Scott McTominay | Napoli

Yeah, at the end of the day he probably wasn't good enough and we got rid of him for a good fee, but he was never as bad as most United fans wanted you to believe. The reversal to this fawning doey eyed well wishing now he's gone is remarkable.

I also do think he got a lot of stick for being a good club man and trying to do what's asked of him. @Pogue Mahone and @Beachryan point out his lack of involvement under ten Hag, but the truth is every player that has played next to Casemiro has really struggled to get involved in games. Sabitzer was equally ethereal, and Mainoo is, for all his quality, not influencing games as much as he could be. Eriksen has the best numbers here from his first season, but we were also setting up a bit differently then.

All of that is to say, that ten Hag's suicide midfield doesn't really get the best out of anyone and the lack of involvement of his 8 in general play does seem to be a feature not a bug. McTominay has never been great at this, but I don't think he should be completely tarred with ten Hag's shitty brush.
His lack of involvement has been an issue throughout his entire career. He's always got on the ball, passed the ball, made himself available to receive the ball, etc, significantly less than all our other midfielders. Bar the odd period here and there, playing Scott in midfield has always placed an unfair amount of pressure on his partner to do...well, basically everything themselves. Fred most obviously, where he was somehow having to be our main presser, main ball-winner and the main deeper playmaker and creative passer all at the same time (the latter of which he obviously wasn't good enough but had to do it as he was still much better than McTominay).

It did become worse under ETH, but Scott being weak at all the most important aspects you want in a midfielder has always been an issue. Our even bigger problem was that for long periods of time all our other options were even worse, so despite his limitations he was rightfully in the starting line-up at the time. I've generally never had a problem with managers picking him on a game-to-game basis because of that, but more that we never focused enough on bringing in the right players that we needed instead.

Scott does have his strengths and they are great bonuses to have for a midfielder, but the key word there is 'bonuses'. They can't be the only thing that he is good at while being average or worse at the basics, which unfortunately is how it's normally been.
 
McTominay playing well for Scotland isn't new though. He got a brace against Spain and a few days later he was shite for us against Newcastle when we lost 2-0, and then shite again when we stumbled to a 1-0 win against Brentford.
Funny that, almost like it's maybe almost a team issue rather than a player one?
 
He absolutely ran the show last night, always a threat, great work rate, good link up play against a good Poland side.

He will be missed here, especially of Ugarte doesn't hit the ground running.
Absolutely did not run the show
 
Do you think Poland are as good as Liverpool?

Gravenberch and McAllister are lightyears ahead of McTominay
No I don't, but McTominay would have offered a lot more than Casemiro in that game for sure.
 
Funny that, almost like it's maybe almost a team issue rather than a player one?
What's your point though? Because if we still had McTominay he would be playing in the same team under the same manager that we have right now. He wouldn't be the one to make a difference, as shown by the example above.
 
What's your point though? Because if we still had McTominay he would be playing in the same team under the same manager that we have right now. He wouldn't be the one to make a difference, as shown by the example above.
Pidge, what did you make of the game last night? Bloody Hanley. Can't help but feel Clarke should have went after the Euros.
 
Absolutely did not run the show
Just look at any player ratings on any publications today and I think you'll see McTominay got the highest rating of any Scotland player....
 
No I don't, but McTominay would have offered a lot more than Casemiro in that game for sure.

He had a shit game so that goes for most players.

But firstly McTom would be unlikely to be taking the ball off the CBs and secondly he's not particularly good at it, so either we'd have had more trouble playing out from the back because he isnt making himself available or he'd be a prime target for their pressing like Casemiro was. So he would likely have had a poor game even by his own standards.

He would have been useful off the bench as a goal threat. Might have done the same or better with Zirkzee's shot and header

Edit - Also a reminder he came off the bench to play 32 mins in our 7 - 0 defeat to Liverpool. We were 3 - 0 down at the time and then conceeded another 4. So the idea that he'd have made the difference is laughable
 
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Pidge, what did you make of the game last night? Bloody Hanley. Can't help but feel Clarke should have went after the Euros.
I missed it last night, fortunately. Going to get some time to watch it tonight whilst smacking my balls with a hammer.

