SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[SAred]

They are probably hiding numbers, considering that they have the tools to control the information. At the same time, it is very plausible that a large decrease in the number of infections (and deaths) has really happened here. Wuhan is still in lockdown after more than 2 months (while US is planning to reopen after 9 days of staying in a much more relaxed lockdown), and the people were more obedient to the rules (not going to parks, beaches and just not respecting the rules).

South Korea has 9k cases with most of them happening while European countries and US had only hundreds of cases, and yet they are doing now very well too.

South Korea have certainly shown the way and what they are doing is very commendable, but Chinese are sending out false information in the height of the problem in China there where less deaths in the whole of China then in Lombardy something is a miss from day one.

The Lockdown of which, I here in South Africa are about to enter a 3 week lockdown on Thursday is for the whole country not just a province how can we except to lockdown has long has Wuham without creating social disorder in a poor country we would not be able to cope and they would be murder on the dance floor.

Trump can not afford to keep a lockdown the whole of America going, its not just locking down one state like what happened in China but the whole place, people will die from many other instances not just a virus, stress is a killer amongst other things.

Governments throughout the world are going to be faced with some serious choices like in my country in 3 weeks time if the lockdown does not work not just Trump.

 

[SAred]

This old chestnut again.

But was it not the truth did it not happen.

 

[sammsky1]

I think Johnson's speech on Monday night was incredibly short of specifics and I'm angry that we're still waiting for them but the one thing he did achieve was making us all scared. I agree, people seemed to act differently today.

I think he wasn’t legally able to be more specific in that speech.

Eg: police being able to fine offenders disobeying orders required new law, hopefully being passed in Parliament on Thursday.

 

[Eriku]

But was it not the truth did it not happen.

From what I understand he was summoned for questioning and pressured by local authorities, which can’t simply be equated with the Chinese state, who weren’t calling the shots in Wuhan that early in the game. Someone wrote pretty extensively about this earlier in the thread, but I can’t say I fancy sifting through a thread that’s growing exponentially for that particular post.

That they’ve tried to silence doctors who have been critical of the handling of the outbreak, on the other hand... so by all means, I’m not cheerleading for China in terms of transparency, I just wouldn’t say the claim that the early intimidation tactics toward Li Wenliang is a matter of firm fact.

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...-to-coronavirus-whistleblower?t=1585117079621

News of his death, coupled with accusations that the government was covering up the outbreak, triggered an avalanche of outrage from a wide cross-section of Chinese society. In response to popular demand, the central government dispatched investigators two days later to look into the circumstances surrounding his police reprimand and death.

Beijing's investigators now conclude that Wuhan authorities acted "inadequately" when they reprimanded the late doctor and failed to follow "proper law enforcement procedure." They did not, however, explain what the correct response should be.

Investigators also characterized his efforts to sound the alarm on the coronavirus as a positive influence that aided in raising awareness.

Shortly after the official findings were published, Wuhan police announced that the two officers responsible for improperly reprimanding Li have been disciplined.

 

[Prometheus]

But was it not the truth did it not happen.

It was fake news.

 

[Pexbo]

Pretty balanced talking from Graham. I hope that the bill passes soon. Less money to CEOs, but also this is not the time for Green New Deal or identity politics to be put on the bill. For now, everything should be focused on the virus.

Fair enough. Very balanced from Graham but it should also be said that it’s also not a good time to be putting an extention of the Presidential term limit into the bill for Trump and I really don’t see a good reason why the Republicans thought they could sneak into the bill a cut in funding to ICE detention centres and regulations relaxed so Hispanic detainees only need to be fed “once every four or five days”. Doesn’t seem like the time or place for these sort of demands.

 

[Prometheus]

I don't buy the death lag, Italy was having much more deaths even a week ago. Also, the critical cases in US are only around a thousands. Even if all of them die (which is not gonna happen), still the number of deaths will be less than in Spain, despite that the number of infected is higher.

Wouldn't the number of critically ill be also lagging?

 

[Volumiza]

Get the batons out.

My style of policing!

Oh I agree. But people have conditioned themselves to have whatever they want whenever they want and the tantrums are coming.

You’re so right and it repulses me.

I'd rather do what I've always done but equally I don't want to end up on a ventilator or condemn someone to a similar fate or worse.

precisely my thoughts too. It’s really not a lot we are being asked to do either is it? I mean really, it’s not a lot, and this situation already highlights how far down a really shitty and selfish path a lot of us have gone.

