Spurs XI: name 4 better Prem players in each position?

GimmeAKitKat said:
How has Kane been in pre-season games for Spurs? Was god-awful in the Euro's, looked like he needed a season off not a couple weeks.

Avoiding as much bias as possible

United i expect to be top four, wherein depends on how good the new and young players perform, but i cant see that team getting less than 4th even if they don't get it together right away.

Spurs i see 5th, challenging 4th if they can get lucky and steer clear of injuries again.

The difference i think lies is depth and those 3 World class players we now have that i don't think Spurs do. Spurs have little depth and injuries could massively hamper their season. United may hate seeing Fellaini on the pitch, but he provides depth, as do quite a few others. And while spurs have a few very good players, i think De Gea>Zlatan>Pogba (in that order) can potentially push us up a level.

De Gea is just De Gea, people may discuss "the best" between him, Neuer and others, but simply put i don't think even Neuer comes close to providing the raw points that De Gea does. All round game, Neuer may offer enough to be level, but simply stopping a ridiculous amount of chances that SHOULD be goals, De Gea is a step above.

Zlatan because he looks built for this league, he isn't slow, he's massive, got good feet and a decent brain too. And if there's anyone in world football who is likely to not have a problem adapting to a new league, its the guy who goes to new leagues and wins them in his first season for fun.

Pogba, World Class at this moment, looks for all the world like he should carry on in that once he hits the Prem again, but a small chance it doesn't quite work right away, but again, he's played in England before, knows a few of the players already, he shouldn't have trouble fitting in. Still has a slight question mark and maybe needs to prove he is world class in the Prem, but im not overly worried he wont.

Spurs lack that couple World Class players, same as United have the last few years, that can nudge them into the Elite bracket. Lloris is a very good keeper, Kane, Eriksen, Alli, Dier all could take another step up in progression but still i think need more time to be World class, if they're going to get there. The defence looks solid but nothing major, was impressed with Rose and Walker in the Euro's, Dembele seems to have his days, sometimes looks unstoppable, others looks dogshit. Lamela i think is working his arse off to do a job for Pochettino, but could be bettered.

I would like to see United and Spurs both make top four (United ahead obviously), but i just dont see City and Chelsea having bad seasons again, certainly not City. Arsenal could be a target, if they don't buy a Striker again. They will likely continue to do well with their pretty play against lower teams, before being mashed up for the most part by the better teams, because they dont have a really good striker and if anybody closes them down and sticks some tackles in, they often fall to pieces. But i just dont know how long even Arsenal fans will put up with Wenger/the club not buying a striker. At some point the delusion bubble has to burst and they have to say no more.
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World class players are not an absolute necessity. How many did Leicester have last season? There have been other success stories by teams without World class players. It's about having a team, just because players are generally rated as "World class" doesn't mean they will make a good team. I remember Alf Ramsay when he was building the 1966 World cup team, in a press conference the hacks were having a go at him as to why he wasn't selecting players x,y,z. His reply was, "I don't want eleven star players, I want a team." Never has a truer word been spoken, football is very much a team game. Incidently, the last two "World class" players Man Utd bought didn't turn out very well did they? Di Maria and Falcao. You could probably include Schweinsteiger in that as well. It's not about spending hundreds of millions on "World class" players, it's about having the right players that fit together as a team.
 
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SambaBoy said:
Albrighton, Ihenacho, Lingard, Schlupp (who's a LB/LM?) and Elmohammady. Some bad shouts in there. I'd have Lamela over Sterling, Sane, Mane and Firmino as well.
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Schlupp has been playing right wing al lot in pre season
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
You are talking a strawman. I said only those 2-3 get into our starting XI, not get into our entire squad.

For Dier, I guess you forgot we signed Xhaka who is hands down better all around than Dier. Cech is better than Lloris until Lloris proves otherwise. Monreal has been better than Rose the last few years. And Delle is so overrated its silly. Yes he had a little purple patch but he hasn't shown he is as good as Ramsey at his best at all.
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Erm...no I'm not, I said those players would easily have a chance at starting for you.

