SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Was feeling shitty on Wednesday and woke up feeling rough yesterday. Just thought I had a nasty cold but did a test last night and tested positive again so have now had it twice in 3 months ffs.

Exactly the same symptoms and overall feeling as the last time too.

It's rife here in Torbay once again too, not surprising really as we are still insanely busy compared to a normal February/March time. So many visitors still coming here on holiday.
 
I'm interested to know at what stage posters who are still committed to maskwearing and other interventions like working from home etc, will feel it's time to stop. I'm not really thinking of the context sensitive maskwearing - like visiting the doctor or on crowded public transport - I'm thinking more about when meeting people socially or in a work/education setting.

So if you're not yet in maskless normality:
When will you stop routinely wearing a mask?
When will you feel OK about other people around you not wearing masks?
 
jojojo said:
I'm interested to know at what stage posters who are still committed to maskwearing and other interventions like working from home etc, will feel it's time to stop. I'm not really thinking of the context sensitive maskwearing - like visiting the doctor or on crowded public transport - I'm thinking more about when meeting people socially or in a work/education setting.

So if you're not yet in maskless normality:
When will you stop routinely wearing a mask?
When will you feel OK about other people around you not wearing masks?
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I'm currently abroad in Asia where everyone wears masks almost to show respect for each other.

It's kind of like how Japan wear masks before the pandemic as a way of respect.

I kind of like the idea of me always wearing it.

Living In England everyone is a bit more self centered and wearing a mask is thought of a hassle for ones self rather than helping others out.
 
jojojo said:
Sounds like you went to the same bedside-manner lectures at Med School as Pogue :smirk:
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:lol: I have conflicted feelings. On the one hand he was a sensible voice in here during Covid, on the other hand he disagreed with me on my nonsensical views and therefore I hate him forever and wish great misery upon him.
 
DixieDean said:
When do you think we're going to hear about a new booster? Especially, for the vulnerable.
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As @F-Red said there's a plan in place for the 75+ group that may be set in motion this month (6 months after first booster) and some people on the clinically vulnerable lists are already scheduled to get them as fourth/booster doses.

After weeks of declining cases/hospitalisations/deaths in the UK, there's currently a slight upturn taking place, at least on cases and hospitalisations. They're still analysing this, and need a week or two's more data, but if it's not just a blip it might lead them to accelerate/change the plan.

Donut said:
Is the omicron vaccine still planned? I remember they were saying it’s coming in March.
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So far the omicron targeted boosters haven't shown particularly great results in lab testing - they didn't seem to produce a broader/better response than a straight booster. They're in clinical trials now, but a lot of the enthusiasm for them faded when those lab antibody results came out.
 
Bebestation said:
I'm currently abroad in Asia where everyone wears masks almost to show respect for each other.

It's kind of like how Japan wear masks before the pandemic as a way of respect.

I kind of like the idea of me always wearing it.

Living In England everyone is a bit more self centered and wearing a mask is thought of a hassle for ones self rather than helping others out.
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When you say "always wearing it" do you just mean on things like public transport, or when you/they are at events like concerts, shows, movies or in sports stadia? Do people wear them in the workplace/classroom as well? What about when socialising in people's homes or in hospitality settings or in the gym etc?

Apologies for pushing for more detail - I'm just curious about what it means in practice :D
 
jojojo said:
When you say "always wearing it" do you just mean on things like public transport, or when you/they are at events like concerts, shows, movies or in sports stadia? Do people wear them in the workplace/classroom as well? What about when socialising in people's homes or in hospitality settings or in the gym etc?

Apologies for pushing for more detail - I'm just curious about what it means in practice :D
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Literally if you step outside your house to the corners hope then your almost obliged to wear a mask.
 
Spoke to a Chinese guy (anti-Mao, but lately pro-Xi, he lives in Macao now) who blames HK cases on "HK people want to be free" - their govt doesn't seal buildings when they detect a single case, unlike what happens with the disciplined Chinese people :lol:
He's happy with low cases and things being mostly open in China, but unhappy at lack of life on the streets (blames online shopping that started in 2020).
 
