SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

CanadianUtd said:
Know the difference between fully licensed vaccines and those authorized under the EUA. EUA are are considered “experimental” under law. Fully licensed FDA approval means carrying liability which these vaccines do not. They’re “approved”, just not the way you thought of it.

…again, I wish my doctor knew more about this who said this is correct.
Click to expand...
Johns Hopkins also seems to think that the Pfizer vaccine got fully approved by the FDA…

“The Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine received full approval by the FDA on Aug. 23, 2021.

Lisa Maragakis, M.D., M.P.H., senior director of infection prevention, and Gabor Kelen, M.D., director of the Johns Hopkins Office of Critical Event Preparedness and Response, explain what that means.

Review for full FDA approval is a normal step in the process of making a vaccine available for the public. One of the COVID-19 vaccines (Pfizer) has full approval, and the FDA may grant full approval for others in the future.

Full FDA approval takes place when enough data demonstrate that the vaccines are safe and effective for most people who receive them, and when the FDA has had an opportunity to review and approve the whole vaccine manufacturing process and facilities.”

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...al-of-a-covid-19-vaccine-what-you-should-know
 
Carolina Red said:
Johns Hopkins also seems to think that the Pfizer vaccine got fully approved by the FDA…

“The Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine received full approval by the FDA on Aug. 23, 2021.

Lisa Maragakis, M.D., M.P.H., senior director of infection prevention, and Gabor Kelen, M.D., director of the Johns Hopkins Office of Critical Event Preparedness and Response, explain what that means.

Review for full FDA approval is a normal step in the process of making a vaccine available for the public. One of the COVID-19 vaccines (Pfizer) has full approval, and the FDA may grant full approval for others in the future.

Full FDA approval takes place when enough data demonstrate that the vaccines are safe and effective for most people who receive them, and when the FDA has had an opportunity to review and approve the whole vaccine manufacturing process and facilities.”

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...al-of-a-covid-19-vaccine-what-you-should-know
Click to expand...


Again, the link in your own post
Carolina Red said:
Crazy then how this happened in August…
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine

Again, I beg you, just post “I don’t know what I’m talking about” and be done with it.
Click to expand...

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine
Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved the first COVID-19 vaccine. The vaccine has been known as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, and will now be marketed as Comirnaty (koe-mir’-na-tee), for the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older. The vaccine also continues to be available under emergency use authorization (EUA), including for individuals 12 through 15 years of age and for the administration of a third dose in certain immunocompromised individuals.
Click to expand...


another direct link:
https://www.fda.gov/emergency-prepa...virus-disease-2019-covid-19/covid-19-vaccines
COVID-19 Vaccines Authorized for Emergency Use or FDA-Approved
Fact sheets for health care providers and patients included
Report vaccine side effects toll-free at 1-800-822-7967or online
Click to expand...

continued:
https://www.fda.gov/emergency-prepa...omirnaty-and-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine
On August 23, 2021, FDA announced the first approval of a COVID-19 vaccine. The vaccine has been known as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, and will now be marketed as Comirnaty, for the prevention of COVID-19 in individuals 16 years of age and older.

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is authorized for emergency use and is available under the EUA as a two-dose primary series for individuals 5 years of age and older, as a third primary series dose for individuals 12 years of age and older who have been determined to have certain kinds of immunocompromise, and as a single booster dose for individuals 16 years of age and older at least six months after completing a primary series of the vaccine.
Click to expand...


…..maybe the fda, pfizer, my specialist, and myself are all crazy. Could be but I’m definitely not going to bother anymore on this topic. It’s quite transparently written.
 
Carolina Red said:
Definitely one of them.
Click to expand...

:lol: you’re implying all of us then? Because like…..we’re all saying the same thing.

I’m saying what they’re saying and they’re saying what I’m saying. From the horses mouth, not anyone else.

;)
 
CanadianUtd said:
:lol: you’re implying all of us then? Because like…..we’re all saying the same thing.

I’m saying what they’re saying and they’re saying what I’m saying. From the horses mouth, not anyone else.

;)
Click to expand...
The EUA applies to the specific instances and groups listed later in the paragraph. You should have kept reading.
 