Oh, is he? Seen him a lot have you? Because he's never even played in the Premier League and you're already claiming he's hands down better than Dier. Let's wait till he actually kicks a ball first before making wild assertions, he's far from a world class player that you can be absolutely certain will be a success. I'm not putting a player in to a starting 11 based entirely on his reputation in a foreign league, unless it's a special case e.g a Pogba.

Monreal wasn't better than Rose last season. He was also pretty poor for Arsenal when he joined you, it was only really last season that I seem to remember your fans warmed to him.

Cech is better than Lloris untill Lloris proves otherwise? He was better last season, in my opinion, and the season before. But that's a matter of perspective, I understand people who prefer Cech.

A little purple patch :lol: you mean a purple patch that lasted from the moment he started playing till his suspension? Because he was excellent all season long, grabbing 10 goals 9 assists. Apparently he's no match for Ramsey though, who was downright abysmal for you last year. No reason at all to assume he'll be back to his very best next year.
 
Red Bug said:
The main question should be:

Are Spurs still Spursy?
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I think the end of last season proved that we are still a bit Spursy, yes. Shame because we spent almost the entire season overcoming the typical Spursy behavior.
 
BigDub said:
I think the end of last season proved that we are still a bit Spursy, yes. Shame because we spent almost the entire season overcoming the typical Spursy behavior.
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Good answer sir. Have a balloon.
 
BigDub said:
I think the end of last season proved that we are still a bit Spursy, yes. Shame because we spent almost the entire season overcoming the typical Spursy behavior.
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a bit? last season was basically the most Spursy thing it was possible to do, only way it could have been more Spursy would have been if you somehow finished 5th then sold Kane to Arsenal
 
Jimmy Skitz said:
a bit? last season was basically the most Spursy thing it was possible to do, only way it could have been more Spursy would have been if you somehow finished 5th then sold Kane to Arsenal
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We blew second place, but aside from finishing behind Arsenal (which is of course terribly painful and an awful way to end the season) there isn't much difference between second and third.

We never had a clear shot at the title points-wise, so not winning that wasn't particularly Spursy.
 
Jimmy Skitz said:
a bit? last season was basically the most Spursy thing it was possible to do, only way it could have been more Spursy would have been if you somehow finished 5th then sold Kane to Arsenal
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Nah, we've been way more Spursy in the past. It was way more Spursy for example, when we finished 4th after having a 10 point lead over Arsenal. This didn't feel like that, it was something a bit different.

We only really collapsed when there was nothing to play for this season, after the draw to Chelsea. Usually, doing a Spurs would mean crapping ourselves when we're close to winning something. This was just a failure to motivate the players after we dropped out of the title race, which if anything is worse. Despite our incredible season, the players should be ashamed of themselves for their end of season displays.
 
In answer to the OP, probably the only Spurs player who is better in his position than the traditional top 4 contenders' players in that position is Alderweireld. IMO all of the other teams have better players in each position. That in itself says a lot about the dive in quality of centre backs there's been in recent years, but that's another matter.

I'm not sure of what relevance the OP is though other than just a top trumps exercise with individual players. It's obviously a team game and right now (well at least last season) the Spurs manager has created a better team than several of the other top contenders, despite them lacking in individual quality. That's a compliment to Poch by the way.

One thing I do find entertaining is that even though they have a very good manager, their reputation of being a mentally weak team over the last 25 odd years I've been following football hasn't changed and has somehow managed to infect their teams just about every season. Quite spectacularly so last season. So even with a well drilled team rising above the quality of the individuals they have (compared to others I mean...clearly they have very good players) we'll still be talking about their weak mentality until they do something of actual note such as win trophies regularly.

