[MadDogg]

I think it was because he was part of mcfred duo lumped together, but it was really Fred doing the hard work.

Yep. Many of us always said that, but way too many people (and, probably more importantly, the media) would constantly talk about them as if they were a similar level.

In reality Fred was always a much harder worker as well as being much better on the ball. Even though he was the one who played out of position for almost the entire time they played together he was still comfortably the better, something that became even more obvious when we swapped their positions so Fred had more freedom to get around the pitch.

 

[Borys]

It's also worse when you consider that the best run of form last season was when he benched him. He rightly decided he wasn't good enough technically and some combination of Casemiro, Fred and Eriksen in deep midfield led to 75 points in the league, Europa League win over Barca, League Cup etc.

Then he's back in the team as a key player and we've lost more games than we've won, out of both cup competitions entered.

yeah but he scores goals

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yep. Many of us always said that, but way too many people (and, probably more importantly, the media) would constantly talk about them as if they were a similar level.

In reality Fred was always a much harder worker as well as being much better on the ball. Even though he was the one who played out of position for almost the entire time they played together he was still comfortably the better, something that became even more obvious when we swapped their positions so Fred had more freedom to get around the pitch.

Yeah 100%. The Fred vs McT debate should never have been a debate.

Needless to say Fred is having a phenomenal season at his new club. Unbeaten with him in the team, struggling on the rare occasion he's unavailable.

 

[jeepers]

I've stopped watching ever since EtH started starting him.

 

[MadDogg]

Needless to say Fred is having a phenomenal season at his new club. Unbeaten with him in the team, struggling on the rare occasion he's unavailable.

That's great to hear. I haven't followed Fred at all so it's good to see he's doing well.

Hell, just looked it up and not only are they unbeaten, they've literally won every single game he's played in all competitions. Meanwhile they've only won 3 of the 7 that he hasn't played, with 1 draw and 3 losses. No idea how heavily he's contributed to that record, but it certainly looks impressive.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That's great to hear. I haven't followed Fred at all so it's good to see he's doing well.

Hell, just looked it up and not only are they unbeaten, they've literally won every single game he's played in all competitions. Meanwhile they've only won 3 of the 7 that he hasn't played, with 1 draw and 3 losses. No idea how heavily he's contributed to that record, but it certainly looks impressive.

I do have some sympathy with the idea that he needed to be moved on. As the good Fred/bad Fred schizophrenia must have been a pain in the arse for any manager to plan around. But you also couldn’t ignore that on the very few occasions we looked a match for legitimate quality opposition it almost always involved a monster performance from Fred. And we were always going to miss that when he was gone. We needed to be absolutely sure we had someone in our squad who could do what he did, only on a more consistent level. I guess that person was supposed to be Mount? Because it sure as shit isn’t McTominay.

 

[Lyng]

Playing McT is actively hurting our team at the moment. I would argue that we would score more without him shoehorned in.
Having Amrabat next to Mainoo would free up Bruno to do what he does best instead of forcing him away from where he is most effective.
Its the one thing that makes me question Ten Hag quite frankly.

 

[Mike Smalling]

McTominay is like a microcosm of our season of false dawns. He scores two goals against Chelsea and pumps his chest about how they knew it wasn't good enough against Newcastle and they need to show consistency. He then promptly goes on to play crap in the next two games, both of which we lose.

 

[Oldyella]

McTominay is like a microcosm of our season of false dawns. He scores two goals against Chelsea and pumps his chest about how they knew it wasn't good enough against Newcastle and they need to show consistency. He then promptly goes on to play crap in the next two games, both of which we lose.

So true

 

[NinjaZombie]

Why is he still playing? It's a big reason why I'm losing faith in Ten Hag. Guy is cumbersome even deeper in midfield. Having him up higher where there is less space and time makes it all the more obvious.

He can't play 6. He's barely passable as 8. He's not a 10. Why is he still getting starts?

When is Mount coming back? If ETH insists on Bruno playing deeper, I'd like to see Mount playing in place of McTominay.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

I do have some sympathy with the idea that he needed to be moved on. As the good Fred/bad Fred schizophrenia must have been a pain in the arse for any manager to plan around. But you also couldn’t ignore that on the very few occasions we looked a match for legitimate quality opposition it almost always involved a monster performance from Fred. And we were always going to miss that when he was gone. We needed to be absolutely sure we had someone in our squad who could do what he did, only on a more consistent level. I guess that person was supposed to be Mount? Because it sure as shit isn’t McTominay.

Fred's performances in the games against Barcelona last season were several times better all-round midfield displays than McTominay is capable of even on his best day. It frustrates me also that Casemiro and Fred had an understanding from playing with Brazil yet played only a limited number of games together. Missed opportunity. I understand why he was let go when the contract was up but didn't realise that McTominay would essentially be the replacement.

