[Pogue Mahone]

My main bone of contention is these kinds of people seem to think that ManchesterUUnited don't have a technical department that don't analyse matches, etc.

They do.

If Scott McTominay was "hiding" he would be told as much.



Why last season? He only started 10 EPL matches last season.

It's not obvious.

Mason Mount has started two EPL matches this season. He's had a combined 57 touches with 32 successful passes. in the same matches Casemiro has had 141 touches and 80 successful passes.

Does Mason Mount hide from the ball? Do those contrasting numbers make it obvious that he hides?

People also say that United should sell him. This smacks of agenda. He's not starting matches or even coming on as a sub. Is he hiding on the bench? is he putting off his team-mates?

People are stuck in the past. We don't have a Keane or a Scholes or an Ince or a Robson. If we sell McTominay who do we have? Eriksen, Mount (injured) and Casemiro.

Not exactly strength in depth.

Not just last season, no. The issue goes back several seasons. Although, obviously, last season’s poor performances are freshest in the mind.

McT plays the same position as Casemiro so should rack up numbers much more similar to him than Mount. Plus, in case you missed it, literally nobody is happy with Mount’s contribution so far.

And of course if we get rid of McT we need a replacement. That doesn’t make him any less bad at his job.

 

[MasterDarcy]

McT plays the same position as Casemiro so should rack up numbers much more similar to him than Mount. Plus, in case you missed it, literally nobody is happy with Mount’s contribution so far.

If you put a cat in a field and told it to act like a cow it would still act like a cat.

Put Bruno in the anchorman position (no 6) and he would rank up the same numbers as McTominay does. Maybe worse.

Mason Mount is playing as a no 8. He's a no 10. And his numbers are worse than McTominay's.

McTominay is a traditional no 8. A box to box midfielder. He's playing there for Scotland and he's currently the second highest scorer in the European Championships qualifiers.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If you put a cat in a field and told it to act like a cow it would still act like a cat.

Put Bruno in the anchorman position (no 6) and he would rank up the same numbers as McTominay does. Maybe worse.

Mason Mount is playing as a no 8. He's a no 10. And his numbers are worse than McTominay's.

McTominay is a traditional no 8. A box to box midfielder. He's playing there for Scotland and he's currently the second highest scorer in the European Championships qualifiers.

McT’s stats in terms of touches and passes have been poor no matter how he’s been used in central midfield for us, under ETH and previous managers.

Dunno what goals have to do with what we’re talking about. Which is how poor he is at making himself available for passes, while playing a position where that’s one of the most important tasks.

 

[MasterDarcy]

McT’s stats in terms of touches and passes have been poor no matter how he’s been used in central midfield for us, under ETH and previous managers.

Dunno what goals have to do with what we’re talking about. Which is how poor he is at making himself available for passes, while playing a position where that’s one of the most important tasks.

As far as memory serves McTominay has always played in a deep position for United. With all four managers.

I recall he played a match against Leeds in a more advanced role and he scored two within about 3 minutes. And would've got a hat trick if Bruno wasn't a selfish dick who insisted on taking a penalty.

He contributes more when in an advanced role. In the past 3 Scotland matches He's scored 3 and been involved in 2 goals.

McTominay is not a deep lying player. He just isn't. Put Bruno as a no 6 and he'll be even worse than McTominay.

Buy someone like Rodri and Kimmich and Gilmour and they'll eclipse Casemiro's numbers.

 

[DWelbz19]

What's up with those new accounts that pop up every few months specifically to defend McTominay?

The one guy in this thread has to be affiliated with McTominay in some way, only explanation.

 

[Tinúviel]

It's not my problem. I don't have a problem. You've actually got it backwards. I would say that the vast majority of people here just copy and paste the opinions of others where it comes to McTominay.

People are using a soundbite of Roy Keane and running with it. So, you have the whole thing backwards.

Taking a whole career and wittle it down to a 21 second clip? Brilliant analysis.

Have you ever heard of "marking the opposition as to stop them closing down your team-mate"? It's a counter pressuring technique. Many players do it. I saw Rice do it a few times against Nottingham Forest a few weeks ago.

