You will have to serve the Walking Dude. Bring your own drinks and nukes, of course.
Last edited:
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
@Revan @Wibble thanks for your replies. I want disagree and you have a better informed opinion/argument. I see a lot of ifs ( like @Hound Dog says) and some of them terrifies me
To be fair, I find myself quite reasonable and definitely pro-science, but I haven't ever got the flu shot. Probably more negligence and the wrong 'I have a strong immunity so who cares; mentality. I don't remember the last time when I lost more than one working/school day, so we are talking for more than 15 years. I think that many people would rationalize the same way.
Now, the common cold is far less dangerous than the flu. I likely caught it multiple times (assuming that feeling a bit sick is common cold-related) each year and still go to work and do the other activities (like gym, socializing etc). Most of the people are onthe same shoes. A 20% reduction towards common cold is hardly a big deal so I think the absolute majority will not get the vaccine. And if you find a vaccine for only one of the coronaviruses, you are talking for like 5-10% reduction.
I think that this episode has taught me to get the flu shot in the future. Not cause I care that much about the flu, but cause I might infect people with a weaker immune system.
To be fair, it is even worse than chickenpox. Measles is making a return in Europe and the US. I think that Italy lost recently the measles-free status. It is an extremely dangerous disease (not only for kids but also adults) that killed so many. And it is arguably the most contagious disease right there. With it being extremely contagious (an R of 12), it might become a real problem in the future. Bear in mind, it was a disease that didn't exist in the West for around 2 decades and was destined to have the smallpox fate, but some smart people decided otherwise.
Last edited:
Did you have a Ouiji board tell you to stay a virgin too? Needless to say I went out and fcuked the first guy I saw not wearing a track suit.
Cheers pal, I won't be posting much in here from now on though, having to try and justify a factual test and factual comments by the chief epidemiologist regarding that test for 2 pages a few days back was the straw that broke the camel's back. Far too many in this thread have watched Contagion, followed the outbreak closely and now believe they are experts in the field. And sadly, far too many don't even want to see or hear about a possible positive development which in itself is utterly mental. They certainly don't want to hear that this virus can be slowed even without lockdown.
For what it's worth though @Wumminator as I'm sure you'll be at least interested, I know the numbers this week after Easter were all over the shop due to the weekend and holiday delay, which has lead to some dogshit news reporting especially in the UK this week regarding Sweden; however there's been really positive news this week and a definite downward trend in deaths per day (see below) and also cases per day.
Peaked at 99, then 66, 62, 63, 67, 56, 56, 45, 38 (the last number likely to be added to due to late reporting). Oh, and like Belgium, Sweden is one of the countries that puts all possible nursing home deaths in the figures, mental to think Holland, UK, Spain and Italy not doing that.
ICU entries has been stable for close to 4 weeks now.
That'll be my last post on the subject for another week, I'll leave the doom merchants to it. Take care of yourself pal.
Last edited:
Well that’s a great shame, and if you stick to it I won’t be coming in here as frequently as I have been.Cheers pal, I won't be posting much in here from now on though, having to try and justify a factual test and factual comments by the chief epidemiologist regarding that test for 2 pages a few days back was the straw that broke the camel's back. Far too many in this thread have watched Contagion, followed the outbreak closely and now believe they are experts in the field. And sadly, far too many don't even want to see or hear about a possible positive development which in itself is utterly mental.
For what it's worth though @Wumminator as I'm sure you'll be at least interested, I know the numbers this week after Easter were all over the shop due to the weekend and holiday delay, which has lead to some dogshit news reporting especially in the UK this week regarding Sweden; however there's been really positive news this week and a definite downward trend in deaths per day (see below) and also cases per day. ICU entries has been stable for close to 4 weeks now.
That'll be my last post on the subject for another week, I'll leave the doom merchants to it. Take care of yourself pal.
I know your rather truculent style winds some people up, but that’s a small price to pay for your really clear insights into what’s going on in Sweden.
A few days ago someone rather gloatingly posted that it will be interesting to see what the Swedish numbers look like once they have “inevitably“ abandoned their unique approach and joined everyone else in general lockdown. It appears obvious to me that the opposite is true, and it’s inevitable that most countries are going to have to adopt something akin to the Swedish model at some time fairly soon. I hope you will be around and available for comment at that time.
Using the European median for spending is misleading when you consider the size of the UK economy is much larger than most other countries in Europe.
Comparing with G7 countries is more of a fair comparison.
Our healthcare spending is 2nd from bottom from the G7 countries and only just over half what Germany spend.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...espendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29
NB. That was in 2011. Since then we have seen massive reductions in the rate of investment in the NHS.
Problem is that the UK government are treating daily updates and the removal of parliamentary debate as an opportunity to split out PR and spin on a daily basis. Glossing over the multitude of errors they are making with very little checks or balances. People are bound to get frustrated.
Promising 100,000 tests per day but only delivering 15,000 per day is political.
