SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

sammsky1 said:
The lack of PPE in Europe and USA is the most brazenly incompetent fcuk up by Western Governments and bureaucrats.

When this thing is over, people should be jailed for manslaughter for those mistakes.

@Arruda Kudos to you for your rightful protest.
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Do you genuinely believe that people should be charged with manslaughter regarding this?

I think there needs to be some common sense and logic applied to this PPE issue as frustrating as it is before we get into this endless crusade of blaming and suggesting people should be up for manslaughter charges etc. In Arruda’s case that’s really poor from the press in that particular instance. And I get why he’s fuming.

But to start with, not every hospital in the Uk has actually run out of PPE or is in short supply, a lot are well stocked. There are a lot that are clearly not however, I'd assume the problem lies with getting the equipment, masks especially?

Essentially you’ve got all these hospitals, police stations, GP’s etc that are essentially trying to order equipment that is likely to be used in a day that would ordinarily be used in a month. 2000% increase in demand is the last I heard.
That’s not mentioning the large number of irrational members of public who were
/are also ordering supply.

I think there were PPE’s in reserve for a pandemic but it’s not enough and really never was gonna be (obviously) This is something that can be questioned but then we're going into that whole weary hindsight area. This is literally a once in a lifetime situation for everyone.

Then you have to take into account the chain of supply. If your country doesn’t have the factories producing these things you have to import right?
Are the countries who make these products more regularly going to bend over to export their products abroad at this current time ? I'm not so sure

Then you take into account the difference between culture in somewhere like the Uk to somewhere like Japan/China etc . Their use of masks is a day to day thing so I'd imagine they have the supply and the resource to make more?

And then there's the fact you have hundreds of thousands of nhs volunteers who will now need and use PPE. It is near enough impossible to keep up with the country wide demand.

It seems everybody in the NHS is working together to try and get things moving, army bringing in equipment, getting equipment from schools etc. Ordering directly from wholesalers. But it'll take longer than a month to get the sufficient worldwide supply in.

And just to add I say this as someone on the frontline who has seen a spell of a lack of ppe in the last month, although it’s improved. I also have a 65 year old mother working as a nurse. So I get it, but this doesn’t seem to me to be the kind of area where we need get the pitch folks out and start blaming people.
 
Man who lives next door to my Parents has now been put on a ventilator.

man from the site team from work was taken to hospital two days ago.
Receptionist at work had her Gran die of it yesterday.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Still not seeing longterm Arruda.

We have slowed the spread, massively, doing things we can do until Christmas if need be, you're also 4 days behind Sweden. CFR mate? Critical FR?
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I don't give a shit about long term. Short-term is so urgent (and determinant of the mid-term) that seeing long-term is either futurology or obliviousness.

EDIT: I edited "thinking" to "seeing". They're two different things. I think long-term too. And my reckoning is that it's both unpredictable at the moment and completely dependent on what we do now. At the lack of better knowledge, we chose to save lives no matter the cost.
 
Arruda said:
I don't give a shit about long term. Short-term is so urgent (and determinant of the mid-term) that thiniking long-term is either futurology or obliviousness.
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I get that, considering your job, but whether you give a shit or not, the virus is here for the long term so I hope the people who matter are thinking about both.

Less deaths now doesn’t equal less after 6 months.

I hope, once you come out of lockdown and start up schools and shops again that you can better Sweden, if you maintain better control of your nursing homes you likely will. The deathtoll in Portugal however is going to increase a lot over the next 6 months, as it will everywhere. I keep saying it, but spreading out that death toll is what will be key for all countries.
 
Arruda said:
At the lack of better knowledge, we chose to save lives no matter the cost.
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I get you mate and you may be correct long term, who knows? Certainly not me.

I'd imagine Anders Tegnell and the Health Ministry in Sweden believe they are doing exactly that though, saving lives and that they have the knowledge to do just that. We have flattened that curve with the measures we have put in so it's hard to argue with them right now, can other countries flatten their curve after their lockdowns? That'll be a big test for us all.

But Sweden aren't out of the woods by any stretch, we have to keep this curve flat now, and then for month after month after month. Even Easter is a big issue that the authorities are shitting themselves about and even outside cafe/restaurants service will be subject to massive controls this weekend; anyone not following the regulations will be immediately shut-down.

As I said to Pogue yesterday, the result of this test and model for percentage of total infected in Stockholm are going to be eye opening I'd imagine. Hopefully they share their findings at 14:00.

What I will say mate is that Portugal, Austria, Norway, Ireland and a bunch of others are bonafide success stories 1 month into this pandemic.

