SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Zlatan 7 said:
Thanks for your time explaining.
I’m still struggling to understand how it didn’t spread a lot faster a lot sooner. I sound like a broken record now but Stadiums full of people, hundreds of stadiums, thousands of people since December. Everyone touching the handrails climbing the stairs, wiping their brows etc. I just don’t understand how it didn’t just wipe through the population
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It doesn't spread as quickly as you might think in stadiums etc. If there are 75,000 people in Old Trafford but only 1 person has the virus, it won't spread to many. That one person might leave a trace of it on a handrail, but if the next person that touches it picks up most of it and then doesn't touch their face for the 20 minutes or so we think it can survive on skin for, there will be no transmission. It might infect a few people but its certainly not like all 75,000 people leave infected.
 
11101 said:
It doesn't spread as quickly as you might think in stadiums etc. If there are 75,000 people in Old Trafford but only 1 person has the virus, it won't spread to many. That one person might leave a trace of it on a handrail, but if the next person that touches it picks up most of it and then doesn't touch their face for the 20 minutes or so we think it can survive on skin for, there will be no transmission. It might infect a few people but its certainly not like all 75,000 people leave infected.
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Some interesting research coming out of Germany about this.

https://today.rtl.lu/news/science-and-environment/a/1498185.html

I also heard that the same study estimated 14% of the population in the town where that cluster started ended up immune.
 
11101 said:
It doesn't spread as quickly as you might think in stadiums etc. If there are 75,000 people in Old Trafford but only 1 person has the virus, it won't spread to many. That one person might leave a trace of it on a handrail, but if the next person that touches it picks up most of it and then doesn't touch their face for the 20 minutes or so we think it can survive on skin for, there will be no transmission. It might infect a few people but its certainly not like all 75,000 people leave infected.
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That’s a very fair point, I understand that, I still struggle to get my head around it not spreading sooner though.
That one person going into old Trafford who may have it still needs to get there, possible public transport, they’ve touched handrails out side the stadium, bought food, been in a pub touched glasses, tables, money, All this stays on the surface days! thousands around him have also come into contact with these things, Everybody touches their face too much whether an itch or whatever. Eating takeaway food (Burger vans) without washing hands. It’s inevitable that it would spread insanely fast imo.

The only conclusion I seem to come to is it’s not very good at spreading through contact, i don’t know.

I’m just staying Home and out of the way because it’s not worth the risk. I just don’t understand it
 
Feed Me said:
Yep, I accept that he needed the preferential treatment owing to his role. It still sticks in the throat when normal people are not afforded the same care, in large part due to the cuts that have left the NHS decimated. Cuts imposed by Boris’s party.
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The worrying thing is how much debt the country is going to be laden with after this, while the economy has also been decimated. We'll likely see austerity that surpasses anything seen since the post-war period. The shelf-stackers etc will soon be forgotten.
 
My nan has received her first care parcel from the government today. It's quite a generous box full. Apparently they'll get one weekly for the foreseeable future now. I'm pleasantly surprised.
 
Sied said:
My nan has received her first care parcel from the government today. It's quite a generous box full. Apparently they'll get one weekly for the foreseeable future now. I'm pleasantly surprised.
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What's in it then? Any Woodbines, bully beef, condensed milk?
 
ManUArfa said:
It's inevitable that there were small pockets of COVID-19 infection in the UK around late January that were not declared or traced, otherwise the containment phase would have worked for longer. Quarantining all people returning from infected areas for 14 days as soon as we knew about it would have also been effective but there would have been uproar. Tens of thousands of UK residents were still taking holidays and making business trips to the Far East, Italy and Spain when we knew they had a serious problem.
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Patient zero' fears he brought coronavirus to UK from ski resort in January
IT consultant Daren Bland, 50, took a four-day trip to the Tyrolean Alps ski resort in mid-January before being struck down with Covid-19-like symptoms on his return to Britain
 
Feed Me said:
I understand Boris getting preferential treatment but the monarchy are contributing nothing to this. Put another way, what’s your view on Prince Andrew and the treatment he would get if he contracted the virus?
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I did say Charles specifically as he's next in line for the throne and likely to be our next King within the next few years.
 
