Netherlands
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Thanks
Yeah can you elaborate on this?
Difficult to portray yourself as the enlightened, impartial debater when you use the term concentration camp for quarantine.
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Precisely this.
I can see why he doesn't like repeating himself, I'd be embarrassed repeating that nonsense.
Living in society involves agreeing to a certain social contract, I've no problem this contract being changed in the middle of a pandemic. It causes me 10 seconds of mild inconvenience when entering a venue, and taking a free vaccine that is designed to protect my health, the absolute tyranny.
I’m double vaxxed, annoying that you have to keep emphasising it whenever you say anything that isn’t green lighted or asks questions just so people don’t label you with false pejoratives. But one area that is concerning me is the narrative being used to get teenagers to vaccinate.
We were told the vaccines would would stop infections and stop transmissions. Then we were told they don’t but they reduce the likelihood of severe disease. I understand that, understanding of how things work change and so do viruses’ so that’s normal. But what I really don’t agree with, is that now it’s agreed that vaccination does not stop transmission, people are still telling healthy teenagers to vaccinate because they could infect older family members.
I find that completely outrageous to get people to do something based on a lie and it’s counterproductive because once people realise it they naturally become reluctant. Surely people on tv have a duty to provide accurate information.
We were told the vaccines would would stop infections and stop transmissions. Then we were told they don’t but they reduce the likelihood of severe disease. I understand that, understanding of how things work change and so do viruses’ so that’s normal. But what I really don’t agree with, is that now it’s agreed that vaccination does not stop transmission, people are still telling healthy teenagers to vaccinate because they could infect older family members.
I find that completely outrageous to get people to do something based on a lie and it’s counterproductive because once people realise it they naturally become reluctant. Surely people on tv have a duty to provide accurate information.
You should never have been told that they stop all transmissions - that was never going to be true, that's always been known. Currently they stop around 75% of omicron transmissions and in excess of 90% of delta infections by not letting you get infected at all (assuming you've had the booster or your immunity is high for some other reason - like 2 jabs + past infection or because you're a recently double vaxxed teen).
Not perfect, but it's no lie to say they stop infections and onward transmission. They just can't stop all of it. As for the other advantage of the vaccine - even in the young it has a big impact on hospitalisation rates. What's wrong with going for the best option we've got?
We really don't have any magic tricks we can pull that mean nobody has to do anything to reduce infection or hospitalisation rates or deaths.
Just saw the warning
I’m guessing some of you must work for twitter, that wasn’t my opinion just an article I read and looks like you guys know for sure what’s wrong or what’s right, or should I say what you think is right. I don’t have any answers for the virus and looks like not even the scientists but the world is dividing in the vax and the unvax with the vax dictating and turning in dictators.The fact you think that’s a valid source for discussion is one part hilarious, two parts tragic.Just saw the warning
I never got the message that these vaccines would stop infections or transmission. I only ever heard the message that they would help reduce infection and transmission.
This so called lie you have been told is something I have never heard or anyone I know have ever heard. Where on earth do you get your information?? Maybe you need to address that issue.
Where’s a valid source? CDC is a joke changing their narrative all the time, I trusted them in the beginning but they flip-flop so many times I don’t trust them anymore, then Israel called my attention with interesting data but when a French (well he sounded like one with his accent) scientist called off the fact Israel signed a deal with Pfizer to get all the vaccines and reason why they were ahead of other countries, made me not trust 100% their data. Anyway they are coming with pills but the price is crazy -$700 a pill and we would need at least 3…. Good times and great future we have.
What flip flopping did the CDC do?
The CDC should make it official and send people to cough into everyone's mouth.
Elaborate on what?
I never wrote I was the enlightened and impartial debater: save your energy.
Everything bar supermarkets, chemists and take aways shut. Figures went down from 24k PD to 12k, but now on the rise by 24% over the last week.
Like I said. I understand that virus’ change and it’s impossible to tell how something will truly work before it actually goes into mass production. So I don’t have an issue with the fact that initially we were told the vaccine would stop transmission, and then we were told it didn’t.
I clearly remember in 2020 when we were told the vaccine would stop transmission and mid 2021 when it was discovered that it didn’t. That’s actually not an issue. Although people trying to change history, getting sensitive about it, or gaslight people into thinking they remember wrongly is a bit weird.
People in 2020 Vs 2021
Nah pal, I'll use my energy any way that I want to. You always respond as if your opinion is gospel and frequently talk down to people in the most condescending way possible.