 

[Revan]

Fair enough. Very balanced from Graham but it should also be said that it’s also not a good time to be putting an extention of the Presidential term limit into the bill for Trump and I really don’t see a good reason why the Republicans thought they could sneak into the bill a cut in funding to ICE detention centres and regulations relaxed so Hispanic detainees only need to be fed “once every four or five days”. Doesn’t seem like the time or place for these sort of demands.

Sure, agree. And that is the parts of the bill that need to be fought (in addition to making sure that the money given to companies don’t go to CEOs, stock buys, bonuses etc), not introducing their own bill which talks about diversity, climate change (something that needs to be taken seriously but not on this bill) or state elections.

 

[Pexbo]

Sure, agree. And that is the parts of the bill that need to be fought (in addition to making sure that the money given to companies don’t go to CEOs, stock buys, bonuses etc), not introducing their own bill which talks about diversity, climate change (something that needs to be taken seriously but not on this bill) or state elections.

Oh shit you actually do take everything you’re told at face value.

 

[SAred]

From what I understand he was summoned for questioning and pressured by local authorities, which can’t simply be equated with the Chinese state, who weren’t calling the shots in Wuhan that early in the game. Someone wrote pretty extensively about this earlier in the thread, but I can’t say I fancy sifting through a thread that’s growing exponentially for that particular post.

That they’ve tried to silence doctors who have been critical of the handling of the outbreak, on the other hand... so by all means, I’m not cheerleading for China in terms of transparency, I just wouldn’t say the claim that the early intimidation tactics toward Li Wenliang is a matter of firm fact.

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...-to-coronavirus-whistleblower?t=1585117079621

I have only joined this thread now sorry did not fancy back tracking to page one. But you cant either prove the fact right or wrong or it did or did not happen.

There is so much false information out there its hard to believe what is right and what is not. Just like the figures coming out of China.

 

[SAred]

It was fake news.

Look the Chinese have known to cover stuff up so why all of a sudden is this guys dying testament fake news, what a coincident he is no longer with us. but hell those figures coming out of China must be the truth honest.

 

[MackRobinson]

So another extremely low figure coming out of China, its a miracle really while the rest of the world burns. Something is not right with those figures.

The Chinese only lock downed Wuham but the virus was all over the country yet another miracle very little cases coming out of the rest of China. Not heard any reports of them doing a complete lockdown of the country and yet very few cases coming out not only of Wuham but all of China. Something is amiss with there figures.

Countries with far smaller populations are having deaths in there hundreds daily but good old China just about none. Its a miracle I tell you oh and a quite mention to the outstanding job being done in Russia another miracle.

Have you seen the extreme measures China is taking?


I saw the original video and I want to say it was posted around March 5th.

 

[Eriku]

I have only joined this thread now sorry did not fancy back tracking to page one. But you cant either prove the fact right or wrong or it did or did not happen.

There is so much false information out there its hard to believe what is right and what is not. Just like the figures coming out of China.

I don’t blame you, that’s why I did a search and found the NPR article.

As you say, very hard to assess the veracity of these claims, but there’s certainly an element of doubt about Beijing directing how it was handled by local government.

Btw, you say what a coincidence that he’s dead, you do know he was a casualty of Covid-19?

 

[Prometheus]

Look the Chinese have known to cover stuff up so why all of a sudden is this guys dying testament fake news, what a coincident he is no longer with us. but hell those figures coming out of China must be the truth honest.

Do some research and inform yourself first, please. Your post is coming across as a conspiracy rant (dying testament, implying that he was killed etc).

 

[Wumminator]

Almost got into a massive fight about this last night.

Went for a drive yesterday just to see the emptiness really. As I was around there was one pub that had music playing and punters drinking outside.

Obviously I didn’t want to leave my car but drove by and told them they were all tossers. I fully expected some shit back, but two big lads calmly approached and said that I wasn’t to worry, they were affluent and likeminded people with the UK’s best interests at heart. Boy was I relieved!

 

[Zlatan 7]

@Revan you’ve been in here talking shit for a while. I think you should start checking facts before you go posting things such as 9/10 and 90% Tested are asymptomatic So assuringly and then a few posts later saying oh shit I might be wrong.

Slow down, Fact check before spreading doom and false hope

 

[Fener1907]

I'm not following here, what I said is factual, it's not an interpretation, here you have the Influenza updates from the WTO. Influenza activity increased in the northern emisphere in January, remained elevated in February and a decrease is noted in the March 16th report.

So I will say it one more time, during the previous months we have been in a period of high activity when it comes to the flu and Covid19 was also around.

Did I say that the flu hasn't been around? Did I say that statistics don't exist? Did I say that something existed that was neither the flu nor Covid-19?

