Striker is the only position more in need of a signing than goalkeeper. Arguably CM. We certainly need a new keeper more than a RB or back ups in any position.
Should we renew De Gea's contract?
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Striker is the only position more in need of a signing than goalkeeper. Arguably CM. We certainly need a new keeper more than a RB or back ups in any position.
I see a lot of hot takes here, understandable after last night but for me the bigger picture is more important and that is we need to be more clinical in front of goal. A goal scoring CF (at least one) is an absolute must this summer, along with backup for Casemiro to help control the middle of the park. We might even need to look at CB too.
GK can wait, and David will be a great no.2 when we do find a first choice no.1. Give him a renewal, and focus on building the team in front of him.
GK can wait, and David will be a great no.2 when we do find a first choice no.1. Give him a renewal, and focus on building the team in front of him.
Every available performance metric has shown the first bolded part to be utter shite but people keep trotting out this nonsense because he makes the odd save (usually before letting in a shot he should be saving).
As for the second bolded part, he would've been a Real Madrid goalkeeper but for a broken fax machine and then stayed because a contract that no sane football club would have given out was put in front of him. About has anyone else actually wanted him over the past few years? Heck he's available for free at the moment and nobody wants him.
And to answer the question about goalkeepers having an objectively better season than De Gea; Alisson, Raya, Kepa, Leno, Martinez, Ramsdale, Pope, Pickford, Neto. Ederson is debatable because he's not having his best season but is so important to how City play. So pretty much half the goalkeepers in the league.
He should only be renewed on backup wages in a backup capacity. He is a bottom half goalkeeper, one that some in the relegation zone have better goalkeepers than him.
- Shit at claiming or dealing with crosses/high balls
- Mediocre at playing out from the back
- Below average in shot stopping stats for the past 5 years
- Indecisive, creates panic in the backline, no organizational ability
- Pulls out of 50/50s
- Mediocre at sweeping
I don't think it ever works having two goalies that would consider themselves as starters. Either we go with DDG, or sell and go all out for who we want.
For me, GK one of the most important positions, if not joint important with a top class striker. We need to sort GK and CF as a matter of priority in the summer. I'd look to move DDG on, but who to replace him with that can deal with the scrutiny of being the United GK?
Every time I watch City, the amount of attacks Ederson starts is ridiculous. And the amount of attacks Haaland finishes is equaly ridiculous. That's the difference between the good and the top.
Maybe I'm doing confirmation bias here, but look how ordinary Bayern looked vs City. Notable absentees were Neuer and Lewandowski from that Bayern side in it's prime.
For me, GK one of the most important positions, if not joint important with a top class striker. We need to sort GK and CF as a matter of priority in the summer. I'd look to move DDG on, but who to replace him with that can deal with the scrutiny of being the United GK?
Every time I watch City, the amount of attacks Ederson starts is ridiculous. And the amount of attacks Haaland finishes is equaly ridiculous. That's the difference between the good and the top.
Maybe I'm doing confirmation bias here, but look how ordinary Bayern looked vs City. Notable absentees were Neuer and Lewandowski from that Bayern side in it's prime.
People making statements such as get forward first and GK afterwards, do you think the attacking and defensive units work independently? Do you not think that a game changes when a team scores?
Why do you think the game kept getting harder for us when Sevilla took the lead? You can get Haaland in this side and he would not have a major impact because teams will still target the poor GK and add pressure.
Why do you think the game kept getting harder for us when Sevilla took the lead? You can get Haaland in this side and he would not have a major impact because teams will still target the poor GK and add pressure.
Unless he accepts 100k a week bin him.
We need a modern day keeper and finally move on from this fairy.
We need a modern day keeper and finally move on from this fairy.
This is an alarming assessment of DDG. Because the player you describe isn't any good at all.
Stats are useful, but I don't see many keepers better than DDG. Better is an improvement. The keepers at City, Pool' are outstanding for sure.. Ramsdale is playing well, but other than that, it's much of a muchness for me.
