Solskjaer's legacy and his future

[Gomes]

Jesus, they are still doubling down. Ralf could lose every single remaining game this season and Solskjaer will still be the worst United manager there has ever been.
He built this awful squad. He wasted 3 years and hundreds of millions citing rebuild which has resulted in the worst United team of the Premier League era.
This is his legacy.

 

[romufc]

Dont be daft. When he was here the narrative among his most most outspoken critics was that this was a very talented squad and it was down to lack of coaching, so any decent coach would have us flying. And im not blaming RR either. Its clear that there is something really fecking wrong here and just pinning all the blame on the managers wont get us anywhere.

Exactly this. Alot of last season we heard lack of coaching. I am sure there were fans saying, another manager would challenge for the league with this group of players.

RR is not to blame, the players have shown themselves for what they are. Cowards.

Ole got not only top 4 but he got to semis and finals of cup competitions with the same group of players. So Ralf has to take some heat not to get these players organised at the very least. As Izec said, worst manager in the last decade but got a tune out of these players.

 

[redshaw]

Feels like some are willing to pass the buck for the managers we've had, they're impart responsible for lack of desire and drive. The top managers are able to galvanize a group, be a figure head and leader, have the character and charisma. Posting like Ole is some sage how he stated a while back this team lacks desire doesn't absolve him or Ralf. A group of guys can get easily lost if not led hence why we have managers and people like Pep, Klopp, Fergie, Conte etc are at the top and get the players to buy into working as one, in a highly demanding manner. But this is just one aspect, there's many factors.

 

[united for life]

Jesus, they are still doubling down. Ralf could lose every single remaining game this season and Solskjaer will still be the worst United manager there has ever been.
He built this awful squad. He wasted 3 years and hundreds of millions citing rebuild which has resulted in the worst United team of the Premier League era.
This is his legacy.

seems you haven’t known Ole as a player. You can’t disregard that when talking about his legacy. Frank lampard failed at Chelsea, but his legacy as a player remains.

we were going in the right direction with Ole. Reaching european finals, finishing second to a far better team. It all crashed this season - i am not saying Ole is not at fault, but the whole system doesn’t seem to be working - top down. No one in this football club seems to have a clue what they are doing.

 

[Xaviesta]

It was 3 years ago when United, with Solskjaer as their manager, had their much trumpeted cultural reboot/reset/rebuild call it whatever you want. The most damning thing is United need another cultural reset and squad rebuild and they're probably worse now than this time 3 years ago. Yes, Rangnick hasn't done a good job but he inherited a shit show from Solskjaer that United will need 2-3 years to fully recover from.

 

[crossy1686]

I defended Solskjaer when he was here but feck me has he set us back years with either his piss poor recruitment or being too passive with other recruiting for the club.

 

[VP89]

Who just gave Bruno 250k a week when he was on a long term contract on a 100k anyway? I really doubt Ralph had any influence on the decision.

A great fecking start for the next manager. If Bruno's bad spell continues the next manager is stuck with him.

That decision isn't near as bad as Baily or Martial or Jones or trying to actively keep Lingard and talking about it as such.

 

[VP89]

Ralf basically says the same thing regarding physicality and yet Ole gets laughed at for saying more or less the same thing.

Basically these players do not give a single feck.

No he doesnt. Ralf talks about the importance of tactics as much as the other side. He spent untold minutes talking about tactics and playing style whilst Ole dismissed their importance. He never even took proper lead of training sessions for fecksake.

Quit mindlessly trying to find snips to claim they're comparable. Ole was a complete dud.

 

[UnitedSofa]

No he doesnt. Ralf talks about the importance of tactics as much as the other side. He spent untold minutes talking about tactics and playing style whilst Ole dismissed their importance. He never even took proper lead of training sessions for fecksake.

Quit mindlessly trying to find snips to claim they're comparable. Ole was a complete dud.

No No I'm not.

I'm simply claiming that they both complained that the squad has no desire or passion.

 

[VP89]

No No I'm not.

I'm simply claiming that they both complained that the squad has no desire or passion.

And Im saying all Ole wants is that and nothing else. He looks at that and thinks its sufficient on its own because hes so so poor in his own understsndung of modern football.

 

[Xaviesta]

Another side issue fans gloss over is what we saw last night was culminating for years as ole and mourinho constantly had us surrendering possession to the likes of Liverpool and City with the hope of nicking something so it is no surprise that we see a team getting absolutely outplayed when it is all they have known how to play against Liverpool for so long and it is going to be hard for this group of players to change their mentality going into the same game again

Good point. I suspect that over time, Ten Hag will build a team that won't go into these types of games with the sole aim of defending deep and hoping pinch a goal or two on the break.