Jippy said:
The worrying thing is how much debt the country is going to be laden with after this, while the economy has also been decimated. We'll likely see austerity that surpasses anything seen since the post-war period. The shelf-stackers etc will soon be forgotten.
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It has to austerity or inflation. I would go for the latter.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Some interesting research coming out of Germany about this.

https://today.rtl.lu/news/science-and-environment/a/1498185.html

I also heard that the same study estimated 14% of the population in the town where that cluster started ended up immune.
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Zlatan 7 said:
That’s a very fair point, I understand that, I still struggle to get my head around it not spreading sooner though.
That one person going into old Trafford who may have it still needs to get there, possible public transport, they’ve touched handrails out side the stadium, bought food, been in a pub touched glasses, tables, money, All this stays on the surface days! thousands around him have also come into contact with these things, Everybody touches their face too much whether an itch or whatever. Eating takeaway food (Burger vans) without washing hands. It’s inevitable that it would spread insanely fast imo.

The only conclusion I seem to come to is it’s not very good at spreading through contact, i don’t know.

I’m just staying Home and out of the way because it’s not worth the risk. I just don’t understand it
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Granted there is still a lot we don't know, but from what we have seen so far, you can be infectious without showing symptoms but its far harder to spread it that way. You have to cough or sneeze to put out any meaningful amount of the virus and that's unlikely to happen if you are not knowingly ill. Everything so far seems to point to requiring prolonged contact with infected people to spread.

It's why i think (only my own uninformed opinion) once the lockdowns start to be relaxed we will be able to go outdoors fairly quickly but there will still be months of restrictions on gatherings indoors or in confined spaces.
 
Grinner said:
What's in it then? Any Woodbines, bully beef, condensed milk?
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She'd have loved the woodbines but unfortunately not. From what I can see in the picture, potatoes, bread, tangerines, apples, milk, cornflakes, carrots, tea bags, tinned stuff. Similar to their usual shop, but with much less wine and vodka.
 
Fiskey said:
It has to austerity or inflation. I would go for the latter.
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It's not necessarily as easy as that though- look how long Japan has being trying to inject inflation into its economy.
 
sglowrider said:
Patient zero' fears he brought coronavirus to UK from ski resort in January
IT consultant Daren Bland, 50, took a four-day trip to the Tyrolean Alps ski resort in mid-January before being struck down with Covid-19-like symptoms on his return to Britain
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In that situation, I hope he doesn't feel any sort of regret or responsibility. It wasn't really known in the same quantity back then and just because he may have been the first doesn't mean he was responsible for everyone or even the most.
 
golden_blunder said:
My wife said this to me at least a week ago, she reads the reports on breakdown. It’s something to look for, is there something in the genetic code? Or is it just coincidence?
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African Americans are more predisposed to pee-existing conditions...hypertension, obesity, diabetes and poorer access to healthcare.
 
Newbie .mica, from Germany:
You know what I call "being free"? I am not f*cked and have to die only cause I got no money in a system which lives from the fact that I got no money and only a dozen people got tons of money. I can go to a doctor, they help me first-class wise, and if I am f*cked cause my job is on pause now, I still got a flat and something to eat. Thats what I call freedom!

I can live. I can live my life like I want and don't spend time struggling to not to die, like I would have to do when I am living in the Stone Age.
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Jacko21 said:
Does anyone know the approach of other countries regarding protecting those identified as extremely vulnerable?

