Southport knife attack - 3 children dead, 8 children and 2 adults injured

decorativeed said:
Any further context to that which isn't in that report? I've no idea how close the location and timing of it was to the vigil.
Click to expand...

The independent described it as "yards away" and the timings put it during the vigil.

I have no idea whether it was actually yards away though.
 
Longshanks said:
Iv heard the same, not sure if it's true or not though.

This has been brewing for a while though, especially on the back of harehills and the reaction to the Manchester Airport incident and the recent election.

Just needed the right spark to ignite it, and this horrific incident in Southport was the perfect excuse it seems.

Trouble brewing I reckon, could be choppy waters ahead.
Click to expand...
The spark isn't the events themselves though is it, as horrific as it is. It's the way it's been framed by the right wing commentators.
 
F-Red said:
It’s about 300m from the vigil and the arrest was as the vigil was being observed.
Click to expand...
Right, so I've seen the video going around of the police arresting an Asian guy with the comment saying its from that incident last night, but it's clearly not anywhere on Eastbank Street. God knows what it's actually footage of, as I can't make out any details from the signage on the street.
 
decorativeed said:
Right, so I've seen the video going around of the police arresting an Asian guy with the comment saying its from that incident last night, but it's clearly not anywhere on Eastbank Street. God knows what it's actually footage of, as I can't make out any details from the signage on the street.
Click to expand...
It’s just off Eastbank Street, on Princes Street right outside the PA Audio store. It’s actually probably closer than 300m tbh.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Surely you’re asking rhetorical questions here? We know enough about human biology and societal norms to know exactly why men are more likely to commit violent acts than women. Plus these norms are much more entrenched in conservative religious societies, which explains why Muslim women are probably even less likely to be violent than someone without a religious background.

Reversing a trend which goes back literally thousands of years is going to be infinitely harder than trying to address other, more recently established, factors in what happened.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying and understand your point about Muslim women. Regarding your point about human biology, we (as people/society, I mean) can't simply say it's down to biology and then leave it there. That's a bit like holding our hands up and saying that "boys will be boys" and leaving it. As far as I'm aware, I don't think we have been told what the motives were of this person. It just seems to be the case that more work needs to be done identifying all of the factors regarding why people (in this case, predominantly men) are driven to committing such acts. I say this as in us as a society, a generation, people who work with young people, people in positions of power who can make a difference, social workers, and so on.

The work has to be done or else it's a slippery slope. When you look at the events that took place yesterday, these are also acts which are just downright unacceptable. Murder is unacceptable. Deliberately injuring police officers is unacceptable, and all of those actions leading up to that. I know all of this is easier said than done and it takes years of work, years of funding, years of work with younger people to get them on the right path early.

Dr. Dwayne said:
Here is an interesting study. I'm sure it has some flaws but it's worth a skim.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3969807/
Click to expand...

Cheers for this. I'll take a look at it.
 
F-Red said:
It’s just off Eastbank Street, on Princes Street right outside the PA Audio store. It’s actually probably closer than 300m tbh.
Click to expand...
So it is, yeah. I wonder why the report said it was on the other street? Is this definitely the same incident?
 
F-Red said:
Yes it’s the exact same incident.
Click to expand...
It's an odd one to look at. I wonder how they knew he was carrying, given the numbers of people in the area?

A lot of people online are also conflating the incident with the one in Southend, and saying people we carrying machetes.
 
decorativeed said:
It's an odd one to look at. I wonder how they knew he was carrying, given the numbers of people in the area?

A lot of people online are also conflating the incident with the one in Southend, and saying people we carrying machetes.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by an odd one to look at? I'm guessing the police had intelligence and acted on the intelligence and made an arrest. I'm sure his motives will become clearer soon.

As for the incident, it just highlights the morons that struggle with the UK geography. Similar those who get Stockport confused with Southport.
 
F-Red said:
What do you mean by an odd one to look at? I'm guessing the police had intelligence and acted on the intelligence and made an arrest. I'm sure his motives will become clearer soon.

