Rooney will get all the criticisms, doubts etc etc, since it seems to be a media sport to knock him. But Gerard really deserves to have the shite thrown at him to to balance all the fairness. He seems untouchable from criticism.
Steven Gerrard
- Thread starter Lynk
- Start date
The shit thrown at him? Replace shit with bricks or petrol bombs and I'm on board
Here's an article actually criticising the untouchable.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ad-memories-after-Englands-latest-defeat.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ad-memories-after-Englands-latest-defeat.html
Imagine for a second, if Suarez was a yard further back, and Cavani had flicked the ball on instead of Gerrard.
Suarez would be onside and clean through on goal - why the feck should this even be possible from a big punt up the field. Jagielka is doing absolutely nothing in his position, he's neither covering Suarez, nor going to head the ball (he should be doing the latter in my opinion, but if he isn't he should at least be on Suarez) - Cahill, instead of covering round for Jags, is just stood doing not a lot 10 yards right of him.
It's piss poor from both of them, mainly Jagielka. Gerrard was utterly rubbish yesterday, but for bigger reasons then that goal.
Isn't the point that Suarez wasn't a yard further back? He'd strayed offside and they knew it, so why give up on the defensive line?
Defenders can't stop playing the offside trap and track back with strikers on the off chance one of their own team mates will play the killer through ball.
If Suarez was a yard further back and onside, he wouldn't have been in a position to score, that's the whole point. It's like saying every time defenders play the opposition striker offside they're wrong because there's a chance their own teammate will feck it up and pass him the ball. Gerrard basically gifted him a chance with that horrible clearance, nothing to do with poor defending, unlike the first goal.
This world cup campaign for me has proved my thoughts all along on him- the premiership is his level- put him up against anyone of any class and he looks nothing special. Barring the Champions league final that is.
Never thought I'd say this but I genuinely feel sorry for Gerrard. He's been a brilliant servant for his club and tried his heart for his country (albeit never hitting the same heights as he does for his club - like almost every other English footballer of the last 2 or 3 decades) His recent series of calamities in the league and now at the World Cup must be absolutely excruciating. If his career is coming to a close it's a horrendous way for a very good footballer to reach the end of the road.
He is falsely credited with winning the CL himself when it has Hamann that changed the game. His chest pumping and running up to the camera makes him look the hero. I'm not saying he was shit mind, but he was built up massively.
They're not in a defensive line - at all. Jagielka is 5 yards further forward then Cahill and Baines for some bizarre reason. If he was actually in a defensive line with them, he probably cuts out the ball.
Jags has no idea where Suarez is - never mind the fact that he knew he was offside... if Suarez is in line with Cahill (our deepest defender) he's still way behind Jagielka... and so has a shit load of space to exploit.
If our defensive unit had been in some sort of line, you may have a point - but they weren't... at all. There is a massive bit of "onside" space behind Jagielka... if Suarez is a yard further back of course he'd still be in a position to score! The ball would go through in exactly the same way, and he'd still get to it first.
Ok, yeah, fair enough. Their positioning was all over the place, I agree. And not just on that occasion.
Here's an Image of the goal for the discussion:
Suarez could easily be onside and still have scored - people lose headers in the middle of the park all the time, I mean... it happens literally every game... what you expect is covering defenders to deal with it as a unit.
Suarez could easily be onside and still have scored - people lose headers in the middle of the park all the time, I mean... it happens literally every game... what you expect is covering defenders to deal with it as a unit.
It's so funny re-thinking of all the scouse posters who, for ages, have been going on about how he 'reinvented himself' in a new position and mentions of Scholes and so on. He's been absolutely awful and seems to have no tactical awareness whatsoever.
A lot of people mentioned they'd want the media to go after them like they did Rooney: I don't. I think it's despicable how the media always goes on a crusade against one player (Beckham, Neville, Rooney, etc.) when it's a team sport. I think it's tasteless when they do it to one of 'ours', and I don't wish it on Gerrard or anyone else.
However, he just doesn't have the level to play in that role at all or to lead this team. I wonder whether Roy will have the balls to drop him for the last game, there's absolutely no one left that actually thinks he should start, surely?
A lot of people mentioned they'd want the media to go after them like they did Rooney: I don't. I think it's despicable how the media always goes on a crusade against one player (Beckham, Neville, Rooney, etc.) when it's a team sport. I think it's tasteless when they do it to one of 'ours', and I don't wish it on Gerrard or anyone else.
However, he just doesn't have the level to play in that role at all or to lead this team. I wonder whether Roy will have the balls to drop him for the last game, there's absolutely no one left that actually thinks he should start, surely?
Here's an Image of the goal for the discussion:
Suarez could easily be onside and still have scored - people lose headers in the middle of the park all the time, I mean... it happens literally every game... what you expect is covering defenders to deal with it as a unit.
They may have been all over the place throughout the game, but we're talking about one particular episode which led to the second goal, and I don't see it as the defenders' fault for the reasons mentioned earlier. You're encroaching into "what if" territory with the remarks like "he could easily be onside and still scored", well, the point is, he wasn't and he wouldn't even get a chance to score if it wasn't for Gerrard's mistake. Cahill in particular did quite well against Suarez through the whole game and I'd imagine was absolutely gutted to be let down like that in the very end.
As for the bigger picture, with Terry and Cole in place of Jagielka and Baines England would at least have had a chance to get out of the group. Nothing against Everton players, but hard work doesn't make up for lack of class at this level, and they were badly exposed, especially Jagielka. Johnson is a shit defender, too but at least he adds something going forward.
It's a "What if" because it's a reflection of our defensive positioning. I'm indicating that - if Cavani had headed the ball, not Gerrard (possible) and Suarez had been a tiny bit further back (also possible - so two things not out of the realms of possibility) we'd have ended up conceding the most basic goal in English World Cup History.
People lose/mis-place headers from goal kicks all the time.... I mean, it happens in literally every game, but generally you have your defenders behind you to deal with the situation. None of our defenders dealt with anything.
Agree on the second paragraph - particularly on Cole... there is literally no reason why he shouldn't have been at this World Cup.
Here's an Image of the goal for the discussion:
Suarez could easily be onside and still have scored - people lose headers in the middle of the park all the time, I mean... it happens literally every game... what you expect is covering defenders to deal with it as a unit.
To be fair, that still does justify the idea that him being offside was a big factor in allowing him run free. Is that Cahill closest to Suarez? He's looking along the line and can clearly see that Suarez is offside. Hence he'll have been happy to let him run off him. If Suarez had held his run to stay onside, I'm sure Cahill would have got goalside and tracked his run.
Yes, teams lose headers in the middle of the park but what you can't allow for is someone on your own team heading it backwards straight into the path of an onrushing striker. That's one of those freak occurences that can make any defence look like a shambles.
Of course, in this instance the defence happened to have spent most of the game up until that point looking like a shambles anyway...
True on Cahill- it's mainly Jagileka's positioning... which is really weird. He's not really doing anything there - Rio was very critical of him in the studio last night.
Great post(s). I've enjoyed Gerrard's season turning to shite but he wasn't the main culprit for that goal imo.
If there's any truth in the rumours about Moyes telling him to "play a bit more like Jagielka" you can see why Rio will have been itching to stick the boot in!
To be fair, Jagielka was dreadful. Although maybe a bit harsh to crucify him for that goal, where he was in a crap position but probably couldn't have influenced things even if he'd been 3 or 4 yards further back. You also have to wonder if he gave Gerrard a call and was moving forwards to get to the flight of the ball?
The difference between Scholes and Gerrard is the same between Keane and Gattuso. Just saying
Here's an Image of the goal for the discussion:
Suarez could easily be onside and still have scored - people lose headers in the middle of the park all the time, I mean... it happens literally every game... what you expect is covering defenders to deal with it as a unit.
Cahill knew he was offside and hence give him space to not make it marginal.
No defender would expect a teammate heading the ball perfectly backward for a through ball. Otherwise you'd never set an offside trap.
People lose headers and if Gerrard lost it, it would've been offside.
It's as if he's cursed ever since that speech.
Time for him to retire, along with Lampard. Really hope the pair feck off as they're both past their best. At least Lampard doesn't even play anymore, Gerrard, though, sadly does.
Johnson should never be picked for England again. Shaw needs looking at as defensively he's miles ahead of Baines even at this age.
Johnson should never be picked for England again. Shaw needs looking at as defensively he's miles ahead of Baines even at this age.
Did anyone just catch Tony Cottee's interview on SSN just?
He said something to the effect of 'Gerrard has had a poor World Cup, no offence to him because he's a Liverpool player but....'
Unbelievable. How dare you criticise a Liverpool player Tony! It's against the rules!
He said something to the effect of 'Gerrard has had a poor World Cup, no offence to him because he's a Liverpool player but....'
Unbelievable. How dare you criticise a Liverpool player Tony! It's against the rules!
Probably meant to say something like "not sticking it to him because he's a Liverpool player..."
Cottee being an old blue and all.
I completely agree. His performances in this world cup have been poor yet it seems like Roy is far too afraid to drop him. Not sure what he's afraid of exactly, if he's not playing well, you don't start him, it's simple. Same goes for anyone not pulling their weight in the team.
