Valencia is good technically, he is just ultra cautious with the ball and can't cross these days.
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Seamus Coleman
- Thread starter Morpheus 7
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Valencia's crossing hasn't been up to much recently but we have seen in the past a good level of ability from Valencia when it comes to crossing. Valencia is great at keeping the ball in tight spaces and is good at linking up with the likes of Mata and Herrera who can play 1-2 touch football. I'm not saying Valencia is perfect but he isn't as bad as some make out at all. It's funny that nobody rates him at RB but Fergie aswell as Van Gaal saw something in playing him here.
I think another thing people forget about Valencia is that a few years ago his foot was nearly hanging off. Not many players get back to even close to there original level after an injury like that so I personally am not too harsh on him.
Anyway the point is this thread is about Coleman and all I was doing was pointing out what you've then said, which is that everybody has been complaining about Valencia and his poor crossing yet people see fit to spend £25 million on a RB who the last time I watched him every one of the 5 chances he had to put the ball in he drilled it and hit the first man. I'm all for spending money if it gives us an upgrade on what we have but if we are dropping Valencia for his faults surely we would be better getting someone who can actually cross consistently.
In what way is Coleman better?
It's all good, Fletch got in the year beforeYou traitor, it's Carrick who you should have been in that team.
But I agree that he is a good player, not 25m player though.
Seriously? Valencia isn't a right back. Coleman's positioning, tackling and marking is 10x better than Valencia's.
This is the 10th year linked with Coleman
Being able to use his left leg for a start. Defensively he's not outstanding but by God he's defensively more solid than Valencia. Going forward as we all know he's one of the best around, in comparison to Valencia the player who has forgotten how to attack and is one of the most blunt attacking tools we've seen. Oh and Coleman is actually a right back. Apart from all that they're really much of a muchness.
Only on here you find people saying they are comparable. Put it this way; ask 20 completely neutral (from both sides) fans who they would rather have at RB and the answer will be rather conclusive. Seems Valencia has gone from being ridiculed to being rather overrated by some. It's always one extreme to another.
People still want rid of Valencia though... I wouldn't mind keeping him as a squad player but he's very far off being the answer to our right back mess.
I wasn't asking about his all round game as a defender I was referring to the comment that "99% of profesional footballers are better technically than Valencia". I was asking what in the technical department he will bring us that is so much of an upgrade on Valencia?
People are asking the question of who would you rather have as if we have the option to get Coleman on a free or are picking between them. If we want him we need to pay silly money for him that is the point and if we are going to spend that money somebody has to give me a reason why he is worth Valencia+25 million because I can't see it. Yes he might defend better but lets be honest you buy Coleman for his attacking abilities as much as anything and from what I have seen his crossing is inconsistent. A player who is in that bracket should be able to pick out a cross when he gets the chance never mind 5.
So we spend £25 million hoping to solve our RB issues and are left with a natural righ tback who can hit the first man instead of Valencia. Seriously what is the point?
Darmian would be available for 7-8M cheaper.
Who says it will be 25 million?
Says who? You work at Torino?
When we played our best football against Spurs and Liverpool Valencia was forming a triangle with Mata and Herrera that worked quite well. Valencia is by no means the weak link he is being made out to be and like most South American footballers he has very good technique and is very comfortable on the ball.
I honestly couldn't care what we spend. Why do half of you lot involve yourself in our finances so much? If Van Gaal or Ed think it's too much, they won't spend it - but otherwise they will and we'll have a quality right back in our squad.
Regarding your other question about his technical ability, the fact that he can tackle, mark and position himself much better than Valencia is much more important. Even completely ignoring that fact, all Valencia seems to do is sprint past people, Coleman's a better dribbler in tight spaces and can use both feet.
They said they want 25M euros, if knowing that means I work at Torino, then yes I do.
Even if it's £15 million i'd like to see us sign a player who can can put those final balls in consistently.
Besides that he has just signed a new deal, we saw how much Everton wanted for Baines and how much we paid for Felliani do you honestly think we will get him much cheaper?
Just so we're clear, are you saying Coleman has poor delivery based solely on the one game you saw where he messed up 5 crosses?
That they'd all want Coleman.
I don't either really but I don't like to see us use money that could be spent elsewhere on a player I don't see as solving our problems.
I wasn't so much questioning Coleman's technical ability just asking more in what way he improves us? Coleman is a better dribbler maybe but what use is that if he gets into a crossing position and still can't cross it? Whether he beats his man with speed or skill doesn't really matter it's what they do after that surely.
Coleman's not a bad crosser? He isn't the best but he can still deliver a good ball. Valencia is very limited with his crossing, he always drills it across the floor or stands it up to the back post, you rarely see him whip in a brilliant ball. He's also useless with his left foot, so he's quite predictable with his crossing.
Great right back, and he could possibly prove to be a better signing than Clyne if we get him, but unless we've been talking to Everton and Coleman's representatives behind the scenes, then I see no reason why we'd let Clyne go to Liverpool for such a low fee, when there's no guarantees Everton will sell us Coleman.
Exactly. Not even a contest.
Over the last three seasons...
Coleman: 11 goals, 9 assists
Valencia: 5 goals, 12 assists
That's while Valencia played a) more games, b) mostly as a winger as opposed to a fullback and c) for a much better side.
I think it's safe to say Coleman is a much better attacking threat at fullback than Valencia
Coleman: 11 goals, 9 assists
Valencia: 5 goals, 12 assists
That's while Valencia played a) more games, b) mostly as a winger as opposed to a fullback and c) for a much better side.
I think it's safe to say Coleman is a much better attacking threat at fullback than Valencia
I'm saying he can't consistently deliver good balls into the box.
I'm just saying as I said elsewhere i'd like somebody consistent who when he gets the ball will find a man with it. We spent enough years with Evra who could beat men for fun but couldn't follow it up with a decent ball in.
Well I'd suggest Blind indeed have the better season last year, Carrick had a nice run of performances in our winning streak. Carrick was just a bit unlucky with injuries last season though.
Besides I've already stated that stats only tell some of the story. Also agreed with other posters that they are pretty much the same defensively but Coleman offers more going forward, he certainly isn't that much better than him like others here are making out.
Your sense of national pride obviously clouding your judgement. Again, the way you and some others on here carry on you seem to suggest he is one of Europe's best RB's?!! He isn't even the best RB in the Premier League for feck sake!
Plain an simple of it is he is a solid player, a good RB but in no means is he a marked improvement on Valencia. The difference is ever so slight simply because he'll offer us more attacking options down the right flank.
He's a much better rightback than Valencia, that still doesn't make him a great rightback of course...
You'll find myself very much in the minority there.
Well I'd suggest Blind indeed have the better season last year, Carrick had a nice run of performances in our winning streak. Carrick was just a bit unlucky with injuries last season though.
Besides I've already stated that stats only tell some of the story. Also agreed with other posters that they are pretty much the same defensively but Coleman offers more going forward, he certainly isn't that much better than him like others here are making out.
Your sense of national pride obviously clouding your judgement. Again, the way you and some others on here carry on you seem to suggest he is one of Europe's best RB's?!! He isn't even the best RB in the Premier League for feck sake!
Plain an simple of it is he is a solid player, a good RB but in no means is he a marked improvement on Valencia. The difference is ever so slight simply because he'll offer us more attacking options down the right flank.
Very few (if any) of us are claiming that Coleman is some European elite fullback.
All we're saying is:
1. He's obviously better than Valencia going forward given that he has had better attacking output over the last three years despite not playing as a winger and not playing for a top side.
2. He's obviously better defensively given that he's an actual fullback as opposed to a winger who is awkwardly doing his best to adapt to a new role.
3. One of the best fullbacks in the league is obviously a better option at fullback than someone who is not in fact a fullback.