As for the incident, it just highlights the morons that struggle with the UK geography. Similar those who get Stockport confused with Southport.
Click to expand...
Just that. I wonder what the intel was on this guy.

I think one report says he was from Manchester, living nearby and also on parole. So I suppose they may have been tracking him for a while.
 
decorativeed said:
Just that. I wonder what the intel was on this guy.

I think one report says he was from Manchester, living nearby and also on parole. So I suppose they may have been tracking him for a while.
Click to expand...
They had reports from the public that they'd seen him with a knife, that was the intel.

I don't know if you've read the article from Merseyside Police? The guy is from Standish in Wigan, so no idea what he was doing all the way over in Southport on that evening with a knife.
 
F-Red said:
They had reports from the public that they'd seen him with a knife, that was the intel.

I don't know if you've read the article from Merseyside Police? The guy is from Standish in Wigan, so no idea what he was doing all the way over in Southport on that evening with a knife.
Click to expand...
Well my train line runs from Stalybridge via Manchester and Wigan to Southport. I'm guessing he jumped on that somewhere. The train station is very close to where he was caught.
 
Withnail said:
They seemed to have disappeared since being asked to clarify what the insinuation was by a few people.

Agree on the second point. It was the same in Ireland when there was a similar incident and it was used an excuse to riot. Sure look at all the videos form yesterday they're all laughing and having a great time fighting the cops. They're certainly don't seem to be upset or angry over the tragedy. And I've heard reports that most of those rioting came in from other areas, destroying the place is also really helpful up the locals, which is par for the course with these right wing mobs.
Click to expand...

Can you imagine the shock and hurt that community was in and then these baffoons descended.

Today the local community was cleaning up and rebuilding.

This riot took focus away from the victims and thier families and more importantly who did the attack and why. The thought of it sends chills through any normal person. Tbh I was disappointed with some work colleagues making jokes yesterday. They both have a dark sense of humour and have been known to rely on it as a mental coping strategy but it still seemed wrong.

The focus should be on what can be done to prevent it happening again, like it was after Dunblane.
 
Thick racist bastards in being thick racist bastards shocker.
Superden said:
heard quite a few comments on the media today about the police needing to release more information, more quickly, to avoid social media speculation etc - in this case and in the Nicola Bulley one for example.
why the feck should they.
cant people / media organisations just be patient and let the police get on with their job. news has now become like transfer gossip. and its driven purely by financial greed, which is fine when its comes to who we are signing as our new LB, but when people proclaim themselves as being some kind of modern knights in shining armour, when in fact they are just grifters, then it stinks. (actual knights were more often than not grifters too, cf the knights templar fortune).
Click to expand...

Understand your point, but the problem here is that the racist thick cnuts can spread a lie like wildfire, and other racist thick cnuts will believe it...so there is a case for a faster release of info once available...BUT, there is now also a stronger case for some form of stronger ID needed for social media accounts, so if you have got a rogue accounts, they need to found out.
 
Tibs said:
Thick racist bastards in being thick racist bastards shocker.


Understand your point, but the problem here is that the racist thick cnuts can spread a lie like wildfire, and other racist thick cnuts will believe it...so there is a case for a faster release of info once available...BUT, there is now also a stronger case for some form of stronger ID needed for social media accounts, so if you have got a rogue accounts, they need to found out.
Click to expand...

And quite often most of them don't care if it's true or not.. Look at the videos, they're all laughing and joking as they destroy the locality and injure the police. They couldn't give two fecks about the victims or the local community.
 
Long rambling post about me possibly being a conspiracy theorist incoming! I've spent too much time on Twitter since the attack happened in truth. Would like to think I didn't or don't believe a load of bollocks but conspiracy theorists always think they're privvy to special information don't they?

Either way it's been interesting to watch things spread around that I'm sure weren't true and what the media reports as well.

Mentioned it yesterday, but I believe I knew the identity of, or an approximation of who the attacker was on the night it happened. There was a Twitter user who claimed to have lived opposite the attacker and that it was his doorbell footage that was featured on ITV News of the attacker pacing outside his own home wearing a green hoodie. He also added photos taken from his bedroom window of the police at what he said was the attackers house later as proof of sorts when people didn't believe the footage came from him as he was being accused of making things up for attention. I simply stumbled upon this when hitting the trending word "Southport" on Twitter on Monday evening.