jojojo said:
After weeks of declining cases/hospitalisations/deaths in the UK, there's currently a slight upturn taking place, at least on cases and hospitalisations. They're still analysing this, and need a week or two's more data, but if it's not just a blip it might lead them to accelerate/change the plan.
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Anecdotally we’re going through a pretty serious surge of cases in Ireland. I say anecdotally because you can’t trust the case numbers any more now that the official guidance is basically to not bother getting tested unless old/vulnerable. But over the last week there seems to have been a crazy amount of people I know, directly and indirectly, going down (including everyone in chez moi!). Hospitals/ICUs filling up as well. People also seem to be getting sicker. Again anecdotal and still not very sick but there seems to be a shift from the “mild head cold” of early omicron days to being completely flattened with high fevers, aches and pains. Extremely sore throat also a feature. Hard not to wonder about BA2 turning out to be a bit of a game changer.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Anecdotally we’re going through a pretty serious surge of cases in Ireland. I say anecdotally because you can’t trust the case numbers any more now that the official guidance is basically to not bother getting tested unless old/vulnerable. But over the last week there seems to have been a crazy amount of people I know, directly and indirectly, going down (including everyone in chez moi!). Hospitals/ICUs filling up as well. People also seem to be getting sicker. Again anecdotal and still not very sick but there seems to be a shift from the “mild head cold” of early omicron days to being completely flattened with high fevers, aches and pains. Extremely sore throat also a feature. Hard not to wonder about BA2 turning out to be a bit of a game changer.
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Yeah my daughter tested positive this morning. Think I may have had it earlier in the week but tested negative today.
 
Bebestation said:
I'm currently abroad in Asia where everyone wears masks almost to show respect for each other.

It's kind of like how Japan wear masks before the pandemic as a way of respect.

I kind of like the idea of me always wearing it.

Living In England everyone is a bit more self centered and wearing a mask is thought of a hassle for ones self rather than helping others out.
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Has wearing a mask actually ever proven to be some mega helpful thing?

Considering how often people touch their masks with their hands and how many people are not careful with it, I cannot see how mask is helping at all. If anything, I can see it being helpful in spreading the virus in many cases.
 
Amar__ said:
Has wearing a mask actually ever proven to be some mega helpful thing?
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Yes. Like most measures it doesn't eliminate the spread but it reduces the spread. Even using the cloth masks many use are much better than nothing, surgical masks better still and a well fitting P2/N95 mask better again.
 
Wibble said:
Yes. Like most measures it doesn't eliminate the spread but it reduces the spread. Even using the cloth masks many use are much better than nothing, surgical masks better still and a well fitting P2/N95 mask better again.
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In theory, I would agree.

In reality, considering how people wear it and touch it with their hands, and how often they change it, I seriously doubt it has any use.

I mean, I was pro mask the entire pandemic, and I wore it more than any person I knew, but any time I visited some store, restaurant, etc., anything that involed getting my hands dirty and not having the option to wash my hands before touching the mask again, I seriously couldn't see the efficiency.
 
Amar__ said:
In theory, I would agree.

In reality, considering how people wear it and touch it with their hands, and how often they change it, I seriously doubt it has any use.

I mean, I was pro mask the entire pandemic, and I wore it more than any person I knew, but any time I visited some store, restaurant, etc., anything that involed getting my hands dirty and not having the option to wash my hands before touching the mask again, I seriously couldn't see the efficiency.
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The data says differently. Transmission by touch is believed to be a minor pathway for infection with droplet and particularly aerosol the main route. So masks help even if you touch them.
 
jojojo said:
I'm interested to know at what stage posters who are still committed to maskwearing and other interventions like working from home etc, will feel it's time to stop. I'm not really thinking of the context sensitive maskwearing - like visiting the doctor or on crowded public transport - I'm thinking more about when meeting people socially or in a work/education setting.

So if you're not yet in maskless normality:
When will you stop routinely wearing a mask?
When will you feel OK about other people around you not wearing masks?
Click to expand...

The government of Ontario has set March 21st as the end of mask mandates.

I will stop wearing them on the 21st whenever possible, although I may have to wear one at certain times once a week in the office from March 30th (we'll see what HR says).

I am ok with people not wearing masks now but it might depend on the situation.
 
Wibble said:
The data says differently. Transmission by touch is believed to be a minor pathway for infection with droplet and particularly aerosol the main route. So masks help even if you touch them.
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Well data has been proved so many times wrong in this thread so I will not put much faith in it that much this time.
 
I’ve had 2 x J&J vaccines, and I have the option for a third shot of either J&J or Pfizer. Am I right in thinking Pfizer is definitely the better option?
 
Traub said:
I’ve had 2 x J&J vaccines, and I have the option for a third shot of either J&J or Pfizer. Am I right in thinking Pfizer is definitely the better option?
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With two J&J's definitely. Even if just for increasing broadness of immunity, added to the better efficacy of Phizer.
 
berbatrick said:
Spoke to a Chinese guy (anti-Mao, but lately pro-Xi, he lives in Macao now) who blames HK cases on "HK people want to be free" - their govt doesn't seal buildings when they detect a single case, unlike what happens with the disciplined Chinese people :lol:
He's happy with low cases and things being mostly open in China, but unhappy at lack of life on the streets (blames online shopping that started in 2020).
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The real situation is that Omicron has been too contagious and it spreads real fast. The government DID try to seal buildings when they found new cases at the beginning of this 5th wave, but then there were just so many cases that the government couldn't track. The testing capacity also couldn't meet the demand.

