He's not up for sale. We are clearly more then happy to keep him and will only consider selling if a worthwhile bid comes in.
He's currently our second choice DM if Cas was to get injured/suspended.
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He's not up for sale. We are clearly more then happy to keep him and will only consider selling if a worthwhile bid comes in.
He's currently our second choice DM if Cas was to get injured/suspended.
He'll play on Sat and I think will do well- and he should be in there beside Cas
Feels like he’s a bit of an outcast at the moment until he’s either sold or the window closes and he is brought back into the 1st team picture. The fact Fred and Sabitzer are gone from last season, we aren’t letting him go unless we receive a juicy offer to good to refuse AND we have a better quality replacement lined up.
Tells us nothing of the sort. The manager is not responsible for selling him and for what price we ask.
He clearly is up for sale the issue is our management want more for him than anyone is willing to pay. I would have thought that £30m was an excellent price for someone of his little talent. He’s nearly 27 now, he’s basically at his peak for a Premiership footballer. Never be good enough to start regularly for a supposed top club. If he was as I keep saying, plenty of clubs would want him but the fact is they don’t. Says a great deal about his obvious lack of quality.
What manager has with his selling price? It is DoF's part of job. And, as we know, our DoF is a joke.
You answered your own question here, it's less likely to be a bidding war when one party offers way above their market value.
When the sample size is as big as redcafe you will get all kind of crazy opinions. Just look at threads of past players not good enough and you will always find 1 person who rate that player. If we listened to them, we'd have 11 happy fans and a team in the championship containing Lingard, James, Darmian, McNair and so on.
If you ask if someone like to smell turds and the sample size is big enough, someone is will say yes.
If a large group, independent of each other, come to the same conclusion it's probably wise to listen to them.
As far as him hiding, i didn't think it was that bad until i saw some clips (can't post here since I'm a newb but you can find it on youtube) and i have to say i was absolutely baffled how he was constantly hiding behind opposite players.
You like him and that's fine, we all have soft spots for players for various reasons besides their talent for football, but when a player clearly isn't good enough we have to look past that and think about what's best for the club going forward.
Even in games where our midfield is overrun he is not coming on. He is not part of ten Hags plans so he has to leave for his own good.
If he was up for sale he'd have been sold for £30m... Instead we're asking for more then his worth because we're in no rush to let him go.
It's like Sancho, he's not for sale, but if someone knocked on our door with £80m we'd probably accept... There is a difference between actively trying to sell a player and letting one go if a suitable offer comes in.
Because he's worth £45m in the same way that Mount us worth £55m e.g not at all.
Mainoo? You mean the kid who has the mammoth 1 EPL match? Good luck with that.
6th? Who are the 5? Casemiro; Mount; Eriksen. Who else?
McTominay offers something different to any of the aforementioned. He is faster than them, a better dribbler and a better finisher.
As a Scotland fan I hope he leaves and he's played in best position with appreciative fans. And I guarantee, he will come back to haunt us by scoring tons against us.
Not one pundit, commentator, ex-player, current managers, ex-manager, etc, has ever said that McTominay "hides" from the ball.
Where did that notion came from or who coined it? I don't know. But as Josepg Goebbels said “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."
And this is that concept in motion.
Are you saying that you are more qualified than actual coaches? McTominay has played over 200 matches under 4 managers. None of whom have contributed "Hiding from the ball" to Scott McTominay.
You want a quote from Paul Scholes four months ago?:
"He’s done great and will come back with loads of confidence. He’s a really talented player, he’s a really good player," Scholes said on the Webby and O'Neill YouTube channel."
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...choles-mctominay-man-united-transfer-26612194
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I think "hiding" is a bit of a misnomer because players don't realize they're doing it, and "hiding" implies agency, but McTominay is definitely a player who struggles to get open and receive passes as his movement off the ball is terrible.