This is probably the only forum where Coleman v Valencia at fullback would even be a debate.
Evra also had a decent cross...
If you mean that I'd be in a minority, then yeah I understand that and it doesn't bother me. People on here have short term memories and are fickle. Blind had a great first half of the season and was consistent up to a couple of poor performances at the back end of the season.
Carrick's best performances were at the tail end so they are more prominent in people's mind and that usually tends to sway peoples opinions.
1) I've already agreed he'd offer more going forward
2) This is where I beg to differ, I don't see him being a marked improvement defensively. Everton's defence the previous two seasons isn't all that great. They conceded only 4 less than us in 13/14, and then conceded 13 more than us last season. Obviously its hard to pin point how much of that blame is Coleman's, hence I went with the comparison matrix and it shows per 90mins Valencia is out performing him defensively the past two seasons it seems.
3) Well the fact of the matter is, Valencia IS our RB. Yes he has adapted to the role 2 years ago, but fact is he is a fullback now so its untrue to say he is not a fullback.
@LilRicky Well he was the best RB in the league in the 13/14 season and he is definitely in the top 3 in the PL. The fact you felt the need for a green smiley there is weird. No one is saying that he's one of the best RB's in Europe so I have no idea where you got that from. And as for 'national pride'? I mean FFS, seriously? Get a grip, Rick lad. I couldn't give a toss where he's from; the fact is, he would be a massive upgrade on Valencia and we should strive to improve our squad all the time. I have acknowledged and alluded to the fact that he will be over-priced, but such is life.
Fwiw, I'm not overly fussed on signing him but I would be happy if we did. We do, however, need a RB and I expect us to sign one. Going into next season with Valencia as our first choice RB would be madness. I have nothing against him but he's a winger converted into a fullback and he doesn't fill me with any kind of confidence.
I don't see your point at all, Coleman is an upgrade on Valencia, end of. As I said, ask any neutral who they would rather have at RB between the two and your answer would be overwhelmingly convincing in Colemans favour.
Fwiw, I'm not overly fussed on signing him but I would be happy if we did. We do, however, need a RB and I expect us to sign one. Going into next season with Valencia as our first choice RB would be madness. I have nothing against him but he's a winger converted into a fullback and he doesn't fill me with any kind of confidence.
I don't see your point at all, Coleman is an upgrade on Valencia, end of. As I said, ask any neutral who they would rather have at RB between the two and your answer would be overwhelmingly convincing in Colemans favour.
Decent that's as far as I would go. All you have to do is watch Dani Alves the amount of chances he creates with precise crossing is for a full back the standard we need to be at.
I bet Coleman can take throw-ins and will touch the ball with his left foot so he'd be a 100% upgrade.
Evra was a good crosser. At one point his all round game as a fullback was utterly flawless.
I was pretty down today, thanks for the laugh.
Mmm Evra in his prime was phenomenal. Even in his latter years his offensive play was fantastic. But he was just way to many times out of position which a team like Man United can't afford.
Well yeah but you're asking for something that's very hard to find. We can't have Dani Alves or Carvajal I'm afraid, so Seamus Coleman isn't a bad second choice.
I think you've lost track of your original question a bit which was how would Coleman be any better than Valencia. Attacking wise he is and defensively he is. If that wasn't your question, which I think was more about the technical side, then those two points still apply.
Probably was yeah, but then again Rafael was there or there abouts the season before.
Your banging on about him as if he is one of Europe's best, he isn't. Yourself and others are making statements of him being a "massive upgrade" on Valencia, personally I don't see it being a huge improvement. Valencia's downfall he is one dimensional going forward, which is massively frustrating for us as supporters. If he worked on his left peg a bit or even tried a different trick every now and again it'd help.
I do agree we need a RB, ideally an upgrade on him and the obvious choice was Alves but that was never likely. The options aren't great at the moment for RB, unless we throw money at the club in question and if were going to do that we should be looking past Coleman.