I voted YES but only because there's so many other areas we need to focus on and a new keeper is a big gamble.
I'd keep him for next season, to focus on:
1 - Centre Forward
2 - Harry Maguire departure
3 - Cover for Varane
4 - Attacking Right back
5 - Cover for Casemiro
6 - Central Playmaker to rotate or improve on Eriksen
I'd keep him for next season, to focus on:
1 - Centre Forward
2 - Harry Maguire departure
3 - Cover for Varane
4 - Attacking Right back
5 - Cover for Casemiro
6 - Central Playmaker to rotate or improve on Eriksen
How on earth is replacing our 5th choice centre back a bigger priority than our starting goalkeeper ffs
Same shit is said every year. De Gea will be at United into his 40s at this rate. Perhaps it's time we focus on replacing the terrible keeper instead of pretending every other position is more important
Statistically he isn't a good goalkeeper. He is at very best, average PL level.
In the prem alone, goalkeepers who are better than him:
- Allison
- Ederson
- Ramsdale
- Pope
- Emi Martinez
- Raya
- Kepa/Mendy (this season for sure)
- Pickford
- Keylor Navas
- Lloris
- Sanchez/Steele
Fans are not very good at assessing the performances of keepers, and I include myself in that. It tends to be the case that if they make howlers they are poor, and if they don't and make a couple of usually standard saves they're fine or even great. But often, it's not to do with the feck ups like that last night that will define whether a keeper is good because ultimately they all do drop a bollock now and then. Of course if you do that often like DeGea then it's fairly apparent to everyone performances are poor.
Fortunately we do have access to some pretty incredible stats these days that allow us to dive a little bit deeper, beyond the very transparent. They've been telling us he is a less than average PL goalkeeper for a number of years now. Which is pretty incredible to think about and that's before you even get into some of the intangibles like how DeGea's lack of presence impacts our team which doesn't necessarily show in one stat.
Our number 1 goalkeeper is a bottom half of the table keeper and yet we still have people that believe a keeper is not a priority, or perhaps that it is the fifth or sixth idea on a shopping list. Would we be saying the same thing about other positions, I wonder? A bottom half standard midfielder like McTominay got slaughtered and is no longer a key player and rightly so because you can't have that and expect to challenge for major trophies.
For me it's a striker, and a keeper. Sort both ends of the pitch out once and for all. If that's all we can afford then so be it, we'll have to work around the rest - but keep in mind we actually invested in other positions recently.
Fortunately we do have access to some pretty incredible stats these days that allow us to dive a little bit deeper, beyond the very transparent. They've been telling us he is a less than average PL goalkeeper for a number of years now. Which is pretty incredible to think about and that's before you even get into some of the intangibles like how DeGea's lack of presence impacts our team which doesn't necessarily show in one stat.
Our number 1 goalkeeper is a bottom half of the table keeper and yet we still have people that believe a keeper is not a priority, or perhaps that it is the fifth or sixth idea on a shopping list. Would we be saying the same thing about other positions, I wonder? A bottom half standard midfielder like McTominay got slaughtered and is no longer a key player and rightly so because you can't have that and expect to challenge for major trophies.
For me it's a striker, and a keeper. Sort both ends of the pitch out once and for all. If that's all we can afford then so be it, we'll have to work around the rest - but keep in mind we actually invested in other positions recently.
No. I've always been of the opinion that it's more important for a goalkeeper to make very few fatal errors than to make several miracle saves per season. Usually when you have to make a miracle save it's because your defense/midfield did not its job properly, and you should aim to fix that, however if you have a goalkeeper that is capable of letting in those half chances - or even worse, create goal scoring opportunities for opposition with his recklessness - it's not possible to address that by any measures other than removing that goalkeeper from your team.
