SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

On a sombre note, here's a queue of lorries taking about 60 coffins from Bergamo to crematoria in Bologna and Modena, because the cemeteries are full in Bergamo.
WhatsApp%20Image%202020-03-18%20at%2023.04.08-ki6G-U3170157272431910B-656x492@Corriere-Web-Bergamo.jpeg

https://bergamo.corriere.it

Grim sight, what time of the night did they do this?
 
Asda said from 6 to 9am it was supposed to be elderly and said others should stay away if they can. Yet these people came and staff got overwhelmed. It’s hard to control this amount of people. Supermarket security can’t do shit. They even dare touch someone they could lose their job. Time for military and police to be in these shops. Limited people in shop and one of each item for every person.

Yet again the public refuse/are unable to take responsibility. It's fecking pathetic really. There's no shortages, life is actually continuing to go on relatively normally actually, no food shops are actually going to close anyway regardless of the situation (because obviously we need to eat) and at the end of the day most of these people are young and healthy and have little to worry about.

It's truly pathetic.
 
I was thinking they myself but logistically how possible is it?
Very possible, surely? Think of all the delivery drivers with lorries just sitting around doing nothing right now. Staff in the supermarkets themselves could be moved around to pick up the items and it's less risk for them too.

Right now in Italy there are supposedly queues for hours outside supermarkets because only a few people can enter in at a time. That's very likely to happen here, too. Even if more deliveries didn't completely stop people going to the supermarkets it would at least ease the burden.
 
They did the same in Ireland last week, when school closures were announced. Turns out there’s only so much people can panic buy and the supplies keep on coming. You can expect shelves to look less and less bare as the days go by.
Same here. Couldn't buy any meat or fish end of last week, everything is in order now and there are almost no people in supermarkets because everyone has a ton of food at home. I have enough food at home to get through 3-4 weeks comfortably. If I restricted myself to aglio e olio with chorizo, garlic and pepper I could probably survive 2 weeks on my supplies and that's quite tasty to be honest.
 
Anyone heard anything new about potential UK lockdown?

I've read London could be imminent as a lot more cases there, but no idea on the rest of the country.

Daughter at Uni in Leeds and plans to come home "soon" (idiot, I told her to come home before now but doesn't listen to a word I say :rolleyes:). Will probably have to walk out of work at short notice at this rate and drive up to get her. Guessing if lockdown announced, will be short notice and can see major roads heaving as everyone goes to wherever.
 
You are still in beginning of the curve , which makes the question very pertinent.

Yeah but that doesn't mean everything should close right now, it should be progressive.

Very possible, surely? Think of all the delivery drivers with lorries just sitting around doing nothing right now. Staff in the supermarkets themselves could be moved around to pick up the items and it's less risk for them too.

Right now in Italy there are supposedly queues for hours outside supermarkets because only a few people can enter in at a time. That's very likely to happen here, too. Even if more deliveries didn't completely stop people going to the supermarkets it would at least ease the burden.

Yeah if you were using other available lorries/vans ect, just take a lot of planning to make sure everyone was covered.
 
Day off today from work, think I needed it. So to reflect on a stressful working week:

Moved to ED at the start of the week to triage suspected corona patients for one day. Only had about 13 patients that came in but admitted none into hospital. Wasn't very busy in ED overall even though they had a few self isolating staff, quite clear people were staying away from the hospital. Needless to say, no tests were done. I suspect at least 1 I saw had it but we sent that person home. My PPE was a joke, only normal apron, gloves and face mask.

Went back to work in my usual area, acute medical on Tues and Wed. Total nightmare. Very short staffed, loads are isolating or being moved to the newly established corona areas. Very unsafe for patients and staff. My area is being treated as a dumping ground for all medical patients to free up ICU for covid-19 patients. All their step down patients are coming to my ward and essentially I have spent two days looking after some very ill patients. Two more HCA's phone in to tell us will be self isolating.

We are constantly being pressured to discharge the medically fit however, over the last couple of days we have found care/residential homes have been refusing to accept their residents back due to fear of covid-19. So essentially we had 48 hours of bed blocking. Thats how long it took managment, bed bureau and discharge team to sort out this mess and some are still refusing. We are having to give food packages to elderly patients being discharged home due to the stockpiling as well. Ambulance transport are short on staff as well so moving people out of hospital is becoming more difficult.