Til then, they'll continue to be a bit of an irrelevance (from my point of view obviously!)
 
djdhrubs said:
In answer to the OP, probably the only Spurs player who is better in his position than the traditional top 4 contenders' players in that position is Alderweireld. IMO all of the other teams have better players in each position. That in itself says a lot about the dive in quality of centre backs there's been in recent years, but that's another matter.

I'm not sure of what relevance the OP is though other than just a top trumps exercise with individual players. It's obviously a team game and right now (well at least last season) the Spurs manager has created a better team than several of the other top contenders, despite them lacking in individual quality. That's a compliment to Poch by the way.

One thing I do find entertaining is that even though they have a very good manager, their reputation of being a mentally weak team over the last 25 odd years I've been following football hasn't changed and has somehow managed to infect their teams just about every season. Quite spectacularly so last season. So even with a well drilled team rising above the quality of the individuals they have (compared to others I mean...clearly they have very good players) we'll still be talking about their weak mentality until they do something of actual note such as win trophies regularly.
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So Giroud is better than Kane, gotcha. So is Costa I suppose. Despite scoring less league goals than Kane even in his successful first season.

Hart over Lloris too I guess.
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
So Giroud is better than Kane, gotcha. So is Costa I suppose. Despite scoring less league goals than Kane even in his successful first season.

Hart over Lloris too I guess.
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Maybe I didn't understand the OP. No I meant that the other top 4 teams have at least one better player than every Spurs player listed in the OP, except at centre back, where I think Alderweireld is better than any of the other top 4 teams' centre backs.

So for instance, Aguero is better than Kane, and De Gea is better than Lloris.
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
So Giroud is better than Kane, gotcha. So is Costa I suppose. Despite scoring less league goals than Kane even in his successful first season.

Hart over Lloris too I guess.
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I just re-read the OP. Or rather, I read it properly this time!

Apologies. I've just realised the OP is an even worse topic/ point of discussion than when I read it the first time round! I actually can't be arsed with it! :)
 
djdhrubs said:
Maybe I didn't understand the OP. No I meant that the other top 4 teams have at least one better player than every Spurs player listed in the OP, except at centre back, where I think Alderweireld is better than any of the other top 4 teams' centre backs.

So for instance, Aguero is better than Kane, and De Gea is better than Lloris.
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Ah ok, yeah that's fair enough!
 
m1y2 said:
I'd like to react:

Rose and Walker as much as I quite rate them they are playing at their peak and potential, not much space to improve, they can't exceed their potential as much as they already had under Poch who certainly pushed them... we have a similar player in Valencia who can be as good as them although limited player but on the other side we have Shaw who will be massive step up from whoever played on the left hand side last year, if he avoids the first two months without any hamstring injury then he might be declared as prone to injury as any other player from Poch group and Mourinho hardly has any injured palyers... he's massive massive step from what we have last year.

Alderweireld and Vertonghen is a great pairing but Smalling can easily match Alderweireld in overall ability and we will see how Bailly turns out, it's a different setup of CB's but defensive wise with certainly higher potential, considering that Mourinho will get his team play much better than Van Gaal and will implement better defensive organization at the back. I think we will have the best defense next year with Spurs, there will not be a huge difference in conceded goals between the teams, ie not more than 2 imo..

halfway through just realized it would take too much time to analyze in detail all players, all I wanted to say is that I don't think there is much space for improvement for some spurs players and their limited potentials... the players I can see who can get dramatically better are Alli and maybe Lamela who I think could struggle a bit next year to step up. staying on the same level in and out of the team. Dembele is playing at his peak, Kane is still young but he's one of those players consistently improving not making huge steps, although I rate him very highly I don't think he's nowehere near aguero level potential or the top top bracket, he's just a great striker for English league who might score so monay goals without being really spectacular throughout his career. Ibra will have a great impact and is a huge upgrade on what we had last season, he's not going to score less than Kane and than we have Rashford who will bang goals too, didn't have a single bad game and you just know he will get better living on the hype, learning from Ibra.. Jansenn is a big question mark, so many attackers failed in last few years, I don't think he will make a huge impact, playing with two strikers would not be the best option imo... and Njie and that asian guy if I havent missed something they are quite average squad options..