Carolina Red said:
The EUA applies to the specific instances and groups listed in the paragraph. You should have kept reading.
Click to expand...

as in, like everyone it’s authorized for?

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is authorized for emergency use and is available under the EUA as a two-dose primary series for individuals 5 years of age and older, as a third primary series dose for individuals 12 years of age and older who have been determined to have certain kinds of immunocompromise, and as a single booster dose for individuals 16 years of age and older at least six months after completing a primary series of the vaccine.
Click to expand...

so quite literally…..”authorized for emergency use and is available under the EUA”, for everyone of the ages that is eligible to receive it at any point.

There’s literally no omission or exception. Thank you for proving my/their point! Glad to see we agree on this :D
 
CanadianUtd said:
as in, like everyone it’s authorized for?



so quite literally…..”authorized for emergency use and is available under the EUA”, for everyone of the ages that is eligible to receive it.

There’s literally no omission or exception. Thank you for proving my/their point! Glad to see we agree on this :D
Click to expand...
Simply put: No.

It’s EUA for kids over 5. It’s EUA for kids over 12 who are immunocompromised. It’s EUA as a single booster dose for those over 16.

More reading, fewer emojis. You can do this!
 
Carolina Red said:
Simply put: No.

It’s EUA for kids under 5. It’s EUA for kids over 12 who are immunocompromised. It’s EUA as a single booster dose for those over 16.

More reading, fewer emojis. You can do this!
Click to expand...

I know you’re a staff member but what’s honestly going on here? You’re literally agreeing with me/them. The point you we’re trying to make is proven wrong by the fda itself. And it’s not “under” 5, it’s over. If that was a typo then you’ll see by reading it’s over 5.

https://www.fda.gov/emergency-prepa...omirnaty-and-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine
On August 23, 2021, FDA announced the first approval of a COVID-19 vaccine. The vaccine has been known as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, and will now be marketed as Comirnaty, for the prevention of COVID-19 in individuals 16 years of age and older.

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is authorized for emergency use and is available under the EUA as a two-dose primary series for individuals 5 years of age and older, as a third primary series dose for individuals 12 years of age and older who have been determined to have certain kinds of immunocompromise, and as a single booster dose for individuals 16 years of age and older at least six months after completing a primary series of the vaccine.
Click to expand...

once you thoroughly read the bolded, you’ll soon realize and understand that the pfizer vaccines for all peoples it’s eligible for under all eligible ages…..are all, “authorized for emergency use and is available under the EUA”.

Quite honestly I’m not even trying to be demeaning. I’m just baffled that you can’t comprehend that. Like I said in the last post, there’s no omission. All the available vaccines from pfizer are available under the EUA. There’s not a single vaccine they have available outside of that.

Source: them.

Anyways sorry but I’m done with this discussion. I don’t know how much clearer the fda can be or myself in trying to explain it. Don’t want anymore of this endless cycle.
 
CanadianUtd said:
I know you’re a staff member but what’s honestly going on here?
Click to expand...
That was a typo that was immediately edited. Check the current post.

And here is the most straight forward explanation of it that I could find for you. If you can’t understand this, then you’re either hopeless or being intentional about it.

“While Moderna and Johnson & Johnson are still on emergency use authorization, or EUA, Pfizer received full FDA approval Aug. 23, 2021, for those 16 years and older; it is the only COVID-19 vaccine so far that has received full FDA approval in the United States. EUA remains for kids ages 12 through 15 years old, and in October 2021, EUA was expanded for children ages 5 through 11.”
https://www.dailycal.org/2021/12/09/vaccine/
 
I truly can’t comprehend why this is like pulling teeth to get you to realize it is saying that it is EUA for 5-11’s, 12-15’s who are immunocompromised, and as a booster for 16+, but that it is Fully Approved as a vaccine for all scenarios outside those parameters.
 
Carolina Red said:
That was a typo that was immediately edited. Check the current post.

And here is the most straight forward explanation of it that I could find for you. If you can’t understand this, then you’re either hopeless or being intentional about it.