I'm not at all sure what you're arguing against here.

 

[africanspur]

"A glorious death is more rewarding."

Lets see how glorious they find clawing for breath with a dozen tubes hanging out of their body.

Yep, there is nothing glorious about it at all. I saw a case last week where the guy came in and was gasping for breath. His lungs were literally drowning in his own fluid and he was crying and begging us to help him breath. Scrambling all over the place. We had to sedate and intubate him in the end.

If he dies, with the restrictions on visiting in my hospital, he'll likely die without any family or friends around him. Wait a week or two for the cases to explode and he may not even have a nurse or doctor around him as he dies.

This shit is harrowing and these idiots genuinely think they're riding off into war or something. Glorious death

 

[Eriku]

Almost got into a massive fight about this last night.

Went for a drive yesterday just to see the emptiness really. As I was around there was one pub that had music playing and punters drinking outside.

Obviously I didn’t want to leave my car but drove by and told them they were all tossers. I fully expected some shit back, but two big lads calmly approached and said that I wasn’t to worry, they were affluent and likeminded people with the UK’s best interests at heart. Boy was I relieved!

How are the returns from that phrase not diminishing? Solid gold!

 

[africanspur]

So another extremely low figure coming out of China, its a miracle really while the rest of the world burns. Something is not right with those figures.

The Chinese only lock downed Wuham but the virus was all over the country yet another miracle very little cases coming out of the rest of China. Not heard any reports of them doing a complete lockdown of the country and yet very few cases coming out not only of Wuham but all of China. Something is amiss with there figures.

Countries with far smaller populations are having deaths in there hundreds daily but good old China just about none. Its a miracle I tell you oh and a quite mention to the outstanding job being done in Russia another miracle.

So there's two things about this.

China's figures are almost certainly below the true figures. Its the nature of their government. I also have a friend from HK who works in public health (who admittedly doesn't like the mainland) who's told me there's news of some small towns in China still reporting a few new cases while the provincial government is saying 0.

Having said that, China's measures (once the central government sidelined the Wuhan provincial government) were swift and incredibly effective. They took measures that Western governments seem loathe to take and even now have incredible measures in place. Just like with most Public Health initiatives, prevention is key. I can bore people with the details if they like but what China and HK are doing right now is incredibly impressive.

As Pogue has said, there's also more of a sense of civic duty over there, while people here still seem to think this is all a big joke/ a great chance for a BBQ.

 

[Volumiza]

Yep, there is nothing glorious about it at all. I saw a case last week where the guy came in and was gasping for breath. His lungs were literally drowning in his own fluid and he was crying and begging us to help him breath. Scrambling all over the place. We had to sedate and intubate him in the end.

If he dies, with the restrictions on visiting in my hospital, he'll likely die without any family or friends around him. Wait a week or two for the cases to explode and he may not even have a nurse or doctor around him as he dies.

This shit is harrowing and these idiots genuinely think they're riding off into war or something. Glorious death

 

[africanspur]

Yes - my bad, in a different post I wrote that Japan has done half the tests of the state of South Australia - city is Adelaide, about one million people - which had done 17,800 tests by the 23rd of March, probably more now. My mistake.

Just see the disparity - 125 million people in Japan, about 25 million people in Australia and the figure above is from one city. This is all part of a wider problem in political life here.

The Japanese media and different Japanese people I've talked to keep telling me how right wing and extremist Trump and the US Govt is. There's very little scrutiny of their own political culture, still heavily connected to the far right that destroyed Japan's pre-World War 2 developing democracy and dragged the country down the dark tunnel of fascism.

Key members of the current J Government are the grandchildren of war criminals - and they have never distanced themselves from what was done by them, in fact the current leader of Japan, Abe, has publicly whinged about supposedly unfair criticism of his grandfather. This Government's first instinct is to be censorious and secretive. I'm not at all surprised by how small the test numbers are compared to the population.

No worries!

For sure. I've been to Japan a few times now, one of my favourite countries (and cultures). I wish I'd had a chance to live there at some point in my life, so jealous that you've been able to! There is definitely an undercurrent to the culture though that is kind of skipped over by a lot of people.

I wasn't all that surprised when you told me that they've barely tested because they do have a very 'everything is ok, carry on and don't rock the boat' kind of culture. Which in many ways is lovely. Certainly leads to a lot of its own problems though!

 

[Grinner]

I have only joined this thread now sorry did not fancy back tracking to page one. But you cant either prove the fact right or wrong or it did or did not happen.

