SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Wibble]

I like Ridley and what he writes is both interesting and makes sense. However, I think it is far from proven that airborne viruses universally get milder and others don't (so does he when you read the final paragraph). It isn't that I think he is wrong about Delta getting a boost from being spread in packed hospitals, whereas milder illness remain in home isolation. That is a selection factor for sure. However, random mutations are the source of new variants after which selection determines if they become the dominant variant (of which behaviour like hospital/no hospital is a part). Overall fitness will simply favour the variant that spreads/reproduces the best. Low lethality will favour a virus but if it kills slow enough the increased transmissibility might still give a greater fitness benefit. In other words a new variant could replace Omicron even if it was a bit more virulent and much more infectious, as there would be an overall selection pressure favouring the new variant. Of course a less virulent and more infectious variant could outcompete both but selection can only act of what there is to act upon.

I guess the next couple of years may tell us if the selection pressures of hospitalising the most sick (which of course we had to do) has slowed an inevitable decline in covid virulence. I'm not convinced but I hope I'm wrong.

Yet here surely there is a worrying lesson about the past two years. In the weird world of lockdown, severe strains of Covid were favoured by selection. If you tested positive but felt fine you were told to stay at home. If you fell badly sick you went to hospital, where you gave your illness to healthcare workers and other patients. So mutants that were more infectious, such as alpha and delta, paid no penalty for being just as virulent, maybe more so. The natural evolution of Covid into just another mild cold was therefore possibly delayed by at least a year.

Of course, the idea that only respiratory viruses evolve to become milder is just a theory and needs to be challenged. The continuing virulence of direct-contact diseases such as measles and smallpox needs explaining, for example. But it is unforgivable for official advisers at Nervtag to be ignorant of the theory. Send for some Darwinians, Boris!

 

[Massive Spanner]

RIP

fecking school outside the estate, have to walk past it every day at lunch. SHUT THEM DOWN!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I like Ridley and what he writes is both interesting and makes sense. However, I think it is far from proven that airborne viruses universally get milder and others don't (so does he when you read the final paragraph). It isn't that I think he is wrong about Delta getting a boost from being spread in packed hospitals, whereas milder illness remain in home isolation. That is a selection factor for sure. However, random mutations are the source of new variants after which selection determines if they become the dominant variant (of which behaviour like hospital/no hospital is a part). Overall fitness will simply favour the variant that spreads/reproduces the best. Low lethality will favour a virus but if it kills slow enough the increased transmissibility might still give a greater fitness benefit. In other words a new variant could replace Omicron even if it was a bit more virulent and much more infectious, as there would be an overall selection pressure favouring the new variant. Of course a less virulent and more infectious variant could outcompete both but selection can only act of what there is to act upon.

I guess the next couple of years may tell us if the selection pressures of hospitalising the most sick (which of course we had to do) has slowed an inevitable decline in covid virulence. I'm not convinced but I hope I'm wrong.

That Ridley quote is pretty stupid. Blaming “the weird world of lockdown” for very sick people going to hospital and not very sick people staying at home. That has feck all to do with lockdowns and everything to do with basic common sense. What’s he suggesting as an alternative? Send all the sniffles into hospital and manage severe respiratory failure at home? Great idea.

 

[Wibble]

That Ridley quote is pretty stupid. Blaming “the weird world of lockdown” for very sick people going to hospital and not very sick people staying at home. That has feck all to do with lockdowns and everything to do with basic common sense. What’s he suggesting as an alternative? Send all the sniffles into hospital and manage severe respiratory failure at home? Great idea.

He loves him a controversial position or two but then comes back to the science eventually. He also doesn't mind speculating beyond the data to sell lots of books from time to time either.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He loves him a controversial position or two but then comes back to the science eventually. He also doesn't mind speculating beyond the data to sell lots of books from time to time either.

I’ve read the whole thing. It’s all more or less as dumb as the bit you quoted. He seems to categorise measles as a “direct contact” virus that is somehow categorically different to SARS-CoV-2. This is bollox. They’re both spread the same way.

Well, I say “dumb” but I don’t think he’s stupid. His agenda is clear as day though. Even if you didn’t know where the piece was published.

 

[Brophs]

With the removal of the mask mandate in Ireland, very odd to go into shops and see maybe half of the people without masks. It’ll go back to being completely normal soon enough, I’m sure, but it’s going to really impact on my ability to be an antisocial cnut.

