Solskjaer's legacy and his future

fergiewherearethou said:
How much time to give Ole ? 10 years to address the issues ? 20 ?
He had plenty of time and many of the problems were "purchased" by him. When he left, 6 out of 11 starters were bought by him and he had time to dispose of the other players but choose to keep them and use them.
If ETH is a better manager than Ole, and signs till now point he is, then he must solve the problems fast.
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It really doesn’t matter, does it!? The issues are still the same. He was dead right about culture, and it is still showing. Rangnick has seen it, and Teen Haag must keep it going.
Choice is a relative thing, and time is the perspective. A lot of work still! And happily a few of our players can step up to past glory.
 
Do we still have people defending him? The more this goes on the worse his managerial legacy gets.
 
hobbers said:
Problems that Ole caused himself by backing the wrong players, hoarding players and tricking some into staying by promising game time that he wasn't willing to give them.
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Not going to respond to this.. You didn’t, and still don’t understand the challenge at Man Utd..
 
Foxbatt said:
Do we still have people defending him? The more this goes on the worse his managerial legacy gets.
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Because United has one of the least clever fanbase for a top club. With fans being so used to easy days under SAF, they are utterly incapable of learning what makes a good manager from a bad one.
 
Vaultech said:
A lot of Ole fans are utterly incapable of looking at what was going on at other clubs in context. With a fanbase that myopic, it's no wonder United failed. A stupid fanbase deserve failure.
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A lot of Ole haters are incapable of seeing what is going on at this club nevermind other clubs context. One literally said earlier on in the thread the Ole undid all the great work Mourinho and Van Gaal did (as if we were amazing with these managers)
 
Anyone in the world of football (and not in the world of twitter) knows how terrible Ole was.

There is a reason no serious club is touching him with a ten foot pole. If he is lucky enough to somehow land a premier league job, he won't last long. Failure of a manager but what's worse is the cult like following he has. Ole was our lowest point post SAF. Our entrance into the "meme club" era.
 
NewUser777 said:
It really doesn’t matter, does it!? The issues are still the same. He was dead right about culture, and it is still showing. Rangnick has seen it, and Teen Haag must keep it going.
Choice is a relative thing, and time is the perspective. A lot of work still! And happily a few of our players can step up to past glory.
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Dead right about culture? He started "cultural reboot" and kept pointing to that being successful whenever he was asked about not being able to win any trophies in press conference. He in his own words said, the squad mentality and culture is completely different to one he started with, how they are "good" people who know what it's like to play for the shirt and fight for it.

It's amazing the plain lies people continue to spread. Him bleating about cultural change is what kept him buying support and time of the fans. I'm sure you and others were using that as a positive back when he was manager but are now using it to justify why he failed. Bravo!
 
We wasted three years going nowhere with him and we're now at our lowest point. He's not solely to blame, no one is, but there's nothing of any real substance worth praising him for. Nostalgia and sentimentality clouded any sense and reason when it came to discussing his credentials. Think it's about time we all agree it was a massive mistake and we all move on to a new era under a far more qualified manager.
 
Kush said:
Dead right about culture? He started "cultural reboot" and kept pointing to that being successful whenever he was asked about not being able to win any trophies in press conference. He in his own words said, the squad mentality and culture is completely different to one he started with, how they are "good" people who know what it's like to play for the shirt and fight for it.

It's amazing the plain lies people continue to spread. Him bleating about cultural change is what kept him buying support and time of the fans. I'm sure you and others were using that as a positive back when he was manager but are now using it to justify why he failed. Bravo!
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Cultural reboot in which players like Rashford, Pogba and Martial were treated like kings and players like Mata, Matic, Jones who he gave a 5 year contract and Jesse Lingz are still here. How delusional can a United fan be to think this guy did anything of the sort and are still being fooled :lol:

That's not even mentioning the clowns he brought into the club and that goes for players and staff.
 
hobbers said:
Doesn't require a response, what I said is inarguable.

You talk about understanding the challenge but dont seem to recognise how big a part Ole played in making it.
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It’s weird how some posters still talk about Ole as if he was some powerless figure who had to deal with an unmanageable mess (like Ralf has had to). While the problems at the club run very deep, the fact remains that Ole brought in a large number of new players (most of whom are now deadwood) while overseeing the renewal of the contracts of various deadbeats. In making these observations, it’s not a case of picking on Ole but rather holding him to the same standard as his predecessors.
 
Vaultech said:
The real issue is Ole sacrificed real long term development for short-term results. It's a mark of a bad manager that do not know how to improve the team as a whole over the course of his tenure.

Getting to minor semi-finals and finals ( failing to win minor trophy like the Europa league) is not a mark of a good manager. Not when that manager had access to one of the most expensive squad assembled in world football.



A single good player bailing the team that was performing poorly is always a bad thing. Good managers don't rely on a singular star to save the day. That is what bad managers and middling club managers do.