But to paint Sweden as some kind of disaster/cautionary tale to learn from is so wide of the mark it’s untrue. Sweden are doing much better than lot of countries and much can/will be learnt from their successes and failures during this past month. What measures worked? I’d say keeping schools open, backed up by a published paper from University College London the other day is their biggest success.
Keeping it from nursing homes their biggest failure by far.
 
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Organic Potatoes said:
*Applauds
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Brilliant post, that.

Honestly, it baffles me that in 2020, there are a lot of people out there who think every other country brainwashes via media propaganda, but theirs is the only one that hasn't succumbed to that proven effective means of pacifying the population. There are so many people lacking critical thinking its unreal. Propaganda is what 'those weird foreign countries do innit'. And saying otherwise makes you a conspiracy theorist. Which again, is pretty good propaganda skills because as soon as the government utters those two words, a huge hoarde of the population will never look into that issue ever again because they don't want to be called one.
 
Arruda said:
This is the cover of Azores biggest newspaper tomorrow's edition.

The lady in blue is the nurse coordinating my team, a brilliant woman who has dedicated 16 hours per day to this fight for the past 4 weeks. The only way we can make her get some rest every now and then is by organizing ourselves and deliberately ignoring her on her off days so that she gives up and goes home a bit earlier.

She is sitting on my chair, that yellow bottle is mine. She sat there because I refused to be photographed when the reporter came in, and an empty chair would look ugly in the picture.

The reason I refused to be photographed is because we had just been given those masks two minutes before and told to put them on. When we saw them coming we were happy, as we have been demanding them for days. To our dismay, we were told we would get one each and that we should take care of it because it would have to last one or two weeks. They're designed to be discarded at least every three hours, sooner if they become damp.

When I saw the reporter coming in, I immediately left in protest, and stood at the door laughing at the situation.

When you talk about propaganda and cover-up in China, think about this. It happens everywhere. You're just oblivious to the one around you.

I'm not being braver than my colleagues by standing up. It's just that they are employees with bosses, whose bosses are the government. I'm a volunteer, so I do what I want, and my colleagues thanked me for embarrassing their bosses and the newspaper.

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Brilliant that.
 
Hammerfell said:


Someone needs to tell the Police to stop doing dumb things.
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What does a non essential aisle look like? Clothes aisle? Maybe my kids need new trousers. Kitchen utensils? Maybe we need a new soup pot because we've wrecked the existing one using it twice a day. Electronics? Maybe the missus needs more double A batteries for that back massager she uses three times a day.

Maybe your baby only eats Angel Delight due to the stress of being stuck indoors for 23 hours every day? And surely everyone needs a decent bottle of plonk for their Ragu that they've been making every Sunday night for ten years now? And who says that Friday Night Fight Club is closed?! Just because you can't leave the house? I've got six challengers in my house already, I don't need anything other than the bottle of Buckfast to get that party started!

Dog food? Well, the dog needs food. Stop trying to violate my dog's human rights. Magnum ice creams? Sorry officer, I was in the frozen aisle and in my haste to grab some potato waffles I accidentally touched this tub if Ben and Jerry's. To avoid contamination I've decided to buy it but I'll happily let you put it back if you want?

And anyone who says you don't need nicotine oil clearly hasn't seen what I'm like in the mornings.
 
Hammerfell said:


Someone needs to tell the Police to stop doing dumb things.
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Mr Pigeon said:
What does a non essential aisle look like? Clothes aisle? Maybe my kids need new trousers. Kitchen utensils? Maybe we need a new soup pot because we've wrecked the existing one using it twice a day. Electronics? Maybe the missus needs more double A batteries for that back massager she uses three times a day.

Maybe your baby only eats Angel Delight due to the stress of being stuck indoors for 23 hours every day? And surely everyone needs a decent bottle of plonk for their Ragu that they've been making every Sunday night for ten years now? And who says that Friday Night Fight Club is closed?! Just because you can't leave the house? I've got six challengers in my house already, I don't need anything other than the bottle of Buckfast to get that party started!

Dog food? Well, the dog needs food. Stop trying to violate my dog's human rights. Magnum ice creams? Sorry officer, I was in the frozen aisle and in my haste to grab some potato waffles I accidentally touched this tub if Ben and Jerry's. To avoid contamination I've decided to buy it but I'll happily let you put it back if you want?

And anyone who says you don't need nicotine oil clearly hasn't seen what I'm like in the mornings.
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They have to just be following orders. If the government thought they were overstepping theyd tell them.

If they knew they were overstepping themselves they wouldnt be flouting it on social media.

They are doing whatever they've been told to do imo.

Someone higher up the food chain needs to get a handle on this not the guys in uniform on the streets
 
arnie_ni said:
They have to just be following orders. If the government thought they were overstepping theyd tell them.

If they knew they were overstepping themselves they wouldnt be flouting it on social media.