 

[saivet]

Trying to find a chart I saw with regards to how long you expect someone to be infectious for as I'm currently the only one in my house who is negative.

My mum tested positive 7 days ago and still tested positive today. My brother and dad tested positive on Saturday, so are likely still positive and infectious now. At what point are they likely to be okay so I can stop wearing a mask inside the house and avoid them?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

With the removal of the mask mandate in Ireland, very odd to go into shops and see maybe half of the people without masks. It’ll go back to being completely normal soon enough, I’m sure, but it’s going to really impact on my ability to be an antisocial cnut.

It’s odd, isn’t it? Feels like you’re being silently judged by whoever makes the opposite decision to you about wearing a mask. I’m masking up in shops to avoid that.

 

[Brwned]

It’s odd, isn’t it? Feels like you’re being silently judged by whoever makes the opposite decision to you about wearing a mask. I’m masking up in shops to avoid that.

I thought it’d be like that but either I’ve just ignored it or it was just my imagination! I just walk around feeling much freer with it off, no judgment, for the last month or so it felt pretty foolish so I don’t judge anyone for it now, but I just kind of think…you’re going to really enjoy not having to do that soon. I know some people will still feel more vulnerable after that point, but I’m sure most will just think…it’s nice seeing people’s faces again. The world feels friendlier.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I thought it’d be like that but either I’ve just ignored it or it was just my imagination! I just walk around feeling much freer with it off, no judgment, for the last month or so it felt pretty foolish so I don’t judge anyone for it now, but I just kind of think…you’re going to really enjoy not having to do that soon. I know some people will still feel more vulnerable after that point, but I’m sure most will just think…it’s nice seeing people’s faces again. The world feels friendlier.

Yeah, I’m being completely irrational. I think it’s just because it’s so new. I’m sure fewer and fewer people will wear masks from now on. My climbing gym removed the mask requirements about a month ago and for the first couple of weeks almost everyone kept them on. Now almost nobody does. And yeah, it’s so much nicer being able to see faces. It instantly feels like a friendlier place.

 

[djembatheking]

Trying to find a chart I saw with regards to how long you expect someone to be infectious for as I'm currently the only one in my house who is negative.

My mum tested positive 7 days ago and still tested positive today. My brother and dad tested positive on Saturday, so are likely still positive and infectious now. At what point are they likely to be okay so I can stop wearing a mask inside the house and avoid them?

My wife tested positive 8 days ago and is still positive. I am still testing negative , I look after her mum and dad and he has got alzheimers and sleep apnea as well as being 82 years old so I have been wearing a mask and only sitting outside when I am at their house . Would be nice to know how long she is likely to be testing positive and how likely she is to pass it on. She is still coughing and feeling rough too. It wouldn`t concern me too much except for the issue with her mum and dad as he can be quite hard work for my mother in law .

 

[Brophs]

It’s odd, isn’t it? Feels like you’re being silently judged by whoever makes the opposite decision to you about wearing a mask. I’m masking up in shops to avoid that.

Tbh, for us it’s less about the judgement side of things and more that we have kids in crèche. We’ve probably got a fair chance of passing it on if one of them does pick it up so I guess we’ll keep wearing it in the short term anyway. Plus you can mouth the word “cnut” if someone does something annoying in public.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Trying to find a chart I saw with regards to how long you expect someone to be infectious for as I'm currently the only one in my house who is negative.

My mum tested positive 7 days ago and still tested positive today. My brother and dad tested positive on Saturday, so are likely still positive and infectious now. At what point are they likely to be okay so I can stop wearing a mask inside the house and avoid them?

My wife tested positive 8 days ago and is still positive. I am still testing negative , I look after her mum and dad and he has got alzheimers and sleep apnea as well as being 82 years old so I have been wearing a mask and only sitting outside when I am at their house . Would be nice to know how long she is likely to be testing positive and how likely she is to pass it on. She is still coughing and feeling rough too. It wouldn`t concern me too much except for the issue with her mum and dad as he can be quite hard work for my mother in law .

There is no one size fits all answer here. If someone is still coughing and feeling rough 8 days after testing positive there’s a good chance they’re still contagious. Somebody else who is feeling absolutely fine just 4 days after their first positive test is a lot less likely to be a risk.

If you need to be really careful all you can do is keep doing daily antigen tests and wait for that first negative.