In the UK we have the 12-week measures with food parcels, priority delivery and a volunteer scheme to allow people to shield themselves. But obviously the big question mark is what the guidance will be longer-term whilst we await a vaccine.
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In Ireland it’s a 12 week cocooning for at risk. It’s quite a short list imo. Since my heart surgery, my iron levels have fluctuated, I’ve had to get vitB shots in hospital because of fatigue and I pick up every fecking virus going. But, heart disease is not on the list unless you’re pregnant.

so, IF you are on the list, there’s a scheme where volunteers from the GAA community can pickup and deliver groceries to you, another scheme where the postman can knock on your door to check on you & deliver a newspaper & supposedly government food drops have been mentioned but no evidence of that happening yet.

im in week 5 now of isolating, we don’t go to the shops so relying on deliveries. Tesco emailed last night to say over 70s would now be prioritised so the slim chance of finding a delivery slot is now gone. Only 1 other chain deliver so reliant on that now, as well as finding farm shops etc that deliver. Also found a place in an industrial estate that used to supply the catering trade but have had to diversify to selling stock to the public. €13 for a box of fruit and veg. Order online

thinking outside box
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The answer is probably going to go way over my head but can’t you just put more money in people’s pockets? Paid for by 100 year bonds or something similar.
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It gets into economic theory that goes way over my head too. I think they'd have fairly niche appeal -Argentina issued one a couple of years back cos their economy was fecked - the US only goes up to 30 years for example.
They'd surely need inflation-proofing too?
 
Jippy said:
It's not necessarily as easy as that though- look how long Japan has being trying to inject inflation into its economy.
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They've not gone full money printing though, i.e. giving everyone 10,000,000 yen on a one off basis or introducing UBI. I think it would be possible if you're really aggressive. The difficulty would then be turning the taps off once you've reached 5-10% inflation and starting a slow path back to 2%.
 
Sied said:
She'd have loved the woodbines but unfortunately not. From what I can see in the picture, potatoes, bread, tangerines, apples, milk, cornflakes, carrots, tea bags, tinned stuff. Similar to their usual shop, but with much less wine and vodka.
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Can I ask how she went about getting it?? Is this somewhere in the UK? Did she have to pay for it?
My parents in law are 73 and 81 but they haven’t even had a letter, so wondering how we get them noticed
 
Fiskey said:
They've not gone full money printing though, i.e. giving everyone 10,000,000 yen on a one off basis or introducing UBI. I think it would be possible if you're really aggressive. The difficulty would then be turning the taps off once you've reached 5-10% inflation and starting a slow path back to 2%.
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I guess they didn't go full on money printing for fear they'd lose control?
 
Jippy said:
I guess they didn't go full on money printing for fear they'd lose control?
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Exactly, but in a time of crisis such as we are now in I think you have to pick your medicine.
 
Fiskey said:
Exactly, but in a time of crisis such as we are now in I think you have to pick your medicine.
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It's interesting though, given how long Japan has in been in that low inflation/deflationary vortex. I know they did have loads of debt-laden zombie corporations lumbering along, but thought they'd shaken a lot of that out of the economy.
Definitely not a model others would want to pursue for sure.
 
As mean spirited as that article is, I'd be surprised if those at the top of the Communist party don't see some sort of opportunity to increase their soft power.
I mean, Murica has basically turned to piracy, the EU is nowhere to be seen. They can't even agree a response ffs!
Doesn't mean China sees the virus as a positive.
 
Ady87 said:
EE giving Unlimited Data to NHS staff with a pay monthly plan. They would need to register at this link https://ee.co.uk/nhs-unlimited-data-allowance
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Call me a cynic, but im not convinced that that is really useful in the modern age where most providers give you huge data limits anyway. And the people who are actually still at work are probably the least likely to need all that extra data. I reckon they would prefer 50% off their bills, personally.

Similarly cynical, but the new Premier League players initiative that has been reported over the last day or two.... I have yet to see any actual figures or details on how they are helping and what this new fund is really going to do.

What im getting at is it seems like there are a lot of nice corporate buzz words being thrown around, and woolly, fluffy promises and initiative (great for PR), and not enough of people or organisations just putting their hands in their pockets and helping out in a more obvious and material way (doesnt necessarily just mean "money"). Seems to be a case of various groups saying "What can we do that looks really good, but doesnt actually cost or impact us much in the slightest?"
 