“While Moderna and Johnson & Johnson are still on emergency use authorization, or EUA, Pfizer received full FDA approval Aug. 23, 2021, for those 16 years and older; it is the only COVID-19 vaccine so far that has received full FDA approval in the United States. EUA remains for kids ages 12 through 15 years old, and in October 2021, EUA was expanded for children ages 5 through 11.”
https://www.dailycal.org/2021/12/09/vaccine/
Click to expand...

Ohh okay

Likewise, I don’t see the point in going to news organizations or media in trying to spin something a certain way when it’s available directly from them source itself. Until they (the FDA) say otherwise, it stands as the case. I think I read a judge in the US is currently pressing the point too as it’s misleading and confusing according to the FDAs own description which is up for anyone to see vs. what people perceived it as.


Carolina Red said:
I truly can’t comprehend why this is like pulling teeth to get you to realize it is saying that it is EUA for 5-11’s, 12-15’s who are immunocompromised, and as a booster for 16+, but that it is Fully Approved as a vaccine for all scenarios outside those parameters.
Click to expand...

where are you getting 5-11 from? “is available under the EUA as a two-dose primary series for individuals 5 years of age and older”, the FDA clearly states 5+. That’s the entire scope of people eligible without omission.

…..if you can find where the FDA itself (and not any other outlet or source) says so, then I’ll gladly say I was incorrect. All I’m saying is they haven’t and it’s still up on their own damn website! Both my doctors/specialists said that’s correct the other day when asked. I’ll respectfully take their word over yours or some other non-primary source, Madness!! :eek: :lol:
 
5 and older obviously cuts off at 15 years and 364 days due to the presence of 16 years in the preceding approval statement. This shouldn't be hard to deduce.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
5 and older obviously cuts off at 15 years and 364 days due to the presence of 16 years in the preceding approval statement. This shouldn't be hard to deduce.
Click to expand...

Not obvious at all. Dude(s!), my oncologists clearly told me and I’m not taking an ‘obvious’ assumption that you or anyone else makes.

The preceding “16 years” statement is about boosters. The former is about the primary dose. They’re completely irrelevant from one another. All that’s saying is the booster isn’t yet approved for ages 5-15 (16+ where it’s given the green light) whereas the primary 2 dose sequence is available for those ages and up (5+).
 
Last edited:
Carolina Red said:
They did. You just literally do not know how to read it.

I’m literally trying to help you read.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, me and @Dr. Dwayne are reading something different to you.

Again, if we’re missing the boat please feel free to link it to the FDA and quote it. I haven’t seen that yet unless I missed it somewhere and you already shared it in which case I’m sorry.
 
CanadianUtd said:
Not obvious at all. Dude(s!), my oncologists clearly told me and I’m not taking an obvious assumption that you or anyone else makes.

The preceding “16 years” statement is about boosters. The former is about the primary dose. They’re completely irrelevant from one another. All that’s saying is the booster isn’t yet approved for ages 5-11 whereas the primary 2 dose sequence is available for those ages and up (5+).
Click to expand...

No, the preceding statement is about the vaccine being FDA approved for prevention of covid19 in individuals aged 16 and up. In August that meant two doses.

Use as a booster in those 16 and over wasn't under consideration when the FDA approved the vaccine, hence the need to make boosters available under EUA.
 
Carolina Red said:
He thinks you’re wrong too, big guy.
Click to expand...

What’s with the attitude? He’s reading the same thing I’m reading at least…

And you’re yet to provide what I’ve requested (unless again it was posted and I missed it in which case apologies but do please point me that way if it is the case)
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
No, the preceding statement is about the vaccine being FDA approved for prevention of covid19 in individuals aged 16 and up. In August that meant two doses.

Use as a booster in those 16 and over wasn't under consideration when the FDA approved the vaccine, hence the need to make boosters available under EUA.
Click to expand...

Mind DMing me? Should be easier there instead of nit-pick back and forth here

(because I do have more to say, just don’t want to drag it on here any more. If you prefer here, I can just post it shortly)
 
CanadianUtd said:
What’s with the attitude? He’s reading the same thing I’m reading at least…

And you’re yet to provide what I’ve requested (unless again it was posted and I missed it in which case apologies but do please point me that way if it is the case)
Click to expand...
What’s with the attitude? You’re trumpeting a Candace Owens conspiracy that’s been debunked for months. It’s old.