Going back to the dicussion about social isolation, until you have to care and look after those affected by isolation, you will never understand the detrimental complications, mentally, socially and medically it has to a persons' health. It pains me everytime I see an elderly patient come in (all the time), likely demetnia, cardiac failure, acute kidney injury etc etc etc. Most of all, no quality of life, family don't care because they are too busy. It's almost seems cruel to keep these people alive. And do you know what? That's probably 80% of the population of my patients. Some families absolutly disgust me, treating their so called loved ones as a burden and expect the NHS to pick up the flack. They also have the gall to complain about their care whilst they have probably done nothing for them since kicking them into care homes and visiting them once a week.

We have limited visitors to one 'key' individual per patient, its all over the hospital coridoors and ward areas yet families of 3-5 are coming up during visiting hours (also restricted). I've had two instances where they have argued with me on this and I have to explain it's to decrease the overall traffic of the hospital for infection control yet they think it's overly excessive and that the whole family has the right to visit their loved ones.

So essentially, front of house (ED and ICU) is rather quiet, they even had nice deliveries from fast food chains and had time to enjoy a snack. Whilst the wards are desperatly trying to find staff and keep patients safe. It's getting silly now. The NHS managment and governement have got no handle on this situation what so ever. I have colleauges crying in the staff room and others just wanting to quit altogether. T

Sorry for the wall of text, this is how I de-stress from work and not go insane. Rant over.
 
I don't think UK has changed it strategy. Your chief scientific advisor ( who I must say is quite impressive gentleman) explained clearly what he thinks is the best way forward. It's just the backlash from people who see what other country is doing and Imperial College model ( who knows how accurate it is) forced the government to take some measure to arrest public anger.

The UK government modelling was based on one flawed paper about a totally different virus. They completely ignored all the learning and work done by the Chinese and WHO and decided they were cleverer than everyone else. Since that time they've been slowly having to U-turn on just about everything they've said. And what's more the media and other deferential types like you have only made excuses for them. They fecked up and they should take the blame for the thousands of extra deaths they have caused.
 
Day off today from work, think I needed it. So to reflect on a stressful working week:

Moved to ED at the start of the week to triage suspected corona patients for one day. Only had about 13 patients that came in but admitted none into hospital. Wasn't very busy in ED overall even though they had a few self isolating staff, quite clear people were staying away from the hospital. Needless to say, no tests were done. I suspect at least 1 I saw had it but we sent that person home. My PPE was a joke, only normal apron, gloves and face mask.

Went back to work in my usual area, acute medical on Tues and Wed. Total nightmare. Very short staffed, loads are isolating or being moved to the newly established corona areas. Very unsafe for patients and staff. My area is being treated as a dumping ground for all medical patients to free up ICU for covid-19 patients. All their step down patients are coming to my ward and essentially I have spent two days looking after some very ill patients. Two more HCA's phone in to tell us will be self isolating.

We are constantly being pressured to discharge the medically fit however, over the last couple of days we have found care/residential homes have been refusing to accept their residents back due to fear of covid-19. So essentially we had 48 hours of bed blocking. Thats how long it took managment, bed bureau and discharge team to sort out this mess and some are still refusing. We are having to give food packages to elderly patients being discharged home due to the stockpiling as well. Ambulance transport are short on staff as well so moving people out of hospital is becoming more difficult.

Going back to the dicussion about social isolation, until you have to care and look after those affected by isolation, you will never understand the detrimental complications, mentally, socially and medically it has to a persons' health. It pains me everytime I see an elderly patient come in (all the time), likely demetnia, cardiac failure, acute kidney injury etc etc etc. Most of all, no quality of life, family don't care because they are too busy. It's almost seems cruel to keep these people alive. And do you know what? That's probably 80% of the population of my patients. Some families absolutly disgust me, treating their so called loved ones as a burden and expect the NHS to pick up the flack. They also have the gall to complain about their care whilst they have probably done nothing for them since kicking them into care homes and visiting them once a week.

We have limited visitors to one 'key' individual per patient, its all over the hospital coridoors and ward areas yet families of 3-5 are coming up during visiting hours (also restricted). I've had two instances where they have argued with me on this and I have to explain it's to decrease the overall traffic of the hospital for infection control yet they think it's overly excessive and that the whole family has the right to visit their loved ones.