You know exactly what I'm asking you to elaborate on since I quoted it right after the part you've responded to. But why should I expect you to respond in good faith to anyone on this forum?
Maybe that's not your intention, maybe it is. It's difficult to tell unfortunately.
Sorry, I don't know. Please be more specific.
It's not an on/off switch. No vaccine is. Despite the complication of Omicron, which is more immune evasive than Delta, if everyone is vaccinated then the R rate falls below 1 and the infection rate dies down in the community. Only bad luck gets you infected at those levels, and in those circumstances, and it's bad luck when you pass it on.
If you aren't vaccinated and catch it, and you were in a position to be vaccinated, it's not bad luck - it's your choice. If you aren't vaccinated and catch it, and pass it on, then it's not about luck - it's about your decision affecting someone else.
This doesn't make any sense. Any individual's freedom necessarily impinges on the freedom of every other individual. In a world of 8.5 billion people or whatever the number is these days, freedom to pursue one's interest will inevitably contradict someone else's interest.
You are absolutely right.
It does make absolute sense and is actually one of the ground rules of every society. And it's not about mere interest. It's about endangering others with what some might call freedom. We wear masks during this time because it helps protect the most vulnerable in the society. Same goes with he vaccination. Now if some entitled prats think this is unbearable which results in full ICUs then the vaccination needs to be mandatory.
That's a pretty hard lockdown! Interesting to see its not having the same effect as it had here. What are the reasons you think? Are people being careless and not obliging?
You didn't understand what he wrote.
Life is made of battles and conflict of interests that can't be solved in the light of a banal citation.
feck knows what you watch or listen to, but I have NEVER heard any reputable source ever claiming vaccines would completely stop transmission.
Life is made of battles. Now that is a banal citation.
Not being able to do whatever pleases you when it endangeres others is not.
No one gives a shit, its the Netherlands ffs. If you want a good time go to Belgium or Germany. Stupid eu rules and freedom of movement, fecking madness. feck eu rules and close borders, its so feckin simple
My mates in Berlin said the same. They banned fireworks for NYE so people just drove across the border to buy them.
A banal citation is widespread.
In an authentic democracy, the rights of a minority (unvaccinated people in Western countries) must be protected no matter how alienated the minority is from the majority society. Vaccinated people can also endanger the safety/rights of unvaccinated people, so nothing is black or white (Nelson Mandela for your reference).
Here we go again?
Nee variant found in south of France, believed to originate from Cameroon.
Cluster of 12 cases identified so far but that region is seeing a high rate of admissions to ICU despite relative vaccination take up which is causing some concern. Still early days in identifying the threat though.
It's not a new variant. It popped up a month ago and hasn't really moved from the initial clusters. It didn't complete with Delta, it isn't competing with Omicron. Unless that changes, it's just one of many mutations that have been seen and that we'll keep seeing.
Ahh thanks that’s good to know. It seems to have picked up a bit of steam on Twitter today.
Dr Rochelle Walensky Director of CDC “vaccinated people do not carry the virus, do not get sick” Vs “what they can’t do anymore is prevent transmissions”
Obviously once they learnt more about the virus/vaccine or new variants came things changed and they amended their opinion.
Why would anyone expect vaccines to be sterilising when virtually no vaccines are sterilising?
They don't need to be sterilising to do a great job so why covidiots are trying to turn this into something meaningful is bewildering? Then and antivaxxers and covidiots are bewildering.
Is it possible to have a viral load so low that it's undetectable by the current test methods, yet still enough to cause symptoms?
Doubt it. Especially with classic symptoms. I believe that a typical PCR test can detect a single molecule of RNA in a microlitre of solution whereas the lateral flow antigen tests need a sample to contain probably tens of thousands of viral particles per microlitre to produce a positive result
There was something I read in the Lancet about poor nasopharyngeal sampling technique in young kids - in addition to young kids having very low viral loads + timing of testing possibly leading to a few more false negatives than would be expected but that's about it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-59858887
Will see more and more hospital reporting critical incidents like this with NHS staff shortages.
Am so lucky to have a supportive spouse as we've been really living like a hermit to prevent us getting omicron and not leaving colleagues in the shit.
Will see more and more hospital reporting critical incidents like this with NHS staff shortages.
Am so lucky to have a supportive spouse as we've been really living like a hermit to prevent us getting omicron and not leaving colleagues in the shit.