 

[VP89]

Like Jose was for Smalling and Jones' contracts despite buying Lindelof the summer before and then literally having the biggest Jose hissy fit ever the summer after when we didn't sanction a move for another one? Or when we gave Bailly a new deal a month or two before we bought Varane, despite Ole hardly playing him?

And that's before we get to Bruno getting a contract when we haven't even got a manager.

I wonder who consulted the club on that one?

Go and find the reports and interviews where its clearly stated Ole was consulted on the extensions for the players.

He fecked up the squad hard. He even openly said how we wanted to keep Lingard. He lied to Baily and promised more playing time for fecksake

 

[Asger]

I defended Solskjaer when he was here but feck me has he set us back years with either his piss poor recruitment or being too passive with other recruiting for the club.

This mess is on the board! We have still players that were at the club under SAF... Let that sink in. Since Klopp took the Liverpool job I think only Henderson and Milner are still there. At City The whole squad is Guardiola players.

Doesn't matter who is the next coach, if he is not allowed to sell all and buy new squad we will be a mess for decade.

 

[Ralph1386]

His legacy is getting better with every game.

Yes that’s why clubs are lining up to hire him

 

[thegregster]

That decision isn't near as bad as Baily or Martial or Jones or trying to actively keep Lingard and talking about it as such.

Pogba 400k a week still on the table.

Cant blame Ole for that.

 

[VP89]

Pogba 400k a week still on the table.

Cant blame Ole for that.

Reportedly. I dont actually believe its still on the table, unless Luckhurst or Ornstein etc have said it. Ive only read this on DM or Express.

Also thats why I didnt name Pogba in my list. So its bizarre why you're bringing him up.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Ole performed miracles getting this team to 3rd and 2nd in consecutive seasons. And for all the criticism of him only being about 'good vibes', that's obviously what this squad needs. His legacy is getting better with every game.

Absolute crap. Also his legacy is getting worse with every game. Ole didn’t rebuild shit, won feck all and after three years of planning left us with a team that needs to be dismantled to the core.

 

[Dante]

Absolute crap. Also his legacy is getting worse with every game. Ole didn’t rebuild shit, won feck all and after three years of planning left us with a team that needs to be dismantled to the core.

He definitely got 3rd and 2nd in consecutive seasons with this squad. You can check it on Wikipedia.

 

[TuzlaUnited]

He flushed 350 million down the toilet, won zero trophies, left us with HM and people still talk about legacy. What legacy?
I enjoy football but some fans are like cultist.

 

[Red Star One]

His legacy is getting better with every game.

Gotta love some WUM, this made me chuckle. Obviously his legacy is getting better by a minute - check how highly rated he is outside of United bubble and how many teams line up begging for him to manage them. Also finally those who criticized his transfers are keeping their mouth shut

 

[Foxbatt]

If this team was tactically outplayed, then yes Ralf is responsible. No he set up the team right. You simply cannot go to Liverpool and outplay them. You have to stop them playing. That is why he said that such a high line was never part of the plan and tactics and he does not know why the players suddenly decided to do that. Then they were not willing to put in a fight. Not even a tackle.
As Scholes said, you just go and tackle and kick a couple of players. Not let them dance around you all the time This is all on the players. Managers are not trying to win a charm contest but to be nasty when they have to be. Then level of this team is what we are now. A top half club. Whoever comes in needs to clear all the dead wood brought in by all the managers in the past. Getting rid of Maguire, AWB, and Rashford is going to be very difficult.

 

[Dante]

Gotta love some WUM, this made me chuckle. Obviously his legacy is getting better by a minute - check how highly rated he is outside of United bubble and how many teams line up begging for him to manage them. Also finally those who criticized his transfers are keeping their mouth shut

What's the best position you think a top manager would be able to get out of this squad? 1st? 2nd? 3rd?

If it's 1st, Ole obviously couldn't have done that bad a job with building the squad.

If it's 2nd or 3rd, that's what Ole himself achieved and you'd have to admit he did a good job with those finishes.

Either way, Rangnick is obviously a decent manager himself. And if Ole could outperform him, that shows he wasn't so clueless after all.

 

[Bobcat]

No we can't. Not even a fraction.


And let's keep nailing this drivel about top four finishes on the head. When we finished third under Ole we had 55 points at this same exact point in the season. We're on 54 points, one point worse off. We fluked those league finishes because other top six clubs had nightmarish seasons.