As I read on, he was talking about how shocked he was, that he thought they were a nice family etc. At that point the attacker's Rwandan family background had been revealed in the mainstream and he said he didn't even realise his father was from another country as he had no strong accent. He spoke of his father's profession, and also mentioned that the attacker has a disabled brother.

The guy behind the Twitter account said he wouldn't be stupid enough to reveal the attacker's name but stated he had an English sounding first name. When someone presented a pleasant local online news article to him about a man who was originally from Rwanda, had previously lived in Cardiff and was currently living in Southport asking if he was the attacker's father he confirmed that it was. Ashamedly I started digging around and found another online article about a disabled young man with the same last name from Southport.

At this point I saw that a very niche "news" website had started to report that the attacker was a Muslim with an Arabic sounding name, which completely contradicted what I'd previously been reading. It was mad to watch that rumour spread like wildfire and people repeat it with no evidence. I think some still are actually! It was later revealed that it actually means something like "Where is my apartment?" in Arabic, and that the site had been trolled or was trolling. Also suggestions that the site may have something to do with Russia with the insuation that they were trying to cause anti-Muslim sentiment in the UK as a form of disruption. Not sure where that one went in the end.

Before the police or news media had revealed the attacker's Rwandan background they first said he was originally from Cardiff and no more. They also said they didn't believe it was related to terrorism but that didn't stop people speculating that it was and many were assuming the attacker was a Muslim. It was interesting that they later put out the Rwanda detail and after they did others were digging up the religious demographic stats of Rwanda, along with the conclusion that it was unlikely to be Islamic terrorism. Still didn't stop some saying he could have converted, and that's probably still the assumption of some.

It did make me wonder if they revealed his background to try and calm things down a little and try to quell Islamophobia after they saw how things were going. Another possible reason is that they could have simply added that detail after finding out themselves, not being aware at first. Either is possible.

When I went to sleep on Monday the fake attacker's name was going around a lot, and there were just 2 tweets on the whole of twitter stating the same last name I'd seen. I searched the name again on Twitter yesterday and it was slowly starting to get out there. Someone had pieced together the address of the attacker from the news footage or so they claimed and they'd looked up the residents on 192.com with proof. Same last name I'd seen from the article about his father.

Next time I checked a first name and middle for the attacker was being mentioned too. It fitted in with him having an English sounding name which I'd seen the neighbour mention (well European sounding at least).

More things were emerging. A birth record from Cardiff with the same name matching the attacker's correct year of birth if he is 17, and a mother's last name matching a resident found on the 192.com search. Then there was some online gaming account (I think) claiming it was his in the same name. There was another picture of his brother, this time at university wearing a t-shirt with his name embroidered on it as well as the name of the uni. Quite a lot at this stage. It's at the point where I'm personally convinced.

Still, there was an awful lot of bollocks going round. The fake Arabic name still going around a lot, people claiming he was an asylum seeker when even the mainstream had said he was born in Cardiff, Andrew Tate posting a picture of a much older person being arrested. People hear a rumour and assume it's true without evidence the repeat it. No doubt prejudice plays a part in terms of what they're willing to believe or not. Others just assume shit and say and run with it. There's also the thing where people hear something true or not, but then no correction or update and continue to repeat what they'd heard. Really interesting from a psychological point of view as an observer.

That last paragraph reminds me of something I read on here ages ago after the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse. He was that guy who shot 3 and killed 2 at a BLM protest and was found not guilty on the grounds of self defence. Someone posted that up until the trial they thought the people he shot were black even though it was over a year between the incident and trial. People assume things, and to be fair if someone only reads headlines the media do like to write them in a misleading way on occasion.

