wasn't dropped for performance reasons.

Strauss and Swanny on the otherhand continued despite being on the way down, and got to retire themselves instead of being dropped and into forced retirement which the football team did do essentially with Cole and Defoe, and probably Lampard by not even considering him.
 
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Gerrard deserves all the criticism he is getting for this World Cup but no one can question his mentality when at his best he dragged Liverpool to heights they should of never have got, scoring in near enough every final or big game he played in.
 
PickledRed said:
Well that's not true.



Well it's just a feeling rather than having the merest semblance of accuracy.
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Well it's not true when your out before you've unpacked your case.
Gerrard must have a day bag at the ready. I really can't remember a more pathetic England captain than your talisman here.

A feeling it is all the same, selfish to a fault and his performance after the slip summed him up, it was also evident after he had gifted Suarez the knock out blow.

Truly hoping he's anchoring your midfield this coming season, liability.
 
SonnyTheHaloPro said:
Most selfish player I've ever seen in my life. He has choked at 3 world cups and 2 Euro's, all ready and he still won't retire or feck off aged 34 when he pretty much has nothing to offer anyway. Pundits who keep comparing him to Pirlo :lol:, He was constantly over run in midfield and cost England the game
against Uruguay.

Henderson should have anchored the midfield by himself with Barkley and Wilshere in front of him. Something like...

-------------------------Henderson--------------------------
---------------Barkley-------------------Wilshere------------
----Lallana---------------Sturridge-----------------Sterling------------

Would have actually probably worked, But no, it's all about the undroppable Stevie Me.

Oh and the stupid Pundits who keep on saying "youth were positives" during the world cup hahahahahaha!, I'm sorry but Sterling was the only young player who even started and Barkley got like 20mins of game time over 2 games. Shaw, Jones, Barkley pretty much didn't even get a look in.

Germany played their youth in the 2010 word cup and got to the semi-final, England played theirs and couldn't get past the group stages and idiots like Neville and Greg Dyke think this world cup has been a success, something needs changing in the FA, absolutely embarrassing. Expect the same shite at euro 2016.
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Good post there I think. I mean, no doubt Sterling and Barkley are excellent players - but this nonsense about them being world class (or soon to be, world class) is rubbish. Sterling had a very good season, and did decent in the 2 games for England - but I don't think he was better than a lot of other good young players have been recently. Isco, Gotze, Reus, Hazard all performed better at the same age. Barkley has been immense, I'm a big fan of his, but I don't think he had a good a season as Pogba or Verratti or Thiago had at the same age. Again, Sturridge has been talked about as being a world class striker, but Ballotelli and Cavani (and of course Suarez) showed the gap in performance. That's not to say he's a very good player, but he's still nowhere near the standard of the real best players.
 
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