Not having the correct PPE for healthcare workers despite assuring parliament in January that we are fully prepared (Hancock) is also political.
Issuing badges for care workers when they dont have correct PPE is pointless.
I could go on but the UK's inept response to this virus is obviously going to draw political criticism.
I have family who are critical care nurses, working 6 x 12 hour shifts then on their days off they are making homemade protective hats because there is not enough protection provided!
They are talking about beginning small scale manufacturing before testing is completed in a gamble that testing will complete successfully and the million doses don't have to be binned. This won't hugely shorten the timeline but any potential shortening of the timeline is a great idea. I also wonder if this million doses is so that if they get through stage 2 testing they can then immediately roll out large scale stage 3 testing in various countries with this million doses. Even so even if everything goes well (it works and there are no serious side-effects) this would fit with a 12-18 month time scale for full commercial roll-out. And 12-18 months would be truly exceptional as this normally takes much much longer.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-covid-19-vaccines-before-proof-idUSKBN21Z25M
Interesting but may be premature or anomalous.
Maybe the layer of tar protects lungs from the virus. Might only be short term though, once the virus takes hold it would surely be harder to fight off as a smoker...
Estimates for both are a little off, and a tiny chance in infectiousness can have a big knock on effect.
SARS wasnt all that infectious, the R0 was skewed by a small number of super spreaders who infected in some cases up to 100 other people.
We've been calculating the R0 for Covid based on confirmed cases i.e mostly those with symptoms. When we figure out how many have it without symtpoms the number will inevitably go up. In the early stages of the Italian outbreak the R0 of known cases was up as high as almost 6.
I do not approve of your social distancing.
Some positive news in Ireland this morning is that social distancing measures have worked and as a result no peak is currently coming.
Yeah everything was handled so (surprisingly) well here. I know a few healthcare workers who have had none of the chaos in their hospitals that was seen in the likes of Italy and the US, too. Still have a few wankers complaining about the lockdown but that's to be expected. I reckon after May 5th we'll see some gradual easing of restrictions, now.
My work officially told us WFH til the middle of May, so I'll be waiting til at least then even if the country opens up a bit.
Even that however is misleading as concentrating on simply G7 countries only Japan funds a greater proportion of expenditure by public contribution. On that basis we should promote more private insurance should we not?. Mind you I do accept I am playing devils advocate. But it does show, as with most things in life.....it all depends what facts you base your assumptions upon.
Yeah, we’ve definitely stopped this getting away from us. I reckon we’ll be following New Zealand’s lead when it comes to the next phase.
Explainer: Here's how New Zealand's lockdown worked and how they'll be relaxing it next week
I've read this reuse and severe lack of PPE for many European countries in the news outlets. American nurses and doctors are using New York Yankee baseball equipment. Weeks old PPE across Europe and even getting left off while treating patients.
Many have been caught with their pants down, there's a huge world battle in ordering equipment and shows the problem of outsourcing manufacturing. Germany is doing a lot now but won't be ready until August.
What is shambolic is not just the government but those at the top of the NHS who should know what they need and should be looking at what is coming. Factories should've been retooling ages ago and I shouldn't be hearing public calls for other manufactures to help with PPE last week. Royal mint retooled in 48 hours to make some PPE, I shouldn't be hearing about that recently, should've been months ago multiple times.
I asked/expected care home workers and nurses to be routinely tested at the start of all this but we're only stepping up in recent days after recent calls. I'm stunned there wasn't more action as every little helps in Jan Feb and early March.
It's like seeing huge waves coming on the beach and we just stand there instead of moving. I would've been paying firms to retool early on.
UK and Europe and not remotely great, it's like a decaying museum people visit and work in still. Asian people know to go home for medical care and virus outbreaks than to stay here, they took the baton yonks ago.
Last edited:
This has been picked apart by other posters. But I would also like to add:You sure about that?
The NHS does not have a problem with it's overall budget.
This doesn't take into account the reduction in social care spending since 2011 which in turn puts more people and pressures onto the NHS. Combine this reduction in social care spending with the ageing population and the massive increased need for social care and it is gross negligence.
There was also the reduced junior doctor contracts which in turn reduces the number of junior doctors and trainees.
There was also the removed bursaries and enforced tuition fees for student nurses. Which again reduced the intake of new nurses. They have now had to reverse this policy. But we are suffering from a 4 year gap in new nurses!
A competent government?
About to kick off big time I think - nurses refusing to do things with managers then asking and indeed training junior doctors to do their duties. Royal College of Nursing have told their nurses to refuse if unsafe PPE, ditto BMA for the doctors although BMA's statements and saying they'll fight for us is only for refusing to perform "high risk services"
RCN incidentally have said that they will help with legal assistance should nurses face corporate manslaughter charges for refusing to treat patients. BMA have not said anything about providing doctors with the same.
