Lamela (right AM): Mahrez, Mkhitaryan, Sanchez, Willian, De Bruyne, Sterling, Sané, Mané, Albrighton, Firmino, Coutinho, Iheanacho, Lingard, Schlupp, ElMohamady
City alone have 4.
City alone have 4.
Spurs XI: name 4 better Prem players in each position?
- Thread starter GlastonSpur
- Start date
Costly typo.Albrighton, Ihenacho, Lingard, Schlupp (who's a LB/LM?) and Elmohammady. Some bad shouts in there. I'd have Lamela over Sterling, Sane, Mane and Firmino as well.
Some absolute shockers here. Not sure what is worse, having Rashford over the league's top scorer or choosing Kouyate/Noble over Dier and Dembele.
No chancing Smalling/Bailly is better than Alderweireld/Vertonghen either.
I think the value in Pocchetino's work is building a very functional team. On paper I don't think it's that good, but the performance is always greater than the sum of its parts.
Kane is (individually) over rated. Eriksen is a tidy player with a mean free kick, but nothing special IMO. Lamela is distinctly average. Dier and Dembele are a very functional pair, but I wouldn't want to sign either as an individual, and the full backs are average.
The quality of the squad is decent, but like all good managers, what he's done is build a team that works. Similar to what Simeone has done at Atletico, although not as good; because I don't rate half of AM's players as highly as the Caf do. Instead seeing them as over performing in a very well drilled team.
Kane is (individually) over rated. Eriksen is a tidy player with a mean free kick, but nothing special IMO. Lamela is distinctly average. Dier and Dembele are a very functional pair, but I wouldn't want to sign either as an individual, and the full backs are average.
The quality of the squad is decent, but like all good managers, what he's done is build a team that works. Similar to what Simeone has done at Atletico, although not as good; because I don't rate half of AM's players as highly as the Caf do. Instead seeing them as over performing in a very well drilled team.
I think spurs have arguably the most well-rounded first 11, with no obvious weaknesses. However I would also say that they only have 1 player who'd be first-in-class in their position in the league; Alderweireld.
As the thread title hints at Spurs have a lot of top 4 in class players, such as Lloris, Kane, Eriksen, Dembele, Dier etc. without having any real stand out absolute worldies. Is that enough to win the League? I'm not sure, this is the season if Spurs are going to do it though.
Spurs/Arsenal are the most settled teams this coming season, not lost any key players (not really added many starters either though), same manager, coming of the back of good seasons - Leicester will struggle to repeat & have lost Kante already, City are in the process of a big rebuild with a new manager, Chelsea are a question mark for me (could either pick up from 2 years ago & win the league with no Europe, or struggle along like last season), United again new manager & a smaller rebuild, Liverpool aren't quite good enough in terms of personnel for me...
So if Spurs are to do it, this is their golden chance as I see it. Hardest season to predict the top 4 in recent years for me.
As the thread title hints at Spurs have a lot of top 4 in class players, such as Lloris, Kane, Eriksen, Dembele, Dier etc. without having any real stand out absolute worldies. Is that enough to win the League? I'm not sure, this is the season if Spurs are going to do it though.
Spurs/Arsenal are the most settled teams this coming season, not lost any key players (not really added many starters either though), same manager, coming of the back of good seasons - Leicester will struggle to repeat & have lost Kante already, City are in the process of a big rebuild with a new manager, Chelsea are a question mark for me (could either pick up from 2 years ago & win the league with no Europe, or struggle along like last season), United again new manager & a smaller rebuild, Liverpool aren't quite good enough in terms of personnel for me...
So if Spurs are to do it, this is their golden chance as I see it. Hardest season to predict the top 4 in recent years for me.
The way that Spurs fans here rate their team it's almost as if they won the Premier League last season. You only finished 4 points ahead of us and Man City who were largely crap for most of the season and finished behind Arsenal who were largely crap in the latter half. Sit down.
Ah, the lazy 'they're well organised but average individually' argument, used to describe any team ever that wasn't packed with star names.
Our entire team is nothing special, yet we scored some of the best goals/ played the best football in the league. Poch must be a messiah.