Maguire as bad as hes been, is still an England international. Easily worth 50 million, AWB im confident we can get 30 million for.

And using points as a yardstick from season to season is dumb. You know that. Especially considering we have 8-9 clubs who can make a realistic push for top 4

 

[UnofficialDevil]

He definitely got 3rd and 2nd in consecutive seasons with this squad. You can check it on Wikipedia.

Not this again. Liverpool had 54 points this time last year. 76 this year. Same with Chelsea, we’ve been over this so many times, empty stadiums etc. Ole was absolutely crap, admitting that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a good player for us, nothing wrong with being honest.

 

[Foxbatt]

What's the best position you think a top manager would be able to get out of this squad? 1st? 2nd? 3rd?

If it's 1st, Ole obviously couldn't have done that bad a job with building the squad.

If it's 2nd or 3rd, that's what Ole himself achieved and you'd have to admit he did a good job with those finishes.

Either way, Rangnick is obviously a decent manager himself. And if Ole could outperform him, that shows he wasn't so clueless after all.

Well he has not has he? And we would never know because Ralf is only here for a few months while Ole was given the job halfway thru his interim manager's period. Huge difference when you are only an interim and a full manager.

 

[Foxbatt]

Not this again. Liverpool had 54 points this time last year. 76 this year. Same with Chelsea, we’ve been over this so many times, empty stadiums etc. Ole was absolutely crap, admitting that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a good player for us, nothing wrong with being honest.

Exactly and Jose got 2nd and won two Cups too. Does not mean he was a success. He certainly was better than Ole for sure.

 

[Max_United]

We can argue to death about whether 2nd and 3rd finishes were an achievement, but I have never heard any explanation from Ole defenders as to why he is now only being considered for jobs in Scottish and Scandinavian leagues. If he did any sort of good or even decent job at United, he should not have any problems finding a job much better than that and the likes of Aberdeen etc should consider him way above their league. But it seems that nobody outside a part of our fan base really thinks that he is anywhere close to PL level manager even. What do they see that the entire world does not?

 

[matsdf]

Exactly and Jose got 2nd and won two Cups too. Does not mean he was a success. He certainly was better than Ole for sure.

No one, literally no one has claimed that Ole was a success, so what the feck is your point?

 

[matsdf]

We can argue to death about whether 2nd and 3rd finishes were an achievement, but I have never heard any explanation from Ole defenders as to why he is now only being considered for jobs in Scottish and Scandinavian leagues. If he did any sort of good or even decent job at United, he should not have any problems finding a job much better than that and the likes of Aberdeen etc should consider him way above their league. But it seems that nobody outside a part of our fan base really thinks that he is anywhere close to PL level manager even. What do they see that the entire world does not?

Ole expressed that his goal as a manager was to manage Man Utd. He did that, and failed. Even if he was offered another PL gig, he probably wouldn't take it.

Ole outperformed Lampard on about every metric there is, and he was still offered the Everton job...

 

[Max_United]

Ole expressed that his goal as a manager was to manage Man Utd. He did that, and failed. Even if he was offered another PL gig, he probably wouldn't take it.

Ole outperformed Lampard on about every metric there is, and he was still offered the Everton job...

Well if Ole does not want to manage in PL - he would be coveted by clubs from other top leagues if he was any good. But he isn't.

Lampard had a relatively successful spell in championship with Derby, Ole failed at championship level. Both failed at top clubs but at least Lampard was under transfer ban. Overall, their relative championship performance is the main differentiator. I personally do not think Lampard is better than Ole, but you can see why he still got another chance in PL at a smaller club and Ole probably wouldn't even if wanted.

 

[elnorte]

It's strange that people still cannot quite grasp that both the previous manager and current players being utterly abysmal are not mutually exclusive concepts.

 

[anant]

No we can't. Not even a fraction.


And let's keep nailing this drivel about top four finishes on the head. When we finished third under Ole we had 55 points at this same exact point in the season. We're on 54 points, one point worse off. We fluked those league finishes because other top six clubs had nightmarish seasons.

The team had played against all big 6 sides by this time. I dont see how this team will finish with more than even 62 points.

