It would only be a temporary measure, until they’ve sorted themselves out, plus a lot of things can be done remotely now anyway, so it’s not as if we're cutting ourselves off totally.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
I'm not sure we're “taking vaccines off other countries”. Plus, this would only be an extension of what we are already doing with the “red list”, it’s just being more proactive because it’s clear that by the time these new variants are identified it’s already too late to stop travel from there.Bit harsh for the West to take vaccines off these countries, using them instead for their own boosters, and soon no doubt another round of boosters; and then punish these countries for ”not having a good handle on Covid”
We got the Omikron variant in Austria now too. Do we know anything specific about it? Does it have higher immunity to the vaccines? Does it spread quicker? Is it more dangerous?
As someone living in one of those places that hasn't "sorted themselves out", I find it pretty rich when people from other countries who clearly haven't sorted themselves out either propose targeted isolation. But, all good. I'd say the same, you lucky bastard.
Ok, “keeping them all for ourselvsies” then, we’ve even been hoarding whilst countries have had little to even give first doses.
I agree that is wrong
From what I’ve gathered - yes, yes, not clear yet
To be fair, thats mainly based on what I’ve read on here, and tweet threads linked from here - it’s better than the BBC
I agree that it may be too early to say with certainty on any of the questions, these are just the impressions I’ve got.Bit harsh for the West to take vaccines off these countries, using them instead for their own boosters, and soon no doubt another round of boosters; and then punish these countries for ”not having a good handle on Covid”
Again you're making a point that's in direct contradiction with the relevant facts of the case. South Africa aren't struggling to vaccinate their population because they're struggling for supplies. Just recently they deferred supplies from Pfizer.
Source
Unfortunately some problems are more complicated than your misinformed quips.
Just what we need, another variant.
This is true, but there is also a case to be made that if we had more vaccines at the start then more would've been vaccinated. As time passes, more and more people are infecting others with their pseudo-science in SA. Also, our booster shot drive would've started by now if we had gotten it earlier.
That would include the UK then. Most cases in Europe and a history of propagating new variants.
Anyway, can't help but feel we are overreacting to this new variant. It's not the first and it wont be the last, and we don't know if its actually that dangerous or not. The world can't keep shutting down every time it mutates.
In other news Scotland and Wales have proposed an 8 day quarantine for all arrivals, fine for them as nobody wants to go there anyway. England should rightly tell them to sod off.
Yeah it came out fairly soon after I started to panic that Ireland and the Common Travel Area were ok. So long as nothing else changes between now and Thursday we should be fine!
After how South Africa's been treated after blowing the whistle on Omicron, other countries would do well to put the lid on any new variant popping up in their region. Shameful behaviour from the rest of the world, to be honest. I mean, the Belgian case hadn't even been close to SA, yet they're the ones being singled out for blocked flights for daring to report data.
To be honest nobody cried when everyone called one of the previous one the Kent variant. All this fuss over this ‘South African variant’ seems a bit daft.
If the worst thing about it already is others using the incorrect name then that’s a plus
If the worst thing about it already is others using the incorrect name then that’s a plus
SA don't care about it being called the "Southern African variant". We care about the reaction of the world after the reporting of the variant.
I seriously don’t get this “after the way SA have been treated” narrative. What are countries supposed to do? Just say feck it - let it in!? Nobody on this forum moaned about the U.K. being stuck on everyone’s red list after Alpha was discovered - why this outcry now?
Of course they're gonna be treated the way they have, its a killer disease. We can't hug em and welcome them with open arms. Its nothing personal.
Sheesh. Close the borders. Stop the flights. Yes. But at least offer some assistance or support while you're at it.
The reaction is because of how precariously balanced everything is with the delta variant right now. The last thing any country in Europe needs right now is an accelerant to the current surge. I’m sure there would be a more measured response if the same thing happens again next summer.
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Why only SA though? The one in Belgium who had it had been to Egypt and Turkey, yet flights from there aren't being stopped.
The only thing this is going to lead to is that when we get a new variant that turns out to be more deadly, then nobody's going to want to report it out of fear of becoming a global pariah, and as such it'll be rampant before the scientific community gets wind of it.
By all means, close borders once a new variants pop up, but don't only to it to the country that reported it, do it to all the countries that have cases, otherwise it's just a (poor) PR exercise and not really bound to stop the variant coming in to the country, is it?
That’s the uncomfortable debate. Countries, not just the west by the way, that can afford to buy them and also have the companies / governments that produce them shouldn’t really have to suffer. Yes helping poorer countries out would also help as the world being vaccinated reduces the likely hood of variants. But you can’t give away what you yourself have to purchase and forcing say Botswana government to spend x amount of gdp on vaccines and getting involved in trying to convince its population to get vaccinated is pretty colonialist and won’t go down well here or in those countries.Bit harsh for the West to take vaccines off these countries, using them instead for their own boosters, and soon no doubt another round of boosters; and then punish these countries for ”not having a good handle on Covid”
So really the only option is close borders to high risk unvaxxed countries. If we can do it or consider doing it to people within our countries no reason why we can’t do it to countries
How do you know that isn’t happening? The SA Government are complaining about the closing of borders and asking for them to be reopened - not lack of support - unless I’ve missed something?