Erricksen I don't see stepping up unless he plays centrally and in different system.. Mata is comfortably on par or better than him

from the players we added will have added - Mickytaryan and Pogba would certainly start for Spurs and will mean big boost for us..
and there is Martial who is also comfortably better than Lamela and once he get a rest he will start to perform again, I am sure about it..

all in all I can't see any huge improvement from Spurs who finished only 4 points behind United last season in very underwhelming season which was for Spurs one of the best ones.. I am sure that Mourinho himsel will get players perform much better and earn us at least 15 more points even in his first season...

I am also sure we will finish above Spurs next year who might fight with Liverpool, whom I expect to step up this year, Leicester and possibly with one of the minor clubs fight for thw 5th-7th place... watch how the champions league football alone affects your performances..
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Willing to bet that Ibra will not manage as many goals in the Premier League as Kane.
 
BigDub said:
We blew second place, but aside from finishing behind Arsenal (which is of course terribly painful and an awful way to end the season) there isn't much difference between second and third.

We never had a clear shot at the title points-wise, so not winning that wasn't particularly Spursy.
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That mentality is why you'll never win the league. You're okay with just being within touching distance.
 
GimmeAKitKat said:
... The difference i think lies is depth and those 3 World class players ...
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Ah yes, the famous world class players again ... it's funny how every United team each season always seems either several of these or several world-class prospects, or both, so I'm always told.

The season before last there was di Maria ... well, we saw how well that turned out. Last season came the "world class" Schweinsteiger - age no problem apparently. Now it's the same with Ibrahimovich, who, at the age of 34 going on 35, and after swanning around in a piss-poor French league for the last few years, is now going to dazzle the Prem with his apparently unabated world-classness. Forgive me if I wait until the proof is found in the Prem pudding.

And of course Martial must be hailed as a world-class prospect, and likewise Shaw, but not Kane it seems, or Alli ... because they didn't cost mega-bucks and/or haven't signed for United.

And now Pogba, who of course must be world-class, or how else could he be costing £110m (or whatever the latest absurd figures are)? Yet Serie A is not the Prem, so again forgive me if I wait to see how well he actually does before joining the fan-boys of his supposed world-class status.

Prospects aside, that actually leaves you with de Gea, who is I agree a world-class GK. The rest have to prove it, at the ages they are at, in the Prem. Everything else is just so much hot air.
 
Billy Blaggs said:
That mentality is why you'll never win the league. You're okay with just being within touching distance.
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We'll never win the league because one of our supporters posted on an Internet message board that there isn't much difference between second and third. Right.

I believe I also called it an "awful way to end the season". In than same post you quoted in fact. But I guess it's just far easier to ignore that.
 
BigDub said:
We'll never win the league because one of our supporters posted on an Internet message board that there isn't much difference between second and third. Right.

I believe I also called it an "awful way to end the season". In than same post you quoted in fact. But I guess it's just far easier to ignore that.
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No I mean that mentality seems to resonate from your team.
 
Billy Blaggs said:
No I mean that mentality seems to resonate from your team.
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So you're saying that our mentality is that we don't care if we finish second or third? I don't agree....think Poch has improved our mentality greatly and will continue to do so. Was just saying that in the end, in terms of what you get as a result, there isn't much difference. But ok.

Anyways, we crumbled last season due to exhaustion stemming from a lack of depth. At least that's my option. The performances were poor and I think fatigue played a major role in that.
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
Erm...
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Ramsey's best season was statistically better than delle last season and better performance wise. Also ramsey had a far better Euros then delle who was awful.

Monreal has been better than Rose easily. If Monreal declines due to age this year you may have an argument next year.

Xhaka is a far better all around footballer than Dier. If you want to wave the lame "he hasn't done it in the PL yet" flag fine but I'll remember come end of the season who was clearly better.
 