There is so much false information out there its hard to believe what is right and what is not. Just like the figures coming out of China.

It's up to you to do your research. Do not come here with bullshit conspiracy nonsense.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah, over here construction workers still have to go to work. I've seen people asking why they can't go for coffee with their friends if construction workers are still working (if it's not safe for me to go for coffee with my friends how is it safe for them to still be working)?

Like those guys wouldn't love to be able to better protect themselves and their families by not working instead of being used as a weak argument by entitled fecks who can't see sense, only what they are being forced to do.

I love my dogs but I wish I didn't have to walk them at least twice a day. I'd much rather hole up at home for two weeks and deal with it. This pandemic is making me hate people more than I already do.

Walking the dog is the only thing keeping me sane! Tbh I don’t think there’s any risk in doing it either. People are getting a little carried away about outdoor transmission IMO. There’s pretty much zero chance of getting infected outside unless you get right up in someone’s face. Having a dog at the end of a two metre lead is a good reminder of that anyway!

 

[11101]

I don't buy the death lag, Italy was having much more deaths even a week ago. Also, the critical cases in US are only around a thousands. Even if all of them die (which is not gonna happen), still the number of deaths will be less than in Spain, despite that the number of infected is higher. It might be a part of the explanation but not the main part IMO.

I still think that like in Germany (and South Korea), the fatality rate is lower cause the number of tests is higher. The more tests you do, the more asymptotic (or people will mild symptoms) you find. In fact, the spike in US has happened partially cause in the last week the number of testing has increased so much (and partially cause of New York exploding).

Let's see. If the country is shut down for another month, there might be good times ahead.

It takes on average 5 days for symptoms to show and 8 days from there to die, so roughly two weeks in total. Yesterday the US had ~163 deaths. Two weeks ago the US had 1200 cases. Two weeks after Italy had 1200 cases they had 175 deaths in a day. There is not a huge difference there.

However you look at it the US is facing the biggest challenge of any country so far. Their case progression is almost twice that of anywhere else. Either it is spreading like absolute wildfire, or the population is already riddled with it and they are now finding that out. Considering they have only tested 0.1% of their population so far (Italy 0.5%, Korea 0.6%) they have a long way to go on either course.

 

[Bojan11]

Well Brazil seems to be fecked too. Their president is doing a Trump and dismissing it saying it’s the media hyping it up.

 

[sglowrider]

So another extremely low figure coming out of China, its a miracle really while the rest of the world burns. Something is not right with those figures.

The Chinese only lock downed Wuham but the virus was all over the country yet another miracle very little cases coming out of the rest of China. Not heard any reports of them doing a complete lockdown of the country and yet very few cases coming out not only of Wuham but all of China. Something is amiss with there figures.

Countries with far smaller populations are having deaths in there hundreds daily but good old China just about none. Its a miracle I tell you oh and a quite mention to the outstanding job being done in Russia another miracle.

More cities had been locked down. They also made it a law that you cannot be outside the house without a mask.

Every visitor that centres China now has to be quarantined into a hotel fo their choice for 14 days, then tested.

 

[sglowrider]

It takes on average 5 days for symptoms to show and 8 days from there to die, so roughly two weeks in total. Yesterday the US had ~163 deaths. Two weeks ago the US had 1200 cases. Two weeks after Italy had 1200 cases they had 175 deaths in a day. There is not a huge difference there.

However you look at it the US is facing the biggest challenge of any country so far. Their case progression is almost twice that of anywhere else. Either it is spreading like absolute wildfire, or the population is already riddled with it and they are now finding that out. Considering they have only tested 0.1% of their population so far (Italy 0.5%, Korea 0.6%) they have a long way to go on either course.

Special Wuhan Sauce for Trump.

 

[Robbo's Shoulder]

Almost got into a massive fight about this last night.

Went for a drive yesterday just to see the emptiness really. As I was around there was one pub that had music playing and punters drinking outside.

Obviously I didn’t want to leave my car but drove by and told them they were all tossers. I fully expected some shit back, but two big lads calmly approached and said that I wasn’t to worry, they were affluent and likeminded people with the UK’s best interests at heart. Boy was I relieved!

Come on be fair, they were probably only out for a roast dinner.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The upside to this is that just maybe those stupid cnuts might be the ones who actually end up catching it.

There could be people somewhere thinking, 'Good. Less Americans'. Not anyone on here of course.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Got woken up at 6 this morning to road works, tried to go and ask one of the guys what was going but couldn't hear each other over the thumping noise. Didn't want to get too close either.

