SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Meanwhile China, having had a policy of zero covid and mass lockdowns only a month ago have moved directly to advice that suggests they'd like everyone (or at any rate, at least 60% of the population) to get infected in the next few weeks.

They've more or less stopped testing for covid unless the test is needed for a hospital clinical decision. They've advised people who feel ill with COVID symptoms but who can go to work, to go to work.

Now they've explained that COVID deaths are to be defined as only those deaths caused primarily by COVID pneumonia (which is less frequent with Omicron than with previous variants). That basically rules out deaths at home, and deaths among people with pre-existing conditions - which in practice, given the scope of the definitions, will be anyone over 70 and all the most vulnerable under that age.

It's not surprising then that China is still reporting daily covid deaths in single figures.

Hopefully their belated attempts to vaccinate their over 80s will have come in time to save some lives - but we may never know for sure. Incidentally, their under 60s who are at the lowest risk from COVID have high vaccination rates, and have had for a while.
https://www.reuters.com/world/china...ove-5000-per-day-uk-research-firm-2022-12-22/

I think there’s something very sinister about the way the Chinese Government just opened everything and told everyone “ok just get on”, it’s almost like they are punishing the people who protested covid zero, as we’ve seen reopening has to be done in stages. Surely the Chinese Government knew this.
 
For flu, maybe. Which seems to be making people a hell of a lot sicker than covid.

Since 2009 I haven't had a severe flu presumably due to getting vaccinated every year but Covid knocked the crap out of me despite having 4 shots - nothing like seriously enough to be hospitalised with no lung involvement - just bad flu like symptoms with the utter exhaustion lasting for about 3 weeks. My wife who kindly shared it with me was similar if not quite as bad. My much younger neighbour had it recently as well and only found out that he had it by testing positive - he had it before and was only testing because his wife and baby had it for the first time. So it is obviously highly variable depending on things like age, vaccination, previous infection etc etc. Which isn't at all surprising.

We seem to have about 40/50 people hospitalised at any one time with daily infections peaking at about 25k.
 
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Covid or no-covid, is everyone else finding everyone they know absolutely fecking decimated by assorted lurgies this winter? Or is it mainly a Dublin thing?

It’s actually quite funny. I don’t think I know a single person who hasn’t been struck down at least once over the last month. Literally half of my daughter’s class were all out at once. Her school lost so many teachers they had to get parents to help as there’s not a single substitute teacher available in the whole county.

I was supposed to go to three pre-Christmas drinks over the last week. All cancelled when the host got sick (kind of pleased about this)

I wonder if in previous years we were more likely to crack on and get on with things despite being sick? Or is there a whole load more illness around this winter than ever before? Either way, it’s fecking nuts.

2 colleagues have 2 young kids each, and all of the kids have got ill multiple times since September. Latest was flu.
 
Me and my son (aged 4) tested positive for covid today - I'm pretty much fine but he's in bed with a high temperature, lethargic etc.... Fingers crossed it all passes for him soon. We've also a newborn in the house but he seems fine.

Now, my wife was planning to have her sister and a friend round for dinner this evening and wait for this- I'm getting hassle because this has ruined their plans and that I basically shouldn't have bothered testing.... Her sister is also a healthcare worker and it's most likely in their house too but they aren't testing because they don't want it to disrupt any Christmas plans....

Great start to the holidays round here
 
Now, my wife was planning to have her sister and a friend round for dinner this evening and wait for this- I'm getting hassle because this has ruined their plans and that I basically shouldn't have bothered testing.... Her sister is also a healthcare worker and it's most likely in their house too but they aren't testing because they don't want it to disrupt any Christmas plans....

You were 100% in the right IMO mate and fair play to you for not burying your head in the sand.

Hope you and the young fella feel better soon.
 
Had that cold/flu illness with a mad cough for a few days...keep getting random coughing fits that are pretty violent, but thankfully, and slowly, I'm getting better.

