SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Danish PM just anounced that every meassure taken will stay in place until at least april 13. That will make it at least a month where the country is basically shut down. No schools, no gyms, no bars, no gatherings of more than 10 people, people told to work from home.
 
FFS. All for internet points and attention.

For a moment I thought the message was going to be positive, like, the challenge is making it to the toilet without touching anything.
That's exactly what I thought was going to happen.

How are you gonna dress up all fashionable and walk with swagger only to find a toilet and lick it.
 
Thanks for taking the time to post this. Its human nature unfortunately to need someone else to blame.

Personally my opinion of China and the chinese government has quite improved since this began, I think they had mapped and published the full genome sequence of this virus internationally by the 11th January? I don't know exactly what is involved in that process but the speed still seems mind-bogglingly quick from only a few cases of pnemonia in late December.

From what I've seen and read the Chinese people are very unhappy with the Chinese Communist Party's initial cover-up of the virus. There is a giant propaganda effort underway by them to deflect from this. I certainly agree the people of China in general and their culture is amazing.

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2020/03/19/lets-call-communist-party-coronavirus/

And let's not forget the forced organ harvesting.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646
 
I bet you could make some decent money from a drive in cinema right now.
 
Exactly. Only
I work for a private independent so things are slightly different. But our headteacher is trying to climb the career ladder is doing anything to carry favour with the board.

He even offered to take other schools vulnerable kids and open over Easter until all the staff team threatened to go on self isolation if he enforced it.

He's seeing this as an opportunity to get a few favours in his pocket and is showing no regard to his staffs wellbeing
Then he's a nob who should be reported. If I knew him, I'd name him all over social media.
 
Oh really?
You know that they can’t even fecking import life saving drugs and necessary medical equipment. There are sanctions.... because of.... don’t even go down this road

There domestically developed mobile app for corona virus for their citizens have been banned by google.... imagine!
I agree the US stance is shameful.
 
From people hitting the beaches of California and Florida, to people roaming around in UK and to Indians dancing in groups on roads to show solidarity to medical staff fighting virus, it seems stupidity knows no nationality.
 



I want to see Sadiq Khan threatening to send in the police with flamethrowers


We have military helicopters flying overhead now looking for people on the streets. It was noticeably quieter this weekend than it has been in the past, despite the previous 2 weeks of lockdown.
 
None of that is true.

Let me explain you how things work in Medicine.

- Doctors treat patients, even when they don't know what they have. One of these conditions would be called "pneumonia of unknown etiology" or something to that effect. It happens pretty often, here and there.

- By mid-December doctors in Wuhan got concerned about a cluster of patients with this sort of pneumonia; on the 18th there were 8 patients identified. One patient isn't enough, neither are two... You, as a frontline doctor, need a reasonable amount of "strange" clinical cases to even realize something is wrong, so that the specialists who study this kind of outbreak can be called upon to act.

- Genetics, mode of transmission, epidemiology, take some time to study. There may have been many occasions where perhaps wrong decisions were made and time was lost but this is not only expected, it's unavoidable. It takes time to be sure what you're dealing with.

- China started imposing measures in Wuhan very fast, and by 23rd January the city was in full lockdown. This was insanely swift, given that the knowledge of the disease was still being compiled. The results are there for everyone to see. They contained it, after extending measures to other cities. They took maybe two weeks to decide this. When you compare the magnitude of the decision (Economics), and how long western countries are taking to make the same decisions, there is no way it's hypocritical to criticize western leaders. They were far slower, with plenty more information. Do you really think if the outbreak had been in one of these countries it would have been better contained than China? No way.

- After all this is done, "backtracing" allowed them to conclude that the first confirmed patient was in the 1st of December. This is hindsight. Not knowledge at the time. We may even conclude in the future that first patients were in October in some random village in the mountains. Without large clusters it would be natural they would have gone undetected on a national scale, let alone studied. This is why you "heard" of a virus in November. You heard it now, not then.