I'm happy that various companies are doing things that benefit NHS staff but I do wonder if this is more PR-related rather than public-spiritedness. And, frankly, a headline about 'free Tesco Easter eggs for nurses' means one less headline about the scandal of how this crisis has been (mis)handled.
 
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Walrus said:
Call me a cynic, but im not convinced that that is really useful in the modern age where most providers give you huge data limits anyway. And the people who are actually still at work are probably the least likely to need all that extra data. I reckon they would prefer 50% off their bills, personally.

Similarly cynical, but the new Premier League players initiative that has been reported over the last day or two.... I have yet to see any actual figures or details on how they are helping and what this new fund is really going to do.

What im getting at is it seems like there are a lot of nice corporate buzz words being thrown around, and woolly, fluffy promises and initiative (great for PR), and not enough of people or organisations just putting their hands in their pockets and helping out in a more obvious and material way (doesnt necessarily just mean "money"). Seems to be a case of various groups saying "What can we do that looks really good, but doesnt actually cost or impact us much in the slightest?"
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A number of engineering companies have planned, to or are in the process of, making ventillators for hospitals:
https://www.cityam.com/mclaren-joins-industrial-push-to-manufacture-10000-ventilators/
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...to-nhs-as-part-of.2xDeE5gsLUrSX7zmE4MeCx.html
 
Walrus said:
Call me a cynic, but im not convinced that that is really useful in the modern age where most providers give you huge data limits anyway. And the people who are actually still at work are probably the least likely to need all that extra data. I reckon they would prefer 50% off their bills, personally.

Similarly cynical, but the new Premier League players initiative that has been reported over the last day or two.... I have yet to see any actual figures or details on how they are helping and what this new fund is really going to do.

What im getting at is it seems like there are a lot of nice corporate buzz words being thrown around, and woolly, fluffy promises and initiative (great for PR), and not enough of people or organisations just putting their hands in their pockets and helping out in a more obvious and material way (doesnt necessarily just mean "money"). Seems to be a case of various groups saying "What can we do that looks really good, but doesnt actually cost or impact us much in the slightest?"
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I don’t think that’s cynical it’s just the reality of big corporations. The Premier League have been wanting to complete the season and they finally came out and admitted they would lose around £750m in TV revenue. They’d rather risk people’s health than lose out on that money.

BT have made no attempt to drop TV subscriptions even though there is no sport on. They have worked it in such a way that the sport is ‘free’ but clearly we are all paying inflated fee for broadband so none of us can reduce our subscriptions. At least Sky has waivered the sports package for subscribers.
 
golden_blunder said:
In Ireland it’s a 12 week cocooning for at risk. It’s quite a short list imo. Since my heart surgery, my iron levels have fluctuated, I’ve had to get vitB shots in hospital because of fatigue and I pick up every fecking virus going. But, heart disease is not on the list unless you’re pregnant.

so, IF you are on the list, there’s a scheme where volunteers from the GAA community can pickup and deliver groceries to you, another scheme where the postman can knock on your door to check on you & deliver a newspaper & supposedly government food drops have been mentioned but no evidence of that happening yet.

im in week 5 now of isolating, we don’t go to the shops so relying on deliveries. Tesco emailed last night to say over 70s would now be prioritised so the slim chance of finding a delivery slot is now gone. Only 1 other chain deliver so reliant on that now, as well as finding farm shops etc that deliver. Also found a place in an industrial estate that used to supply the catering trade but have had to diversify to selling stock to the public. €13 for a box of fruit and veg. Order online

thinking outside box
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Ah interesting.

I am 25 days in to shielding and thankfully I have relatives who can shop for me - as I know some have been struggling to get the supermarkets to recognise them as extremely vulnerable.

I have high nutritional requirements and drink plenty of full-fat milk to boost calories - so seeing dairy farmers literally pouring away milk due to a drop in demand from restaurants, coffee shops etc is frustrating. Hopefully they can come up with a way of redirecting the milk straight to consumers.

I just wonder what the government response will be when the initial guidance comes to an end. They’ve pledge to provide support for as long as people need it - but that could theoretically be needed until there’s a vaccine.
 
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