Clarke is just a non entity at this point for me but I'm not too sure who should take over. You?
 
Just look at any player ratings on any publications today and I think you'll see McTominay got the highest rating of any Scotland player....
Which does not mean he ran the show, just that he was the best player in a losing team. I was a stadium last night and he was pretty good, but Poland went through Scotland's midfield all of first half like it was butter and it had much to do with McTominay's positioning (which looked like a deliberate coaching decision).
 
I missed it last night, fortunately. Going to get some time to watch it tonight whilst smacking my balls with a hammer.

Clarke is just a non entity at this point for me but I'm not too sure who should take over. You?
:lol:

Definitely haven't a clue who should take over but there needs to be a change. We actually played alright second half and restricted Poland to very little but picking the same players over and over and the same problems is gonna get us nowhere.
 
Mainoo has a lot of involvement. He is our main ball winner this season.

2.7 tackles
3.7 interceptions
43 passes
0 key passes
0.3 shots
3.4 successful dribbles per 90 mins

Doing a great job overall as one of our 2 DMs

Last year with a bigger sample size those numbers are much worse, and I would argue particularly the stats on the ball aren't great still.

That's not to slag Mainoo off, he's finding his feet and has shown more than anyone else in that role, but it does illustrate that even someone who is performing well doesnt get a lot of volume in that role. Some players will get it because they demand the ball more and want to be involved more, but for whatever reason if you look at the stats of players playing there under ten Hag he does not seem to care whether they're influential in possession or not.

McTominay was similarly peripheral under Ole, so we can’t blame this all on Ten Haag. We can’t ignore the years of everyone moaning about how badly we needed to upgrade McFred and use their departure as another stick to beat the manager who finally moved them on.

There’s more than enough reasons to have a go at Ten Haag. Let’s not add moving a player on who we all wanted moved on to that list.

His lack of involvement has been an issue throughout his entire career. He's always got on the ball, passed the ball, made himself available to receive the ball, etc, significantly less than all our other midfielders. Bar the odd period here and there, playing Scott in midfield has always placed an unfair amount of pressure on his partner to do...well, basically everything themselves. Fred most obviously, where he was somehow having to be our main presser, main ball-winner and the main deeper playmaker and creative passer all at the same time (the latter of which he obviously wasn't good enough but had to do it as he was still much better than McTominay).

It did become worse under ETH, but Scott being weak at all the most important aspects you want in a midfielder has always been an issue. Our even bigger problem was that for long periods of time all our other options were even worse, so despite his limitations he was rightfully in the starting line-up at the time. I've generally never had a problem with managers picking him on a game-to-game basis because of that, but more that we never focused enough on bringing in the right players that we needed instead.

Scott does have his strengths and they are great bonuses to have for a midfielder, but the key word there is 'bonuses'. They can't be the only thing that he is good at while being average or worse at the basics, which unfortunately is how it's normally been.

I agree with both of you that it's not a case of pre ten Hag = good during ten Hag = bad nor an excuse to keep him, but the difference is nevertheless marked. Just taking passes per game as a metric he went from averaging around 40 in the two seasons before to less than 20 averaged out over the two seasons under him.

It's clearly never been a strength of his (I'd even argue you might not want McTominay to see much of the ball) but there is significant regression under ten Hag to suggest it's a tactical plan and other players are similarly impacted by it. It is right that he has gone, but there's a reason why ten Hag was keen to keep him and that's because he was discharging the role in an acceptable manner to him. That's bonkers to me, but so are most things ten Hag does.
 
Did you watch last night's game?
Could have done with that in midfield against Liverpool.
But nevermind eh.

No, why would anyone watch a Scotland game that isn't Scottish? Aside from that I don't watch Euros or the World Cup, national teams don't do it for me.

And - of course - things would have been so so different against Liverpool if only Balloon d'Or McTominay would have played for us. If only.

Same fantasy a lot of people had when Fletcher was red card-banned from the final against Barcelona. Remember those days? CL finals, standards.

"If only", "things would have been different".
"Fletcher would have won us the game" - against prime Barcelona.

I understand that opinions in football are very subjective, but these delusional ideas are something else.

But nevermind, eh? Nevermind.
 