Moving on to the riot last night and the reporting of it that a couple of you were talking about in here. I too was aware of people claiming that it was because of an individual being arrested close to the vigil in posession of a knife. I'd seen the video of the supposed arrest, knew it was close to the vigil's location (Princes St) and had seen the police statement. I didn't know if the video matched the police statement or if it could have been from another time.

Do I believe that some people may have been rioting because of that? It's very possible. Having witnessed people online also believing any old crap, or assuming things that were categorically debunked I'd also say there's a good chance most of them had never even heard about it. It is not being mentioned as a possible contributary cause in the media though. That's been very noticeable. Instead they've been talking specifically about fake names, when there were only 2 mentioned and one of them I'm sure is correct due to considerable circumstantial evidence, and other falsehoods such as refugee status of the attacker.

Either way, someone getting arrested close to the vigil would have been no justifiable reason to attempt to attack a mosque that had nothing to do with him. Even if he did attend it, it wouldn't mean the mosque is guilty by association unless there was some proven link of them radicalising attendees. That's brain-dead behaviour.
 
Last edited:
Been charged with 3 counts of murder and 10 counts of attempted murder.

Don't see why they can't reveal his name, the cnut shouldn't see the light of day again.
 
2mufc0 said:
Been charged with 3 counts of murder and 10 counts of attempted murder.

Don't see why they can't reveal his name, the cnut shouldn't see the light of day again.
Click to expand...
under 18 so they can't reveal his name
 
Chipper said:
Long rambling post about me possibly being a conspiracy theorist incoming! I've spent too much time on Twitter since the attack happened in truth. Would like to think I didn't or don't believe a load of bollocks but conspiracy theorists always think they're privvy to special information don't they?

Either way it's been interesting to watch things spread around that I'm sure weren't true and what the media reports as well.

Mentioned it yesterday, but I believe I knew the identity of, or an approximation of who the attacker was on the night it happened. There was a Twitter user who claimed to have lived opposite the attacker and that it was his doorbell footage that was featured on ITV News of the attacker pacing outside his own home wearing a green hoodie. He also added photos taken from his bedroom window of the police at what he said was the attackers house later as proof of sorts when people didn't believe the footage came from him as he was being accused of making things up for attention. I simply stumbled upon this when hitting the trending word "Southport" on Twitter on Monday evening.

As I read on, he was talking about how shocked he was, that he thought they were a nice family etc. At that point the attacker's Rwandan family background had been revealed in the mainstream and he said he didn't even realise his father was from another country as he had no strong accent. He spoke of his father's profession, and also mentioned that the attacker has a disabled brother.

The guy behind the Twitter account said he wouldn't be stupid enough to reveal the attacker's name but stated he had an English sounding first name. When someone presented a pleasant local online news article to him about a man who was originally from Rwanda, had previously lived in Cardiff and was currently living in Southport asking if he was the attacker's father he confirmed that it was. Ashamedly I started digging around and found another online article about a disabled young man with the same last name from Southport.

At this point I saw that a very niche "news" website had started to report that the attacker was a Muslim with an Arabic sounding name, which completely contradicted what I'd previously been reading. It was mad to watch that rumour spread like wildfire and people repeat it with no evidence. I think some still are actually! It was later revealed that it actually means something like "Where is my apartment?" in Arabic, and that the site had been trolled or was trolling. Also suggestions that the site may have something to do with Russia with the insuation that they were trying to cause anti-Muslim sentiment in the UK as a form of disruption. Not sure where that one went in the end.

Before the police or news media had revealed the attacker's Rwandan background they first said he was originally from Cardiff and no more. They also said they didn't believe it was related to terrorism but that didn't stop people speculating that it was and many were assuming the attacker was a Muslim. It was interesting that they later put out the Rwanda detail and after they did others were digging up the religious demographic stats of Rwanda, along with the conclusion that it was unlikely to be Islamic terrorism. Still didn't stop some saying he could have converted, and that's probably still the assumption of some.

It did make me wonder if they revealed his background to try and calm things down a little and try to quell Islamophobia after they saw how things were going. Another possible reason is that they could have simply added that detail after finding out themselves, not being aware at first. Either is possible.