Also his teammates may not trust him. I remember immediately seeing that nobody fancied giving the ball to Schneiderlin when he got here. McTominay is supposedly very good in training, so my guess is he just never learned/doesn't sense how to get open enough to be a midfielder who should be playing for us.
Also his teammates may not trust him. I remember immediately seeing that nobody fancied giving the ball to Schneiderlin when he got here. McTominay is supposedly very good in training, so my guess is he just never learned/doesn't sense how to get open enough to be a midfielder who should be playing for us.
Please no. Two DM’s against Nottingham Forest would be absolutely diabolical for a manager we brought in to play expensive football.
Granted I’m not happy with the way Ten Hag has shaped our forward line one bit either.
McT is not actually a DM and never has. He is a B2B midfielder albeit an average one.
See that's your problem then. I don't need someone else telling me what I can see with my own two eyes. When you are outside, do you stop people asking them what the weather is like? Of course you don't, you use your eyes.
"Scott Mctominey hiding from the ball" on youtube and you will see for yourself.
You quoting Scholes saying he is talented is totally irrelevant to the fact that he is hiding behind opposite players. That's a fact and is there for everyone to see. Sticking your head in the sand won't change that.
Sticking by a fellow countryman is well and good and I can sympathize with that. I'm from Sweden and have a soft spot for Lindelöf. But the fact we are both from the same country won't make me turn a blind eye on some of his shortcomings.
Nobody is perfect, and there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that.
He’s worth £45m according to you, except of course that no one is actually willing to pay more than £30m at most for him. So he’s actually not worth that at all.
He’s 6th choice as he’s obviously behind Bruno, Mount, Erikson, Casemiro and Mainoo - who started all the pre-season games ahead of him.
Ten Hag doesn’t seem to agree with your assessment of him as he’s given him what? All of a couple of minutes. And whilst we are chucking around quotes from ex-players here’s Gary Neville “Scott McTominay lacks the ball-playing ability to be a Manchester United midfielder”.
It's not my problem. I don't have a problem. You've actually got it backwards. I would say that the vast majority of people here just copy and paste the opinions of others where it comes to McTominay.
People are using a soundbite of Roy Keane and running with it. So, you have the whole thing backwards.
Taking a whole career and wittle it down to a 21 second clip? Brilliant analysis.
Have you ever heard of "marking the opposition as to stop them closing down your team-mate"? It's a counter pressuring technique. Many players do it. I saw Rice do it a few times against Nottingham Forest a few weeks ago.
There you have it? A basic misunderstanding of coaching by a few armchair analysists.
Not really. If no expert has ever said what these aforementioned fans are saying then it's fair game to question the analysis.
And I reiterate, McTominay is 26 years old. I've never heard or seem or read any pundit or sports writer or ex manager or anyone involved in football, past and present, cite that Scott McTominay hides from the football.
McTominay has had four managers. Three trusted him immensely. Ralph Ragnick even went as far to say that McTominay would captain the club some day.
These managers, especially Rangnick, known their onions.
I'm going to say that EtH trusts McTominay to a degree. You don't give 40+ appearances in one season to a player you don't trust and who hides from the ball.
What you and everyone who mirrors the "Scott McTominay hides from the ball" opinion, and the guy who made a tiny YouTube clip, are saying is that you have more knowledge and more football knowledge than Mourinho, Ole and Ralph. (Nor to mention the various coaches at the club since McTominay broke into the first team squad)
That is unbelievably arrogant.
Yes, I'm Scottish, but it has nothing at all do to with being bias. If anything, I'm more of a critic of Scottish players than I am of other nationalities
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Can't argue with that.
The trouble is that McTominay is not a number 6. Yes, I would say that McTominay is a versatile player, but in terms of spacial awareness, at least defensively, he isn't the best.
I recently did a rewatch of the Norway vs Scotland and Scotland vs Spain matches. He was allowed off the leash more, but he still did well defensively off the ball.
Plus he scored 2 and was involved in the other 2 goals.
EtH bought Mount in order to play the roaming 8 role. Which is fine. He's the manager. But I wish he'd try McTominay there over a few matches before he spent £55m.