BigDub said:
So you're saying that our mentality is that we don't care if we finish second or third? I don't agree....think Poch has improved our mentality greatly and will continue to do so. Was just saying that in the end, in terms of what you get as a result, there isn't much difference. But ok.

Anyways, we crumbled last season due to exhaustion stemming from a lack of depth. At least that's my option. The performances were poor and I think fatigue played a major role in that.
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You just said apart from finishing below Arsenal there'snot much difference .
 
Are these Spurs fans the most annoying up their own arses on the forum. For a club that's done absolutley nothing apart from totally underwhelming is nothing short of laughable. I actually like the Liverpool fans on this forum a bit more today. At least they actually win shit from time to time.
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
Nah, we've been way more Spursy in the past. It was way more Spursy for example, when we finished 4th after having a 10 point lead over Arsenal. This didn't feel like that, it was something a bit different.

We only really collapsed when there was nothing to play for this season, after the draw to Chelsea. Usually, doing a Spurs would mean crapping ourselves when we're close to winning something. This was just a failure to motivate the players after we dropped out of the title race, which if anything is worse. Despite our incredible season, the players should be ashamed of themselves for their end of season displays.
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You fecked up with WBA at home. Keep telling you this!
 
Billy Blaggs said:
You just said apart from finishing below Arsenal there'snot much difference .
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Sorry for not being explicit enough. I meant in terms of what you get in the end (i.e automatic CL group stages), there isn't much difference (as I clarified in the post you quoted). Of course ending up below Arsenal is awful. It would've been awful if it were any other team too considering the position we were. But especially them. Again, though, I already said this.

Billy Blaggs said:
Are these Spurs fans the most annoying up their own arses on the forum. For a club that's done absolutley nothing apart from totally underwhelming is nothing short of laughable. I actually like the Liverpool fans on this forum a bit more today. At least they actually win shit from time to time.
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Given our recent interaction I assume you're talking about me. Aside from trying to have a lively debate and defend my team (crazy, i know) I'm not sure what I've done to upset you so badly. No worries...I'll move on.
 
Vicar of Dibbly said:
World class players are not an absolute necessity. How many did Leicester have last season? There have been other success stories by teams without World class players. It's about having a team, just because players are generally rated as "World class" doesn't mean they will make a good team. I remember Alf Ramsay when he was building the 1966 World cup team, in a press conference the hacks were having a go at him as to why he wasn't selecting players x,y,z. His reply was, "I don't want eleven star players, I want a team." Never has a truer word been spoken, football is very much a team game. Incidently, the last two "World class" players Man Utd bought didn't turn out very well did they? Di Maria and Falcao. You could probably include Schweinsteiger in that as well. It's not about spending hundreds of millions on "World class" players, it's about having the right players that fit together as a team.
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That would be relevant if the likes of Leicester City won the league every year or so. It was the biggest shock in the history of world football, something you neglect to mention!
 
BigDub said:
Sorry for not being explicit enough. I meant in terms of what you get in the end (i.e automatic CL group stages), there isn't much difference (as I clarified in the post you quoted). Of course ending up below Arsenal is awful. It would've been awful if it were any other team too considering the position we were. But especially them. Again, though, I already said this.


Given our recent interaction I assume you're talking about me. Aside from trying to have a lively debate and defend my team (crazy, i know) I'm not sure what I've done to upset you so badly. No worries...I'll move on.
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No mate. Your post count doesn't put you into the category.
Everyone's favorite Spurs fan is who I was referring to. You're not even the Robin to his batman. I was in no way talkng about you .
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
Go make a thread on Southampton then. I think they've been under appreciated so it would be good if you did.
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I don't think I need to. Some deluded Soton fan will do it if they finish in the top 4 once in a decade saying how they are the most successful club.
 
NK86 said:
I don't think I need to. Some deluded Soton fan will do it if they finish in the top 4 once in a decade saying how they are the most successful club.
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And masquerade it as a thread to discuss top 4 players in the league for every position.
 
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