Since
 
Me and my son (aged 4) tested positive for covid today - I'm pretty much fine but he's in bed with a high temperature, lethargic etc.... Fingers crossed it all passes for him soon. We've also a newborn in the house but he seems fine.

Now, my wife was planning to have her sister and a friend round for dinner this evening and wait for this- I'm getting hassle because this has ruined their plans and that I basically shouldn't have bothered testing.... Her sister is also a healthcare worker and it's most likely in their house too but they aren't testing because they don't want it to disrupt any Christmas plans....

Great start to the holidays round here
You’ve done the right thing
 
Italy has become the first country in Europe to make it obligatory for people arriving from China to be tested for Covid-19 following Beijing moving to reopen its borders after lifting some of its toughest anti-Covid restrictions.

Italy has already been monitoring swab tests at Rome’s Fiumicino airport and Milan’s Malpensa airport, where on Monday one in two passengers arriving on flights from China who undertook non-mandatory tests were found to be positive for coronavirus.

The WHO director general, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, has called on China to share data and conduct relevant studies to help the world understand which Covid variants are circulating. Dwyer said data was crucial because in countries where Covid-19 is out of control, the sheer number of people infected makes it more likely that there will be a rare event that leads to changes in the virus, potentially creating a new variant of concern.

Prolonged lockdowns in China also mean a significant proportion of the population have not been infected with newer variants, and the Sinovac and Sinopharm vaccines China has relied on appear less effective than mRNA vaccines used elsewhere.

“That is the environment where you’d expect new variants to appear,” Dwyer said. “So therefore monitoring people returning from China who are sick is going to be important. We don’t know … whether those variants [in China] are any different to what we’ve seen elsewhere.”

China’s decision to resume issuing passports for the first time in almost three years could allow large numbers of Chinese tourists to travel abroad for next month’s lunar new year holiday. Travel services companies Trip.com and Qunar said international ticket bookings and searches for visa information on their websites rose five to eight times after Tuesday’s announcement, with top destinations including Japan, Thailand, South Korea, the United States, Britain and Australia.

What could possibly go wrong?
 
Does it even matter when Europe is already saturated with the virus?

I don’t think so.

Although I presume the concerns are because all the variants running amok in Europe share the same omicron ancestry, so none of them are particularly nasty. We haven’t a fecking clue which variant is the main driver in China and if it’s from a different, earlier lineage it could spin off variants which are a lot more dangerous.

My uneducated guess is that this is very unlikely but you can see why everyone is a bit nervous
 
Lots of groups reporting deaths are likely in the 1000s per day. Could this be a new variant ?
 
Which groups?
A British group modelled 5000 daily estimate (I know modelling has its flaws), Bloomberg reports around 2000 daily (not sure what source they use).

My opinion is that deaths are definitely higher than the Chinese Gov are reporting, apparently they are not counting people who died and had pre existing conditions. So someone with diabetes who gets covid and dies a few days or weeks later the cause of death gets marked as “diabetes”.

But as we know the overwhelming majority of covid deaths are those with pre existing conditions.
 
Tested positive on the Thursday before Christmas, and basically missed everything becasue of it.

Interestingly (for me at least), that I hadn't been ill since early in the February before it all kicked off in 2020, and have had virtually exactly the same symptoms as I did then.
 
I don’t think so.

Although I presume the concerns are because all the variants running amok in Europe share the same omicron ancestry, so none of them are particularly nasty. We haven’t a fecking clue which variant is the main driver in China and if it’s from a different, earlier lineage it could spin off variants which are a lot more dangerous.

My uneducated guess is that this is very unlikely but you can see why everyone is a bit nervous

This article says China's covid surge is due to a Omicron sub-varient.

https://www.livemint.com/science/he...toms-to-watch-out-for/amp-11672046682327.html
 
I don’t think so.