So essentially, front of house (ED and ICU) is rather quiet, they even had nice deliveries from fast food chains and had time to enjoy a snack. Whilst the wards are desperatly trying to find staff and keep patients safe. It's getting silly now. The NHS managment and governement have got no handle on this situation what so ever. I have colleauges crying in the staff room and others just wanting to quit altogether. T

Sorry for the wall of text, this is how I de-stress from work and not go insane. Rant over.

Shit, well bless you mate and hope the shitshow at the top changes course in time to prevent the worst of it. Football Manager is free on Steam apparently, maybe worth a download for your day off!
 
Day off today from work, think I needed it. So to reflect on a stressful working week:

Moved to ED at the start of the week to triage suspected corona patients for one day. Only had about 13 patients that came in but admitted none into hospital. Wasn't very busy in ED overall even though they had a few self isolating staff, quite clear people were staying away from the hospital. Needless to say, no tests were done. I suspect at least 1 I saw had it but we sent that person home. My PPE was a joke, only normal apron, gloves and face mask.

Went back to work in my usual area, acute medical on Tues and Wed. Total nightmare. Very short staffed, loads are isolating or being moved to the newly established corona areas. Very unsafe for patients and staff. My area is being treated as a dumping ground for all medical patients to free up ICU for covid-19 patients. All their step down patients are coming to my ward and essentially I have spent two days looking after some very ill patients. Two more HCA's phone in to tell us will be self isolating.

We are constantly being pressured to discharge the medically fit however, over the last couple of days we have found care/residential homes have been refusing to accept their residents back due to fear of covid-19. So essentially we had 48 hours of bed blocking. Thats how long it took managment, bed bureau and discharge team to sort out this mess and some are still refusing. We are having to give food packages to elderly patients being discharged home due to the stockpiling as well. Ambulance transport are short on staff as well so moving people out of hospital is becoming more difficult.

Going back to the dicussion about social isolation, until you have to care and look after those affected by isolation, you will never understand the detrimental complications, mentally, socially and medically it has to a persons' health. It pains me everytime I see an elderly patient come in (all the time), likely demetnia, cardiac failure, acute kidney injury etc etc etc. Most of all, no quality of life, family don't care because they are too busy. It's almost seems cruel to keep these people alive. And do you know what? That's probably 80% of the population of my patients. Some families absolutly disgust me, treating their so called loved ones as a burden and expect the NHS to pick up the flack. They also have the gall to complain about their care whilst they have probably done nothing for them since kicking them into care homes and visiting them once a week.

We have limited visitors to one 'key' individual per patient, its all over the hospital coridoors and ward areas yet families of 3-5 are coming up during visiting hours (also restricted). I've had two instances where they have argued with me on this and I have to explain it's to decrease the overall traffic of the hospital for infection control yet they think it's overly excessive and that the whole family has the right to visit their loved ones.

So essentially, front of house (ED and ICU) is rather quiet, they even had nice deliveries from fast food chains and had time to enjoy a snack. Whilst the wards are desperatly trying to find staff and keep patients safe. It's getting silly now. The NHS managment and governement have got no handle on this situation what so ever. I have colleauges crying in the staff room and others just wanting to quit altogether. T

Sorry for the wall of text, this is how I de-stress from work and not go insane. Rant over.

Feel free to rant whenever you want here.
The least we can do here is to listen to you
So keep up the good work. And best wishes.

Just as an addition:
From what I've heard, that was the same in Italy, they had a few very quiet days in the ED and new Corona Departments as preparations were made. But then the storm hit.
 
Day off today from work, think I needed it. So to reflect on a stressful working week:

Moved to ED at the start of the week to triage suspected corona patients for one day. Only had about 13 patients that came in but admitted none into hospital. Wasn't very busy in ED overall even though they had a few self isolating staff, quite clear people were staying away from the hospital. Needless to say, no tests were done. I suspect at least 1 I saw had it but we sent that person home. My PPE was a joke, only normal apron, gloves and face mask.