Ultimately, I'm sick of the "Scott McTominay hides from the ball" Zombie mantra. No one says it. No pundits say it. No writer writes it. It came came about from a 30 second YouTube clip.
I could make a 30 second clip of every player doing it. It's a counter pressing method. It stops the opposition from closing down your teammate.
People would understand that if they took 10 seconds to think logically.
Yes I agree. I should have said we don’t need a player who can’t attack or defend next to Casemiro
I know he has a good attitude but I just don’t rate his attributes as a footballer.Would rather we just sold him as he’s obviously not the level we need. When we signed Fellaini he was a level above Scott.
You could see what he brought to the team. Difficult to watch and clumsy but damn it could be effective if used correctly.
I didn't mention how much I think McTominay is worth. You're just guessing/assuming/lying.
But in today's marker where Sancho is going for £73m? Sure. Why not.
McTominay has played the majority of his career at United as a number 6. The only one from that list of that list of 5 that I would trust as a number 6 is Casemiro.
Good luck with Bruno as a number 6.
EtH gave McTominay 40+ appearances last season. No manager would give a player that amount of appearances, even from the bench, if he didn't trust said player.
Who knows more about being a midfielder, Gary Neville or Paul Scholes?
I believe the concept of Scott McTominay hiding in the 'cover shadow' gained traction with this video from Tifo Football's Alex Stewart.
There is a mindless regurgitation of the ideas in this video which is frustrating and unfair. It's also particularly hard to dispute the argument that professional football managers would (a) find that sort of on-field behaviour from a player acceptable or (b) not be aware of it given the amount of tracking and data driven measuring available.
I actually think this video came about from the discussions about the duo that fans were having here rather than the other way round, to be honest.
Who knows why managers keep picking him, but it's hardly been a successful period for the club and he is as much a part of the reason as anyone, if not more considering he is in the midfield. Just watching videos of Scholes and Keane the other day and it just depressed me how absurdly far off that level we are and have been for so long.
Aye it wouldn't be like United managers of the past decade to keep starting crap players. It doesn't correlate with the incredible performances and success we've had
Where are those posters who arrogantly said he’s easily a £40m player so they won’t sell him for £30m and in the end West Ham will cave in. The plan didn’t work out it the way they thought it would. Colour me shocked. We should have bitten West Ham’s hand as soon as they offered 30m.
It not really that he hides per say but some players are more willing to show for the ball when the team is under pressure and he's one of those least willing to do so because he isn't confident in his ability to positively influence play in that scenario. See a player like Mainoo(I know preseason and youth level) or Eriksen as the opposite to this.
I’ve been complaining about McTominay hiding on the ball for most of last season. I try never to watch those analysis videos on YouTube or anywhere else. I find them annoying. But you don’t need to watch them to see how McT doesn’t get on the ball anywhere near as much as he should for the position he plays. It’s very obvious watching him play. With loads of stats about number of passes/touches available to confirm what seems obvious watching him.
Nice to read a common sense post on here
We should be actively looking to sell him though. He's simply not good enough.Nice to read a common sense post on here
He is good enough to be a squad player.
Let us see if Casemiro lifts his game because he has been dire so far this season
Don't recall any arrogance. The club adopted the position that he was not for sale but a bid of 40M to 45M might be considered too good to turn down. The bid did not materialize and so taking the club at their word they are perfectly happy to keep a player they view as part of the squad as opposed to accepting a bid that did not meet their valuation. You personally may disagree with the club on this but that is just your opinion and has no bearing on the actual facts.
The manager has said he can go just like Maguire. The idea ETH has placed a price tag and is deciding what we sell him for is just not true. He won’t care whether we get 30 or 40m for him just like he won’t have cared what we pay for players. He’ll just want likes of Maguire and Mctominay out and new players in.
The club are terrible at assessing the value of players, we overpay fees and wages and demand unrealistic fees. It’s just another example. Maybe West Ham come back in with a better bid and we have a replacement lined up and there will be some vindication but looks pretty unlikely.
