You are grossly misinformed sir. The stadium isn't costing anywhere near 675 million. That figure includes shops, houses, a hotel and other facilities. The whole area is being re-developed, it's far from just a stadium and spurs will of course re-coup a large chunk of the cost by selling the other properties.
Spurs XI: name 4 better Prem players in each position?
- Thread starter GlastonSpur
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United generate far more revenue than Spurs, regardless of stadium costs. Even if we weren't building a stadium we would never spend that much money without having sold a player, as with the Bale situation.
All I'm saying is right now, on the pitch, Spurs are a lot more successful than United when you consider how much financial power you can muster. Not to mention the fact you can attract a higher calibre of player due to the size of your club, meaning you are favourites to sign a majority of players, whereas we are just another option.
What reality is that? United finishing ahead of Spurs all but two times in the last two and a half decades!
We're talking about the recent United, the one we've seen since Fergie retired.
And as I've already stressed - the expectations for Spurs compared to United are very different, and rightly so given your financial muscle.
By "right now" you mean the last season?
Get 5 goals and 9 assists in the league from a wide position, whilst sacrificing attacking output in favour of crucial work rate down our right hand side. In the process scoring some wonderful goals and consistently being one of our best performers in big matches.
To be fair mate, Lamela is pretty average. Spurs have some very good players, objectively speaking. Lamela I do not believe is one of them.
I mean in the last 2 seasons. You may have finished ahead of us the season before, but you spent a lot more than us getting there. As I've already stated, just because you've finished ahead of us doesn't mean you've had a more successful season.
It's like saying that because Chelsea finished ahead of Bournemouth, they had a better season. It's all relative. Our expectations are completely different. We could never attract the likes of Pogba and Ibra and would never pay their wages even if we could.
Ok, let us compare the last two seasons then since you have had Poch only for that time.
Once we finished 6 points ahead, while another time 4 points behind.
I agree the expectations and financial muscle are not comparable but despite that there is hardly anything to choose from. We have, at least on paper, recruited very well and improved some crucial positions with excellent players. You have not done as much. So why should United fans be termed arrogant or blind if they expect us to finish above Spurs next season.
What do you mean by more successful? Who would you say had a better season last time out? We won the FA cup, you got champions league... Pretty close, wouldn't you say?
I respectively disagree, but you're entitled to that opinion. What you're saying would be accurate if discussing the Lamela we saw in the first 2 seasons, but last year he really started to show his ability. He was also exceptional at Roma, his talent has always been there.
Yes pretty close, but that's the point, it shouldn't be close with the money you have spent compared to what spurs have spent. Something is wrong there wouldn't you say?
We finished 3rd in the league, you finished 5th having spent a lot more money than us. Not to mention the fact that before spending that money, you were already better than us the season before.
The FA cup is a sideshow these days. It's sad to say, but it's not a major trophy. Would I want Spurs to win it? Of course, I'd be delighted to actually get some silverware, but in the context of modern football, getting Champions League football is far more important to a club than winning the FA Cup.
Then Soton are way better than Spurs, having had to sell their star players. Your logic is so contorted that it is bordering on stupid. I am sure Barca fans feel that they are less successful than Sevilla since they spent way more than them.
He's such a good winger that your manager doesn't rate him enough to let him attack, is that actually your argument? He's so far away from the best wingers in this league.
I've isolated the above phrases to show the biased points in your post.
1) Rose and Walker have "not much space to improve", yet Valencia, who is 31 years old (5 years older than either Walker or Rose), can apparently improve to be as good as them
2) "Smalling can easily match Alderweireld". Well, maybe, but he's yet to do so, and "can" doesn't necessarily mean "will".
3) "Kane ... not making huge steps"
Well, I guess so ... unless winning the Golden Boot and scoring 59 goals in the last two seasons counts as "not making huge steps"4) "Ibra .... he's not going to score less than Kane". Want to bet?
5) Mata is "comfortably on par or better than [Eriksen]". Last season Eriksen in the league had 6 goals and 13 assists. Mata in the league had 6 goals and only 5 assists in almost the same amount of playing time. His stats rating on Who Scored was 6.8 compared to Eriksen's 7.45.
Yes, when he signed I thought you'd got yourself a gem, as he proved to be in Italy, but he's been largely rubbish. I don't think he was particularly inspiring last season, either. Better, yes, but not even close to the level I imagine most Spurs fans hoped for.