Went back to work in my usual area, acute medical on Tues and Wed. Total nightmare. Very short staffed, loads are isolating or being moved to the newly established corona areas. Very unsafe for patients and staff. My area is being treated as a dumping ground for all medical patients to free up ICU for covid-19 patients. All their step down patients are coming to my ward and essentially I have spent two days looking after some very ill patients. Two more HCA's phone in to tell us will be self isolating.

We are constantly being pressured to discharge the medically fit however, over the last couple of days we have found care/residential homes have been refusing to accept their residents back due to fear of covid-19. So essentially we had 48 hours of bed blocking. Thats how long it took managment, bed bureau and discharge team to sort out this mess and some are still refusing. We are having to give food packages to elderly patients being discharged home due to the stockpiling as well. Ambulance transport are short on staff as well so moving people out of hospital is becoming more difficult.

Going back to the dicussion about social isolation, until you have to care and look after those affected by isolation, you will never understand the detrimental complications, mentally, socially and medically it has to a persons' health. It pains me everytime I see an elderly patient come in (all the time), likely demetnia, cardiac failure, acute kidney injury etc etc etc. Most of all, no quality of life, family don't care because they are too busy. It's almost seems cruel to keep these people alive. And do you know what? That's probably 80% of the population of my patients. Some families absolutly disgust me, treating their so called loved ones as a burden and expect the NHS to pick up the flack. They also have the gall to complain about their care whilst they have probably done nothing for them since kicking them into care homes and visiting them once a week.

We have limited visitors to one 'key' individual per patient, its all over the hospital coridoors and ward areas yet families of 3-5 are coming up during visiting hours (also restricted). I've had two instances where they have argued with me on this and I have to explain it's to decrease the overall traffic of the hospital for infection control yet they think it's overly excessive and that the whole family has the right to visit their loved ones.

So essentially, front of house (ED and ICU) is rather quiet, they even had nice deliveries from fast food chains and had time to enjoy a snack. Whilst the wards are desperatly trying to find staff and keep patients safe. It's getting silly now. The NHS managment and governement have got no handle on this situation what so ever. I have colleauges crying in the staff room and others just wanting to quit altogether. T

Sorry for the wall of text, this is how I de-stress from work and not go insane. Rant over.

Is there anything we can do? Sounds abysmal. Really do admire you guys having worked in a hospital for 2 years on and off as IT Contractors.
 
The last paragraph, they are clearly asking that very question.

Asymptomatic infections were not uncommon. Determination of the transmission potential of these asymptomatic patients is important for guiding the development of measures to control the ongoing pandemic.

I have no idea but plenty of other people have asked the question, if you have kids you know how easily they catch and spread every infection under the sun, clearly they is something going on with COVID 19 and children.

As for the dying thing there have been children born with Covid 19 only to be clear of it hours later.

It's not specific to kids though. The younger you are the less severe your symptoms are.

There was a graphic recently that showed that a large proportion of people under 29 who tested positive where asymptomatic.

Given how quickly the virus is spreading I'd be erring on the side of the asymptomatic being carriers, certainly with regard to policy around attempting to contain this thing.
 
I would go so far as to get them to close doors completely and only do home deliveries. It would also generate more jobs for people if they got delivery drivers in who are likely currently out of work.
Would take time;
Hygiene rules - they’d have to use company vans?
Vetting the drivers etc?
 
Day off today from work, think I needed it. So to reflect on a stressful working week:

Moved to ED at the start of the week to triage suspected corona patients for one day. Only had about 13 patients that came in but admitted none into hospital. Wasn't very busy in ED overall even though they had a few self isolating staff, quite clear people were staying away from the hospital. Needless to say, no tests were done. I suspect at least 1 I saw had it but we sent that person home. My PPE was a joke, only normal apron, gloves and face mask.

Went back to work in my usual area, acute medical on Tues and Wed. Total nightmare. Very short staffed, loads are isolating or being moved to the newly established corona areas. Very unsafe for patients and staff. My area is being treated as a dumping ground for all medical patients to free up ICU for covid-19 patients. All their step down patients are coming to my ward and essentially I have spent two days looking after some very ill patients. Two more HCA's phone in to tell us will be self isolating.