 

[golden_blunder]

I’m genuinely pleasantly surprised by how many are still using masks around here

 

[berbatrick]

Yes it's pretty disastrous compared to the countries you have mentioned, but given the resistance to vaccines among the local uneducated elderly, 75-85% has already been quite remarkable. Different regions have different sociopolitical backgrounds, and you can't always expect leading European countries can be easily matched elsewhere. What worries me is that most of the elderly here receive a useless vaccine, meaning the actual vaccination rate drops to 25-35%. To be honest I don't think much thing can be done right now, just sit tight and wait for the peak to approach.

South America and Central Asia have heavily used the same vaccine. Their omicron waves don't seem to be any different from the west's.

 

[djembatheking]

There is no one size fits all answer here. If someone is still coughing and feeling rough 8 days after testing positive there’s a good chance they’re still contagious. Somebody else who is feeling absolutely fine just 4 days after their first positive test is a lot less likely to be a risk.

If you need to be really careful all you can do is keep doing daily antigen tests and wait for that first negative.

Thanks Pogue, thats pretty much what I thought , I`ve been airing on the cautious side just cos of the age of her mum and dad but don`t want to stay away and isolate them either. Thankfully we`ve got glorious sunshine so we have been sat in their garden looking out at the Irish sea.

 

[saivet]

There is no one size fits all answer here. If someone is still coughing and feeling rough 8 days after testing positive there’s a good chance they’re still contagious. Somebody else who is feeling absolutely fine just 4 days after their first positive test is a lot less likely to be a risk.

If you need to be really careful all you can do is keep doing daily antigen tests and wait for that first negative.

Cheers mate, they are all still coughing from time to time but generally feeling fine. Keep away and do daily LFTs to continue.

 

[balaks]

My wife tested positive last week and today is her day 10 of isolating (still need to do this in NI) - it's also the first day her lateral flow has come up negative. Unfortunately I had a bit of a scratchy throat last night and it's got slightly worse today, took a lateral flow this morning and had a very, very faint line on it. Went and got a PCR done this afternoon so will probably know tomorrow that I've got it. Can hardly be anything else as I haven't really left the house in the past week. Gutted as I was due to meet friends for a day in the pub on Saturday and hadn't been out socially in months.

 

[11101]

Yes it's pretty disastrous compared to the countries you have mentioned, but given the resistance to vaccines among the local uneducated elderly, 75-85% has already been quite remarkable. Different regions have different sociopolitical backgrounds, and you can't always expect leading European countries can be easily matched elsewhere. What worries me is that most of the elderly here receive a useless vaccine, meaning the actual vaccination rate drops to 25-35%. To be honest I don't think much thing can be done right now, just sit tight and wait for the peak to approach.

It really surprises me HK has had a problem with vaccination because when I lived there the problem was the other way around, an over prescription of medicines.

 

[decorativeed]

My wife went to the cinema a couple of weeks ago and sat in the middle of two friends. A day later one of them tested positive. A day after that the other one did. As a result, we were extra cautious and she did more regular tests, but none of them came back positive. She must have a great immune response, because we were sure it'd finally get one of us.

Incidentally, one of those friends, despite still testing positive, was asked to return to work as they were short staffed. Honestly can't believe the idiocy of management at some places.

 

[jojojo]

Interesting comparison of New Zealand and Hong Kong as both try to manage omicron outbreaks having used zero covid strategies for the past couple of years. Basically it all comes down to vaccine uptake, in particular in the older groups.

 

[Skills]

I finally got covid after 2 years. Knocked me out on Sunday night - felt lightheaded as soon as i got on my feet. Since then, i've just had a migraine and backpain and now a bit of a stuffy nose.

I thought Pfizer and co were promising targeted boosters for the new variant within a 100 days? That seems to have all gone quiet now.

 

[Stack]

Interesting comparison of New Zealand and Hong Kong as both try to manage omicron outbreaks having used zero covid strategies for the past couple of years. Basically it all comes down to vaccine uptake, in particular in the older groups.