When I went to sleep on Monday the fake attacker's name was going around a lot, and there were just 2 tweets on the whole of twitter stating the same last name I'd seen. I searched the name again on Twitter yesterday and it was slowly starting to get out there. Someone had pieced together the address of the attacker from the news footage or so they claimed and they'd looked up the residents on 192.com with proof. Same last name I'd seen from the article about his father.

Next time I checked a first name and middle for the attacker was being mentioned too. It fitted in with him having an English sounding name which I'd seen the neighbour mention (well European sounding at least).

More things were emerging. A birth record from Cardiff with the same name matching the attacker's correct year of birth if he is 17, and a mother's last name matching a resident found on the 192.com search. Then there was some online gaming account (I think) claiming it was his in the same name. There was another picture of his brother, this time at university wearing a t-shirt with his name embroidered on it as well as the name of the uni. Quite a lot at this stage. It's at the point where I'm personally convinced.

Still, there was an awful lot of bollocks going round. The fake Arabic name still going around a lot, people claiming he was an asylum seeker when even the mainstream had said he was born in Cardiff, Andrew Tate posting a picture of a much older person being arrested. People hear a rumour and assume it's true without evidence the repeat it. No doubt prejudice plays a part in terms of what they're willing to believe or not. Others just assume shit and say and run with it. There's also the thing where people hear something true or not, but then no correction or update and continue to repeat what they'd heard. Really interesting from a psychological point of view as an observer.

That last paragraph reminds me of something I read on here ages ago after the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse. He was that guy who shot 3 and killed 2 at a BLM protest and was found not guilty on the grounds of self defence. Someone posted that up until the trial they thought the people he shot were black even though it was over a year between the incident and trial. People assume things, and to be fair if someone only reads headlines the media do like to write them in a misleading way on occasion.

Moving on to the riot last night and the reporting of it that a couple of you were talking about in here. I too was aware of people claiming that it was because of an individual being arrested close to the vigil in posession of a knife. I'd seen the video of the supposed arrest, knew it was close to the vigil's location (Princes St) and had seen the police statement. I didn't know if the video matched the police statement or if it could have been from another time.

Do I believe that some people may have been rioting because of that? It's very possible. Having witnessed people online also believing any old crap, or assuming things that were categorically debunked I'd also say there's a good chance most of them had never even heard about it. It is not being mentioned as a possible contributary cause in the media though. That's been very noticeable. Instead they've been talking specifically about fake names, when there were only 2 mentioned and one of them I'm sure is correct due to considerable circumstantial evidence, and other falsehoods such as refugee status of the attacker.

Either way, someone getting arrested close to the vigil would have been no justifiable reason to attempt to attack a mosque that had nothing to do with him. Even if he did attend it, it wouldn't mean the mosque is guilty by association unless there was some proven link of them radicalising attendees. That's brain-dead behaviour.
Click to expand...
The guy with the knife.

 
RedTiger said:
The guy with the knife.

Click to expand...


Cheers for that. The state of her and the language she uses. So not only attacking a mosque that he had nothing to do with, but he would have likely been attacking it himself if true.

Still surprising to me it hasn't been focused on as a possible contributary factor as anyone getting arrested round there with a knife would have heightened tensions. Again, the riot would never have been justified whoever he was.
 
Superden said:
The spark isn't the events themselves though is it, as horrific as it is. It's the way it's been framed by the right wing commentators.
Click to expand...

Sure the mis information spread online didn't help, but it did bear all the hallmarks of an islamic extremist style attack.

And with very little official information about the perpetrator released. People will inevitably jump to conclusions.

Tensions are already heightened because of the other events, and I'm not sure how they have been framed? Harehills where am immigrant community rioted and smashed the place up and the police left them to it. Manchester airport where two violent thugs were released from police custody under pressure and protest from an immigrant community.

The accusations of two tiered policing may actually have some legs you know, because the police have seemed more than happy to go in hard and engage with right wing thugs protesting. Who can blame them though they do the same to an immigrant community and the accusations of racism would be rife.
 
2mufc0 said:
Been charged with 3 counts of murder and 10 counts of attempted murder.