We are constantly being pressured to discharge the medically fit however, over the last couple of days we have found care/residential homes have been refusing to accept their residents back due to fear of covid-19. So essentially we had 48 hours of bed blocking. Thats how long it took managment, bed bureau and discharge team to sort out this mess and some are still refusing. We are having to give food packages to elderly patients being discharged home due to the stockpiling as well. Ambulance transport are short on staff as well so moving people out of hospital is becoming more difficult.

Going back to the dicussion about social isolation, until you have to care and look after those affected by isolation, you will never understand the detrimental complications, mentally, socially and medically it has to a persons' health. It pains me everytime I see an elderly patient come in (all the time), likely demetnia, cardiac failure, acute kidney injury etc etc etc. Most of all, no quality of life, family don't care because they are too busy. It's almost seems cruel to keep these people alive. And do you know what? That's probably 80% of the population of my patients. Some families absolutly disgust me, treating their so called loved ones as a burden and expect the NHS to pick up the flack. They also have the gall to complain about their care whilst they have probably done nothing for them since kicking them into care homes and visiting them once a week.

We have limited visitors to one 'key' individual per patient, its all over the hospital coridoors and ward areas yet families of 3-5 are coming up during visiting hours (also restricted). I've had two instances where they have argued with me on this and I have to explain it's to decrease the overall traffic of the hospital for infection control yet they think it's overly excessive and that the whole family has the right to visit their loved ones.

So essentially, front of house (ED and ICU) is rather quiet, they even had nice deliveries from fast food chains and had time to enjoy a snack. Whilst the wards are desperatly trying to find staff and keep patients safe. It's getting silly now. The NHS managment and governement have got no handle on this situation what so ever. I have colleauges crying in the staff room and others just wanting to quit altogether. T

Sorry for the wall of text, this is how I de-stress from work and not go insane. Rant over.
Thanks for your dedication and work. No need to say sorry for getting it off your chest
 
Yeah my parents are nonchalant as feck about it, same sentiment as your Aunt. It's incredibly annoying. I guess they've both lived through a lot of hard times so who can begrudge them wanted to make the most of what they have now .. or something .. the dopes.

Obviously I don't know your parents but I'm in my mid 70's and understand where they might be coming from.

If you are generally healthy in your seventies, and no serious health conditions, you might consider yourself lucky; however most of my friends (including me, pacemaker fitted) have something wrong, heart, diabetes , breathing problems, stomach issues, etc. then you don't really want to admit to yourself and especially your family that you are living on borrowed time i.e. three-score years plus ten (over 70).

Most parents, even when they are old and doddering still want to try to protect their children (because that is what you still are to them) from stress and worry they have probably always tried to set an example, of 'head held high, back straight and bags of swank... its a vanity thing they don't want you to think they might have 'feet of clay'. Most of us in this age group now know that the bulk of our lives are behind us, it becomes difficult (even without COVID-19) to think much beyond a few months, certainly a few years ahead. Its not that we feel in-destructible its just that there is an inevitability looming. What might appear reckless behaviour or state of mind in the old is probably really just a desperate attempt to deal with something that in any case is closer than they would want.

Call it reckless, uncaring, stupid etc. it is unlikely to make much difference. Encourage your parents as much as you can to take basic precautions. If all else fails remind them of what the bible says " When I was young I put on my belt and sandals and went where I pleased, now I am old someone else puts on my belt and takes me where I don't want to go" That might change their mind and to listen to your advice... good luck with that!
 
Would take time;
Hygiene rules - they’d have to use company vans?
Vetting the drivers etc?
I think we may see a lot/most Uber and regular taxi drivers switch to this in the next couple of weeks - therefore most vetting done. On hygiene/vehicles more 24 hour deliveries will be a possibility. They'll need to recruit extra cleaners, shift workers as well.
 
Pretty much everyone is testing far more than the UK right now.
The thing ist every nation would like to test more. But in most health systems there is a capacity problem.
Either there are test kits missing and production cannot be ramped up, because ingredients are not available.
Or the laboratory capacity is not enough to analyze the incoming tests
 
While other countries are flying their citizens home for free.

This is extortion and the British embassy in Peru should hang their heads in shame for endorsing it.

That 1 way to London is 10 times the price as normal.

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Just curious what you expected to happen with airlines dramatically scaling back flights and the ramping up of calls warning against travel, culminating with the Foreign Secretary's announcement a few days ago?