 

[MadDogg]

I do have some sympathy with the idea that he needed to be moved on. As the good Fred/bad Fred schizophrenia must have been a pain in the arse for any manager to plan around. But you also couldn’t ignore that on the very few occasions we looked a match for legitimate quality opposition it almost always involved a monster performance from Fred. And we were always going to miss that when he was gone. We needed to be absolutely sure we had someone in our squad who could do what he did, only on a more consistent level. I guess that person was supposed to be Mount? Because it sure as shit isn’t McTominay.

The good/bad thing was always overexaggerated with Fred. Sure he wasn't perfectly consistent, but there's always been plenty of players in the squad who were more inconsistent that never got that reputation to the same degree (his partner McTominay for one). Hell, if you limit it to just his last 18 months when Rangnick and ETH started playing him in the position he always should have been in, Fred was actually one of our more consistent players. Our best bar none under Rangnick, then after a rough first month or so he was then quite good for the rest of the season under ETH. The one big exception was when he had an absolute horror match against Leeds, which was also the one match ETH tried playing him as the main DM again which obviously didn't work.

Like you I was ok with selling him, but more so because players of his style are likely to decline earlier and at the age of 30 it wouldn't surprise to happen fairly soon. But it was never going to be as easy to replace him as people made out. And if it was a choice between keeping one of Fred or Scott it was obvious it should have been the former.

 

[Mike Smalling]

The good/bad thing was always overexaggerated with Fred. Sure he wasn't perfectly consistent, but there's always been plenty of players in the squad who were more inconsistent that never got that reputation to the same degree (his partner McTominay for one). Hell, if you limit it to just his last 18 months when Rangnick and ETH started playing him in the position he always should have been in, Fred was actually one of our more consistent players. Our best bar none under Rangnick, then after a rough first month or so he was then quite good for the rest of the season under ETH. The one big exception was when he had an absolute horror match against Leeds, which was also the one match ETH tried playing him as the main DM again which obviously didn't work.

Like you I was ok with selling him, but more so because players of his style are likely to decline earlier and at the age of 30 it wouldn't surprise to happen fairly soon. But it was never going to be as easy to replace him as people made out. And if it was a choice between keeping one of Fred or Scott it was obvious it should have been the former.

Fred's reputation suffered from him having the odd brainfart moment that would look really, really bad. Like him passing the ball over the sideline nowhere near a teammate, and stuff like that. The bad aspects to McTominays game are less visible (like hiding from the ball, being cumbersome in possession, easily run past, etc.), while his good moments (scoring goals) will get a lot of attention. In reality Fred was a much more predictably useful player.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The good/bad thing was always overexaggerated with Fred. Sure he wasn't perfectly consistent, but there's always been plenty of players in the squad who were more inconsistent that never got that reputation to the same degree (his partner McTominay for one). Hell, if you limit it to just his last 18 months when Rangnick and ETH started playing him in the position he always should have been in, Fred was actually one of our more consistent players. Our best bar none under Rangnick, then after a rough first month or so he was then quite good for the rest of the season under ETH. The one big exception was when he had an absolute horror match against Leeds, which was also the one match ETH tried playing him as the main DM again which obviously didn't work.

Like you I was ok with selling him, but more so because players of his style are likely to decline earlier and at the age of 30 it wouldn't surprise to happen fairly soon. But it was never going to be as easy to replace him as people made out. And if it was a choice between keeping one of Fred or Scott it was obvious it should have been the former.

The other thing with Fred is his incredible resistance to injury. Players like that are so valuable. Especially in a squad like ours that is so full of players made of glass.

 

[clarkydaz]

McTominay is like a microcosm of our season of false dawns. He scores two goals against Chelsea and pumps his chest about how they knew it wasn't good enough against Newcastle and they need to show consistency. He then promptly goes on to play crap in the next two games, both of which we lose.

dont forget the 'play like you mean it banner'. Maybe the lack of consistency of fans holding up instructions is seeping in to the playing squad

 

[massey]

Why we got rid of Fred for him I never understood he's effectively pulled Fernandes away from his best position and occupying it himself whilst doing sod all else.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

Why we got rid of Fred for him I never understood he's effectively pulled Fernandes away from his best position and occupying it himself whilst doing sod all else.

the problem wasnt getting rid of fred for him, it was keeping either of them when we shouldve sold them both and brought in better reinforcements for the middle. We sell them both and instead of splurging it all on Mount we scout a bit better and couldve had 2 quality signings in there.

 

[edgecutter]

Can't believe we turned down 30 million for him

 

[TMDaines]

This is a stat. I think McTominay has his uses, but he evidently has his weaknesses.

 

[Mingus]

A big consideration of why he's being played is the lack of height in the rest of the side unfortunately, especially in the PL.

If Casemiro has been available then McT isn't needed as much. This issue will be even more apparent without Maguire to defend corners.

You only have to look at the struggles of Chelsea this season to see how important this is. He will play, if fit, against Liverpool.

 

[massey]

the problem wasnt getting rid of fred for him, it was keeping either of them when we shouldve sold them both and brought in better reinforcements for the middle. We sell them both and instead of splurging it all on Mount we scout a bit better and couldve had 2 quality signings in there.

I totally agree with what you said I was possibly thinking of the lesser of two evils I could see how open we are in midfield with Scott for years and Fred for all his frustrations atleast put himself about but true we needed two better players for sure.

 

[Pughnichi]

I just can’t comprehend why when a new manager comes in he doesn’t just walk right up to him and tell him to ask his agent to find a new club…you’re not in my plans

 

[In Rainbows]

This is a stat. I think McTominay has his uses, but he evidently has his weaknesses.

It's what we all know. McTominay in the bottom left. Even with someone in a role like McTominay's where the player gets less involved, you would think you would want someone much more capable on the ball so that they would be trusted with springing attacks through the middle or the wings. With McTominay, you already know he's not going to be able to string the attack together, apart from a safe pass to the wing every time because he doesn't have the ability to turn with the ball, dribble, or give a final pass. There is no unpredictability in the overload. The whole point of the overload is to give us more attacking opportunities, and we're stuck with someone who nullifies the whole point of the tactic that allows the opposition to get back into defensive shape.

 

[Ish]

In fairness we struggled to control games without him in the team.

Yeah, no doubt. It’s just two separate issues - and we need to move on from/resolve both if we want to compete at the top again, IMO.

 

[RedUnited86]

Tries to sell him all summer then relies on him and makes him captain.

Ten Hag is something else.

 

[Reapersoul20]

Tries to sell him all summer then relies on him and makes him captain.

Ten Hag is something else.

Or else that was tabloid shite? Also, managers are allowed to change their minds. Especially when the rest of the team goes to shite and McTom is scoring from all angles!

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Standards are low when he's the captain.

 

[Skills]

Rewarded for that performance & effort he put in midweek

 

[Irwin99]

Can't believe we turned down 30 million for him

Regardless of his performance today, which i hope will be a good one, i do think we might regret that especially if some new manager comes in and, as we've seen MANY times before, decides to give a player another chance. That's probably the highest offer we're ever going to get for him.

 

[Cantona’s Kung Fu Kick]

Or else that was tabloid shite? Also, managers are allowed to change their minds. Especially when the rest of the team goes to shite and McTom is scoring from all angles!

Scoring from all angles? Literally did it in 2 games. We’ve fallen a very long way when he is given the captaincy.

 

[edgecutter]

He's now in the number 10 position which many of his supporters wanted him, so let's see what he does. I honestly think we'll be playing with 10 men again, but at least he won't be expected to do any defensive work.

 

[bdspeedy]

Who the F is McTom's agent that gets him shoved down our throats week after week for years now? Totally on brand for the frauds running our team into the ground. We are officially insane. Insanity to keep with the same headless chickens and expect a different result. I'd be delighted to be proven wrong. Having said that, brace for Rashford off the bench?

 

[edgecutter]

Who the F is McTom's agent that gets him shoved down our throats week after week for years now? Totally on brand for the frauds running our team into the ground. We are officially insane. Insanity to keep with the same headless chickens and expect a different result. I'd be delighted to be proven wrong. Having said that, brace for Rashford off the bench?

He has the right attitude which shows the level of toxicity at the club. That's the only reason he's still here. Any other club he would have been sold to a championship level side

 

[Skills]

He has the right attitude which shows the level of toxicity at the club. That's the only reason he's still here. Any other club he would have been sold to a championship level side

He doesn't do any defensive work, half arsed a tackle on the weekend in the build up to Bayern's goal, is incredible self-ish in the final 3rd. "Right attitude"

 

[FerociousCorgis]

Brilliant by eth, boosting Mctominay value in transfer market. Must be the reason

 

[LARulz]

Varane, Evans or Shaw are the only people I guess you could make an argument for to be captain. Varane though is in the bad books, Evans being captain after coming back would be comical but Shaw I think is a fair shout

McTominay gets it essentially for just showing passion. I like him but he is essentially a Fellani type player, a menace for the opposition in their box, and a menace everywhere else for us

 

[Bwuk]

He was always going to be captain today. I'm not sure why people are acting surprised.

Ten Hag clearly fallen out with Varane. Shaw is the only other debatable option.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

We sacrificed our attacking play today with him.

 

[edgecutter]

We were lucky they were off it today, because himand Amarbat were passengers in that midfield.

 

[Scandi Red]

I'm not convinced that he's a footballer.