They are doing whatever they've been told to do imo.

Someone higher up the food chain needs to get a handle on this not the guys in uniform on the streets
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They've just posted an apology and said it was an over exuberant officer. Which is another way of them saying that they've got a power hungry twat in their ranks who they've had to take to the side and say "shut the feck up Dave, look at the mess you've gotten us into".
 
Hammerfell said:


Someone needs to tell the Police to stop doing dumb things.
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It was all fine until they mentioned the non essential aisle. I'm sure it was best intentioned all the same and at the end of the day it's one officer that's posted on social media, not the entire police service of England and Wales.

The force have apologised and explained their stance. And also that the officer has been spoken to. Big deal? Not really.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
They've just posted an apology and said it was an over exuberant officer. Which is another way of them saying that they've got a power hungry twat in their ranks who they've had to take to the side and say "shut the feck up Dave, look at the mess you've gotten us into".
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Yep, if we're expected to abide by the law and stay within our four walls, then as long we aren't hoarding essential supplies (or causing problems) what we choose to purchase for use in those four walls is literally the only freedom we have left in this situation. It's an impossibility to police anyway, and even if they attempted it it would fizzle out quickly - ridiculous idea.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
Yep, if we're expected to abide by the law and stay within our four walls, then as long we aren't hoarding essential supplies (or causing problems) what we choose to purchase for use in those four walls is literally the only freedom we have left in this situation. It's an impossibility to police anyway, and even if they attempted it it would fizzle out quickly - ridiculous idea.
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Exactly!
 
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Yeah, it's bullshit. They had a go at me the other day for what was in my shopping trolley. Ffs it's my basic right if I want to buy a fifty slow cookers, assorted steel cutlery, two hundred bottles of bleach and some fire lighters.

fecking police state, man
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Yeah, it's bullshit. They had a go at me the other day for what was in my shopping trolley. Ffs it's my basic right if I want to buy a fifty slow cookers, assorted steel cutlery, two hundred bottles of bleach and some fire lighters.

fecking police state, man
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Amateur. Everyone knows you go for 12 bottles of bleach at a time.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
They've just posted an apology and said it was an over exuberant officer. Which is another way of them saying that they've got a power hungry twat in their ranks who they've had to take to the side and say "shut the feck up Dave, look at the mess you've gotten us into".
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Well there you go. I thought the police on the streets were basically being misinformed and genuinely didnt realise what powers they have and dont have right now
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
You'd think a forbes journo would actually check out this stuff rather than just making an article from worldometres figures :lol:

Deaths per days since 2nd April 65, 58, 54, 67, 66, 53, 47 (although those last 2 days likely to get another 10 or so late figures added to them).

Journo has just seen 100+ for two days on Worldometer and hasn't even researched it to show that these were due to late reports which happen absolutely everywhere.
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I'm guessing the deaths figure was probably a catalyst to the article agreed, but to be honest I was more interested in the approach given it differs to most countries... i.e. why they did it, is it working, what'll happen with figures.

Are the number of cases stats 'wrong' too?
 
Stanley Road said:
How are people still getting CV? It should be impossible to get if you follow the guidelines.
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Supermarkets?
Items being delivered to your home?
People working who can't work from home?
Construction workers working on tasks where social distancing is not possible

Some examples of ways to get it within the guidelines
 
We apparently have idiots who this week decided to come holidaying in the south and apparently someone from Spain too, they have been spotted because they had to go to the ER...
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Supermarkets?
Items being delivered to your home?
People working who can't work from home?
Construction workers working on tasks where social distancing is not possible

Some examples of ways to get it within the guidelines
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Supermarket floors are marked out with tape to keep people at distance, hand gel and cleaning fluid for the trolley handle, plastic screens at checkout, plastic curtains from ceiling to floor keeping the people at the checkout next to you completely apart. So i very much doubt its supermarkets. Its most likely the underclass enjoying partys with their friends.
 
Are the number of cases stats 'wrong' too?
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She has a lot wrong to be honest mate, @BeforeKeanetherewasRobson. It's clear she's only looked at worldometers and made her assumptions/article based on that.

She claims 719 Swedes are in intensive care, when that is in fact the total number who have received intensive care. That is the number on worldometres though under "Serious/critical". The actual number of Swedes in intensive care currently is 471.
I mean, it's not even difficult to research, it's public knowledge: https://www.svt.se/datajournalistik/corona-i-intensivvarden/

Sweden are 100% transparent on this, we have a daily 14:00 press conference from the State Epidemiologist where we are talked through everything. Stats, figures, cases, trends, models. How well social distancing is working, what we are doing wrong etc.