It's what clubs like Aston Villa or Crystal Palace do to ensure they don't get relegated. They have one or two stars to bail the rest of the team out. But at least those managers have the excuse that they have a lower quality squad than a club like Man United.

Patterns of play is important, and being able to implement good pattern of play is a mark of a good manager.
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Minor semifinals and finals? Minor? I also wonder what you mean by short term development and long term when you say that Solskjaer sacrificed. We did show progress until this year.

Most expensive squad is not same as good squad. We got players that don't perform. Can't perform, don't want or don't know how to perform. Either way it can't only be blaming game towards managers. Lot of them aren't even worth half of what they cost but because we are ManUtd we overpay. Always. So I don't see a point to mention expensive squad.
 
When you combine two incompetent people it was always going to end up in disaster. I still cannot believe that he said should trophies are for egos. Woodward and Ole combined was always going to end up like this. Thank God both are gone.
 
Ole didnt have enough time lul, seriously certain section having hard time to cope with reality outside their deluded bubble.
 
MoskvaRed said:
It’s weird how some posters still talk about Ole as if he was some powerless figure who had to deal with an unmanageable mess (like Ralf has had to). While the problems at the club run very deep, the fact remains that Ole brought in a large number of new players (most of whom are now deadwood) while overseeing the renewal of the contracts of various deadbeats. In making these observations, it’s not a case of picking on Ole but rather holding him to the same standard as his predecessors.
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Exactly, which is very ironic since before this season Ole's defenders acted as if he was an all-powerful figure was lavishly praised and credited for single-handedly "doing a rebuild", "improving the atmosphere", "cultural reboot", "building a good squad for next manager", and "clearing the deadwood". Now it is "transfers were bad but wasn't Ole's fault" and "atmosphere and culture are bad but not Ole's fault" and so on.

The truth in terms of his powers is somewhere in the middle of course, but the biggest problem among sections of our fanbase is that they refuse to hold him to the same standards as other managers. We all know, for example, that neither LvG nor Jose had 100% authority over transfers, but nobody absolved them of the responsibility to block the transfers or used that in their defense (and rightly so). Hardly anybody thought that players not being motivated is a mitigating factor rather than a failure of the manager to motivate them. After their sacking hardly anyone cared about LvG bringing us from 7th to 4th, winning first post-Fergie trophy or Jose qualifying us for CL 2 years in a row or 81 points or EL win etc - their tenure was branded as a definitive failure (rightly so) and those were just some positives which did not come close to overweighting negatives.

Yet with Ole it is still a constant stream of excuses and parroting of "3rd and 2nd place and EL final" as if it were a great achievement - and if anything (like squad balance) is obviously bad after his tenure - then it is always "not his fault", just endless infantilization of him really. Yes purely result-wise he did not do much worse than his predecessors who had better CVs, but in no way it means that he did a good job or we were progressing under him even until the last season. He left us in as much of a mess as we were after Jose, if not worse and we lost 3 years. Not a crime being not good enough (and yes, he was never the biggest problem with the club, of course), but what is really bad is that he refused to recognize his own limitations or did not believe they were important - evidenced by the fact that he did not hire experienced coaches. Were he not a Utd legend as a player there would not be much of a discussion on this topic imo.
 
studs said:
I see church of Ole is still strong in this thread.
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I see people talking with emotions and not facts. So I guess this anti-Solskjaer and actually anti-managers will keep going. As strong as ever. I’m actually surprised people haven’t started ten Hag out thread blaming him already for things.
 
NewUser777 said:
Yes we did! Several times. If anything, Ole showed the squad couldn’t be trusted. He did a fine job working on that up until this season. Whether it’s on him or the players is up to us fans. But to label some of us as Ole fans is not fair! Rangnick has repeatedly said there are problems, problems Ole 100% knew was there, but didn’t have time to address. It will be the same for Ten Haag, and people will be all over him for not polishing a turd fast enough.
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A lot of those problems (the signings of Maguire and AWB, the sense of entitlement shown by the likes of Rashford, the empty promises made to Lingard, Bailly, and Donny) were Ole's doing. And no injury crisis we had came close to Liverpool's being forced to field those 2 clowns at CB (can't even remember their names). And are you saying it's unfair to be labelled an Ole fan? I'm not sure what you are getting at there.
 
NewUser777 said:
Yes we did! Several times. If anything, Ole showed the squad couldn’t be trusted. He did a fine job working on that up until this season. Whether it’s on him or the players is up to us fans. But to label some of us as Ole fans is not fair! Rangnick has repeatedly said there are problems, problems Ole 100% knew was there, but didn’t have time to address. It will be the same for Ten Haag, and people will be all over him for not polishing a turd fast enough.
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Delusional. Manchester United did not have a injury crisis. Liverpool literally had to play a midfielder in defense. That wrecked the balance of their team. Yeah we had injuries but it wasn't significant. Stop making stuff up.
 