Don't see why they can't reveal his name, the cnut shouldn't see the light of day again.
Click to expand...
Isn't he a minor?

Can he be sentenced for life without any possibility of liberation in the UK? Because that's what he indeed deserves.

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that someone can wake up in the morning with the firm intention of stabbing kids.
 
So at the London 'protests', they threw flares at a statue of Churchill. Great patriots.
 
Longshanks said:
Sure the mis information spread online didn't help, but it did bear all the hallmarks of an islamic extremist style attack.

And with very little official information about the perpetrator released. People will inevitably jump to conclusions.

Tensions are already heightened because of the other events, and I'm not sure how they have been framed? Harehills where am immigrant community rioted and smashed the place up and the police left them to it. Manchester airport where two violent thugs were released from police custody under pressure and protest from an immigrant community.

The accusations of two tiered policing may actually have some legs you know, because the police have seemed more than happy to go in hard and engage with right wing thugs protesting. Who can blame them though they do the same to an immigrant community and the accusations of racism would be rife.
Click to expand...

How did it bear the hallmarks of an Islamist style attack?

Were there many of these white rioters who got booted in the face by the police do you know? I'm struggling to understand how someone can watch a policeman stamp on someone's head and think that's 'light policing'.

Your framing of the 3 situations is quite illuminating though.
 
africanspur said:
How did it bear the hallmarks of an Islamist style attack?

Were there many of these white rioters who got booted in the face by the police do you know? I'm struggling to understand how someone can watch a policeman stamp on someone's head and think that's 'light policing'.

Your framing of the 3 situations is quite illuminating though.
Click to expand...

Because generally speaking where there are mass killings of innocent people in this country in recent history it has been an islamic terrorist attack. So you know 2+2=5.

I would imagine some of the rioters from the last couple of nights have had some digs of the police yes. Maybe some have even been kicked in the face, although I have no evidence of this. But I would be very surprised if it hasn't happened.

I haven't framed anything. That is pretty much what has happened. The authorities are terrified of going to heavy handed on immigrant communities for fear of being called racist or for fear of stoking racial tension.
 
Longshanks said:
Because generally speaking where there are mass killings of innocent people in this country in recent history it has been an islamic terrorist attack. So you know 2+2=5.

I would imagine some of the rioters from the last couple of nights have had some digs of the police yes. Maybe some have even been kicked in the face, although I have no evidence of this. But I would be very surprised if it hasn't happened.

I haven't framed anything. That is pretty much what has happened. The authorities are terrified of going to heavy handed on immigrant communities for fear of being called racist or for fear of stoking racial tension.
Click to expand...
Since 2020 all the mass killings that have occured in the UK have been non-islamic attacks. To say it bears the hallmarks of an islamic attack just because it's a mass killing is the type of thing which makes Tommy and his lot jump on. Mass killing - Must mean it's islamic. That's just nonsense and the sort of shit that fuels the islamophobia and racism.
 
Longshanks said:
Because generally speaking where there are mass killings of innocent people in this country in recent history it has been an islamic terrorist attack. So you know 2+2=5.

I would imagine some of the rioters from the last couple of nights have had some digs of the police yes. Maybe some have even been kicked in the face, although I have no evidence of this. But I would be very surprised if it hasn't happened.

I haven't framed anything. That is pretty much what has happened. The authorities are terrified of going to heavy handed on immigrant communities for fear of being called racist or for fear of stoking racial tension.
Click to expand...

Has there ever been an Islamist attack in this country targeting children specifically like this?

Well you have.

The harehill situation: rioters from an immigrant population who smashed things up

The Manchester airport situation: Two violent thugs. Released because of protest from an 'immigrant' community, even though some of the people from this 'immigrant', community have potentially had family roots in this country for more than half a century now.

This situation: People will inevitably jump to conclusions, it's two tiered policing etc.

There are literally dozens of injured police officers, a smashed up place of worship and attacks on downing street and a Churchill statue. Wonder what the framing would be if one of the 'immigrant communities' had done this.
 
