Name me an England player that is.He's never a top, top player, at international level especially
Steven Gerrard
- Thread starter Lynk
- Start date
Ashley Cole?
Not a bad shout.
That's irrelevant.
What I'm saying is that he's never that good but people still put too much expectation on him to deliver. The ideas such as the one that he needs two other midfielders close to him will be a waste of time since he's never a top player to begin with.
IMO - he is the player with the biggest gap in performances for his club and his country over the last 10 years. For Liverpool he often has been a one-man team - but as soon as he enters the field for England, he has generally been average.
Just to establish context, are you talking about the current Gerrard or his entire career in terms of not being a top player? Presume you mean the current incarnation.
Rooney has never carried United like Gerrard did. Maybe only on one or two seasons where his goals were invaluable to our success.
I thought you were talking about the differences in levels of performance between club and country. Rodney's is significant
Both. And especially now.
He's a very good player no doubt. But he is miles off top, top midfield players such as the likes of Zidane, Figo, Best, Platini, Cruyff, Charlton. His biggest problem was his love for Liverpool.
A few posts ago you said he carried Liverpool so was doing his stuff in a weakened team. That indicates top level ability.
Anyway, I'm comfortable in the opinion that he has been a top player in the modern game who has had enough accolades from many in the game (including Zidane) to support that belief. I don't expect United fans to indulge in such praise but you only have to pop over to RAWK and you'd think Rooney was a pub player.
Fandom certainly clouds judgement.
No, that indicates he was the best player in a mediocre team. If he'd been showing himself as a top player when surrounded by 10 other top players then he'd be showing top level ability.
Only in Scouseland maybe(Barney said at half time of the Uruguay match that Gerrard was one of the better players
)One good performance against USA doesn't mean he's the best player.
Yeah, no. England were shit in 2006 and Beckham laid on the most of the important goals while Gerrard and Lampard shat themselves. In 2010 barring that first half against USA Gerrard was embarrassing.
Difference is, we acknowledge that Gerrard was a top player who is on a decline now and think that he is not one of THE best midfielders of his generation like Liverpool fans have us to believe. Pirlo-Xavi-Scholes-Zidane comfortable a level above him. Still a top player who achieved lot of success.
RAWK on the other hand, as you said makes Rooney look like pub player whereas the sane ones here acknowledge he is v. good player, not in league of Messi and Ronaldo etc but currently important to the club. Don't compare any site on internet with RAWK. 5 year kids will type more sense than most of the posters on RAWK.
When has Gerrard ever done it in a big match for England? He has a few good games V the likes of the USA and Trinidad and Tobago. Never at a major finals has he played well against the best.
In fairness he is not the only big player who has failed to show up. Its really only being England defense since Euro 2004 that has played well in a couple of tournaments.
At least Rooney has Euro 2004. His injury V Portugal cost them a semi final place IMO. Wasnt it Vasell who came on to replace him?
In fairness he is not the only big player who has failed to show up. Its really only being England defense since Euro 2004 that has played well in a couple of tournaments.
At least Rooney has Euro 2004. His injury V Portugal cost them a semi final place IMO. Wasnt it Vasell who came on to replace him?
Rubbish. Cole and Rio (and Hargreaves) are the only players to have come out of the past few tournaments for England with any great credit. To be fair this time round Cahill did well too although he's nowhere near as good as the previous centre halves we've had and he's not helped by being surrounded by a heaving sea of defensive piss.
Gerrard has had enormous natural talent (passing range, shooting, tackling and, at his peak, decent pace) but he never quite developed into the player he threatened to be when he first broke through. I think that is partially due to staying at Liverpool his entire career rather than challenging himself under Mourinho at Chelsea or at an overseas club. But, perhaps more seriously, he has always come across as mentally vulnerable, trying to take all the burden on himself when things are going wrong rather than keeping a cool head and playing his normal (effective) game. I think that is the reason ultimately why he falls short of the Xavi, Pirlo and Scholes level.
And a question for the older fans on here- trying to put club bias aside, how do you compare Gerrard to Bryan Robson?
I truly believe that Robson was an all round better player than Gerrard and certainly a better leader.
Gerrard was best at being an explosive player in the attacking midfield/number 10 role. Its always a bit unfair to compare Gerrard to CMs as his best days were never in CM.