Although I presume the concerns are because all the variants running amok in Europe share the same omicron ancestry, so none of them are particularly nasty. We haven’t a fecking clue which variant is the main driver in China and if it’s from a different, earlier lineage it could spin off variants which are a lot more dangerous.

My uneducated guess is that this is very unlikely but you can see why everyone is a bit nervous
My boss, from India was telling me this morning that India are probably gonna go harsh on Chinese tourists too but they it was because it’s said that there is a new variant and also India haven’t done well with boosters
 
No that’s right, then when you surge and it’s too late, introduce measures. Sensible approach
Then blame us and cycle repeat. But really with reports that 50% tested on a flight to Italy were positive and no idea what the variant is in China surely common sense is to be cautious.
 
These measures aren’t about containing this surge though. Which has nothing to do with (recent) Chinese tourists.
Surely as we don’t really know where China is at in terms of variants it makes common sense to be cautious? As the poster below says, 50% tested bound on flight for Italy were positive.
 
How can these things be so confusing for you guys still? No, there's no point in mandatory testing for travellers from China. No, there's no reason to think they have anything else than omicron going there. And yes, deaths in China will be in thousands per day, if not 5 figs.

Move on already
 
Surely as we don’t really know where China is at in terms of variants it makes common sense to be cautious? As the poster below says, 50% tested bound on flight for Italy were positive.

Yeah, I’ve no problem with these measures. With China apparently not even screening for new variants it seems a sensible approach. Plus there’s no real downside.

I’m just saying the decision isn’t a late reaction to the ongoing local surge. It’s more about prevention of a future surge due to a new, imported variant.
 
My brother and his family flew from Atlanta to Dublin for a Christmas catch-up, then 2 days in Derry before a few days in Belfast meeting old friends. He came back to Dublin as sick as a dog, all the family. Tested positive. My younger brother who was putting them up in Dublin also got infected.
reckons he got infected by a pair of non vaxxing friends who were barking like dogs with a cough when they came for dinner.
had to suffer long flight back & many on the plane were coughing apparently.
both brothers have ICDs implanted. Both complaining of breathing issues when they have to bend down.

still a virus that needs to be treated with some common sense imo. I think my brother was too lax in meeting so many old friends this time of year, it was almost inevitable
 
My brother and his family flew from Atlanta to Dublin for a Christmas catch-up, then 2 days in Derry before a few days in Belfast meeting old friends. He came back to Dublin as sick as a dog, all the family. Tested positive. My younger brother who was putting them up in Dublin also got infected.
reckons he got infected by a pair of non vaxxing friends who were barking like dogs with a cough when they came for dinner.
had to suffer long flight back & many on the plane were coughing apparently.
both brothers have ICDs implanted. Both complaining of breathing issues when they have to bend down.

still a virus that needs to be treated with some common sense imo. I think my brother was too lax in meeting so many old friends this time of year, it was almost inevitable

Sorry to hear that geebs. I’m sure they’ll be fine though. It really isn’t that bad a dose these days. Catching up with old friends and family is important. Especially as you start to get on a bit. There’s only so many more opportunities left. I wouldn’t be giving them a hard time about it.
 
Sorry to hear that geebs. I’m sure they’ll be fine though. It really isn’t that bad a dose these days. Catching up with old friends and family is important. Especially as you start to get on a bit. There’s only so many more opportunities left. I wouldn’t be giving them a hard time about it.
Oh I’m not giving them a hard time, they’ve been through hard enough times this year. My brother is pissed that the pair who were coughing didn’t at least pre-warn him though before meeting
 
Oh I’m not giving them a hard time, they’ve been through hard enough times this year. My brother is pissed that the pair who were coughing didn’t at least pre-warn him though before meeting

Ah, ok. Yeah, that was a dick move from them. We are very reliant on other people being considerate with all the bugs flying round this winter. Even if there’s no long term damage done it’s fecking inconvenient being sick for a week or two.
 