Longshanks said:
Sure the mis information spread online didn't help, but it did bear all the hallmarks of an islamic extremist style attack.

And with very little official information about the perpetrator released. People will inevitably jump to conclusions.

Tensions are already heightened because of the other events, and I'm not sure how they have been framed? Harehills where am immigrant community rioted and smashed the place up and the police left them to it. Manchester airport where two violent thugs were released from police custody under pressure and protest from an immigrant community.

The accusations of two tiered policing may actually have some legs you know, because the police have seemed more than happy to go in hard and engage with right wing thugs protesting. Who can blame them though they do the same to an immigrant community and the accusations of racism would be rife.
Click to expand...

You mean two people were released on bail, a completely normal thing for someone who hasn't been sentenced?
 
Ah look, the nazies have collectively dropped their mask of civility. Can someone get some more bricks?
 
NotThatSoph said:
You mean two people were released on bail, a completely normal thing for someone who hasn't been sentenced?
Click to expand...
Exactly. I've seen nobody defending those people except for the basic fact that we very much expect our police officers not to stamp on the heads of anybody. I don't think that's an unreasonable ask.
 
Chipper said:
Long rambling post about me possibly being a conspiracy theorist incoming! I've spent too much time on Twitter since the attack happened in truth. Would like to think I didn't or don't believe a load of bollocks but conspiracy theorists always think they're privvy to special information don't they?

Either way it's been interesting to watch things spread around that I'm sure weren't true and what the media reports as well.

Mentioned it yesterday, but I believe I knew the identity of, or an approximation of who the attacker was on the night it happened. There was a Twitter user who claimed to have lived opposite the attacker and that it was his doorbell footage that was featured on ITV News of the attacker pacing outside his own home wearing a green hoodie. He also added photos taken from his bedroom window of the police at what he said was the attackers house later as proof of sorts when people didn't believe the footage came from him as he was being accused of making things up for attention. I simply stumbled upon this when hitting the trending word "Southport" on Twitter on Monday evening.

As I read on, he was talking about how shocked he was, that he thought they were a nice family etc. At that point the attacker's Rwandan family background had been revealed in the mainstream and he said he didn't even realise his father was from another country as he had no strong accent. He spoke of his father's profession, and also mentioned that the attacker has a disabled brother.

The guy behind the Twitter account said he wouldn't be stupid enough to reveal the attacker's name but stated he had an English sounding first name. When someone presented a pleasant local online news article to him about a man who was originally from Rwanda, had previously lived in Cardiff and was currently living in Southport asking if he was the attacker's father he confirmed that it was. Ashamedly I started digging around and found another online article about a disabled young man with the same last name from Southport.

At this point I saw that a very niche "news" website had started to report that the attacker was a Muslim with an Arabic sounding name, which completely contradicted what I'd previously been reading. It was mad to watch that rumour spread like wildfire and people repeat it with no evidence. I think some still are actually! It was later revealed that it actually means something like "Where is my apartment?" in Arabic, and that the site had been trolled or was trolling. Also suggestions that the site may have something to do with Russia with the insuation that they were trying to cause anti-Muslim sentiment in the UK as a form of disruption. Not sure where that one went in the end.

Before the police or news media had revealed the attacker's Rwandan background they first said he was originally from Cardiff and no more. They also said they didn't believe it was related to terrorism but that didn't stop people speculating that it was and many were assuming the attacker was a Muslim. It was interesting that they later put out the Rwanda detail and after they did others were digging up the religious demographic stats of Rwanda, along with the conclusion that it was unlikely to be Islamic terrorism. Still didn't stop some saying he could have converted, and that's probably still the assumption of some.

It did make me wonder if they revealed his background to try and calm things down a little and try to quell Islamophobia after they saw how things were going. Another possible reason is that they could have simply added that detail after finding out themselves, not being aware at first. Either is possible.

When I went to sleep on Monday the fake attacker's name was going around a lot, and there were just 2 tweets on the whole of twitter stating the same last name I'd seen. I searched the name again on Twitter yesterday and it was slowly starting to get out there. Someone had pieced together the address of the attacker from the news footage or so they claimed and they'd looked up the residents on 192.com with proof. Same last name I'd seen from the article about his father.