VDS was basically the sort of keeper I like. He rarely made miraculous saves (though he popped up with them occasionally) but he also almost never let easy goals in. It does wonders for the confidence of your other players when you know your GK is not going to screw up all your efforts with one brain fart and they will never have it with De Gea at this point.
VDS was basically the sort of keeper I like. He rarely made miraculous saves (though he popped up with them occasionally) but he also almost never let easy goals in. It does wonders for the confidence of your other players when you know your GK is not going to screw up all your efforts with one brain fart and they will never have it with De Gea at this point.
Not for me, considering how much we struggle if we have to play someone other than Casemiro, Varane and to an extent Eriksen none of which are spring chickens. Where as we are fully capable of going on long winning runs and beating top teams with DeGea behind good outfield players.
Ten Hag's top target last summer was a midfielder to play the role Eriksen has been deployed in. And from the rumours of the players we're being linked to Ten Hag and the club seem to agree that a midfielder/s and a striker are bigger priorities.
DeGea definitely needs replaced but I don't consider it as important as other positions this summer. It would be great if we could spend £400m+ but I just don't think it's realistic.
Yes, and it probably be on reduced terms. Replacing keepers is tricky and having David as a fallback plan is prudent.
Yeah, I agree he was incredible up until he signed that contract. I wouldn't ever take that away from him and he also gave me the pleasure of one of the best goalkeeping displays ever when keeping Liverpool at bay at Old Trafford.
That was at least 5 years ago now though, we've had balls trickle under his body several times, he's kicked the ball into Calvert Lewin which ended in a goal. He cost us an FA Cup semi final against Chelsea with two horrible errors.
I've lost count of his high profile errors. He's 100% used up all his credits earned from those four years.
The problem with the club and us as fans, ever since Fergie left actually, is we are too blind and too sentimental to know when it's time to just move on from a player, regardless of what that player has done for us in the past.
De Gea deserves respect for how he helped us when we were in a bad patch. We aren't in a bad patch anymore and he hasn't quite been the keeper that hit those highs for a few seasons now, even if he is capable of an amazing save or two every now and again. Get him gone he doesn't suit how we want to play moving forward.
Martial should have gone years ago
Phil Jones should have gone years ago
Numerous examples of players being given chance after chance.
De Gea deserves respect for how he helped us when we were in a bad patch. We aren't in a bad patch anymore and he hasn't quite been the keeper that hit those highs for a few seasons now, even if he is capable of an amazing save or two every now and again. Get him gone he doesn't suit how we want to play moving forward.
Martial should have gone years ago
Phil Jones should have gone years ago
Numerous examples of players being given chance after chance.
There are many many keepers who are clearly better than De Gea at every aspect of being a goalkeeper other than shot-stopping. Even though his shot-stopping is nowhere near as good as it once was and also isn't anywhere near as good as some make out, it's still something that he's decent at. But decent is nowhere near good enough to handcuff ourselves with his limitations in every other department. Especially when you add in the fact that he's spent the last five years consistently falling apart in the bigger matches. His mistakes when the pressure has been on have directly cost us CL qualification, knocked us out of the CL, knocked us out of the Europa and knocked us out of the FA Cup over that time. We'd consider him an absolute meme if he was playing for Liverpool or City these last five years.
Bring in somebody who is a decent shot-stopper while also being solid at the other basics of goalkeeping (claiming crosses, dominating his box, sweeping, distribution) and it's a significant improvement overall. You can even get away with being poor in one or two of them and they are still an improvement over somebody who is poor at all of them. Nick Pope for example is somebody that Newcastle picked up cheaply last season and while his actual distribution is no better than De Gea's he's obviously much better at the other basics and at least as good at the shot-stopping. He would have been a clear upgrade for a year or two until we were ready to spend big money on a different keeper, and at that time we'd probably get a decent fee for him considering his wages shouldn't be too high. That's the kind of profile we should be looking at if we can't afford to go big straight away.