What do you mean? Are Spurs not a big club? Some mentality you've got. Sure, we've made big mistakes since fergies departure. Arguably the greatest manager of all time, spending almost three decades with us, stepped down. Is it a huge shock that we've gone downhill since? Relative turmoil was surely to be expected. However, those wrongs should be corrected soon enough. If in 5 years, we are still finishing below Spurs, then yes, something is wrong. At the moment, I'd say the signs are looking up. So no, nothing is wrong. But please, continue criticising a club for spending a lot of money, when it has legitimately earned that money by being the best club in England.
Oh dear. Yeah, 5 goals and 9 assists really shows that he doesn't 'let him attack'.
Some players are just more willing to work hard for the team, Lamela is one of them. It's nothing to do with how highly he's rated. Other players in our team couldn't offer what he does, it's about balance. That's why Jose loved Willian, he offered similar attributes.
My logic is stupid because I understand that clubs have differing expectations
The point is that you've spent a truck load of money to be very close to us in the last 2 seasons. That's not success. We've spent comparatively very little to achieve similar results.
Southampton have done absolutely brilliantly considering how much they spend, who would disagree? I have a lot of respect for them as a club and think they went under the radar last season despite doing very well. It's not about who's 'better' it's about who has maximised their success when considering how much they've been able to spend.
Its going to cost £675-750mil to build the whole thing according to KPMG.
Around £400million will be going towards the stadium.
Huge money when you consider they could have built it in the mid 90s for a fraction of that.
Complete lack of vision.
Also with Brexit the commercial side of the project must be in serious doubt. Will Spurs borrow huge amounts to fund commercial projects that could see them lose money?
You're not wrong, that's a pretty biased post. Ive never seen you acknowledge the merits in someone else's opposing argument, however.I've isolated the above phrases to show the biased points in your post.
1) Rose and Walker have "not much space to improve", yet Valencia, who is 31 years old (5 years older than either Walker or Rose), can apparently improve to be as good as them
2) "Smalling can easily match Alderweireld". Well, maybe, but he's yet to do so, and "can" doesn't necessarily mean "will".
3) "Kane ... not making huge steps"
4) "Ibra .... he's not going to score less than Kane". Want to bet?
5) Mata is "comfortably on par or better than [Eriksen]". Last season Eriksen in the league had 6 goals and 13 assists. Mata in the league had 6 goals and only 5 assists in almost the same amount of playing time. His stats rating on Who Scored was 6.8 compared to Eriksen's 7.45.
We're discussing the here-and-now, not 25 years ago.
As for the reality I mentioned, I could easily go back and pick out hundreds of posts from United fans that - at the time they signed or made their first few appearances - wildly over-rated many of the new signings/new players joining the squad, yet many of them have now, after reality has bitten, been discarded in favour of the next shiny new toy.
Yes, we are a big club. Are we anywhere near as big as United? Of course not. You're one of the biggest in the world. Of course you have higher expectations, what is so hard to understand about that? It's not a poor mentality from our fans to not expect to always be challenging you, it's being rational.
I'm not criticising you for spending that money, and nor is he. You earned it and you have a right to spend it as you please. I'm criticising what you've achieved despite that spending.
Except...he's actually much better at everything. Quicker, stronger, better tackler, better free kick taker, better dribbler, better passer...neither of them is much cop at finishing.
Lamela isn't even anywhere near as good as Eriksen, never mind the best wingers in the league - Hazard, Sanchez, De Bruyne, Martial, Mahrez etc.
Where did I criticise spending money? Not at all, it's not the spending it's the way it's been spent. After spending the huge amount van Gaal spent last summer, compared to what spurs spent, I'm sure you would expect Man Utd to finish above spurs. They didn't. That doesn't suggest to you that something is wrong? Ok then.
Lamela: 5 goals, 9 assists in 28 games.
Willian: 5 goals 6 assists in 32 games.
A significant portion of Willian's goals also came from his set-piece ability. So this player, who's better at everything, is somehow managing an inferior output. Strange how Lamela is so much worse, yet performing better.
Nobody's putting Lamela up there with the likes of Hazard or De Bruyne. Nobody. Of course he's not as good as them. That doesn't mean he's not a good winger though and it doesn't make him an average player.
Then again, you've got Lingard as a better player, a guy who got 4 goals and 1 assists in the league. You've also got a player who scored 3 goals in the Championship marked down as better, so there's a clear agenda here.
Good team. Might make top 4.