- No doctors were arrested, or at least there is no reasonable evidence pointing towards this. What we do know is that a doctor, named Li Wenliang, was among the first persons to understand the world-changing nature of the outbreak being studied and try to speak publicly about it. I don't even know if he realized this because he had access to higher-level preliminary information or just out of his own reasoning (just like many "early warner" doctors did a bit everywhere - including, modesty aside, me in my own country, at a much lower and quieter level).

- Li Wenliang wasn't arrested. He was called by local government officials and told to shut up. Then he returned to his normal life and work, util he got ill and died - in absolute freedom (well, as absolute as freedom can be in a country like China)

- Silencing someone may look more daunting because it came from an autocratic country, but from a Public Health perspective it may very well be reasonable. I wish my government did the same around here with all the naysayers that have been causing damage. In hindsight, in China they were wrong, but the principle is the same.

- There will be a gazillion of unexplained small things in here, after all it's China, we are very distant from them, even at a cultural and communication level. It's stupid to conclude from these failures that they could have contained this. It's expecting more from them than you expect from your own leaders. All that matters from politics here is how they relate to Public Health, and on this, the Central Chinese Government has been spot on (so far) and fast. Mostof those "silencing" issues came from local government, run-of-the-mill local crap leaders, which exist everywhere

- Lots more to be said, but it's tiring. I've been thinking of writing a well thought and referenced artocle about this, but have had trouble focusing.

[Opinion, not facts]
- Don't fall for Propaganda. Fake news of "8 arrested doctors" and country-wide cover-up have been popping everywhere for weeks, bit increasing severely now. For anyone who has been studying this for weeks it's pretty obvious what the goal is - deflect blame from western leaders, who were, with no exceptions, far more inept than the Chinese at protecting their people.
Well done for posting this. I've corrected this misinformation from people several times on this thread, sometimes for people to just say nothing only to then repeat the same misinformation a few pages later.
Thanks for taking the time to post this. Its human nature unfortunately to need someone else to blame.

Personally my opinion of China and the chinese government has quite improved since this began, I think they had mapped and published the full genome sequence of this virus internationally by the 11th January? I don't know exactly what is involved in that process but the speed still seems mind-bogglingly quick from only a few cases of pnemonia in late December.
So has mine. It was only after I was curious to see what they did that I realised 99% of what people have been saying about China were untrue. I was amazed to learn that they informed WHO 4 days after the doctors reported the possible outbreak to the authorities.
 
For anyone who wants to get a better idea of how their country (or others) is doing in terms of cases, deaths, recoveries (and where on the curve they are to be), this site is quite good.

You click on the country, then you get each key figure, linear and daily, plus some comments at the bottom.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
 


If he follows through on this, America is absolutely fecked. These people need to be criminally accountable for "political" decisions which sacrifice lives over money.
 
We need someone like Roy Keane to go on a rant
Thanks for taking the time to post this. Its human nature unfortunately to need someone else to blame.

Personally my opinion of China and the chinese government has quite improved since this began, I think they had mapped and published the full genome sequence of this virus internationally by the 11th January? I don't know exactly what is involved in that process but the speed still seems mind-bogglingly quick from only a few cases of pnemonia in late December.

This is what I have been also saying. Dr. Li was told to shut up by the local Wuhan police and not the central government.
The fact that the Chinese public are unhappy with the government shows that they are not slaves or that repressed as some westerners think they are.
The fact that by January they have shared everything they know with WHO and the international community shows that they knew this was going to get bad and they don't want to hide anything.
The Russians closed their borders and started to screen people since January according to WHO.
What makes me really angry is that governments in Europe and North America had all these months to be prepared for what was going to happen yet did nothing at all. They have all these deaths on their heads. The Chinese can be blamed for the dead in China but they can't be blamed for the deaths in the UK or USA etc.
UCLA nurses don't have any protection at all. My sister in law is a very senior nurse and now in isolation with very high fever and coughing. She is now waiting for her test results which is going to take a few days at least.
The USA is still spending billions in warfare and other useless spending yet can't spend on protection for doctors and nurses.
 