The worst part is that the contract actually came after his first poor season. If he'd signed it directly after the 17/18 season it would be somewhat understandable, albeit even then it would have been overpriced considering just how much higher we were paying him than any other keeper in the world. But 18/19 he was distinctly average for most of the season, then absolutely shit the bed for the final couple of months and was all but throwing the ball in the net every second game. It was utter incompetence of the highest order that we offered him that contract on the back of that season.
Nothing about sentiment from me.. this is about transition. I am yet to hear anyone state a better keeper who is available. I can only think Pickford as a ready example as he isn't staying at Everton (unless he's nuts).
I'm not saying we should not be looking for a replacement.. what I am saying is that he is not as bad as many on here seem to be saying (and I have heard v v v few voices throughout the season giving him the torrid of abuse that I am now observing following last nights' debacle..).
And for those who choose stats, take a look at this, https://bit.ly/3H4rsrT and take note of who, according to stats is number 18.
If you think the keeper's at Palace and Bournemouth are better than DDG, because stats say so, then that's up to you. You want them to replace DDG then? Fabianski at West Ham better than DDG.. do me a favour...!
Too many fans rely upon stats to 'prove' what a good player is. Stats contextualise rather than define a players ability.
I think we need to get a new keeper as much as a centre forward as even the one thing De Gea did have as an attribute in his shot stopping is nowhere near what it was a few years ago, the fact every time the ball is passed to him you’d think he’d just been had the plague passed to him is simply massively damaging us.
It’s easy to blame Maguire for the first goal as he should have had the awareness to know he had opposition players around him but De Gea DID know as he was facing them so was just as much at fault, as for the second and third goals they’re all on De Gea completely and over the past couple of years it’s become more frequent.
I won’t pretend to know who should be our keeper next season but I do know it simply can’t be De Gea or he’ll be a major reason for ETH leaving the club, De Gea and Maguire can NOT ever be on the pitch at the same time ever again as they bring the worst out in each other and this isn’t a knee jerk opinion based on just last night.
It’s easy to blame Maguire for the first goal as he should have had the awareness to know he had opposition players around him but De Gea DID know as he was facing them so was just as much at fault, as for the second and third goals they’re all on De Gea completely and over the past couple of years it’s become more frequent.
I won’t pretend to know who should be our keeper next season but I do know it simply can’t be De Gea or he’ll be a major reason for ETH leaving the club, De Gea and Maguire can NOT ever be on the pitch at the same time ever again as they bring the worst out in each other and this isn’t a knee jerk opinion based on just last night.
The best defence I've ever seen in my life was that of AC Milan in the late 80s early 90s. It had Maldini as LB, Baresi and Costacurta in the middle, Tassotti as RB and Rijkaard as DM. Maldini and Baresi had retained the respect they deserve but I feel that the latter three do not. Costacurta was a sort of Nemanja Vidic. He was shorter then Nemanja but he compensated to that with superior versatility and passing skills. Cannavaro stated that Billy was the best CB he had ever played with. Tassotti was known as the professor. He was a mix of old fashioned RB and the modern FB which made him superb both when attacking and defending. Rijkaard on the other hand is one of the very few DMs I know who was superior to Roy Keane. He was such a complete package that could play anything from AMC to DMC right to CB. That defence unit was so good that Seba Rossi was able to break Zoff's record with 929 consecutive minutes without conceding a goal. Yet even that defence had a clink in its armour and that was Sebastiano Rossi. Rossi wasn't shit but he was quite unpredictable and he was 'guilty' of playing in the golden age of Goalkeepers and with a squad that was so rich that could buy anyone. Berlusconi would joke that he keeps Rossi around because he doesn't really need a goalkeeper in that team which was pretty BS if you ask me. The reality was that Rossi while not being Pagliuca or Zenga fitted in the system and served Milan well.