Here is the BLA Approval letter from the FDA, providing Full Approval for the Pfizer vaccine. Just like I said.
https://www.fda.gov/media/151710/download

And what Dwayne said here is what I’ve been telling you this whole time.
Dr. Dwayne said:
No, the preceding statement is about the vaccine being FDA approved for prevention of covid19 in individuals aged 16 and up. In August that meant two doses.

Use as a booster in those 16 and over wasn't under consideration when the FDA approved the vaccine, hence the need to make boosters available under EUA.
Click to expand...
 
CanadianUtd said:
Mind DMing me? Should be easier there instead of nit-pick back and forth here
Click to expand...

I'm not so much nit-picking as deconstructing the statement to clarify all of its elements. The way it's presented can seem confusing if you take each paragraph in isolation.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
I'm not so much nit-picking as deconstructing the statement to clarify all of its elements. The way it's presented can seem confusing if you take each paragraph in isolation.
Click to expand...

Ohh okkay, I see what you’re saying. Yes you’re right, it can seem confusing for that very reason.

…I did mention that to my oncologists but maybe they missed that too? I really don’t know what to think atm. Because when I asked them and wanted clarification, I remember my main doc, her saying along the lines of “16+ booster for after completing the primary series. ‘Primary series’ falls under eua according to their statement (specifically the 2nd body, 1st sentence where it says available for 5+ under eua as two-dose “primary series”) from what I can tell”.

I do however get what you’re alluding to with the 1st body. Maybe I can pop by and re-mention again for the sake of clarity but when I mentioned the judge in the US thats pressing this (for the same reason aka clarity/confusion), she said it’s correct as far as she knows.

Thanks for your time and putting up with me :nervous:
 
In all seriousness, can this guy be thread banned? This isn’t a Messi vs Ronaldo debate, there are lies being spouted which may stop other individuals from getting a life saving vaccine.
 
Traub said:
In all seriousness, can this guy be thread banned? This isn’t a Messi vs Ronaldo debate, there are lies being spouted which may stop other individuals from getting a life saving vaccine.
Click to expand...
He’s received a very good education today outside of his own echo chamber. I don’t think he should be thread banned just yet, personally.
 
I think for some on here it might be worth a friendly reminder of the thread title:

SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
 
Had my Moderna booster yesterday and have woken up with a dull but uncomfortable pain in the left hand side of my chest, just under my left nipple. Gets worse when I breath in. Could have just slept funny I guess but my minds racing.
 
CanadianUtd said:
Ohh okay, thank you. I wonder why they continue to use the original vaccines when there are strain-specific vaccines made since which are supposedly more optimal.
Click to expand...

They prepared a Delta tweaked one but it looks like it isn't neccesary especially given Omicron and that may or may not need a tweaked vaccine. The third shot seems to provide 98% protection against severe disease.
 
Last edited:
Pulled out of our works Christmas party this Friday. Instead of a large company bash it had been decided that it would be better to have smaller get togethers and stay in our teams.

In the current situation it seems too risky for me. As the manager I feel like I’m letting them down a bit. I’m not stopping or judging the rest of the team for going ahead but I’m not comfortable with it.
 
Volumiza said:
Pulled out of our works Christmas party this Friday. Instead of a large company bash it had been decided that it would be better to have smaller get togethers and stay in our teams.

In the current situation it seems too risky for me. As the manager I feel like I’m letting them down a bit. I’m not stopping or judging the rest of the team for going ahead but I’m not comfortable with it.
Click to expand...
I imagine it will give some people in your team the confidence to drop out as well if they are like you and do not feel comfortable.
 
Carolina Red said:
Damn, your exact Candace Owens copyright argument was fact checked and debunked on August 26th

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...roved-pfizers-coronavirus-vaccine/5594543001/
Click to expand...
On the reddit sub HermanCainAward, Candace is known as "Candeath". She regularly appears in the FaceBook posts of the anti-vaxxers just before they get Covid, demand horse dewormer and then succumb.

I recommend that sub to @CanadianUtd, it's very educational. It shows how mass delusion is killing people (clue - it's not the vaccinated who are dying).
 
Judgement – It is clear that the root cause of this pandemic of conflicting opinions is democratic principles itself. In a totalitarian state there would be no dissidents. Freedom of speech has come home to roost. 500 years ago, it was Church vs State vs Science. Now it is Science and State vs Science and State. The public opinion is drawn from these battlelines, which have never been broadcasted freely. We are seeing civilization eating itself. To quote my friend Orwell, “Freedom is slavery.” I find democratic values guilty on all charges and sentence it, verbless.

Extract:

Prosecutor: I put it to you, Scientist, that it was YOU who caused the divide in public opinion!

Scientist: I reject that, sir. Scientists have always disagreed on what is "the truth". We just usually disagree in scientific journals. Through experiment and theory, we seek to prove and disprove. Unfortunately, some scientists used the media this time around. Or rather, the media used some scientists to drive an agenda. And the subject matter is fairly straightforward – not quantum theory – so the media and the public can contribute to “the truth”.

Prosecutor: I put it to you, Media, that it was YOU who caused the divide in public opinion!

Media: That’s absurd. We report on what is topical and in the public’s interest. We merely present different arguments objectively. Well, most of us do. The point is that we are giving the public what they want. We are not forcing anyone to read the article. Be that as it may, we are interviewing the Scientist. A person with clout and academic achievement. We have journalistic integrity. Yes! Scoff at that if you want to, but that is what we were taught. Objectivity is out field of expertise. If anyone is to blame then it is Social Media, where anyone can post ridiculous opinions.

Prosecutor: I put it to you, Social Media, that is was YOU who caused the divide in public opinion!

Social Media: The “western” concept of freedom is based on free speech. Everyone is allowed to form an opinion and I am just the facilitator of this basic right. If anyone is to blame it is this western delusion that everyone has this silly right to begin with. IQ isn’t empirical, but the average global IQ is 100 for goodness sake. Half of everyone are dimwits. Who ever thought it was a good idea that they should be free to say what they like? Power to the people? Democratic values? Bah!
 
Volumiza said:
Had my Moderna booster yesterday and have woken up with a dull but uncomfortable pain in the left hand side of my chest, just under my left nipple. Gets worse when I breath in. Could have just slept funny I guess but my minds racing.
Click to expand...
Muscle pain the following day is quite common. The location is more likely to be because your mind's racing than anything else. That said - don't exercise through it or run through it, that doesn't help, whatever it is. Generally speaking, your body wants a bit of a timeout to work on this infection that keeps coming back. A quiet day and a paracetamol or an ibuprofen is more help.

Hopefully you'll start feeling better tomorrow.
 
P-Ro said:
I imagine it will give some people in your team the confidence to drop out as well if they are like you and do not feel comfortable.
Click to expand...
One dropped out straight after I did. The other 6 are going ahead and have joined up with the stragglers from the other lab. 10 of them in all.

To me it seems silly, although I haven’t said as such. I’m just writing them their cards and am putting some money in each of them for them to spend, I do want them to have a good time but I’m having Christmas dinner with my two very elderly aunties this year and can’t see the point in risking passing them anything.

We run PCR tests at our facility for all staff 3 x per week and are running a test before everyone goes out for this meal but it surprises me when I’m hearing some very intelligent and well educated people saying ‘we’ll have had a test so we’ll know if we’re ok to go out’. Ok, so they may not be passing each other covid, but what’s to stop them catching it while out?
 
jojojo said:
Muscle pain the following day is quite common. The location is more likely to be because your mind's racing than anything else. That said - don't exercise through it or run through it, that doesn't help, whatever it is. Generally speaking, your body wants a bit of a timeout to work on this infection that keeps coming back. A quiet day and a paracetamol or an ibuprofen is more help.

Hopefully you'll start feeling better tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I won’t be exercising through it, been a rough week, I had a large gluten flare up last week (I have Celiac disease), my flu jab and now this and I feel like a 100 year old shipwreck :lol:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.