Where did he say this?
I don't agree. He isn't good enough for us. We need much better.
We were negotiating with West Ham for both players, the manager has clearly said they can be sold. Does anyone seriously think the manager has laid out how much money we have to receive to sell players or what wages payoff we give them etc?.
McTominay is not a DM
Manchester United ready to sell Scott McTominay if £40m tag is reached | Manchester United | The Guardian
Go to any club and you will find a handful of players considered untouchable, for us that would be the likes of Rashford, Bruno and Martinez. You will also have a few that are surplus and available at almost any price, Telles for example. The rest fall into the category of squad players that we are not actively looking to sell but as with most things in life, if we are offered a really good price we might be persuaded. Scott is in that middle group for us.
I have not made any claim that ETH established the value for Scott. That is not his role. I am pushing back against the notion that we have at any point been actively trying to sell him or that the manager has deemed him surplus to requirements. We have clearly stated from the outset that we are not looking to sell Scott, that does not mean we would not sell if someone wants to offer a great price for him. We are not trying to sell Lindelof but if Bayern offer us 50M I doubt we turn that down either.
West Ham made one bid which was below the value we as a club have placed on him. It is not the failure of some plan, arrogance or a mistake to not accept an offer that we think is subpar for one of our players. This is a false narrative that has sprung up because certain posters don't like the player and think we should be pushing him out of the door at any price.
Of course we’re actively selling him, that’s why it’s always being briefed he’s only for sale if we get a certain price. If we weren’t actively trying to sell him we would not be letting everyone know what his price is. He’s being advertised for sale like a number of others, we just aren’t very good at valuing players and overplayed our hand with West Ham. He is surplus to requirements, manager wants him sold to bring someone else in. It’s exactly the same as Maguire.
It is a failure, we need to sell to buy so our transfer window ground to a halt because we’re not doing a good job of selling.
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Everything there is your opinion and is not supported by any of the available facts or the public statements of the club and the Manager.
Given the choice of Scott or 30M we choose to keep Scott
Given the choice of Scott or 40M we choose to sell Scott
You are fundamentally disagreeing with the value the club has placed on the player and you are free to do this as it is your opinion but the fact remains that the club don't see it that way and made it clear they would prefer to retain him at that price. When you state we overplayed our hand with West Ham you are implying we wanted to sell him and would have taken 30M but got greedy and there you are entering the realm of speculation. Of course none of this really matters because according to West Ham they never offered us 30M in the first place and the whole thing was made up by the media.
The manager has said similar things about all the other players that are actively being sold. The fact it’s the same ones being briefed all the time is because they are the ones that are for sale. If we didn’t want to sell Mctominay we wouldn’t be briefing what his price is.
We clearly want to sell him and just thought he was worth more than he actually is. West Ham chose to spend their money elsewhere. The club consistently get valuations wrong which is a huge reason why the club is in a mess, if they actually knew the value of players it would have made an enormous difference.
He'd actually be a great signing for West Ham but I doubt they'll splash 40+ million on him.
My main bone of contention is these kinds of people seem to think that ManchesterUUnited don't have a technical department that don't analyse matches, etc.
They do.
If Scott McTominay was "hiding" he would be told as much.
Why last season? He only started 10 EPL matches last season.
It's not obvious.
Mason Mount has started two EPL matches this season. He's had a combined 57 touches with 32 successful passes. in the same matches Casemiro has had 141 touches and 80 successful passes.
Does Mason Mount hide from the ball? Do those contrasting numbers make it obvious that he hides?
People also say that United should sell him. This smacks of agenda. He's not starting matches or even coming on as a sub. Is he hiding on the bench? is he putting off his team-mates?
People are stuck in the past. We don't have a Keane or a Scholes or an Ince or a Robson. If we sell McTominay who do we have? Eriksen, Mount (injured) and Casemiro.
Not exactly strength in depth.
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