My point is that even the best teams will always have clinks in its armour. That doesn't mean that one shouldn't tackle such clinks. For example Phil Neville well known rash tackles nearly costed us the treble. However teams are rarely perfect (our current one is certainly isn't) and there is always a more pressing priority to tackle. Therefore as long as a player fits into a system with players covering for his weaknesses and viceversa then one has to close an eye to them up until it can be tackled. DDG is like that. Football has moved on and his time is almost out. However he's still our no 1 keeper based on merit (Ole would probably offered his left testicle in sacrifice to have Henderson as a permanent no 1) and he had shown that with the right players around him he can do the job.
That can't be said about Maguire. We were told that he would do well once we bring in a top CB to partner him instead of Lindelof. Varane came and he still fecked up. Then we were told that he'll do better once we replace McT with a top DM. Casemiro came and he still fecking up. Now it seems to be DDG's turn. The reality is that Maguire simply can't play in a high line. He simply lack the football awareness, the pace and the brains to do so and with Varane being so injury prone then that's an issue that needs to be tackled. The last thing we need is for Varane to pick a long term injury and us having to rely on Maguire week in week out. The guy has at least 1 big feck up per game.
Now back to the subject. If DDG refuse to accept a huge pay cut then I believe than its time for him to leave. I'd say the same if we're able to squeeze 6 signings at one go. If not then I don't mind DDG for another year. The guy has won far more then Maguire would dream to win, he won as many Sir Matt Busby player of the year as Cristiano Ronaldo did and while in decline he's still a valid player as long as he's got the right players around him.
This is astonishing. You have beenn watching us the last five years, right?
And it has been DDG's fault that we were knocked out of CL, Europa etc. You are seriously, making this an individual matter?
This is an incredible assessment, but it's also v v useful for me.
He's been a good servant to the club, even if he's never been great with the ball at his feet. The problem is that element has been ever more exposed with a defence that's equally uncomfortable on the ball, a midfield that fails to assert control on the game, and forwards who have a habit of going missing.
But he's not 5th choice isn't he? Maguire is preferred to Lindelof and Shaw played just 5 times as CB. Varane is 31 and is injury prone. Can you imagine if he picks a long term injury and we end up having to rely on him as CB for 2-3 months?
Yea a goalscorer changes how we end our attacks a new gk transforms how we defend as a team
All those supporting De Gea need to asks themselves who will take him if he is available on a free this summer? No top club.
It's like the dinosaurs who were saying we don't need a ball playing CB. The game has moved on and ETH style demands a keeper who is much better with his feet. Its just pointless having ETH as coach if we don't dump De Gea and get a new keeper.
You're focussing around Maguire far too much here, Maguire needs to move on, nobody is arguing with that. The difference is that Maguire is realistically our fifth choice at centre back, after Martinez, Varane, Shaw and Lindelof. He will move on, I don't think anyone doubts that.
Whereas if I'm reading it right, you think we have 5 priorities before replacing De Gea. I would say that is completely wrong. The biggest issue to playing a style of football Ten Hag has played previously is a goalkeeper dragging the team back. You cannot play effective high possession football with a deep defensive line, it does not work.
Hell no.
Forget stats entirely.
Eyes alone should tell you that David Raya has had a better season than De Gea and currently looks to be a better goalkeeper than him generally. He has already overtaken him at international level for all the reasons we also think De Gea needs to be replaced and will be leaving Brentford this summer to a bigger side. He would very clearly be a better fit for our style of play and improve us.
That's just one immediately obvious (and obviously obtainable) name from within this league alone. And a realistic assessment of De Gea combined with sheer weight of numbers should make it clear that there will also be other goalkeeper in other leagues who are currently better than him and would improve us.
Stats back that up, but you shouldn't need them to tell you that if you have any capacity to judge De Gea relative to other goalkeepers by watching them play.