Such a shitshow, its a damn miracle I haven't fallen sick yet treating the patients I have, while constantly battling management as they challenge us as well when we source our own PPE as well, but even that's been difficult. Most of the PPE I've sourced for myself and my colleagues has been visors, masks, coveralls are banned in my hospital unless provided by them (although some GPs are sourcing and using their own in community) but when it comes to gowns haven't been able to find anything. Without gowns healthcare workers will die, literally haven't been able to sleep properly with the stress of it all. Sickening how the government are getting away with this.
RCN incidentally have said that they will help with legal assistance should nurses face corporate manslaughter charges for refusing to treat patients. BMA have not said anything about providing doctors with the same.
Such a shitshow, its a damn miracle I haven't fallen sick yet treating the patients I have, while constantly battling management as they challenge us as well when we source our own PPE as well, but even that's been difficult. Most of the PPE I've sourced for myself and my colleagues has been visors, masks, coveralls are banned in my hospital unless provided by them (although some GPs are sourcing and using their own in community) but when it comes to gowns haven't been able to find anything. Without gowns healthcare workers will die, literally haven't been able to sleep properly with the stress of it all. Sickening how the government are getting away with this.
Yeah, I do think we will see some restrictions lifted after these next two weeks.
Wonder will the guidance on face masks change, we appear to be the only country not recommending you wear them.
Is this true? It’s like something @SteveJ would write
Online remote dates. If you’re lucky then proceeding to fingering and wanking via webcam. The single lads will all have to invest in those fake fanny things (made in China)
couldn’t it be more deadly or even evolve in places with poor conditions such as parts of India, Africa etc
It sounds horrendous. I’m sorry that you all have to go through this. It’s a shame that the election was so recent because I reckon they’d be going the extra mile otherwise. As someone else mentioned a few posts back, they could have repurposed factories a months ago. It’s not like this thing is going away anytime soon so countries need to start producing their own gear.
This is the same guy who stopped an opposition rally because the main square in Minsk urgently needed underground plumbing work.
Comrade Lukashenka is always good for a laugh.We are mugs run by mugs.
So all the noise is that even after lockdown we’ll likely have to do social distancing for a while after that..how will that work? Guess means pubs, holidays (on close proximity planes) meeting friends, sports events will be off the table for a while? All the end of lockdown wound mean is that we could go back to work or am I missing something?
It's also hard to hear the propaganda put out by our government that shortages are attributed to misuse of PPE and that deaths are not occupational but through acquisition in the community. Which is so out of sync with reality its outrageous. Not having medics challenging Matt Hancock et al. on live tele is a big part of how they're getting away with their lies to the media.
It was copied from the FT app, so unless @SteveJ works for the ft....
Cheers pal, I won't be posting much in here from now on though, having to try and justify a factual test and factual comments by the chief epidemiologist regarding that test for 2 pages a few days back was the straw that broke the camel's back. Far too many in this thread have watched Contagion, followed the outbreak closely and now believe they are experts in the field. And sadly, far too many don't even want to see or hear about a possible positive development which in itself is utterly mental. They certainly don't want to hear that this virus can be slowed even without lockdown.
Peaked at 99, then 66, 62, 63, 67, 56, 56, 45, 38 (the last number likely to be added to due to late reporting). Oh, and like Belgium, Sweden is one of the countries that puts all possible nursing home deaths in the figures, mental to think Holland, UK, Spain and Italy not doing that.
ICU entries has been stable for close to 4 weeks now.
That'll be my last post on the subject for another week, I'll leave the doom merchants to it. Take care of yourself pal.
Gutted to hear that man, I really enjoy reading your posts and especially given that (touch wood) it's a rare slice of positivity in this thread, usually. So interesting to see that Sweden's model is doing 'well' (nobody is doing well really but in the context, definitely). Extremely interesting, and something I'm keeping a very close eye on going forward. Hope to hear updates from you next week, mate.
Great news, well done Ireland. Awesome to hear.
Wouldnt be surprised if this is true - "take zero responsibility and put the blame/onus on the everyday people".
I've been thinking for a while there is no plan. I still think that's the case. They're making it up as they go along and getting away with it. As usual.
Yeah that's what I imagine will happen, we could have sport back but behind closed doors. Going to the shops will still require you to stand apart. Workplaces will also have to do this where possible. Face masks will be a part of our daily wear until next year.
Best case scenario is that the virus grows weakers and less effective with time.
So judging by that they wanted to go the way Sweden has but caved in to peer pressure
From my reading of the situation, your explanation seems about right. Sounds pretty fecking miserable.
At the start yes. But eventually, we'll find a way to get those working too. Limit the number of people in pubs (table bookings only), social gatherings limited to X number of people, sports behind closed doors/limit supporters & once they get a quick response test/validated antibody test you can have a coronavirus passport that lets you travel. It's not the end of everything, but there's going to be some teething pains and some work in getting things right.
The airlines/entertainment industry is worth billions and it's in a lot of peoples interest to get them going again to a degree.