Because it’s literally only been 4 days since this thing was discovered - and SA is the country that first found it due to cases rising dramatically out of nowhere? Slightly different to one person possibly picking it up in Belgium/Egypt or Turkey isn’t it? The fact it seems to already be in many countries is new information only discovered since testing began. They’ve now stated all arrivals have to quarantine regardless of where you’re travelling from. It’s an evolving situation obviously. No, it won’t stop it but even if it only buys an extra week to learn more then it absolutely is the right thing to do. Or we can look at the ridiculously steep exponential curve in SA likely to be of a new highly transmissible variant that could bypass the vaccines and think feck it - let’s do nothing - it’s going to get here anyway at some point so why bother.
100%. This new variant was first reported in South Africa and countries shut off access to and from there to stop it spreading. If it had been first reported in Argentina or Russia, the same action would have been taken. Why is this an issue? I just don’t understand it either.
It is ridiculous, but on that flip side if it was first reported in the USA would countries have been so quick to ban flights? And if it was reported first in the U.K. and the USA quickly banned flights there’d be some of us playing the “we’ve been wronged card”
I do understand the concerns that other countries might be less willing to come forward as a result but really don’t think they have a choice. It would seem like madness to allow packed daily flights in and out of the epicentre of this new outbreak anyway.
Yeah I think it could’ve helped accelerate things but I’m not sure there’s much evidence to suggest it would’ve increased the total number vaccinated in the long run. When public distrust in authority is so low, for legitimate reasons, a huge public health initiative like this is always going to be an uphill task. Even with 2x as many people vaccinated, there would still be a strong possibility of another variant like this popping up.
So the idea that vaccine hoarding = new variant in South Africa is ridiculous from start to finish. They’re two entirely separate issues.
All the same things were said about the Kent variant last year. The WHO said there’s little evidence that closing borders is a net positive. The UK scientific community said countries shouldn’t be punished for being diligent in their sequencing. The politicians did their politicking.
It’s weird that people are acting as if this unusual and unfair given the situation is so similar. Yes it hurts economies when borders are closed, and yes the data on whether that’s a good choice is ambiguous. But it’s a foregone conclusion it’s going to happen given the political nature of these things, the governments have to show they’re taking hard but necessary actions to protect the public, public health comes first, etc etc.
Also just last week South Africa asked Johnson & Johnson to stop sending vaccines saying it had enough. The vaccination rate is really down to the government and people.
South Africa Asks J&J, Pfizer to Stop Sending Vaccines
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...j-j-pfizer-vaccine-delivery-delay-news24-says
South Africa Asks J&J, Pfizer to Stop Sending Vaccines
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...j-j-pfizer-vaccine-delivery-delay-news24-says
People did complain about it being called the Kent variant. Then they complained about it being called the India variant. It’s because of those complaints they switched to the neutral names of Alpha, Delta, etc.
Does this mean you're au fait with rules?
After any advice.Person in household tested positive by PCR Saturday so I went for PCR and had negative result/ok today.
Kept completely separate since (one up, one down), I'm also double jabbed.
Live in Wales, I'm due to fly to Sweden tomorrow, know of any reason I can't? From Govt websites, I think I'm ok as suggests self isolation not needed due to double jabbed (never mind a negative PCR) but can't find anything definitive re overseas travel
@Deery .. as you in convo too
Didn`t China complain in the beginning when Trump called it the China virus? Seems a long time ago .
What do you expect the rest of the world to do?
Fairly sure the US blocked flights from the UK last year.
CNN reported that SA is unhappy because flights were banned without offering any support. In our country the prez said it's some kind of Afrocentric racism. The latter is just ridiculous.
But, SA is feeling very vulnerable at the moment, which is completely understandable. Some wish we never reported the virus to the WHO. This is also madness, obviously, but I don't blame these people for feeling that way. We have been ostracized, and rightly so. But, you know - a little "we will help you fight this, here are some ventilators, etc" would've gone a long way. Diplomacy has gone to shit. It's every country for itself. This, of course, comes on the back of the west hoarding vaccinations.
That wasn't so nice, was it? Nothing happens in a vacuum. To suddenly blame SA for overreacting is a bit trite.
I don't think it's racism, more that SA isn't that important economically to those countries so it's easier to pull up the drawbridge.
All blabber aside, will Cyril keep things at Level 1 until *checks calendar* January 10?
Should the countries who introduced an immediate travel ban on the UK after the Kent variant have offered them something to compensate for that?
Yes, understood. SA isn't important to the world. But our economy is important to us.
The world didn't stop UK from getting vaccines now, did it?