China has recently (the last few days really) started uploading COVID sequences again after a long period when they went silent. The sequences aren't based on mass testing anymore (because there isn't any) but on limited hospital/research lab testing etc.

It's thought that the Chinese authorities expect around 60% of the population to have been infected by the end of February. It's going to lead to a massive number of deaths, most of which will be registered as "not COVID" due to the way they've drawn their definitions.

For the rest of the world, where the virus has already raced through and where most people have had covid and/or been vaccinated it won't change much unless a new (deadlier) variant does emerge from the sheer number of infections.

Will testing travelers give us that information? Basically no - we'd have to wait a few weeks to see if it hospitalises/kills any of them - and the chances are that the travellers won't be in a high risk group, and will be people who are up to date on jabs etc.

It might make us feel safer, as if we're doing something, but unless it's combined with a week or so of post-arrival quarantine of all travellers from China, it won't do much. It will give us new sequencing data, but in itself that's mostly meaningless - we aren't that good at judging the severity of the disease from the "look" of the mutation.

And if that all sounds rather fatalistic - it is! A complete ban (or enforced quarantine) on travellers could slow the spread of a new variant. Testing - particularly in the form of a pre-flight test - will do next to nothing on spread. Post arrival testing and proper support/advice for self quarantine (and a week's supply of LFTs for everyone on the flights) might do a little more.
 
Will testing travelers give us that information? Basically no - we'd have to wait a few weeks to see if it hospitalises/kills any of them - and the chances are that the travellers won't be in a high risk group, and will be people who are up to date on jabs etc.
“Italy didn’t find any concerning mutations in recent arrivals from China who had tested positive for the virus” (Bloomberg 1 hour ago )

Good news. And a sign that working early can pay off.
 
I've got it again. Only tested yesterday out of curiosity as it's quite different to the last time, I was convinced it was just a heavy head cold. All snotty, sneezing and coughing a bit but nothing on my chest.

Oh well bang goes New Year's Eve. At least I think it's on the way out now.
 
I've got it again. Only tested yesterday out of curiosity as it's quite different to the last time, I was convinced it was just a heavy head cold. All snotty, sneezing and coughing a bit but nothing on my chest.

Oh well bang goes New Year's Eve. At least I think it's on the way out now.
Been strange. I had two viral incidents in the past 3 months (first time since 2020) . Both were 24/48 hour issues that went away, first was minor and second took me out badly for 24 hours.

Now for the past 2-3 days I feel fine, but feel like I have something. It’s hard to explain. A slight sore throat, runny nose, but mostly when I wake up I wake up with the same sweaty feeling and “Ill smell” that I do when I have a flu/virus
 
Been strange. I had two viral incidents in the past 3 months (first time in over 2 years) . Both were 24/48 hour issues that went away, first was minor and second took me out badly for 24 hours.

Now for the past 2-3 days I feel fine, but feel like I have something. It’s hard to explain. A slight sore throat, runny nose, but mostly when I wake up I wake up with the same sweaty feeling and “Ill smell” that I do when I have a flu/virus
Ah yes I forgot the sore throat - that's been gone a couple of days now.
 
U.K. set to announce negative covid test for arrivals from China.

We all probably guessed this was going to happen. But the no, the yes. Just looks indecisive. Was it to do with the border force strikes?
 
U.K. set to announce negative covid test for arrivals from China.

We all probably guessed this was going to happen. But the no, the yes. Just looks indecisive. Was it to do with the border force strikes?

I've read the news so understand the first sentence at least
 
I've read the news so understand the first sentence at least
Just yesterday the British government said they had no plans to require negative covid tests for arrivals from China. Obviously, most people knew it would change. But to change within a day, although the right call, just makes the government look fickle.

I just wondered if it was anything to do with the border strikes? Because maybe I’m being stupid and forgive me if I am but implementing that and denying people entry is easier when you have a border force.