We rate our team as a side who can challenge the top 4 next season, no higher. At least the majority of us.
That doesn't mean we think Lingard is better than Lamela, or Kouyate/Noble superior to Dier/Dembele.
How dare we have the audacity to believe Kane is better than Lukaku. Sheer delusion.
Hey, look at that. You got that thing right in your post. Well done, that's a first.
Smalling/Bailly and Morgan/Huth are both better than Spurs' CBs. 3rd ain't bad though.
Of course they are. I'm sure you've seen loads of Bailly to be making that assertion.
You've seen enough to say he's not of course.
Wow, that was really clever.
It's funny how wound up some United fans are getting at us for having the audacity to think our players are good. None of us in this thread have made any audacious claims.
Nope, but you're immediately assuming a young defender is going to be better than two established Premier league players.
As of now, our partnership is superior until we see enough of Bailly.
Well, your entire team - on paper - IS nothing special. And Poch is a very good manager. The fact he's molded a team so well explains the performances. So you haven't really refuted anything I've said. Just repeated it and added sarcasm.
The other thing you've added is a cheeky adjective to describe an opinion; "lazy". An effort to discredit it. Yet, the fact Spurs' team isn't filled with stars - your own admission - would suggest that individually they aren't that highly rated, and it is the sum of the parts, rather than the individual pieces which holds the real value. I'd only take probably two Spurs players at United. But as a team, would say they are better right now.
How do you know Smalling/Bailly are better? You've never seen them play together in the PL. OH, I see, you're just guessing. Ok gotcha.
Well it's a team game isn't it? The team is what matters, the individuals don't. OH, and one more thing, football is not played on paper, it's played on grass.
Maybe there's a reason for getting at you and perhaps that reason is this arrogance.
well played
Vertonghen is bang average. Bailly's not.
Just because you've capitalised IS doesn't make it true. Our team IS NOT nothing special.
If you think Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Lamela, Alderweireld, Lloris and Dembele are average, there's very little I can say or do to convince you otherwise. The stats prove you wrong, most football players and managers disagree. What other argument is there to put forward?
Just because we're better than the sum of our parts, doesn't dismiss the skill of our individuals entirely. You don't become top scorer simply due to a well organised side, or score a goal like Alli did at Palace. Or produce some of the saves Lloris did, or game saving tackles like Alderweireld. Dembele didn't regularly glide through midfield because of 'organisation'.
It's lazy because it assumes you can't be well organised and have good players. Our team is far from perfect, but we have some very gifted individuals, some of which have great potential.
What exactly did Lamela do to not be classed as average? One of the most nothing players I've seen in this league without being terrible. Touch of the Liam Miller about him.
(1) That's a double negative.
(2) It doesn't assume that at all. In fact there are no assumptions. Only pointed opinions. I say Spurs have lots of good players, but very few special ones. This is specific to Spurs. That the team is greater than the sum of its parts.
I'm not really sure why this gets you so bent out of shape. I'm repeatedly saying that Spurs are a good team. Currently better than United, but that's not enough apparently. You need acknowledgement of the individual genius of your players. Well you're not going to get it, because I just don't see it.
The sobering fact for you, is that this should be a good thing. Whenever Spurs do unearth or develop a true star, he gets snapped up by a bigger club. Of the list you gave, Lloris, Delli Alli and Kane are real quality. Not super star quality but high quality. All 3 could be on the radar of bigger clubs.
I guess I should expect a Spurs fan on a United forum to be a little over zealous.
I'd like to react:
Rose and Walker as much as I quite rate them they are playing at their peak and potential, not much space to improve, they can't exceed their potential as much as they already had under Poch who certainly pushed them... we have a similar player in Valencia who can be as good as them although limited player but on the other side we have Shaw who will be massive step up from whoever played on the left hand side last year, if he avoids the first two months without any hamstring injury then he might be declared as prone to injury as any other player from Poch group and Mourinho hardly has any injured palyers... he's massive massive step from what we have last year.