The initial post was about priorities. In my opinion the priorities are
A- Striker (first team and cover). Martial is simply too unreliable to act as cover
B- Deep lying playmaker. Eriksen is playing in a role that is unconventional for him, he's 31 and he has heart issues. We need an upgrade
C- CB. (We discussed that already)
D - DM. Casemiro is 31, legs are the first thing to go, he loves the occasional red card and we all know what happens whenever he's not playing
E- GK
F- RB
GK can probably shift to 4th place if Mason Greenwood returns in the squad which in turn makes the need for a cover Stk redundant.
I think in the summer is the time to reflect on player contracts...
During the season every member of the squad will have good moments and bad...the time to renew is never when they are in great form. Behind Martinez and Varane (or at least one of them) DDG has amassed the most clear sheets in the league.
But if United finish the season with the Carabao Cup and a 4th place then I don't feel it should be an automatic renewal for DDG or anyone tbh.
During the season every member of the squad will have good moments and bad...the time to renew is never when they are in great form. Behind Martinez and Varane (or at least one of them) DDG has amassed the most clear sheets in the league.
But if United finish the season with the Carabao Cup and a 4th place then I don't feel it should be an automatic renewal for DDG or anyone tbh.
De Gea's mistakes in the latter part of 18/19 (which is still the worst form of his career) was the biggest reason we missed top four. Not the only reason, but if I'm asked to give the biggest reason it was certainly De Gea's form. In 19/20 he was at fault for three of the five goals that we conceded in the Europa and FA Cup semi's. In 20/21 he literally made himself as small as possible to avoid any contact where he might get hurt for the goal that ultimately knocked us out of the CL. That season he also didn't save a single penalty then missed his own in the Europa final. I wouldn't say that he was the reason we lost that one, but let's be honest it's more likely to happen to De Gea than most as he's so weak in penalties. Now this season he was at least somewhat at fault (I'd say the most at fault) for all three goals that Sevilla scored to knock us out of the Europa. He's also had some terrible errors against the likes of Liverpool, City and Arsenal in the league during these seasons. We all saw what happened to him in the 2018 World Cup where he was atrocious for Spain.
De Gea's worst games and biggest mistakes have regularly tended to come in the bigger games over that period. I'm astonished anyone thinks otherwise. Not only in the bigger games as he's also made a lot of mistakes in 'lesser' matches over these five years, but it's definitely been an unfortunate trend.
He's been far from brilliant, he's a disaster waiting to happen as we all saw yesterday.I'm not being funny, but talk about an agenda driven poll. So on the back of his worse game all season when he's been brilliant for most of the season this poll appears. He's currently in line to win the golden gloves and he's been our best player since Ferguson retired and a portion of our fan base sh*t all over him. Good lads keep it up
He's weak and couldn't organise his defence to save his life.
Time for him to go, now.
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Genuine question for anyone who's in the 10%.
If he goes out of contract, which clubs do you think will be interested in signing him?
If he goes out of contract, which clubs do you think will be interested in signing him?
Serious question; who is our keeper next season if de Gea is not here?
I honestly think there is a lack of options out there and the goalkeeper position is far lower down the list than others. I don't think Henderson is a realistic option to be number, but could prove the better option with a good pre-season behind him and adopting EtH's style of play.
Assuming we don't get the Qatari takeover by the summer, I'd give de Gea a new 2-year contract on £200-250k p/w and let him fight it out with Henderson.
I honestly think there is a lack of options out there and the goalkeeper position is far lower down the list than others. I don't think Henderson is a realistic option to be number, but could prove the better option with a good pre-season behind him and adopting EtH's style of play.
Assuming we don't get the Qatari takeover by the summer, I'd give de Gea a new 2-year contract on £200-250k p/w and let him fight it out with Henderson.
I would... on minimum wage.
Unless our ambition next season is to scrape top 4, I don't think we can afford to put the GK position on hold for another year. We focused on building the team in front of him last summer: now it's time to address the GK situation. He's costing us so many games as he can't command his area, can't pass a ball and his shot stopping is getting progressively worse.
Why prioritise a backup CB and a backup CM when our starting GK desperately needs upgrading?
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