I mean take his comment here after the defeat yesterday for example:
Ummm Stevie, what do you mean WE? Wasn't it YOU that set up Suarez for the winning goal, or were we watching a totally different game?
Possibly. I just find it hilarious he feels he has to apologise just because he plays for Liverpool. If he played crap, he played crap, don't try and sugarcoat. Sky are now running a poll about 'what they should do about the Wayne Rooney situation.' Thank God it wasn't Rooney who made those mistakes last night. He'd probably end up the same way as that Columbian player the way some of these Ingerland twats are carrying on.
Let's be honest, another mystery of this world cup is the lack of criticism for Jagjielka. The guy's just not good enough.
There's a number of them in this England squad. Gerrard (does nothing other than feed the opposition in), Jagjielka (comical lack of technical ability), Hart (flaps at crosses every game I see him play for England), Baines (overrated player with a lack of positional intelligence).
Now, you could easily criticise those players this world cup but still people would rather take Rooney out of the team (who was England's best player against Uruguay and only outshined by Suarez) or just needlessly call him crap, overweight, etc. It really is a joke. I am not a big Rooney fan, but the guy left everything on the pitch for England last night and had a decent game in a side that seems strangely Moyesesque in the way it lacks shape up front (what a surprise, two average managers operating at a level above themselves struggling to make the most of their options).
I was complaining about Gerrard during the game to retorts of: "Don't criticise Gerrard," and, "He's a top lad."
What is this blinkered Gerrard love-in?
There's a number of them in this England squad. Gerrard (does nothing other than feed the opposition in), Jagjielka (comical lack of technical ability), Hart (flaps at crosses every game I see him play for England), Baines (overrated player with a lack of positional intelligence).
Now, you could easily criticise those players this world cup but still people would rather take Rooney out of the team (who was England's best player against Uruguay and only outshined by Suarez) or just needlessly call him crap, overweight, etc. It really is a joke. I am not a big Rooney fan, but the guy left everything on the pitch for England last night and had a decent game in a side that seems strangely Moyesesque in the way it lacks shape up front (what a surprise, two average managers operating at a level above themselves struggling to make the most of their options).
I was complaining about Gerrard during the game to retorts of: "Don't criticise Gerrard," and, "He's a top lad."
What is this blinkered Gerrard love-in?
Odd that Suarez gambled on Gerrard making a mistake. I guess he knows him best though.
Aye. I'd do something about the "Hodgson situation" before I got started on Rooney. And part of the "Hodgson situation" is that he keeps starting Stevie in a useless system which only exposes his glaring weaknesses as a CM further. It's something fundamentally wrong about playing Gerrard in that role, in that system - that's what the pundits should be discussing.
Its funny how English people think their media is harsh. Foreign media (especially the Spanish) is much more ruthless when it comes to criticising its players and coaches.
Gerrard gifted the goal. Without his flickon Suarez is offside. Jagielka is more culpable for the 1st goal along with Baines. Jagielka had a nightmare performance. I don't think I've seen a worse performance from an England defender at a tournament in my lifetime. Gerrard is a joke after his assist he lost his nerve and went into Stevie Me mode. As a captain you are supposed to be the most level headed player on the pitch. Whats with the hollywood balls and shooting on sight?
Definitely. And the pressure I would say is also higher, with foreign media following the player everywhere whereas in England they still respect your privacy a bit at least.
Maybe he can slip on the way back and get stuck in Brazil
Maybe? In the build up to the first goal Suarez waltzes past Gerrard, who makes no attempt to track his run, despite their being no holding midfielder to take on that duty. Gerrard was dire last night. Partly Roy's fault, Gerrard never plays at Liverpool without Lucas or Allen to clean up after him, but it was a truly awful display. Maybe England's worst player last night? Baines, Jagielka and Johnson would be close but I don't think anyone was as bad as Gerrard.
i'm not saying he was faultless. He lost the ball then did feckall to get it back while Uruguay counter attacked. My point is even after Gerrard's feckup the goal could have been prevented if one of Jagielka or Baines had tracked Suarez's run. They were caught napping. Gerrard was still the worst performer yesterday but I don't think Jagielka or Baines are far behind him. Baines did nothing to justify his selection ahead of Cole. He barely showed any of his famous attacking ability from fullback.
He really has looked incredibly rough ever since that slip. I don't think he's sleeping properly.
He's probably been getting threats from those pesky gangsters again.
I hope that the media will be insisting that Woy should drop Gerrard now, like they did with Rooney.
The problem here is that we have good replacements for Rooney in Sturridge, Sterling and Barkley etc. With Gerrard it's Lampard, Milner & Wilshere. I think Gerrard has been poor but he stays in for me purely for the lack of depth we have in his position.