There you have it? A basic misunderstanding of coaching by a few armchair analysists.

Not really. If no expert has ever said what these aforementioned fans are saying then it's fair game to question the analysis.

And I reiterate, McTominay is 26 years old. I've never heard or seem or read any pundit or sports writer or ex manager or anyone involved in football, past and present, cite that Scott McTominay hides from the football.

McTominay has had four managers. Three trusted him immensely. Ralph Rangnick even went as far to say that McTominay would captain the club some day.

These managers, especially Rangnick, known their onions.

I'm going to say that EtH trusts McTominay to a degree. You don't give 40+ appearances in one season to a player you don't trust and who hides from the ball.

What you and everyone who mirrors the "Scott McTominay hides from the ball" opinion, and the guy who made a tiny YouTube clip, are saying is that you have more knowledge and more football knowledge than Mourinho, Ole and Ralph. (Nor to mention the various coaches at the club since McTominay broke into the first team squad)

That is unbelievably arrogant.

Yes, I'm Scottish, but it has nothing at all do to with being bias. If anything, I'm more of a critic of Scottish players than I am of other nationalities

First bolded. If you reread my post i quite cleary told you I don't give a hoot about what other people think. I couldn't give two shits about these "analyzing" videos. Everything I'm telling you is based of my own eyes. Capice?

Second bolded. The youtube short I'm referring to isn't an "analyzing" videos, it's straight up game footage from one game. It's not cherry picked moments from 20 games. It's one game and no commentators. Just footage.

You'd know that if you'd bothered looking it up. But as i thought, you are not interested because you don't want to be proven wrong.

I think it's quite clear now where you stand and no matter what evidence someone gives you, you wont budge so we'll end it here.

No hard feelings and I wish you a happy weekend

 

[bdspeedy]

McTominay -- like Slabhead -- needs to go so we can get better suited players for specific positions. Both are probably fantastic guys. Most of us fans were desperate for them to work out but what are ya gonna do? I think there may be a player in Scott, but time's up waiting for him to finally blossom here. Pogba wasn't Pogba until he left and went to Juventus and he wasn't the same when he returned nor has he been since. The Glazers are the malaise.

 

[MadDogg]

As far as memory serves McTominay has always played in a deep position for United. With all four managers.

I recall he played a match against Leeds in a more advanced role and he scored two within about 3 minutes. And would've got a hat trick if Bruno wasn't a selfish dick who insisted on taking a penalty.

He contributes more when in an advanced role. In the past 3 Scotland matches He's scored 3 and been involved in 2 goals.

McTominay is not a deep lying player. He just isn't. Put Bruno as a no 6 and he'll be even worse than McTominay.

Buy someone like Rodri and Kimmich and Gilmour and they'll eclipse Casemiro's numbers.

Scott played in the exact same position against Leeds as he normally did until Rangnick came in. It was just one of the few times that he actually made it work in an offensive sense, uncoincidentally against one of the most open teams that has played in the PL in the last decade or so. Both Mourinho (who didn't actually play him that much) and Ole normally had him next to Matic or Fred, both of whom were the deeper player with Scott nominally being the one with more freedom. He just rarely did anything with that freedom, and he provided so little on the ball some people incorrectly seemed to think we were using two DM's. It was normally only when he played with Pogba that he was actually the DM.

It was very noticeable that Rangnick came in and instantly swapped Scott and Fred's roles when they played together, with ETH continuing that when he took over. Scott became the one who sat deeper while Fred had the freedom to go forward and get around the box more, whereas previously it had been the other way around.

 

[Cantona’s Kung Fu Kick]

I didn't mention how much I think McTominay is worth. You're just guessing/assuming/lying.

But in today's marker where Sancho is going for £73m? Sure. Why not.

McTominay has played the majority of his career at United as a number 6. The only one from that list of that list of 5 that I would trust as a number 6 is Casemiro.

Good luck with Bruno as a number 6.

EtH gave McTominay 40+ appearances last season. No manager would give a player that amount of appearances, even from the bench, if he didn't trust said player.