Slysi17 said:
Delusional. Manchester United did not have a injury crisis. Liverpool literally had to play a midfielder in defense. That wrecked the balance of their team. Yeah we had injuries but it wasn't significant. Stop making stuff up.
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Yeah, every club suffered from injuries over the course of a season. But the idea that every club's injury crisis is the same is utterly wrong.
 
Vaultech said:
Yeah, every club suffered from injuries over the course of a season. But the idea that every club's injury crisis is the same is utterly wrong.
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Exactly right. I just hate when fans overstate the injuries we got when Liverpools injuries was far worse just to defend Ole.
 
90 + 5min said:
Minor semifinals and finals? Minor? I also wonder what you mean by short term development and long term when you say that Solskjaer sacrificed. We did show progress until this year.

Most expensive squad is not same as good squad. We got players that don't perform. Can't perform, don't want or don't know how to perform. Either way it can't only be blaming game towards managers. Lot of them aren't even worth half of what they cost but because we are ManUtd we overpay. Always. So I don't see a point to mention expensive squad.
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Well I am fed up of making europa league finals. Ole made the europa league final last year because we messed up our champions league group. For once I actually want to make a champions league final. Even tottenham did it in 2019. So I get why that poster called the europa league minor.
 
crossy1686 said:
Beyond me why he didn't push for Lingard and Pogba to be sold last summer. Might have even saved him his job.
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The teflon twins Maguire & Shaw did far more to cost OgS his job than either of the players you mentioned this season. Would have been nice to have had the funds but OgS was let down by his favourites if anything. He didn’t lose his job because of Pogba & Lingard ffs.
 
Just like in his time with Cardiff, Ole wasted tons of money at United and let the squad rot. Just like Cardiff, the club will have to get rid of lots of players, after Ole's reset.
 
Slysi17 said:
Well I am fed up of making europa league finals. Ole made the europa league final last year because we messed up our champions league group. For once I actually want to make a champions league final. Even tottenham did it in 2019. So I get why that poster called the europa league minor.
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I guess you know that only 2 teams can play final in Champions League and only one can win. Tottenham came to final and lost. It is not like they won. Because we were and not close to that we should take what is being offered in these times.
 
90 + 5min said:
I see people talking with emotions and not facts. So I guess this anti-Solskjaer and actually anti-managers will keep going. As strong as ever. I’m actually surprised people haven’t started ten Hag out thread blaming him already for things.
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People are not "anti-Solskjaer and actually anti-managers". But if you are doing a shite job, you will be called out instead of inventing excuses. Ole has failed here and should have been sacked at least 2 times before he was inevitably sacked. He has survived here way longer than he should have and in the process his "cultural reboot" ended in him leaving us in the worst state any manager before him did. No decent club in the world will touch him with a barge pole which should tell you something. Good man, clueless manager.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
The teflon twins Maguire & Shaw did far more to cost OgS his job than either of the players you mentioned this season. Would have been nice to have had the funds but OgS was let down by his favourites if anything. He didn’t lose his job because of Pogba & Lingard ffs.
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Oh I agree, don't worry. I've been calling for Shaw to be replaced since LVG and we all know about Maguire. I'm not saying that Pogba and Lingard got him sacked, I'm saying that if he would have pushed for them to be shipped and brought in one or two midfielders who wanted to be here, maybe that would have been enough to cover for the shite in defence and allow him to keep his job. Either way he failed to take action on that matter alongside others and he was rightly fired.
 
90 + 5min said:
I guess you know that only 2 teams can play final in Champions League and only one can win. Tottenham came to final and lost. It is not like they won. Because we were and not close to that we should take what is being offered in these times.
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I counter that to the fact 1 billion pounds has been spent in the past 9 years. So Manchester United have the financial resources to actually compete for the champions league. Stupid statement of "take what is being offered". Shows you have no standards.
 
Oh here we go… the let’s blame Ole for the Russian invasion lot have entered.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
The teflon twins Maguire & Shaw did far more to cost OgS his job than either of the players you mentioned this season. Would have been nice to have had the funds but OgS was let down by his favourites if anything. He didn’t lose his job because of Pogba & Lingard ffs.
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There’s more to a football squad than what happens purely on the pitch and it’s clear that United have one of the most toxic dressing rooms in the league, hurt by the fact the squad was bloated, players wanted game time and weren’t given it, players wanted to leave. Solskjaer had better results with ‘worse’ players but a small and settled squad, so yes Pogba and Lingard and other players staying was a factor.
 
Because he was a United legend and the club played some of the best football since Ferguson when he was here. It went sour at the end. There’s another Ole thread for abusing him, he’s left now, we have a new full-time manager. Move on.
 
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How are people still not over this?

Despite his best efforts, he wasn't good enough and then he left. Shit happens.

Legend.
 
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