McTominay and Maguire before him showcase the toxic group-think that is one of the greats gifts of social media. We had idiots last year actively bemoaning him scoring, claiming those goals were holding Utd back, putting all the failures of Ten Hags inept midfield set up on McTominay. People were arguing that him pushing so high was a sign of him hiding from the ball, individually wrecking the team set up, not down to tactical instructions, and it took repeated examples of Mount and Mainoo playing exactly the same way in that 3rd midfield role before that nonsense died down.

Scooby Doo, McTalentless, McShit, Championship player, meme repeating sheep. He was a decent squad player with limitations who followed instruction to a tee, hence being popular with a number of managers and Conte wanting him.

Rashford is well set to take that role this season, will be blamed for others failing as well as his own, and god forbid Maguire gets selected over De Ligt/Lisandro or Yoro.
 
after seeing people somehow pine for elanga, im fully expecting any little thing Scott does at napoli get blown up into something magnificent that we are missing out on here.
 
A lot of people on here are so full of shit it's laughable. The abuse this bloke got, and now so many saying "we will miss him" etc. Half of this forum simply don't deserve to have loyal players like him at the club, he got so such much stick.
I have defended him and will keep defending. Underrated player that deserved more credit. Not worse than some of 100m central midfield signings 2 years ago. Wish him all the best.
 
No, why would anyone watch a Scotland game that isn't Scottish? Aside from that I don't watch Euros or the World Cup, national teams don't do it for me.

And - of course - things would have been so so different against Liverpool if only Balloon d'Or McTominay would have played for us. If only.

Same fantasy a lot of people had when Fletcher was red card-banned from the final against Barcelona. Remember those days? CL finals, standards.

"If only", "things would have been different".
"Fletcher would have won us the game" - against prime Barcelona.

I understand that opinions in football are very subjective, but these delusional ideas are something else.

But nevermind, eh? Nevermind.

Fletcher was a huge miss against Barca, not that we'd have won or anything, but yeah.
 
No, why would anyone watch a Scotland game that isn't Scottish? Aside from that I don't watch Euros or the World Cup, national teams don't do it for me.

And - of course - things would have been so so different against Liverpool if only Balloon d'Or McTominay would have played for us. If only.

Same fantasy a lot of people had when Fletcher was red card-banned from the final against Barcelona. Remember those days? CL finals, standards.

"If only", "things would have been different".
"Fletcher would have won us the game" - against prime Barcelona.

I understand that opinions in football are very subjective, but these delusional ideas are something else.

But nevermind, eh? Nevermind.
Maybe you'd watch because it's a football game, and you're interested in the sport, just a thought.
The fact you have to reduce yourself to polar opposite arguments suggests you are running on empty here.
Is McTominay the best player ever, course not but then no one has stated that or even come close to it.
You are delusional if you think that McTominay wouldn't have offered better than Casemiro in that Liverpool game. Especially given his recent Scotland performance which obviously you didn't watch and so can't comment on at all.

It's clear and obvious you don't like McTominay, but it really shouldn't cloud your judgement, he can be a useful player as well as not being the best in the world. You talk about standards yet SAF had players like O Shea, P.Neville, Park, Fortune, Smith etc etc all squad players who weren't the best but were trusted by the manager.
It's interesting you bring up Fletcher, as Sir Alex actually stated that McTominay reminded him of Darren. But nevermind. Standards etc.
 
So depressing reading this thread that even after McTominay has left the club, most posters are inserting little digs here and there in their posts about how bad and limited he is, etc. Just to push their casual takes and agendas against him. :lol:

He's a good player and has all the tools to be one of Napoli's, and I'd go as far as to say be one of Serie A's best players.

Is he good enough to make the strongest XI for a team that's aiming to win the Premier League and Champions League? No, I don't think so, but he has a lot of good and valuable qualities, and despite me thinking either now or 2025 was a good time to let him go, he still could've contributed to the team had he stayed.

There's a decent chance he will silence all the critics this season. Conte will know how to use him.
 
after seeing people somehow pine for elanga, im fully expecting any little thing Scott does at napoli get blown up into something magnificent that we are missing out on here.