We are expecting our deaths here in NZ to rise, we are still two weeks away from the predicted infections per day rate. Our booster uptake has been good but not great which I think is a bit of a worry. Big problems right now with work and public services being impacted by people off work sick. Also our hospitality industry is having its worst time since the pandemic began with people not going out as much during this surge.
However fingers crossed our high vaccine uptake can keep the deaths as low as possible. We are heading into winter in a couple of months and so many are wondering if we will have another surge when winter arrives.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I finally got covid after 2 years. Knocked me out on Sunday night - felt lightheaded as soon as i got on my feet. Since then, i've just had a migraine and backpain and now a bit of a stuffy nose.

I thought Pfizer and co were promising targeted boosters for the new variant within a 100 days? That seems to have all gone quiet now.

Some data came out from animal studies showing no benefit from omicron specific vaccine over previous versions. That might have killed it.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I finally got covid after 2 years. Knocked me out on Sunday night - felt lightheaded as soon as i got on my feet. Since then, i've just had a migraine and backpain and now a bit of a stuffy nose.

I thought Pfizer and co were promising targeted boosters for the new variant within a 100 days? That seems to have all gone quiet now.

I've had a back pain too. Had absolutely no idea it was a pretty common symptom.

It didn't hit me too hard in the end though, the sore throat was the worst of it.

 

[hmchan]

It really surprises me HK has had a problem with vaccination because when I lived there the problem was the other way around, an over prescription of medicines.

I have explained the situation a year ago. What happening now is a predictable outcome.

The political sitiation here has been very tense over the past two years, and Pfizer and CoronaVac somehow represent the US and China respectively.

When Pfizer was approved in the west, the pro-China campaign (the government included) kept defaming its safety and exaggerating its side effects (e.g. the Norway incident). This was because CoronaVac lacked data and showed poor efficacy, and this was their way to lure people to take the CoronaVac.

Unfortunately, this made people become overly worried about the adverse effects and things didn't go as they planned. Instead of taking the CoronaVac, people decide not to take any vaccine. As a healthcare professional I really hate to see this, but there's nothing I can do and this is the reality.

 

[hmchan]

We are expecting our deaths here in NZ to rise, we are still two weeks away from the predicted infections per day rate. Our booster uptake has been good but not great which I think is a bit of a worry. Big problems right now with work and public services being impacted by people off work sick. Also our hospitality industry is having its worst time since the pandemic began with people not going out as much during this surge.
However fingers crossed our high vaccine uptake can keep the deaths as low as possible. We are heading into winter in a couple of months and so many are wondering if we will have another surge when winter arrives.

The living condition in NZ and HK, especially that for elderly, is barely comparable.

 

[Bobski]

Had it myself for a few days, started with a bit of a headache then a high temperature and a bit of vomiting. Can't work out where I got it from as I have been working from home for the last month and have barely been out other than essentials. There have many other situations where it wouldn't have surprised me, at work in small office it felt inevitable, but no I get it when I was almost already in isolation due to a project.

Doing a great job in kick starting my diet, no appetite at all, bowl of soup is tough to finish, have lost 5 KG in a week.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Doing a great job in kick starting my diet, no appetite at all, bowl of soup is tough to finish, have lost 5 KG in a week.

Dude, that’s mad…

 

[mitChley]

Dude, that’s mad…

90% of that will be water weight if he's ill.

 

[Bobski]

90% of that will be water weight if he's ill.

Yes, it will be straight back on as soon I get past this. First couple days I think I ate half a round of toast and a couple of segment of a mandarin orange combined, could barely look at food, and with the vomiting even water was coming straight back up.

Feeling much better over the last 24 hours, but even now I barely have an appetite, was trying to convince myself to get a Pizza delivered but I would just look at it rather than eat the damn thing.

 

[miked99]

I finally got covid after 2 years. Knocked me out on Sunday night - felt lightheaded as soon as i got on my feet. Since then, i've just had a migraine and backpain and now a bit of a stuffy nose.

I thought Pfizer and co were promising targeted boosters for the new variant within a 100 days? That seems to have all gone quiet now.

Hope you soon feel better matey.

Can I ask you about the back pain? I started feeling really ill last night in bed, waves of nausea, like acid reflux kinda thing, a headache and a dull ache in my stomach. This morning the pain in my stomach had gone and been replaced by this absolutely awful pain in my back and chest. Like I've been kicked in both places. Agony, pretty much and there's no way to find a comfortable position. I've barely got the energy to move, ache from head and foot and anytime the pain subsides my body tries to fall asleep. No desire to eat or drink anything. Thought this would surely be the time I finally tested positive, but nope. Does this sound like the sort of pain you were experiencing? Because I've never had chest pain like this before and I don't know if I should be ringing 111.