My mum and dad are in Turkey on holiday and may well face a similar predicament soon, but I can't really sympathise with them. They chose to go out there even when this started to get real and thought my suggestion of considering whether to cut their holiday short was just a manifestation of me being worried about my wife living through this while 8 months pregnant! They just didn't seem to get it.

The Guardian picked up the story for Australian citizens yesterday: https://www.theguardian.com/austral...k-try-to-raise-300000-for-charter-flight-home
 
Same here. Couldn't buy any meat or fish end of last week, everything is in order now and there are almost no people in supermarkets because everyone has a ton of food at home. I have enough food at home to get through 3-4 weeks comfortably. If I restricted myself to aglio e olio with chorizo, garlic and pepper I could probably survive 2 weeks on my supplies and that's quite tasty to be honest.
As long as I am getting a little fruit and veg otherwise, I'm very happy living on aglio e olio and cacio e pepe for a while! I'm running out of colatura di alici though. Can't get that too easily in the UK.
 
While other countries are flying their citizens home for free.

This is extortion and the British embassy in Peru should hang their heads in shame for endorsing it.

That 1 way to London is 10 times the price as normal.

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Are you in Peru? You live there right? Are you trying to get back to UK or staying out?

My sister is one of those stuck out there. She is a doctor who was doing a research project in Puno, so it's just not a case of travellers not following advice as in that response above. They tried to change their scheduled flight (from May) earlier in the week and travel to Lima for it, but before they could get there the flights were cancelled and they are now stuck in lockdown back in Puno.
 
The UK government modelling was based on one flawed paper about a totally different virus. They completely ignored all the learning and work done by the Chinese and WHO and decided they were cleverer than everyone else. Since that time they've been slowly having to U-turn on just about everything they've said. And what's more the media and other deferential types like you have only made excuses for them. They fecked up and they should take the blame for the thousands of extra deaths they have caused.
Comments like this that are patently false are some of the most damaging bits of fake news you could see online right now.
 
Are they testing more widely? I assume our outbreak is much worse than Germany given the death rate?

Yes they are, 135k in last two weeks.

UK was ahead of Spain and France in testing and probably still are but things can change in a lockdown when deaths and cases get significant. Italy were similar to UK pre lockdown in tests but they had a far worse situation 2-3 weeks ago and since the lockdown when into testing overdrive which is understandable in what happened there.
 
Anyone heard anything new about potential UK lockdown?

I've read London could be imminent as a lot more cases there, but no idea on the rest of the country.

Daughter at Uni in Leeds and plans to come home "soon" (idiot, I told her to come home before now but doesn't listen to a word I say :rolleyes:). Will probably have to walk out of work at short notice at this rate and drive up to get her. Guessing if lockdown announced, will be short notice and can see major roads heaving as everyone goes to wherever.
Think if they lockdown London they will need to give some notice (will be plenty of people down there for work who need to arrange to get home)... Could see them announce today with a lockdown to start say Saturday?
 
Somewhere in Ireland, @Sweet Square was just awoken by this post.
Sadly I live on the same dumpster island as yourself, so have got just as much to lose as any other poor fecker living with this tories government. But just couple of things

1).
I don't want the Tories to fail because it will mean thousands of deaths but that doesn't mean we ignore what is quite clearly a government with no fecking long term plan.



2)A Labour government respond would have clearly been better





Again just look at what the likes of Denmark, Norway and even France(Macron is a conservative btw)

3). The Boris is lying about NHS staff and the protection they are being offered



and the best you lot can come up with is lolz Corbyn is rubbish. It's very odd, mate.
 
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Went shopping this morning in third day of "lockdown" - no queues outside supermarkets, only individuals (not couples- wife waited in car) allowed in but very quiet, not many customers , shops well stocked, even more than usual except for zero toilet paper. No queues at checkouts , bit eerie. Police quite visible which is unusual for our area , much less traffic.

Keep singing "Ghost Town" by the Specials.
 
Think if they lockdown London they will need to give some notice (will be plenty of people down there for work who need to arrange to get home)... Could see them announce today with a lockdown to start say Saturday?

They did that with Paris and tons of people immediately left for second homes in rural areas so they'd be somewhere more comfortable (and spread the virus much more widely).