No way. Beckham and Hargreaves were England's best players in 2006 and I don't have any idea if anyone was that good to be considered 'England's best player' in 2010.
Gerrard was by far the England's best player on the last EURO though, but other than that his international career has been disappointing.
I tend to agree (and I admit I am biased) but I don't remember Robbo imposing himself that often for England against top opposition. Granted he was unlucky with injuries but he also played in the Euro 88 campaign for example where Holland trashed us 3-1.
To be fair, they want other people to believe that he was the best midfielder of his generation (or the best ever midfielder). They rate him higher than the midfielders you mentioned (well, probably bar Zidane which according to them was on the same level as Gerrard).
Funny thing is, fans of others clubs don't rate him as high as the players you mentioned. However I have to say that similarily to Lampard, Gerrard on top form was a really great player and probably even in the level of the players you mentioned (although his strength were as an attacking midfielder so he didn't had the ability to control the games) but his best didn't last near as long as the best of Pirlo, Scholes, Zidane and to a degree Xavi.
Gerrard as a central midfielder hasn't ever been great or world class though. On the level of Carrick at best which is one or two levels below the great midfielders of our generation. Gerrard as an attacking midfielder though is another thing, one of the best of his time.
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Beckham was awful in 2006. The The Neville, Rio, Terry, Cole was by far the best feature of that team. The only time the team looked alive was when he went off injured against Portugal and Lennon came on (Lennon- a reminder that we shouldn't get too excited by England's young talent...)
Was he hell.
2006 Ferdinand, Cole, Beckham, even Hargreaves all performed better. Gerrard and Lampard were a massive let-down as usual.
The less said about 2010 the better. England were woeful. Couldn't beat the US or Algeria and then stuff by Germany. Where was Gerrard?
To be honest I believe there was only one player in an English shirt, over the last couple of decades, capable of imposing himself through sheer talent, passion,ability and determination and that was Gaza. However, unfortunately, things didn't quite work out as we all know....
On the left wing. Which was stupid. Capello was afraid to drop one of Gerrard or Lampard.
Beckham must have scored or set up half of England's goals that WC.
He did due to his brilliant dead ball delivery (against third rate teams it must be said). But the reason the team was so one-paced and reliant on set pieces in the first place was in large part due to the absence of pace on the flanks. He was the prime example of Sven refusing to drop big names. That team should have done better.
The only tournament Gerrard has played well in for England was Euro 2012 when he set up most of our goals.
His biggest contribution at Euro 2004 was the classic Gerrard thing of a terrible backpass which resulted in us losing to France. He was a massive let down in 2006 when he was supposedly at his peak and 2010 he was admittedly one of the better players in a total failure of a World Cup for England, but he was still rubbish.
He was also completely awful in the crucial qualification games against Greece, when Beckham rescued us, in 2001 and Croatia, when nobody rescued us, in 2007. Saved his worst for his last international tournament though I think.
His biggest contribution at Euro 2004 was the classic Gerrard thing of a terrible backpass which resulted in us losing to France. He was a massive let down in 2006 when he was supposedly at his peak and 2010 he was admittedly one of the better players in a total failure of a World Cup for England, but he was still rubbish.
He was also completely awful in the crucial qualification games against Greece, when Beckham rescued us, in 2001 and Croatia, when nobody rescued us, in 2007. Saved his worst for his last international tournament though I think.
Pirlo is massively overrated.
But still better than any english CM.
No, that would be Rooney.
Keeping the ball and setting a tempo is so important.
Spanish paper AS didn't even give Gerrard a rating in his performance against Uruguay as it was that bad. Courtesy of the BBC gossip column. Poor Stevie G, what a woeful end to the season he has had. Perhaps fergie was right with his comments in his book.
You do realise that Rooney has scored 16 goals in 22 qualifiers?
31 in 59 competitive internationals.
http://www.englandstats.com/players.php?pid=1126
Ugh. So are other things. Keeping the ball and setting a tempo didn't do Xavi and co any good this year... Did it?
He's a choker. Can't do it on the big stage when it counts.
That's a fair criticism but not relevant to lysglimt's point which was about the biggest gap between performances between club and country.