And it's a league. How do you fluke a league position for 2 seasons - A season sure, but if it's 2 seasons, it's not luck especially considering we were among the top 4 side by every metric

 

[Bobcat]

If you really think we could get those sorts of figures for either then you really dont understand anything about football transfers. We'd struggle to get rid of AWB on a free transfer

And no, comparing league finishes without context is demonstrably dumb. League points at least allows a rough comparison between seasons regardless of how other teams performed. We had a fecking shocking season when we finished third under Ole. Hideous results, hideous football. That's why we were on 55 points with 5 games to go. Same as now. 66 points is normally not good enough for top four let alone third.

Come on. I know people like to shit on AWB but hes clearly not that bad.

Everyone besides Liverpool were abysmal that season, but with Covid and playing about half the season in empty stadiums you cant really draw any big conclusions one way or the other. The arrival of Bruno also had a massive impact on our points haul, as before that we were playing either Mata or fecking Pereira as our creative outlet in the middle.

Its not really the point though. The point is that its pretty daft to blame a previous manager for our current malaise when hes been gone for 6 months. Especially when the leading narrative was that we had a good squad, but was held back by tactics/coaching/organization/structure or whatever, the very same posters singing praise for Tuchel about how he had an instant impact on Chelsea.

And i dont blame RR either. Imo, hes not really a manager and his track record shows hes much better suited as a technical/sporting director and personally i think we would be mental to let him go. Lastly, the problems we have runs far, far deeper than whoever is the manager. The whole club is rotten to its core. Just pinning the blame on the manager and then hoping the next one can solve all our issues is insane imo and if we keep doing that we wont get anywhere

 

[laughtersassassin]

I wonder how much guilt he feels? Hopefully a lot. He wasted 3 seasons and set us back further while doing it.

Obviously it's not his fault he was given the job but he very surely knew he wasn't good enough.

Should have not accepted the permanent job. And after he did he should have stepped aside at the first sign of failure

 

[::sonny::]

It has been useless sacking, similar results after his sack (even worse in my opinion)

 

[R'hllor]

Is it me or weirdos trying hard to push narative how Ole is/was in the same situation as Ralf? Like "Now you see with what kind of players Ole worked, props to him for everything he managed to achieve with them"

He is the one who actually signed those motherfeckers, money spent on transfers and their wages, under him they got their contract extensions, he is the one who was calling them Billy, Willy, Bobby, Jinxy, Rashy, Washy. He is the one who gave captaincy to someone who joined United 5 minutes before that, hello, fecker just joined and became a captain 5 min later, knows whats United its DNA all about, they said.

So no, they were not in the same situation, RR inherit Ole`s squad that was built for 3 years and XXXmil. spent, a squad that isnt fit to press more than 7 minutes, thanks to Ole`s "work", not to mention struggles in final third for past 2-3 years on top of zero trophies.

I mean what the feck is this shit , oh also miss me with your out of context league positions, only thing we got from those CL participations is that premature thread about Ole fecking hipster managers which ended in tears at the end.

 

[Gonçalo Motta]

It was obvious that Ole was out of depth as a manager but I also feel like everyone was way too quick to scapegoat him when it was obvious that the issues were way more than just the coach.
By changing him, we changed nothing. In some aspects, we are actually even worse.

In the space of 2/3 years, 90% of this team needs to be gone since I don't expect a wipeout in 1 single summer window (I wouldn't complain that much if that happened tho).

 

[BulgarianDevil91]

I've always been supportive of every United manager in the post SAF era. I really thought Ole has the club's best interest in his actions - the football at the start of his spell was fast-paced and a bit more direct, he managed to get rid of some of the deadwood, he got some, allegedly, good players in and had an idea of how he wanted things to go. Got us to the UEL final as well, which I appreciate. Saying all that, I realize it's only been good feom the outside. He knew what was brewing behind the curtains, he was well aware of all the shite both the players and the higher-ups were up to and did nothing to try and improve the situation. In the end, all he did was praise the boys. I feel dumb having come to this realization, but such is life.

Now I value Rangnick's honesty even more. I hope it's not all talk, I really want to believe he has the club as his main priority and is not doing all this just to play preted. Hope I'm not proven wrong by him as well when I come back to this post in a few years.

 

[Idxomer]

Not this again. Liverpool had 54 points this time last year. 76 this year. Same with Chelsea, we’ve been over this so many times, empty stadiums etc. Ole was absolutely crap, admitting that doesn’t mean he wasn’t a good player for us, nothing wrong with being honest.

It will mean they were wrong all these years defending him, can't have that here.

 

[RopersReturn]

“There's plenty more people than just Ole to blame but he deserves a big share of it for being such an inept manager and willing Glazer patsy.”

This sentence pretty much sums up all you need to understand about the affect Ole had on the club.