Alderweireld and Vertonghen is a great pairing but Smalling can easily match Alderweireld in overall ability and we will see how Bailly turns out, it's a different setup of CB's but defensive wise with certainly higher potential, considering that Mourinho will get his team play much better than Van Gaal and will implement better defensive organization at the back. I think we will have the best defense next year with Spurs, there will not be a huge difference in conceded goals between the teams, ie not more than 2 imo..
halfway through just realized it would take too much time to analyze in detail all players, all I wanted to say is that I don't think there is much space for improvement for some spurs players and their limited potentials... the players I can see who can get dramatically better are Alli and maybe Lamela who I think could struggle a bit next year to step up. staying on the same level in and out of the team. Dembele is playing at his peak, Kane is still young but he's one of those players consistently improving not making huge steps, although I rate him very highly I don't think he's nowehere near aguero level potential or the top top bracket, he's just a great striker for English league who might score so monay goals without being really spectacular throughout his career. Ibra will have a great impact and is a huge upgrade on what we had last season, he's not going to score less than Kane and than we have Rashford who will bang goals too, didn't have a single bad game and you just know he will get better living on the hype, learning from Ibra.. Jansenn is a big question mark, so many attackers failed in last few years, I don't think he will make a huge impact, playing with two strikers would not be the best option imo... and Njie and that asian guy if I havent missed something they are quite average squad options..
Erricksen I don't see stepping up unless he plays centrally and in different system.. Mata is comfortably on par or better than him
from the players we added will have added - Mickytaryan and Pogba would certainly start for Spurs and will mean big boost for us..
and there is Martial who is also comfortably better than Lamela and once he get a rest he will start to perform again, I am sure about it..
all in all I can't see any huge improvement from Spurs who finished only 4 points behind United last season in very underwhelming season which was for Spurs one of the best ones.. I am sure that Mourinho himsel will get players perform much better and earn us at least 15 more points even in his first season...
I am also sure we will finish above Spurs next year who might fight with Liverpool, whom I expect to step up this year, Leicester and possibly with one of the minor clubs fight for thw 5th-7th place... watch how the champions league football alone affects your performances..
feck it, who cares.
There's been more arrogance from United fans than vice versa. You've got posters saying that Rashford is better than Kane, Lingard is better than Lamela and Bailly is better than Vertonghen.
Spurs had their best season in decades and still finished only four points ahead of a United team that was as bleak as a Siberian winter. Why their fans overrate their club so much I'll never know.
Cool.
So Alli and Kane aren't special players? I don't need acknowledgement of anything, I'm just struggling to understand what you're getting at. If you're trying to say that we're not packed full of galatico level players, then I completely agree, but that's not how your original post came off. It sounded like you believed our players were nothing more than average.
Over zealous? It's a thread about Spurs players in comparison to the rest of the league, I'm just arguing the point that our players are a match for most sides. That's all. I'm not claiming it's a title winning side, or that we're world-class in every position, just that we have some very good players.
If we were in here shouting about how world class our players are, and how we're going to smash the league, you'd have a point. The truth is, all we have said is that we have players that can compete with the best in the league and have a good shot at top 4. We're getting shouted down for daring to praise our own players and not silently agree when they're labelled average.
If anything, it's the United fans who are overrating their players and assuming they'll finish ahead of us.
Mate, it's just the usual stuff from some United fans ... most of their new signings or new players to their squad are hailed as world class, or potential world class, or close to it, even before many of them have even kicked a ball in the Prem. And then reality bites. The cycle continues, Rinse and repeat.
Alright then, I'll take your opinion on Vertonghen's ability with a pinch of salt though considering you think Lingard & Elmohamady are better than Lamela.
Spurs have been like this for 54 years.
We have been like this for 3 years.
In fact in the last three years we have won more and finished in the top 4 the same amount of times as Spurs.
And spent an enormous amount of money to do so. You can't compare Spurs and United's objectives, you spend hundreds of millions more than we do on new players and managers, not to mention far more on wages. For what we spend, we are performing well. For what you spend, you are performing poorly.
We build a stadium on the cheap in the 90s when construction costs were low.
Spurs are badly managed and didnt expand when costs where cheap. Now they have to spent £675million on a stadium min.
If Spurs had any vision in the mid 90s they could spent a lot more now.