No, the fact that you consider Spurs as more successful despite United finishing above them a couple of seasons back because of 'different expectations' is what I consider silly.My logic is stupid because I understand that clubs have differing expectations
The point is that you've spent a truck load of money to be very close to us in the last 2 seasons. That's not success. We've spent comparatively very little to achieve similar results.
Southampton have done absolutely brilliantly considering how much they spend, who would disagree? I have a lot of respect for them as a club and think they went under the radar last season despite doing very well. It's not about who's 'better' it's about who has maximised their success when considering how much they've been able to spend.
As for the same logic, do you consider Soton to be more successful than you last season as many thought they would struggle after selling some of their better players again?
Yes exactly, that's what I said. But that isn't what you said originally is it.
We finished one place behind you despite spending a fraction of the amount. You'd brought in the likes of Falcao and Di Maria and also signed Herrera, Blind, Shaw and Rojo. We on the other hand had signed Davies, Fazio, Alli (and loaned him out), Stambouli, Vorm and Dier. A fraction of your spending.
So yes, I consider it more successful. As for Southampton, yes they probably did have a better season than us when considering their situation. They may not have been talked about as much, but they did exceptionally well to recover despite selling the core of their side. They finished 7 points behind us in the end, it was very impressive from them indeed.
Perhaps, then, you need to shadow my posts even more obsessively than so far in the short time since you popped up and started posting.
I'm obsessed with you Glaston, deal with it.
Spurs have got a great squad of players but they lack any real experience or a genuine world class individual. This showed when they bottled the PL last season and behaved so appallingly against Chelsea.
They have a the best functioning pair of CB's and CM's in Alderweireld/Vertonghen and Dier/Dembele but the rest of the positions are no better than anything else in the PL.
Kane and Alli were woeful in the European Championships and really highlighted their deficiencies at the top level. I'm sure they'll improve with experience but I'm not seeing them as the best in their positions in the PL let alone anywhere else.
They have a the best functioning pair of CB's and CM's in Alderweireld/Vertonghen and Dier/Dembele but the rest of the positions are no better than anything else in the PL.
Kane and Alli were woeful in the European Championships and really highlighted their deficiencies at the top level. I'm sure they'll improve with experience but I'm not seeing them as the best in their positions in the PL let alone anywhere else.
Those stats are for starts not appearances plus you've ignored his champions league goals for some reason. 11 goals in all comps I think. But anyway.
Willian got that return in a shocking Chelsea side that largely couldn't be arsed and where the main striker had a shocker for most of the season. Lamela played in a team that should have won the league easily but for a lack of bottle to rival Arsenal's.
Thanks for the response. You seem to have taken my post which you quoted as some kind of direct comparison between the squads of United and Spurs, which it really wasn't.
As for your opinion that none of Spurs' players will get any better, fair enough you're entitled to it. But you haven't really provided any reasons other than "I don't think they'll get any better" or "they're at their peak". Which is hardly substantive.
You also seem "sure" of a helluva lot of things. That all of you're signings will be massive hits, that Mourinho will be worth at least 15 points, that you'll finish above Spurs, that Mata is better than Eriksen, that Kane won't score more than Ibra, that Rashford will bang in the goals, that you will have the league's best defense. If everything you seem to be "sure" of does indeed come true you lot will probably never draw a match, let alone lose one! I appreciate you sharing all of these opinions, but there is very little evidence or reasoning to support them...just that you're "sure" they'll be so.
Yeah I didn't think this would be the case when I started posting a little while back. Quickly finding out that was an incorrect assumption.
I tend to think it's just cabin fever setting in. Really the season can't get here soon enough.
Okay, we give up, Spud fans. You guys are by far the best in the league. That is why you walked the easiest PL in history of man last year, and didn't finish behind Arsenal, as usual.
Well Soton has been better than you both seasons then. So basically Spurs have not been more successful than Soton using that logic. Let that sink in.
Anyone for a game of straw-clutching ?Lamela didn't play in the Champions League and I'm not going to compare Lamela's Europa stats, so that's why it's been left out. It's not a fair comparison. They both play in the same league so it's the most fair way to compare them.
So, do you want to compare their stats when they both played for successful sides? Because Willian got 2 goals and 3 assists in the league when Chelsea won it. What a player.
Arsenal should have won the league last season, they had the best side out of the teams that didn't collapse. The only thing we arguably bottled was finishing 2nd, not the title, because our collapse happened after we drew to Chelsea at Stamford Bridge.
@BigDub cabin fever indeed, bring the fecking season on. Where Spurs will no doubt finish 5th.
I jest.
I jest.