Politically, Macau people tend to receive false information from Chinese media. Fact is, the "dynamic zero tolerance strategy" is unsuitable for this highly transmissible variant, as reflected from outbreaks in mainland China. This is why Hong Kong people want to live with the virus, not simply "want to be free".
 
Amar__ said:
Has wearing a mask actually ever proven to be some mega helpful thing?

Considering how often people touch their masks with their hands and how many people are not careful with it, I cannot see how mask is helping at all. If anything, I can see it being helpful in spreading the virus in many cases.
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I always wonder why westerners struggle to handle masks properly.
 
@Amar__

It's kind of like if the whole country had AIDS or HIV -

It would make sense then to make everyone wear a condom to stop that sexual spread by protecting the sexual way.

Likewise Covid is spread from the mouth and lungs so that is protected to stop sending the infection just as much as it could protect you a bit by wearing a mask too.

Plus, the mask is not the only thing that happens - when a whole country is following wearing a mask (like the country I'm currently visiting) - they do things like check your temperature at every single shop you visit, meaning that if you are showing signs of illness then you are not coming in.
 
Bebestation said:
@Amar__

It's kind of like if the whole country had AIDS or HIV -

It would make sense then to make everyone wear a condom to stop that sexual spread by protecting the sexual way.

Likewise Covid is spread from the mouth and lungs so that is protected to stop sending the infection just as much as it could protect you a bit by wearing a mask too.

Plus, the mask is not the only thing that happens - when a whole country is following wearing a mask (like the country I'm currently visiting) - they do things like check your temperature at every single shop you visit, meaning that if you are showing signs of illness then you are not coming in.
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He'll just say: You can't ensure people wear condoms correctly, so condoms can't stop the sexual spread.
 
The mask thing is a bit of a side issue at this stage. Effects are close to insignificant compared to the effect of an effective vaccine roll-out. I know every little helps (in theory) but a lot of people/countries seem to be exaggerating the beneficial impact of an intervention with very marginal gains. They’re pretty diligent with masks in Hong Kong, right?

Similarly the US is rife with in-fighting about masks when by far the most urgent issue is dealing with states/regions that have poor vaccine uptake. I actually wonder if over zealous mask advocates in the US have increased the divides in the covid culture war and increased the numbers of the vaccine hesitant?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The mask thing is a bit of a side issue at this stage. Effects are close to insignificant compared to the effect of an effective vaccine roll-out. I know every little helps (in theory) but a lot of people/countries seem to be exaggerating the beneficial impact of an intervention with very marginal gains. They’re pretty diligent with masks in Hong Kong, right?

Similarly the US is rife with in-fighting about masks when by far the most urgent issue is dealing with states/regions that have poor vaccine uptake. I actually wonder if over zealous mask advocates in the US have increased the divides in the covid culture war and increased the numbers of the vaccine hesitant?
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Masks help a lot in reducing the spread in Hong Kong. Many asymptomatic (or even symptomatic) carriers go to work and their colleagues are still uninfected. The current outbreak is largely due to the dense population living in a small environment, leading to plenty of household transmission or vertical transmission within a residential building (where people don't wear masks).

I'm always supportive about vaccines and I get both jabs as soon as I could. Problem is they are much less effective against this Omicron variant, especially in terms of stopping transmission. Shame that the second generation vaccines are not available sooner.
 
hmchan said:
Masks help a lot in reducing the spread in Hong Kong. Many asymptomatic (or even symptomatic) carriers go to work and their colleagues are still uninfected. The current outbreak is largely due to the dense population living in a small environment, leading to plenty of household transmission or vertical transmission within a residential building (where people don't wear masks).

I'm always supportive about vaccines and I get both jabs as soon as I could. Problem is they are much less effective against this Omicron variant, especially in terms of stopping transmission. Shame that the second generation vaccines are not available sooner.
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If Masks and vaccines stop transmission, how did France end up with the highest global per capita case load this year?

Not only did they have vaccine passports well before but also a strictly enforced indoor and outdoor mask mandate.
 
Mb194dc said:
If Masks and vaccines stop transmission, how did France end up with the highest global per capita case load this year?

Not only did they have vaccine passports well before but also a strictly enforced indoor and outdoor mask mandate.
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I have no idea about measures in France. Do you live there and can you explain a bit?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, it’s easy to talk tough about life without a mask when you’re not in a lecture room/class room with dozens of youths breathing on you every day!

In other news, think I’ve finally caught the damn thing. Daughter covid positive since the weekend and I’ve woken up with a scratchy throat. Feck it anyway.