Then I went on the beeb and it made sense. They must have been told to finish all work as soon as possible before they're all told to cease work.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Asda website is down. I was just going to check if they sold certain things there as Asda nearer for me to walk to than Tesco. Get a bit of exercise at the same time. Then I will be trying to stop in as much as I can, I will just go to my local Co-op for milk and bread if needed.

 

[jojojo]

Asda website is down. I was just going to check if they sold certain things there as Asda nearer for me to walk to than Tesco. Get a bit of exercise at the same time. Then I will be trying to stop in as much as I can, I will just go to my local Co-op for milk and bread if needed.

I was in an Asda yesterday, because one of my shopping lists was very specific about wanting certain Asda branded products (like their low fat cottage cheese, rather than just any old cottage cheese).

The only significant empty spaces I noticed on the shelves was that baked beans seemed thin on the ground - but obviously there's a lot of luck involved in it.

As for websites down, yes, they are all very busy - and they've been up and down over the last few days. The online shopping bits are way overloaded and if you do make it to the checkout the delivery slots are thin on the ground.

That said - most of the supermarkets are promising to offer a kind of fast track to people on the "stay in for twelve weeks" list, though how that will work in reality is anyone's guess.

 

[fergosaurus]

Could I reuse an N95 mask if I quarantined it for a period of days and gave it a good clean with an alcohol wipe? Does anyone know how many days the virus could potentially survive on it?

Spoiler: FFP2 / N95 Mask

These masks are not marketed as re-usable masks because respirator dust masks are usually intended for use in a construction environment.

However, the OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) directive indicates that a respirator can be reused as long as it "maintains its structural and functional integrity and the filter material is not physically damaged or soiled".

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

I cannot see this lasting only for 2 weeks. Wuhan is staying for almost 3 months in lockdown, Italy and Spain will likely stay for 6+ weeks or so.

Assuming that you are in some suburban place, I think that the risk or getting infected (or infecting others) while going for a walk is quite small. If it is a city when there are more people walking then yes, it is a bit risky.

Definitely not. Look at the incremental approach our government has taken - herd immunity with no real changes; mild changes; slightly stronger changes; lockdown.

Our government are using that approach to soften the blow, and the same will stand true for the lockdown itself.

I'm expecting - 3 weeks initially. Boris then says he's been advised it has to extend by another 3 weeks.

Then at the end of that period, he states that the country will begin slowly unlocking in 2 more weeks time. 8 in total. Around mid-May is my estimate.

If he'd told the country 8 weeks during his speech, he'd have faced a bit more resistance and a lot more idiots would be congregating still. Basic stuff really.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Camden High Street at 4:30

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I was in an Asda yesterday, because one of my shopping lists was very specific about wanting certain Asda branded products (like their low fat cottage cheese, rather than just any old cottage cheese).

The only significant empty spaces I noticed on the shelves was that baked beans seemed thin on the ground - but obviously there's a lot of luck involved in it.

As for websites down, yes, they are all very busy - and they've been up and down over the last few days. The online shopping bits are way overloaded and if you do make it to the checkout the delivery slots are thin on the ground.

That said - most of the supermarkets are promising to offer a kind of fast track to people on the "stay in for twelve weeks" list, though how that will work in reality is anyone's guess.

Just drove past Asda and was amazed how quiet the car park was, only about 1/4 full. The local CO-OP was quietish too. Hopefully this means the panic has subsided a bit.

 

[sun_tzu]

Yeah, over here construction workers still have to go to work. I've seen people asking why they can't go for coffee with their friends if construction workers are still working (if it's not safe for me to go for coffee with my friends how is it safe for them to still be working)?

Like those guys wouldn't love to be able to better protect themselves and their families by not working instead of being used as a weak argument by entitled fecks who can't see sense, only what they are being forced to do.

I love my dogs but I wish I didn't have to walk them at least twice a day. I'd much rather hole up at home for two weeks and deal with it. This pandemic is making me hate people more than I already do.

I think a lot of construction sites will shut down by the end of the week

I am seeing a lot of people looking to make works secure and safe by Friday presumably for a lengthy shut down

There will be some works that need to continue... Safety critical stuff... Propping and structures around transport networks... Utilities etc but I think my Monday you will see massive reductions at least on major civils contracts

I believe the big housebuilders took similar steps yesterday and suspect the medium and smaller ones will follow suit

 

[Dans]

I just watch a moving documentary on BBC World - it's called WorkLife I think but not sure how it can be viewed online. The film tracks the lives of a few people in Wuhan during the onset of the spread of the virus. I recommend.

Looks like this is it: