SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

2cents said:
Posting this not necessarily as an endorsement, but I think many are coming around to this point of view right now (note he is a UCL professor who, according to Wikipedia, “led the first large-scale sequencing project of the Sars-CoV2 genome”):





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I think he's right, but obviously timing is not a minor point. Timing will differ from country to country and the variant we're facing at the time might pick the route, but the broad principle is one I agree with.

It's not a nice message, but it's reasonable to assume that just as we live with flu and other infectious diseases - that remain deadly to some people, irrespective of years of vaccine development and treatment research - we'll live with this as well. In fact it's important that we restart normal life, too many things (from education to relationships to care for the old and vulnerable as well as things that get dismissed as "just for fun") are being left undone or badly done at the moment.
 
F-Red said:
I doubt they would have the same enthusiasm if they weren’t being paid holiday through furlough.
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I don't think they're talking about that kind of person.

They're talking about the kind of people who are already married, with a house and garden, perhaps enough spare rooms so that they have an actual 'study/office' room, perhaps kids already old enough to have gone off to university and who are settled and comfortable in their jobs/careers, often which can be done at home.

That's not to say those people haven't also had to sacrifice things, haven't also had a shit time of things at times, haven't also lost people. It has undoubtedly been easier for those though than many many others in society, financially, socially, personally, emotionally, mentally etc.

Can't help but notice that many of those calling for lockdowns at the earliest possible moments tend to be those in the former group.
 
Penna said:
This just reinforces that the UK's "lockdown" wasn't really a lockdown at all. There were some restrictions which had a big impact on some groups of people (like folk in care homes who couldn't see their families, cancelled weddings and not being able to attend funerals of loved ones), but the general restrictions didn't prevent people from going out and about.
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The UK's first lockdown was a proper lockdown. We may not have had police roaming around the country asking every single person out what they were doing (though that did happen on occasion). Especially the first couple of months, the roads were almost entirely empty on my way to and from work.

If we're talking China style lockdown, then none of us in Europe had a proper lockdown.
 
Dante said:
Ah, yeah, sorry. I plugged in 57m instead of 67m as the UK population. It should be 76%, 70% and 48% for the entire population.

That being said, uptake for eligible over 12s it's 89.8%, 82.2% and 56.5%. So if we're bringing age into it, the real figures are even better.
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There was a bit of a pause after 23rd December because all the sites shut down. But I expect the vaccination program to pick up again this week.
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Uptake for the over 12s is nice and high, hopefully we start to see that helping things soon for you guys.
 
Suedesi said:
Just got my results, SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19): POSITIVE

Last 2 days have been very rough (fever, chills, dry throat, foggy head, extreme fatigue) - but thankfully no chest pains or difficulty breathing. Hoping to put this behind me soon.
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Get well soon
 
fellwin said:
They might have, unfortunately the finer details are only available in a report directly to the government, which might be public, but I haven’t found it.


However, anecdotically my sister is a doctor in a cancer ward, and she says almost all of their covid infections happen after the patients (quite sick as it’s a ward for the less treatable cancers) are hospitalized
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Think this will be quite variable by the way. I am not sure if the systems will be the same but our haematology ward (blood disorders, including blood cancers and those who've blood cells have been shot from chemotherapy and are at much higher risk of infection because of it) is a green ward. You are not allowed in as a patient until the formal pcr has come back as negative and all staff who work there regularly must do a pcr at least once a week.

Rules of course, while strict, aren't as much on other wards so think the percentage of hospital acquired covid would be far higher amongst those patients than it would be in the general patient population.

As @jojojo has pointed out, the issue it presents is that regardless of whether they are in because of covid or happen to have covid, we need to cohort them away from other patients and this provides logistical difficulties if the numbers get too high.

The other issue that is doctors are not just 'doctors' but we have our own specialisms. Of course, for the most part, we can get by, especially if for instance we do internal medicine. But what you'll find is that these wards may end up being filled with gastro, cardio, endo, neuro patients who should be on their base wards and are not. So either aren't being looked after anymore by their regular team or the regular team have to come to the red ward from green wards and increase the risk of hospital acquired transmission to their other patients, as well as transmission to themselves!

Logistical issues galore.
 
After almost 2 years of avoiding it, despite working at times on Covid wards, on wards where aerosol generating procedures are ongoing....I've finally succumbed to this stupid disease. I think from a particularly packed train I had to get. For fecks sake.
 
africanspur said:
After almost 2 years of avoiding it, despite working at times on Covid wards, on wards where aerosol generating procedures are ongoing....I've finally succumbed to this stupid disease. I think from a particularly packed train I had to get. For fecks sake.
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Shite. Get well soon. Although probably no better time to get infected.

Here’s a good really well informed thread on how omicron is affecting the NHS (mainly aimed at other readers, I’m sure you have your own experience/opinion already!).



tl;dr

Basically the same experience as SA.
 
africanspur said:
After almost 2 years of avoiding it, despite working at times on Covid wards, on wards where aerosol generating procedures are ongoing....I've finally succumbed to this stupid disease. I think from a particularly packed train I had to get. For fecks sake.
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Get well soon
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Shite. Get well soon. Although probably no better time to get infected.

Here’s a good really well informed thread on how omicron is affecting the NHS (mainly aimed at other readers, I’m sure you have your own experience/opinion already!).



tl;dr

Basically the same experience as SA.
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Thanks guys.

And totally agreed, the staff absences (exhibit A!) are a huge problem in keeping anything like a normal service running at the moment.
 
2cents said:
Posting this not necessarily as an endorsement, but I think many are coming around to this point of view right now (note he is a UCL professor who, according to Wikipedia, “led the first large-scale sequencing project of the Sars-CoV2 genome”):





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I think he advises the Government too. Anyway, what he’s saying isn’t new in any way. The U.K. have taken this approach since the summer when they opened up with zero rules knowing it could result in 100,000 cases a with Delta day - we’ve all known it’s endemic for some time. I’m guessing the messaging will soon change - and the testing of people without symptoms/isolation of contacts/isolation time for those with symptoms will reduce - I think by February many countries will be taking this approach.
 
Pogue Mahone said:


Small study but potentially very good news indeed.
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That's very interesting.

I wonder what the bioethicists/scientists/policy makers will make of the policy of essentially re-thinking herd immunity - both infection and vaccine-induced- and being lax with restrictions with UK and South African data come January/February should explosion in Omicron cases potentially not translate into too much stress on healthcare systems - by way of severe disease, ITU admissions, turnaround of patient admissions.
 
Wolverine said:
That's very interesting.

I wonder what the bioethicists/scientists/policy makers will make of the policy of essentially re-thinking herd immunity - both infection and vaccine-induced- and being lax with restrictions with UK and South African data come January/February should explosion in Omicron cases potentially not translate into too much stress on healthcare systems - by way of severe disease, ITU admissions, turnaround of patient admissions.
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I think herd immunity as a path to eliminating the virus is off the table but as a tactic to enhance population immunity it seems a lot less crazy than the “let the bodies pile high” stuff from March 2020, now we’ve a heavily vaccinated population and a less virulent variant.
 
Wibble said:
That reasoning made no sense whatsoever. Someone would have to be really really stupid to think that was in any way logical.
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Of course you're going to have people sitting at home thinking wtf did I bother getting these vaccines if I can't live my normal life, if the UK was to lockdown again.

That was the whole drive behind them in the first place.
 
Reading everything we really should be back to normal come March. Hopefully we can share more vaccines with the rest of the world.
 
Still just a standard dose of man flu here with me after testing positive Xmas day.
 
Suedesi said:
Nasty bugger indeed
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Just to update, after two days of nasty symptoms and extremely poor sleep, I slept for twelve hours last night uninterrupted (which is practically unheard of for me), and now feel tonnes better. Hope you’ve seen a similar improvement!
 
Posh Red said:
Just to update, after two days of nasty symptoms and extremely poor sleep, I slept for twelve hours last night uninterrupted (which is practically unheard of for me), and now feel tonnes better. Hope you’ve seen a similar improvement!
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Same - last two nights I've slept for 10 hrs + and I feel just so much better. Not ready to bike a century yet, but I may be able to carry a few grocery bags for a few blocks without panting
 
2cents said:
Posting this not necessarily as an endorsement, but I think many are coming around to this point of view right now (note he is a UCL professor who, according to Wikipedia, “led the first large-scale sequencing project of the Sars-CoV2 genome”):





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I'm no expert but that's what it looks like to me as well. It's looking like a mild enough version now that we can go ahead and get it.

That being said, due to the trauma caused by this pandemic I expect the response to be conservative, and to treat this variant as if it were more dangerous just to be better prepared in case he and I are wrong. With so much at stake it makes sense people would err on the side of caution here.
 
2cents said:
Posting this not necessarily as an endorsement, but I think many are coming around to this point of view right now (note he is a UCL professor who, according to Wikipedia, “led the first large-scale sequencing project of the Sars-CoV2 genome”):





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@Pogue Mahone @jojojo @africanspur Do you know which drugs he is talking about for treatment?
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
@Pogue Mahone @jojojo @africanspur Do you know which drugs he is talking about for treatment?
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The new ones for treating people to stop it getting serious are Paxlovid & Monulpiravir. Paxlovid did very well on clinical trial. Budesonide (an asthma drug) and some others that have done well on trials are around as well, but I'm not sure if they're being routinely prescribed anywhere.

I believe the NY mayor has just announced they've got Paxlovid available, but then I read a NY doctor say that in reality they have only a limited number of doses available. I really don't think the supply is there for mass prescribing.

I'm guessing what you're asking is what's available now, but I suspect that comes down to your exact location and your doctor, and whether he can get treatments through early availability and rollout trial programs.
 
So there's a drug now to save the anti vaxxers should things go south. I wonder if the ironing will be lost on them?
 
jojojo said:
The new ones for treating people to stop it getting serious are Paxlovid & Monulpiravir. Paxlovid did very well on clinical trial. Budesonide (an asthma drug) and some others that have done well on trials are around as well, but I'm not sure if they're being routinely prescribed anywhere.

I believe the NY mayor has just announced they've got Paxlovid available, but then I read a NY doctor say that in reality they have only a limited number of doses available. I really don't think the supply is there for mass prescribing.

I'm guessing what you're asking is what's available now, but I suspect that comes down to your exact location and your doctor, and whether he can get treatments through early availability and rollout trial programs.
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Forgot to say there's also a monoclonal antibody treatment called sotrovimab that works against omicron, but I think the other monoclonals look like they won't help.

All the drugs come with lots of provisos, particularly about things like interactions with other medications and safety when used by people with certain medical conditions. I don't think any of them are at the stage where they can be prescribed routinely.
 
jojojo said:
The new ones for treating people to stop it getting serious are Paxlovid & Monulpiravir. Paxlovid did very well on clinical trial. Budesonide (an asthma drug) and some others that have done well on trials are around as well, but I'm not sure if they're being routinely prescribed anywhere.

I believe the NY mayor has just announced they've got Paxlovid available, but then I read a NY doctor say that in reality they have only a limited number of doses available. I really don't think the supply is there for mass prescribing.

I'm guessing what you're asking is what's available now, but I suspect that comes down to your exact location and your doctor, and whether he can get treatments through early availability and rollout trial programs.
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Thanks, I appreciate that. One of my relatives, from New York actually, had it two months ago (so maybe it was Delta) and she had severe symptoms. Her GP prescribed her something that really helped in like 2-3 days. I wonder if it was one of those, but I haven't heard yet what it might have been.
 
Dumbstar said:
So there's a drug now to save the anti vaxxers should things go south. I wonder if the ironing will be lost on them?
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What's this? Just asking because my parents have turned to anti vaxxers at an old age and I'm keeping updated due to me being worried.
 
Just before the advent of covid, or when it became a thing for us in UK me and one of my son's ended up in hospital due to breathing difficulties. Basically I was breathing like Darth Vader and my son was similar. We had xrays etc done and we're prescribed a drug which cleared it up within a few days. It was suspected pneumonia but never diagnosed as that in the end.

I'm talking a good 4-6 months before Wuhan became a thing. I have no under lying. Conditions (eg asthma) neither has my son.

Never thought about it much at the time. One of those "I was ill and it got sorted" moments.

Thinking back I've often wondered if it was in anyway covid related.
 
Roane said:
Just before the advent of covid, or when it became a thing for us in UK me and one of my son's ended up in hospital due to breathing difficulties. Basically I was breathing like Darth Vader and my son was similar. We had xrays etc done and we're prescribed a drug which cleared it up within a few days. It was suspected pneumonia but never diagnosed as that in the end.

I'm talking a good 4-6 months before Wuhan became a thing. I have no under lying. Conditions (eg asthma) neither has my son.

Never thought about it much at the time. One of those "I was ill and it got sorted" moments.

Thinking back I've often wondered if it was in anyway covid related.
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If it was two of you, months before the actual start of the covid pandemic, you would have spread it across the entire community in a matter of weeks. Then evidence of the virus would have been found months earlier and hospital death rates would have noticeably spiked for anyone in the media to see (since it's all visible on the NHS website).

Which is to say, I doubt you were in the covid vanguard. It's not a disease that hides in the shadows waiting for the right moment pounce. If you'd had it that far in the past, the whole pandemic would have also started that far in the past. Track-and-trace from March or April 2020 shows that it didn't.

I think genome sequencing also shows that the trail of mutations all lead back to a granddaddy version in Wuhan December 2019. There's nothing to suggest there was a second early origin point in the UK.

So don't blame yourselves for anything. It wasn't your fault. I say that assuming you and your lad never bought some Kentucky Fried Pangolin in China around about that time.
 
Dante said:
If it was two of you, months before the actual start of the covid pandemic, you would have spread it across the entire community in a matter of weeks. Then evidence of the virus would have been found months earlier and hospital death rates would have noticeably spiked for anyone in the media to see (since it's all visible on the NHS website).

Which is to say, I doubt you were in the covid vanguard. It's not a disease that hides in the shadows waiting for the right moment pounce. If you'd had it that far in the past, the whole pandemic would have also started that far in the past. Track-and-trace from March or April 2020 shows that it didn't.

I think genome sequencing also shows that the trail of mutations all lead back to a granddaddy version in Wuhan December 2019. There's nothing to suggest there was a second early origin point in the UK.

So don't blame yourselves for anything. It wasn't your fault. I say that assuming you and your lad never bought some Kentucky Fried Pangolin in China around about that time.
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At the time there had also been some news from the USA about people dying and being hospitalized with breathing difficulties or surviving but now 20 year olds having lungs of 70 year olds.

Think it was something to do with vaping and mixing liquids, or so the conclusion went.

I wasn't vaping and my son was very young. We were a big family and no one else has any symptoms similar to ours.

I did get covid about 8 months back. I've had colds that were worse. A couple of days of shivering and a slight cough and fever. My dad same. Other members got it even more mildly
 
Beans said:
I'm no expert but that's what it looks like to me as well. It's looking like a mild enough version now that we can go ahead and get it.

That being said, due to the trauma caused by this pandemic I expect the response to be conservative, and to treat this variant as if it were more dangerous just to be better prepared in case he and I are wrong. With so much at stake it makes sense people would err on the side of caution here.
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A lot of companies in the US are erring on the side of wanton carelessness. Some businesses I know of are forcing people to come into work unless they are symptomatic with a fever which seems insane to me when their jobs could be 100% done working from home. What I'm hearing from one workplace, even if people are positive and symptomatic, the boss expects them to come into work which is truly fecking insane. Even here in California, the state and city officials aren't issuing the safer from home mandates they did a year ago despite skyrocketing new cases.
 
“If the self-isolation rules are what’s making the pain associated with Covid, then we need to do that perhaps sooner rather than later. Maybe not quite just yet.

“Covid is only one virus of a family of coronaviruses, and the other coronaviruses throw off new variants typically every year or so, and that’s almost certainly what’s going to happen with Covid. It will become effectively just another cause of the common cold.

“Once we’re past Easter, perhaps, then maybe we should start to look at scaling back, depending on, of course, what the disease is at that time.”
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Grauniad

We may be nearing the tipping point where the restrictions cause more problems than virus itself.

Still a little ways to go before anyone can say for certain, though. Scientists will need to see the data from the Christmas period aftermath before they reach any reasonable conclusions.

The guy in the article is suggesting Easter as a possibility. Personally, I think hotspots like London and New York will get there a lot sooner. Maybe that's just wishful thinking.
 
Could this be over soon?

Is there a chance that omicron will ultimately be the final obstacle / notable variant and that we would really move on from all of this after the next few weeks?

Really at my wits end
 
GDaly95 said:
Could this be over soon?

Is there a chance that omicron will ultimately be the final obstacle / notable variant and that we would really move on from all of this after the next few weeks?

Really at my wits end
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There's a chance, yes.

Nobody with a reputation to uphold would ever say so. Thankfully, I don't have one.
 
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