I get the london situation but what is the danger of two people playing table tennis outside ? The virus isn't floating in the air 24 hours of the day, people should be able to leave their houses at certain times. These clips just like look the local Italian mayors have a little bit of a mussolini moment. Also screaming at people to stay indoors but to then to run up to members of the public(Social distancing ?)isn't a good look.

Or am I missing something ?
I think they're just stressed out. The role of Mayor in Italy is more than just a ceremonial non-executive one, they basically run the smallest units of government (the municipalities, or Comunes). However, some Comunes are huge - Rome for instance is one Comune.

They have a lot of personal responsibility in times like this.
 
For anyone who wants to get a better idea of how their country (or others) is doing in terms of cases, deaths, recoveries (and where on the curve they are to be), this site is quite good.

You click on the country, then you get each key figure, linear and daily, plus some comments at the bottom.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

I've been checking that every day. A late surge from America but Japan have gone from 4th to 25th in three weeks. Relegation form that.
 
Does anyone know of any reputable sources which explain why the death toll within the US and Germany are considerably less (relative)?

Can't speak for America but I think I read Germany have been testing more people and also have more available beds and medical equipment to keep people alive. Basically they're still getting lots of sick people but are able to treat more. That's the only difference really. They are just better prepared.
 
Considering the grave situation in Italy at the moment, it's paramount that people follow the restrictions otherwise the virus will continue to spread. So 2 guys playing table tennis might not be such a problem, it gives the impression that it's ok to be outside socialising. I imagine these Mayors are under a lot of pressure to keep the situation in their towns under control.
Fair enough. I get that impressions mean a lot(The UK being a clear example)it's just at some point people can't being in lockdown 24/7.
I think they're just stressed out. The role of Mayor in Italy is more than just a ceremonial non-executive one, they basically run the smallest units of government (the municipalities, or Comunes). However, some Comunes are huge - Rome for instance is one Comune.

They have a lot of personal responsibility in times like this.
Ah cheers didn't know this
 
I'd have to go through the house. I'll do it but I'm gonna tell him to have the front and back doors open beforehand.

Gonna treat this like a game of "the floor is lava" except everything is lava.
Honestly - I'm not a doctor but there are simple precautions you can take. You don't have to be excessively worried.
Wear disposable gloves - fresh ones of course so you aren't leaving anything on door handles, surfaces etc. Do you have alcohol based wipes or at least wet tissues? I'm in Tokyo and there are plenty of sanitation products that are cheap if you can't afford or can't buy the more expensive ones because they're sold out.

If you can't get them wherever you are, take a clean cloth and some cleaner - bathroom cleaner, even a strong washing up liquid will do it. Clean any surfaces you touch if you can't avoid then use another clean cloth to dry the wetness. A clean scarf around your mouth and lower part of the nose will be enough to stop them breathing in any of your droplets. And wear a hat.

I think the authorities are becoming over-bearing. I went to see cherry blossom trees by myself yesterday in Tokyo and people, especially families, were not having the usual parties at those kind of locations but they were walking around looking and taking photographs. In fresh air and sunshine - two of the best natural antidotes to viruses especially the Vitamin D from the sun.

Authorities should worry about crowded shopping areas of which there are too many in Japan and employers should be staggering their workers' starting hours. Some are doing it but the subways and trains are still too packed. I have taken to walking to a big station that before I went to by my local subway line. The big station is only 5 minutes from the station I get off for my work. At night I do the same and walk home 30 minutes instead of riding my local subway line. Too many Tokyoites are still packing the trains until 10.30pm or so from early evening.

THAT'S the problem - not people walking around in fresh air and sunlight.
 
Just found out my cousin has it. Had a sore throat for a while then recovered before full blown symptoms. Burning hot, red face and sweating bad and can barely speak. They said she’ll be okay, thank God.
My sister is a deputy head at a school in London which isn’t closed for some reason, not sure why. Her boss is insisting she come in even though she told her boss she don’t feel good.
 
I've been checking that every day. A late surge from America but Japan have gone from 4th to 25th in three weeks. Relegation form that.
Ah yes, the wonders of not testing any apart from a miniscule percentage of the population especially in Tokyo and Greater Tokyo with around 13 million people.
And now the Olympics will be postponed - not if but when. I'd love to ask the neo-right wingers running Japan how worth it they think playing russian roulette with Japanese citizens' and residents' health is now?
 