Both are very good players, and you should rate them both. But that doesn't mean letting them go when we did was a bad decision.
 
So depressing reading this thread that even after McTominay has left the club, most posters are inserting little digs here and there in their posts about how bad and limited he is, etc. Just to push their casual takes and agendas against him. :lol:

He's a good player and has all the tools to be one of Napoli's, and I'd go as far as to say be one of Serie A's best players.

Is he good enough to make the strongest XI for a team that's aiming to win the Premier League and Champions League? No, I don't think so, but he has a lot of good and valuable qualities, and despite me thinking either now or 2025 was a good time to let him go, he still could've contributed to the team had he stayed.

There's a decent chance he will silence all the critics this season. Conte will know how to use him.
Its really pathetic.
A player leaves the club and the moment anyone says anything relatively nice about a recent game and the same crew all come racing in like a herd of stumbling bison to make sure nobody forgets their opinion was said player was shite. Its happening in the other threads of players who left. Its happening to players who left without creating a shit storm and never disrespected the club.
It says more about the posters than it does the actual players.
 
Good for him to get away, we United fans have some serious issues when it comes to our players. McT has some really useful attributes and is United through and through. Tough luck for him that he came up from the academy during these fecking times. He should be getting love but hate, but I wish him all the best and hope he enjoys his time in Italy, Napoli fans will love him and what he offers.
 
Good for him to get away, we United fans have some serious issues when it comes to our players. McT has some really useful attributes and is United through and through. Tough luck for him that he came up from the academy during these fecking times. He should be getting love but hate, but I wish him all the best and hope he enjoys his time in Italy, Napoli fans will love him and what he offers.
I think it’s an online fan thing mostly. United fans I speak to in real life have a lot of love for MCT, and a lot think we should have kept him. Like you said he’s a useful player and I don’t doubt that Conte will like him a lot at Napoli.
 
So depressing reading this thread that even after McTominay has left the club, most posters are inserting little digs here and there in their posts about how bad and limited he is, etc. Just to push their casual takes and agendas against him. :lol:

He's a good player and has all the tools to be one of Napoli's, and I'd go as far as to say be one of Serie A's best players..
Bold claim that. Would be waiting to see if that happens. Personally, i don’t think he’s good enough at all.
 
So depressing reading this thread that even after McTominay has left the club, most posters are inserting little digs here and there in their posts about how bad and limited he is, etc. Just to push their casual takes and agendas against him. :lol:

He's a good player and has all the tools to be one of Napoli's, and I'd go as far as to say be one of Serie A's best players.


Is he good enough to make the strongest XI for a team that's aiming to win the Premier League and Champions League? No, I don't think so, but he has a lot of good and valuable qualities, and despite me thinking either now or 2025 was a good time to let him go, he still could've contributed to the team had he stayed.

There's a decent chance he will silence all the critics this season. Conte will know how to use him.

I'll go the other way. I think Gilmour and Anguissa will end up Napoli's midfield with Scott coming on as a goal threat from the bench and being tried in forward positions trying to use him as something other than a midfielder.
 
Maybe you'd watch because it's a football game, and you're interested in the sport, just a thought.
The fact you have to reduce yourself to polar opposite arguments suggests you are running on empty here.
Is McTominay the best player ever, course not but then no one has stated that or even come close to it.
You are delusional if you think that McTominay wouldn't have offered better than Casemiro in that Liverpool game. Especially given his recent Scotland performance which obviously you didn't watch and so can't comment on at all.

It's clear and obvious you don't like McTominay, but it really shouldn't cloud your judgement, he can be a useful player as well as not being the best in the world. You talk about standards yet SAF had players like O Shea, P.Neville, Park, Fortune, Smith etc etc all squad players who weren't the best but were trusted by the manager.
It's interesting you bring up Fletcher, as Sir Alex actually stated that McTominay reminded him of Darren. But nevermind. Standards etc.

He regularly came back from international duty and then played poorly. Yet you keep saying with such certainty that this time around it would be different. Come on!
 
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I'll go the other way. I think Gilmour and Anguissa will end up Napoli's midfield with Scott coming on as a goal threat from the bench and being tried in forward positions trying to use him as something other than a midfielder.
I suspect you’ll end up being closer to the reality. I like McTominay, but his flaws as a midfielder haven’t disappeared just because he’s moved to Italy.
 