Next time I checked a first name and middle for the attacker was being mentioned too. It fitted in with him having an English sounding name which I'd seen the neighbour mention (well European sounding at least).

More things were emerging. A birth record from Cardiff with the same name matching the attacker's correct year of birth if he is 17, and a mother's last name matching a resident found on the 192.com search. Then there was some online gaming account (I think) claiming it was his in the same name. There was another picture of his brother, this time at university wearing a t-shirt with his name embroidered on it as well as the name of the uni. Quite a lot at this stage. It's at the point where I'm personally convinced.

Still, there was an awful lot of bollocks going round. The fake Arabic name still going around a lot, people claiming he was an asylum seeker when even the mainstream had said he was born in Cardiff, Andrew Tate posting a picture of a much older person being arrested. People hear a rumour and assume it's true without evidence the repeat it. No doubt prejudice plays a part in terms of what they're willing to believe or not. Others just assume shit and say and run with it. There's also the thing where people hear something true or not, but then no correction or update and continue to repeat what they'd heard. Really interesting from a psychological point of view as an observer.

That last paragraph reminds me of something I read on here ages ago after the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse. He was that guy who shot 3 and killed 2 at a BLM protest and was found not guilty on the grounds of self defence. Someone posted that up until the trial they thought the people he shot were black even though it was over a year between the incident and trial. People assume things, and to be fair if someone only reads headlines the media do like to write them in a misleading way on occasion.

Moving on to the riot last night and the reporting of it that a couple of you were talking about in here. I too was aware of people claiming that it was because of an individual being arrested close to the vigil in posession of a knife. I'd seen the video of the supposed arrest, knew it was close to the vigil's location (Princes St) and had seen the police statement. I didn't know if the video matched the police statement or if it could have been from another time.

Do I believe that some people may have been rioting because of that? It's very possible. Having witnessed people online also believing any old crap, or assuming things that were categorically debunked I'd also say there's a good chance most of them had never even heard about it. It is not being mentioned as a possible contributary cause in the media though. That's been very noticeable. Instead they've been talking specifically about fake names, when there were only 2 mentioned and one of them I'm sure is correct due to considerable circumstantial evidence, and other falsehoods such as refugee status of the attacker.

Either way, someone getting arrested close to the vigil would have been no justifiable reason to attempt to attack a mosque that had nothing to do with him. Even if he did attend it, it wouldn't mean the mosque is guilty by association unless there was some proven link of them radicalising attendees. That's brain-dead behaviour.
Click to expand...
Good post, thanks. It very much points to the fact that many people are desparate to hear things that back up their prejudices and never spend a second to check whether any of it is true. Years will pass and new evidence will come to light, but for many people, they'll only ever have their original gut feelings about things and will never be swayed.

Another thing with the arrest of that guy: Even if we are to believe the assertation that he was a muslim who was near the vigil with a knife (rather than another would-be rioter looking to join up with the rest), his arrest was at 6:55pm. Many of the rioters had already arrived in Southport and had started downing cans of lager and cider in the town centre. Then they proceeded to attack the same police force that had just arrested this guy as well as the attacker. You've got to be thick as shite to think that story adds up.
 
decorativeed said:
Exactly. I've seen nobody defending those people except for the basic fact that we very much expect our police officers not to stamp on the heads of anybody. I don't think that's an unreasonable ask.
Click to expand...

It's pretty absurd. They have been charged, they'll be sentenced by a judge, and then they'll serve whatever sentence they get.

You don't keep people in custody without a sentence if you don't have to, which is usually if it's necessary for the investigation, if the suspect is deemed a flight risk, if there's danger of evidence getting destroyed, or if they're an immediate danger to other people. There's no reason to think any of that's the case, so of course they're released like anyone would be. Yet, according to megabrain over there it's because immigrants.

I've read so many comments on redcafe lately that are pretty indistinguishable from right wing twitter stuff. On topics like this, or protestors, and others.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.