Can't speak for America but I think I read Germany have been testing more people and also have more available beds and medical equipment to keep people alive. Basically they're still getting lots of sick people but are able to treat more. That's the only difference really. They are just better prepared.

It's also worth looking at the total number of recoveries in germany. They're at 422 out of 27k cases. France have had 16k cases and 2k recoveries.
 
True, my criticism would be that many governments have been reactive rather than proactive in stopping spread.

Many? A couple of governments... And not getting it doesn't really help unless we're all just going to live indoors indefinitely. It doesn't just go away... So are those more "proactive" governments (and really, it's just reacting faster) actually helping anyone?

There's no smart solution here, just plenty of guesses.
 
Jesus, that guy sounds healthier than me and what he went through sounds horrendous. :nervous:

Pretty scary isn’t it, and to have just had it dismissed by doctors and so boarded a long haul flight after feeling better is maddening. Hopefully he’d have been past the contagious stage by then but who knows.
 
It's also worth looking at the total number of recoveries in germany. They're at 422 out of 27k cases. France have had 16k cases and 2k recoveries.

I wouldn't read too much into those stats to be honest. The same site says the UK only has 20 people in critical condition in the entire country. Do you believe this?
 
Pretty scary isn’t it, and to have just had it dismissed by doctors and so boarded a long haul flight after feeling better is maddening. Hopefully he’d have been past the contagious stage by then but who knows.
I think the scariest part is how many people he has been in contact with in the 3 weeks since his symptoms (largely) cleared up. Three airports, two flights, a stag, family get-togethers etc. I'm sure he's far from the only person that happened with, either. I'm not sure how the test-kits work but if they can still detect covid-19 in him does that not mean he was still contagious for those 3 weeks? Or would the virus in him be docile by then?
 
It is interesting watching him squirm as he desperately tries to balance between protecting his own assets and keeping his re-election hopes alive.
 
I think the scariest part is how many people he has been in contact with in the 3 weeks since his symptoms (largely) cleared up. Three airports, two flights, a stag, family get-togethers etc. I'm sure he's far from the only person that happened with, either. I'm not sure how the test-kits work but if they can still detect covid-19 in him does that not mean he was still contagious for those 3 weeks? Or would the virus in him be docile by then?

Agree 100% and I’ve no idea on the question of whether he’d still be contagious at that point.

The numbers of cases of this thing are unquestionably being enormously underreported due to not being tested.
 
I think the scariest part is how many people he has been in contact with in the 3 weeks since his symptoms (largely) cleared up. Three airports, two flights, a stag, family get-togethers etc. I'm sure he's far from the only person that happened with, either. I'm not sure how the test-kits work but if they can still detect covid-19 in him does that not mean he was still contagious for those 3 weeks? Or would the virus in him be docile by then?

A woman died from COVID-19 here today. A day after returning from Los Angeles. Apparently collapsed at home after being picked up at the airport! She'd also recently travelled to France and Tahiti.

I'm amazed at the decisions some people are making right now.
 
That can’t be serious? He’ll be lynched. Locally and globally.

What happens if this doesn't go away for 6-8 months? Are we all supposed to stay at home for that long? It's not possible at all. Eventually we are all going to have to crack on as it were as tough as that may sound. What choice do we have if it doesn't go away any time soon? Most people can't survive longer than a few months with no cash.
 
Can't speak for America but I think I read Germany have been testing more people and also have more available beds and medical equipment to keep people alive. Basically they're still getting lots of sick people but are able to treat more. That's the only difference really. They are just better prepared.
Nah. It is bcs their cases are from travelling to Italy and Tyrol. So infected are younger, where as in Italy, Spain and US it was going longer unnoticed, so also old people got infected. Germany's FCR will rise. And Italy only tests people that are quite sick. They don't have time to test people under 50. FCR is about 0.5-2% everywhere when population and testing is similar