Who knows more about being a midfielder, Gary Neville or Paul Scholes?

I’m lying am I? You sure are a weird individual. Do you even know what the definition of a lie is?
As for your point about Scholes I gave you a quote from Keane about him earlier in the thread which suggests he doesn’t rate him. Wonder if he knows anything about being a midfielder?

Scott played in the exact same position against Leeds as he normally did until Rangnick came in. It was just one of the few times that he actually made it work in an offensive sense, uncoincidentally against one of the most open teams that has played in the PL in the last decade or so. Both Mourinho (who didn't actually play him that much) and Ole normally had him next to Matic or Fred, both of whom were the deeper player with Scott nominally being the one with more freedom. He just rarely did anything with that freedom, and he provided so little on the ball some people incorrectly seemed to think we were using two DM's. It was normally only when he played with Pogba that he was actually the DM.

It was very noticeable that Rangnick came in and instantly swapped Scott and Fred's roles when they played together, with ETH continuing that when he took over. Scott became the one who sat deeper while Fred had the freedom to go forward and get around the box more, whereas previously it had been the other way around.

Yeah and Rangick was just such a raging success as a manager we should just go with this.

 

[MasterDarcy]

The one guy in this thread has to be affiliated with McTominay in some way, only explanation.

Because I'm not blindly mirroring the opinions of others and actually engaging my brain?

So, by your reasoning, everyone should have the same opinion? If they don't there's some malevolent reason?

So, hypothetically, if you like Casemiro and I don't (I don't) then you're related to him?

Shaming people for their opinion isn't cool.

"Ridicule is the tribute paid to the genius by the mediocrities." ~ Oscar Wilde

As a Scotland fan I hope McTominay's sold and he joins a club that appreciates him and plays him in his best position.

No hard feelings and I wish you a happy weekend ✌

You, too.

 

[MasterDarcy]

I’m lying am I? You sure are a weird individual. Do you even know what the definition of a lie is?
As for your point about Scholes I gave you a quote from Keane about him earlier in the thread which suggests he doesn’t rate him. Wonder if he knows anything about being a midfielder?

You said that "McTominay Is worth £45m according to you".

That is the definition of a lie. Claiming a person said something that they didn't.

Oh. Do people here cherry pick their quotes? The same Roy Keane said that Billy Gilmour is world class, and yet a poster here said that McTominay is far better than Gilmour.

Yeah and Rangick was just such a raging success as a manager we should just go with this.

He has credentials and experience and coaching badges. He knows a damn sight more than some United fans (probably the same fans who wanted Ferguson fired during his sticky spell in the 80s) whose entire zenith of football analytics is "He hides".

 

[MadDogg]

Yeah and Rangick was just such a raging success as a manager we should just go with this.

Scott really wasn't any better in either role. It's not like his form dropped away significantly when he was moved deeper. Indeed, his first month under Rangnick and to a lesser extent his first month under ETH were two of his best periods of form he's had for us, probably behind only his late 18/19 and early 19/20 form.

 

[Isotope]

There was that one pre-season game where he was subbed in and turned an almost 10/10 performance. Hope to see that McTom tomorrow.

 

[Skills]

Scott played in the exact same position against Leeds as he normally did until Rangnick came in. It was just one of the few times that he actually made it work in an offensive sense, uncoincidentally against one of the most open teams that has played in the PL in the last decade or so. Both Mourinho (who didn't actually play him that much) and Ole normally had him next to Matic or Fred, both of whom were the deeper player with Scott nominally being the one with more freedom. He just rarely did anything with that freedom, and he provided so little on the ball some people incorrectly seemed to think we were using two DM's. It was normally only when he played with Pogba that he was actually the DM.

It was very noticeable that Rangnick came in and instantly swapped Scott and Fred's roles when they played together, with ETH continuing that when he took over. Scott became the one who sat deeper while Fred had the freedom to go forward and get around the box more, whereas previously it had been the other way around.

Pogba was the deeper of the two when they played together.

 

[MadDogg]

Pogba was the deeper of the two when they played together.

I could be wrong, but I think they played both ways at different times. I know for sure Fred-Pogba did that (earlier matches it was Pogba who sat deeper, later on it was Fred), and I think Scott-Pogba were similar. Not certain on that though. Either way, Pogba's lack of defensive work would still mean Scott wouldn't really have the freedom to get forward too much.

 

[Skills]

I could be wrong, but I think they played both ways at different times. I know for sure Fred-Pogba did that (earlier matches it was Pogba who sat deeper, later on it was Fred), and I think Scott-Pogba were similar. Not certain on that though. Either way, Pogba's lack of defensive work would still mean Scott wouldn't really have the freedom to get forward too much.

McTominay and Pogba was the most unbalanced midfield 2 we played in the last few years. That's because even though Pogba was defensively suspect, McTominay lacked any sort of self awareness to be the covering the midfielder. He was bombing forward like an idiot for his grand total 0 goals and 0 assists, while our creative force was having to sit back and cover for him.

Fred was generally a lot more disciplined and realised when he had to play the secondary role. Fred was just very suspect building up in the first 3rd, but then Pogba was fine there.

They're locked threads so I can't quote from them but this was my impression all along:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2020-21-performances.457012/post-27397869

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/who...d-slot-fred-or-mctominay.454999/post-25639218

 

[Bobski]

Scott needs to go for his own career progression but your fellow Darcy is absolutely correct about the lazy sheep like mentality that develops around certain players. We push so many of the failings of the team and coaching towards certain disliked individuals, often blaming them for others failings as well as their own, while ignoring or downplaying their strengths.

 

[crossy1686]

Is he starting today?

 

[Bobski]

Is he starting today?

Would think it would be Case/Eriksen and Bruno, that midfield worked superbly against Forest last year. Would be keeping a close eye on the deeper 2, really need Case to get his legs back.

 

[Xaviboy]

If he doesn't even get any minutes today then best he moves on, for himself as a player. Club get in Amrabat or another midfieder. Won't get 90 mins out of Eriksen so does Ten Hag send message to board today to sell if he doesn't put Mctominey on at all.

Or maybe he starts?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Scott needs to go for his own career progression but your fellow Darcy is absolutely correct about the lazy sheep like mentality that develops around certain players. We push so many of the failings of the team and coaching towards certain disliked individuals, often blaming them for others failings as well as their own, while ignoring or downplaying their strengths.

All of this can be true but the criticism of some players can be fully deserved. Especially when based on objective, statistical evidence. Such as McT’s constant lack of involvement, despite playing a position where he should be on the ball more than most others. That’s a failing on him and him alone.

 

[AneRu]

Scott needs to go for his own career progression but your fellow Darcy is absolutely correct about the lazy sheep like mentality that develops around certain players. We push so many of the failings of the team and coaching towards certain disliked individuals, often blaming them for others failings as well as their own, while ignoring or downplaying their strengths.

Right on, one thing you can guarantee is that if Scot had played at Tottenham he would have put more effort than some of our untouchables. The team isn't failing because he hasn't moved it is failing because the ones trusted by the manager aren't listening to instructions and putting the required effort in. The running stats posted on twitter from our team compared to Spurs were disgraceful.

When you really think about it, yes players like McTominay and Fred aren't good enough and can't be relied on but it's not them alone. Even our supposed stars aren't that reliable even at things that made them big names. The misses by Bruno and Rashford at Spurs were unbelievably bad and unforgivable.

 

[Amar__]

The running stats posted on twitter from our team compared to Spurs were disgraceful

Can you post this?

 

[MadDogg]

Scott needs to go for his own career progression but your fellow Darcy is absolutely correct about the lazy sheep like mentality that develops around certain players. We push so many of the failings of the team and coaching towards certain disliked individuals, often blaming them for others failings as well as their own, while ignoring or downplaying their strengths.

The issue with Scott is that his strengths are things that are nice bonuses to have for a midfielder (good in the air, striding forward with the ball when he's in space, and shooting), while his weaknesses are the things that really make up the necessary basics for someone in that position (making himself available to receive the ball, positioning in general both when his team is in or out of possession, passing). Those aren't issues with the team as a whole or the system, they are issues with him. Now, whether poor coaching earlier in his career is potentially to blame is another question, and perhaps he'd have solved those issues if he hadn't had to deal with Mourinho and Ole and their lack of any real system. But it's probably too late for him to improve enough now.

 

[CannibalSpectre]

I could be wrong, but I think they played both ways at different times. I know for sure Fred-Pogba did that (earlier matches it was Pogba who sat deeper, later on it was Fred), and I think Scott-Pogba were similar. Not certain on that though. Either way, Pogba's lack of defensive work would still mean Scott wouldn't really have the freedom to get forward too much.

Pogba always sat back when he was paired with McTominay. He was hamstrung by McTominay in this sense and it was something that was discussed at length.

It was similar when Pogba was paired with Fellaini. Matic is the player who allowed Pogba the most freedom to express himself in advanced roles. McTominay was seldom trusted as the deeper CM, even when paired with Fred until Rangknick came along. Solskjaer only briefly attempted to convert Mctominay to a true 6/Matic replacement

 

[Walrus]

I’ve always been a McTominay fan. That said, it’s probably time for him to move on - go to a team which will play him in a more natural box to box role. ETH seems to have him as an understudy to Casemiro, but everyone can see that Scott simply isn’t a good DM/holding midfielder - his defensive positioning and awareness are his worst qualities.

If we try to play a midfield of Casemiro/Bruno/Eriksen today then I think we will be well and truly overrun. McTominay needs to start ahead of Eriksen here. Hopefully he puts in a good performance and shows what he is capable of contributing in the attacking third.

 

[Woodenlung]

McTominay did two things after coming on.

Ruin a promising counter-attack and kick someone in the head.

He's the worst United player I've ever seen get semi-regular minutes.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Such a pointless player and Ten Hag is an idiot for not just selling him. He can work for a team like West Ham but for us he’s basically useless besides defending aerial threats at the end of games.

 

[Idxomer]

He still can't pass the ball.

 

[Andycoleno9]

We rejected 30 mil bid for him. Mind blowing decision. Guy is useless. Jogged around and did nothing.

 

[El__Jingo]

McTominay did two things after coming on.

Ruin a promising counter-attack and kick someone in the head.

He's the worst United player I've ever seen get semi-regular minutes.

couldn't agree more, that pass was absolutely shocking. i really thought we would finally be rid of him! id be so happy to see him go. dont care what anyone says he is the worst player in the history of club to have played the amount he has.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I thought he was hopeless after he came on

 

[Isotope]

Insisting on 45m for him is showing our board's level of football knowledge.

Edit: whoever in charge of player transfer decision.

 

[Borys]

Makes my head in why are we keeping him.

Actually not. Looks likely we're keeping him for the same reason Moyes wants him. He's big and strong.

 

[MasterDarcy]

You people do realize that we conceded two goals before McTominay was on the bench, don't you?

But yeah, he was on for a whole 300 seconds so let's all pile on.

 

[M Bison]

McTominay did two things after coming on.

Ruin a promising counter-attack and kick someone in the head.

He's the worst United player I've ever seen get semi-regular minutes.

made me laugh

 

[Rossa]

Makes my head in why are we keeping him.

Actually not. Looks likely we're keeping him for the same reason Moyes wants him. He's big and strong.

He’s big. Has he ever whowed much of that strength? Painfully average in all physical duels.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

McTominay did two things after coming on.

Ruin a promising counter-attack and kick someone in the head.

He's the worst United player I've ever seen get semi-regular minutes.

Did he not also clear 2 corners and skillfully skip past a midfielder in a congested area to win a free kick and reduce pressure?

 

[Bobski]

Did he not also clear 2 corners and skillfully skip past a midfielder in a congested area to win a free kick and reduce pressure?

Yes, but we ignore that, and that he has played very few mins in pre-season and the real stuff.

 

[Lee565]

Would fans be Overly mad if we had sold him for even 20 million, keeping him just means we aren't able to sign amrabat at the moment