You’d swear we just sold Gazza

I like McTominay the person, but he is limited as a central midfielder. Hopefully conte can develop him. Good luck to the lad, I hope that he smashes it there and lives a nice happy life
 
You’d swear we just sold Gazza

I like McTominay the person, but he is limited as a central midfielder. Hopefully conte can develop him. Good luck to the lad, I hope that he smashes it there and lives a nice happy life
He’ll be loving it there more than here that’s for sure. They’ll actually pick up a lot of wins and probably finish top 4.
 
Maybe you'd watch because it's a football game, and you're interested in the sport, just a thought.

As I have stated previously, I don't watch national teams. Your remark about my interest in the sport shows clearly that you are not paying attention.

If my interest would somehow go beyond that, I certainly would not choose to watch Scotland vs Poland. No one cares about a game like that aside from people from Scotland and Poland.

The fact you have to reduce yourself to polar opposite arguments suggests you are running on empty here.

Those "opposite arguments" state my position. That's different. More on your faulty logic as we go along.

Is McTominay the best player ever, course not but then no one has stated that or even come close to it.

Here we go. You're arguing against something that I didn't argue for. How great Scotty was or wasn't, is not the topic at hand.

You are delusional if you think that McTominay wouldn't have offered better than Casemiro in that Liverpool game. Especially given his recent Scotland performance which obviously you didn't watch and so can't comment on at all.

Delusional, ok. Do you know what that word means? Let me explain:

Your position is that before the game started you would have picked McTominay over Casemiro.

You're saying that among those two players Scotty is the better choice.

You're implying that you knew that Casemiro would have a very bad day and therefore Scotty starting would mean that Scotty would have delivered a better performance.

What recent Scotland performances? When was that, months ago and that is your argument that his "recent performances" would put him ahead of Casemiro?

That is pretty delusional.

It's clear and obvious you don't like McTominay, but it really shouldn't cloud your judgement, he can be a useful player as well as not being the best in the world.

I don't like the player, I don't care about the person. Useful players don't have to be the best in the world. I didn't say what you're implying.

My issue with Scotty is moreso what he, Maguire, Lingard and the other useful players stood for. Mediocrity. Failure. Embarrassment. Lack of everything. They symbolised our downfall. They marked our new level.

You talk about standards yet SAF had players like O Shea, P.Neville, Park, Fortune, Smith etc etc all squad players who weren't the best but were trusted by the manager.

Yes, I talk about standards. Specifically the ones we lost along the way.

SAF had standards and he had useful players. I believe Park was a level above the ones you mentioned, but I'll take the others.

They weren't great players but they worked in the SAF system. What was his system? To make the team stronger than the sum of it's parts. That's one of the most important things that set him apart. That's what we're lacking today (among many other things).

Under *********** Ten Hag the team is weaker than the sum of it's parts. Ten Hag is a disaster.

It's interesting you bring up Fletcher, as Sir Alex actually stated that McTominay reminded him of Darren.

It's really interesting, fascinating even. SAF thinking of Fletcher is what, an absolution?

It's meaningless. Meaningless because McTominay reminded me of Fletcher right away, too. A limited player, not starter material, an option from the bench in cup games. That's it.

It could have worked under SAF and I mean that. Darren Gibson and Tom Cleverly worked under SAF. They started CL games.

In reality *********** Ten Hag is not SAF and therefore

a) I don't trust the *********** and

b) Pele McTominay never worked out.

I'm glad he is gone.

I get it though - people like you had a vision right before the Liverpool game and would have picked Scotty ahead of Casemiro, based on merit.

But nevermind. Standards etc.

Yeah, standards. Some have them, some don't, some lost them and some are just confused about the world we're living in.
 
He really shows up in big games.

Poland, Spain and now Portugal.
 
Remember, it is a myth that he is a goalscorer, and yes ignore that last season was the first he has played purely as an attacker and that he played CB for the first half of his Scotland career, if he was a real goalscorer he would still have scored.
 
Switched over and see Scotland are 1 up. You just know at this stage who scored.