Glad your dad’s booster went ok.
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See that’s what happens when you’re celebrating not wearing a mask.. boom, the Rona gets you

on a serious note apparently ireland is experiencing its highest positive surge since restrictions lifted. My next door neighbours have it, loads of kids at school have it. It’s just everywhere at the moment
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The mask thing is a bit of a side issue at this stage. Effects are close to insignificant compared to the effect of an effective vaccine roll-out. I know every little helps (in theory) but a lot of people/countries seem to be exaggerating the beneficial impact of an intervention with very marginal gains. They’re pretty diligent with masks in Hong Kong, right?

Similarly the US is rife with in-fighting about masks when by far the most urgent issue is dealing with states/regions that have poor vaccine uptake. I actually wonder if over zealous mask advocates in the US have increased the divides in the covid culture war and increased the numbers of the vaccine hesitant?
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Yep, that's where I'm at. When we were fighting for every marginal gain to push the R rate down - they may have helped move it from R=1.1 to 1.0 etc. They also have the side-effect of keeping the pandemic on people's minds - reminding us about social distancing, making us question going into crowded or enclosed spaces etc.

Do the typical cloth masks and gaping surgical masks do more than that? It's unlikely, particularly where people are in close proximity - like in classrooms - for long periods. Ventilation does massively more and is less intrusive.

Do correctly worn/fitted FFP2/N95 masks protect the wearer? Yes, there's strong evidence from fully analysed trials that they work to protect healthcare and other high risk workers. So they'll work to protect anyone who wants to wear them. They don't rely on other people's behaviour to do that either. If there are still mask messages need to go out, that's the most important one for most people - you can choose to continue to protect yourself, if that's what you feel you need to do.
 
hmchan said:
Masks help a lot in reducing the spread in Hong Kong. Many asymptomatic (or even symptomatic) carriers go to work and their colleagues are still uninfected. The current outbreak is largely due to the dense population living in a small environment, leading to plenty of household transmission or vertical transmission within a residential building (where people don't wear masks).

I'm always supportive about vaccines and I get both jabs as soon as I could. Problem is they are much less effective against this Omicron variant, especially in terms of stopping transmission. Shame that the second generation vaccines are not available sooner.
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The vaccines weren’t great at preventing transmission with previous variants either. They seem to be doing an exceptional job at keeping people out of hospital (and especially well at keeping them off vents) which is the only realistic goal of any intervention now.
 
jojojo said:
Yep, that's where I'm at. When we were fighting for every marginal gain to push the R rate down - they may have helped move it from R=1.1 to 1.0 etc. They also have the side-effect of keeping the pandemic on people's minds - reminding us about social distancing, making us question going into crowded or enclosed spaces etc.

Do the typical cloth masks and gaping surgical masks do more than that? It's unlikely, particularly where people are in close proximity - like in classrooms - for long periods. Ventilation does massively more and is less intrusive.

Do correctly worn/fitted FFP2/N95 masks protect the wearer? Yes, there's strong evidence from fully analysed trials that they work to protect healthcare and other high risk workers. So they'll work to protect anyone who wants to wear them. They don't rely on other people's behaviour to do that either. If there are still mask messages need to go out, that's the most important one for most people - you can choose to continue to protect yourself, if that's what you feel you need to do.
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Yeah, 100%. We’ve shifted from everyone wearing masks to protect others (dubious evidence base) to the most vulnerable wearing masks to protect themselves (decent evidence base) Which is also the most acceptable approach for society as a whole.
 
golden_blunder said:
See that’s what happens when you’re celebrating not wearing a mask.. boom, the Rona gets you

on a serious note apparently ireland is experiencing its highest positive surge since restrictions lifted. My next door neighbours have it, loads of kids at school have it. It’s just everywhere at the moment
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Yeah, we’re definitely going through another surge. The great news is that ICU occupancy continues to fall. The last time there was this few covid patients on a ventilator was August last year.
 
I have an oximeter. 2 days ago I was registering 99, today 97/96. At what point if it continued to drop should I be concerned?

if i take a reading lying down it actually says 96. The others are from sitting up straight
 
golden_blunder said:
I have an oximeter. 2 days ago I was registering 99, today 97/96. At what point if it continued to drop should I be concerned?

if i take a reading lying down it actually says 96. The others are from sitting up straight
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Posture will affect the reading. So make sure you’re comparing apples with apples.

Do you have covid?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Posture will affect the reading. So make sure you’re comparing apples with apples.

Do you have covid?
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3 lateral flows this past week negative.
I have an ongoing cough, sniffles, sore throat, sore head, have had tummy issues, feel a bit fluey overall. So far about a week.

but it could be just a regular cold, as i haven’t had a bad one in a few years for obvious reasons
 
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