 

[Balljy]

Hope you soon feel better matey.

Can I ask you about the back pain? I started feeling really ill last night in bed, waves of nausea, like acid reflux kinda thing, a headache and a dull ache in my stomach. This morning the pain in my stomach had gone and been replaced by this absolutely awful pain in my back and chest. Like I've been kicked in both places. Agony, pretty much and there's no way to find a comfortable position. I've barely got the energy to move, ache from head and foot and anytime the pain subsides my body tries to fall asleep. No desire to eat or drink anything. Thought this would surely be the time I finally tested positive, but nope. Does this sound like the sort of pain you were experiencing? Because I've never had chest pain like this before and I don't know if I should be ringing 111.

If you're debating about calling 111 and haven't felt pain like it, you should be calling it in my opinion whether it might be covid or not. That's what they're for and they can give you professional advice on whether someone needs to take a look.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Hope you soon feel better matey.

Can I ask you about the back pain? I started feeling really ill last night in bed, waves of nausea, like acid reflux kinda thing, a headache and a dull ache in my stomach. This morning the pain in my stomach had gone and been replaced by this absolutely awful pain in my back and chest. Like I've been kicked in both places. Agony, pretty much and there's no way to find a comfortable position. I've barely got the energy to move, ache from head and foot and anytime the pain subsides my body tries to fall asleep. No desire to eat or drink anything. Thought this would surely be the time I finally tested positive, but nope. Does this sound like the sort of pain you were experiencing? Because I've never had chest pain like this before and I don't know if I should be ringing 111.

If you're debating about calling 111 and haven't felt pain like it, you should be calling it in my opinion whether it might be covid or not. That's what they're for and they can give you professional advice on whether someone needs to take a look.

Agree, defo call them, don’t feck about with stuff like that. x

 

[Wibble]

Western Australia has finally opened its border after 2 years. Elsewhere QR code check ins are largely gone barring high risk location (hospitals, aged care and nightclubs) and masks are no voluntary in most places. Deaths are remaining low with the current daily running average about 30. Far too high but still better than most places.

 

[saivet]

I wasn't able to avoid Covid in my house in the end. Symptoms started yesterday and positive test today.

Restful weekend ahead. The only positives to this have been not having to go into the office last week because my house is full of Covid and I won't be going in this coming week as I've tested positive.

 

[Skills]

Hope you soon feel better matey.

Can I ask you about the back pain? I started feeling really ill last night in bed, waves of nausea, like acid reflux kinda thing, a headache and a dull ache in my stomach. This morning the pain in my stomach had gone and been replaced by this absolutely awful pain in my back and chest. Like I've been kicked in both places. Agony, pretty much and there's no way to find a comfortable position. I've barely got the energy to move, ache from head and foot and anytime the pain subsides my body tries to fall asleep. No desire to eat or drink anything. Thought this would surely be the time I finally tested positive, but nope. Does this sound like the sort of pain you were experiencing? Because I've never had chest pain like this before and I don't know if I should be ringing 111.

Sorry about the late reply, how are you feeling now?

My back pain wasn't as bad as yours, it was just a bit dull and a constant ache. Apart from the first day, I didn't have any aches anywhere else. It's all pretty much gone now, I had a fairly mild onset - I never had any chest pain at any point too.

 

[Bobski]

Might be like asking how long is a piece of string but for someone who tests positive these days how many days might they hope to test negative afterwards? Thanks

Just had my first negative today, after testing positive at about 2am Tuesday morning. Probably had it from last Saturday though.

 

[Snowjoe]

Thanks, how were your symptoms if you don’t mind me asking? I’ve managed to test positive right before I was due to fly home from Dubai, what a bastard! Had a negative test on Tuesday but then positive ones Sat/Sun. 10 days stuck in my room but apparently after 72 hours I can release myself with a negative PCR test. It’s given me some optimism but maybe I’m being too optimistic hoping to get some negative results so soon already

I was only “ill” so to speak for a day but tested positive for about 7 days

 

[Dumbstar]

Is anyone from who had Omicron a few weeks/months ago suffering from covid-cough? A dry annoying bastard that seems to affect people with underlying allergies.

My 21 y.o. daughter (not the long covid one) has it chronically. The wife has it at a much lesser intensity.