We know and have seen the graphs to show that since we started social distancing measures in mid-March, flu and winter tummy bug have dropped off a cliff.
We know that we have stopped the exponential growth in Stockholm and that the curve has been flattened.
We know that Gothenburg looks like to be the next place we will have our main focus on.
We know that we have so far and according to the model can treat and give ICU to everyone that needs it if we keep this up. We still have plenty of capacity there.
We also know we fecked up massively in the Järva area of Stockholm, and that we've done a dog shit job in nursing homes.
We also know that we could seriously feck this up over Easter if people don't follow the guidelines set out for them by the Health Ministry.

As for cases? What does that even mean these days? I mean, Germany has 118,235 cases.... but is anyone claiming they are doing worse than Iran, France or The UK?
 
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Stanley Road said:
Its most likely the underclass enjoying partys with their friends.
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What the absolute feck is this? Is there really any evidence that it's the poorest in our society who are having people over? There's plenty of hoity toity folk in my bit who were having folk over as recently as last weekend, the champagne drinking horse fecking twats that they are.
 
Stanley Road said:
Supermarket floors are marked out with tape to keep people at distance, hand gel and cleaning fluid for the trolley handle, plastic screens at checkout, plastic curtains from ceiling to floor keeping the people at the checkout next to you completely apart. So i very much doubt its supermarkets. Its most likely the underclass enjoying partys with their friends.
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Contact transmission from goods. Supermarket workers and fellow shoppers who have touched the goods.
 
Can’t speak for what’s happening in the Uk but in Ireland most of our clusters are in nursing homes. The residents there can’t socially isolate and agency staff are spreading it between the various locations.
These staff will also infect their families, go off sick from work, someone else replaces them etc etc
 
Slightly disconcerting that many people are shopping without wearing rubber gloves,though may be I'm being a tad paranoid.
 
Trumps comments/tweets etc. as we know are often ham-fisted (or worse) and give off the wrong vibes completely. However its possible his announcement when he referred to the Covid-19 virus as 'the Chinese virus' may have done more to ensure (in a post Pandemic situation) that Beijing takes action against those responsible and to ensure it doesn't occur again.
'Loss of face' over this for China is massive and such things will stir action inside the Country much more than the empty threats about retaliation or seeking compensation etc. arising from elsewhere in the world.

The Chinese government and its people have worked wonders in getting the thing under control and should be rightly praised for it, but the s**t hit the fan in their back yard and they will not want that again. So Donald's comments may do some good...but don't tell him or we will never hear the end of it!
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Wow. Amazing that no other news/media outlet has picked up on the Byline Times discovery.
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It's not really that amazing. Most of them are bought and paid for. Journalism is a dying art.

Watch herd immunity get repackaged at some point with a different name.
 
Nigeria is doing targeted testing and contact tracing with an infection rate of > 50%. The country simply doesn't have the capacity for mass testing. I feel the virus has already got out but many cities are on lockdown.
Now the problem is most Nigerian feed and earn as they work. People are literally starving and in some parts the situation is getting out of hand.
It's a bit of a rock and a hard place. The country cannot afford to allow the virus get out of hand at the same time, people cannot afford to stay at home.
Similar situation in most of sub-saharan africa.
 
Maticmaker said:
Trumps comments/tweets etc. as we know are often ham-fisted (or worse) and give off the wrong vibes completely. However its possible his announcement when he referred to the Covid-19 virus as 'the Chinese virus' may have done more to ensure (in a post Pandemic situation) that Beijing takes action against those responsible and to ensure it doesn't occur again.
'Loss of face' over this for China is massive and such things will stir action inside the Country much more than the empty threats about retaliation or seeking compensation etc. arising from elsewhere in the world.

The Chinese government and its people have worked wonders in getting the thing under control and should be rightly praised for it, but the s**t hit the fan in their back yard and they will not want that again. So Donald's comments may do some good...but don't tell him or we will never hear the end of it!
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The only reason Trump called it the Chinese virus is to avoid blame. He doesn't hmgive a shit what the Chinese do as long as he doesn't carry the can. It is always someone else's fault.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Just came upon this news

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...surance-policy-payout-141-million/5123987002/

For each of the past 17 years, the All-England Lawn Tennis Club has paid for an insurance policy to guard against losses if Wimbledon should have to be canceled in the event of a worldwide pandemic.

That preparation will finally pay off this year. According to a report by the Action Network, the insurance will result in a payment worth $141 million -- or nearly half the amount that the club expects to lose as a result of the cancellation.
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That's some great foresight that! Well done to them!
 
Mr Pigeon said:
What the absolute feck is this? Is there really any evidence that it's the poorest in our society who are having people over? There's plenty of hoity toity folk in my bit who were having folk over as recently as last weekend, the champagne drinking horse fecking twats that they are.
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I'm pretty sure Stan is in the underclass too.
 
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