You really are or this is my (lack of?) german humor kicking in?
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
You really are or this is my (lack of?) german humor kicking in?
Haha no I can’t work those people out, or at least I can’t work out many of the reasons they give. They don’t make sense
But that's exactly what they are all about
What questions? Someone died from a known but incredibly rare side effect. We know. Given the alternative is huge piles of dead bodies and a collapsed health system and economy vaccination is a no-bainer. Ironic given the through processes (or lack thereof) of anti-vaxxers.
Good luck regulating or forbidding a virus.
And how the average human reacts must be about the worst criteria for deciding anything ever.
Maybe they were never logical to start with?
Oh, for feck sake. What baseless drivel.
We're around 10 months into vaccination with said vaccines and I'm surprised this is your conclusion, honestly. Every statistic there is shows how effective the vaccines work and how minor the side effects generally are and how rare major side effects occur, especially compared to the alternative - an infection with corona.
Not to mention that research shows there’s a higher chance of clots or strokes as a side effect of catching covid.
https://bbc.in/3zlFy27?fbclid=IwAR3UgT2fsMRUmQlhq6Bo50IcvVgEXLzQITdMBVtYEQwy0pEtmQ2aeSNlm38
https://bbc.in/3zlFy27?fbclid=IwAR3UgT2fsMRUmQlhq6Bo50IcvVgEXLzQITdMBVtYEQwy0pEtmQ2aeSNlm38
Interesting. Considering we can’t forbid COVID, I would be very interested in your views on better regulation for it. By that I’m assuming what you mean that we should have restrictions and lockdowns in place indefinitely rather than using this vaccine approach?
@Wibble
You have recourse to argumentum ad hominem but I am perfectly fine with that because I sometimes do the same!
The general public is provided with some vaccine efficacy rates that are quite high (sometimes near 100%).
I know the vaccines are effective in real life but I can see that:
- some lockdowns in highly-vaccinated countries
- people now recommend a 3rd dose
The problem is so complex, multi-dimensional and new that it is maybe an impossible task in the short run to really assess the vaccine effect.
I just invite people to be more intellectually humble when it comes to analysing stats
You have recourse to argumentum ad hominem but I am perfectly fine with that because I sometimes do the same!
The general public is provided with some vaccine efficacy rates that are quite high (sometimes near 100%).
I know the vaccines are effective in real life but I can see that:
- some lockdowns in highly-vaccinated countries
- people now recommend a 3rd dose
The problem is so complex, multi-dimensional and new that it is maybe an impossible task in the short run to really assess the vaccine effect.
I just invite people to be more intellectually humble when it comes to analysing stats
@Wibble
You have recourse to argumentum ad hominem but I am perfectly fine with that because I sometimes do the same!
The general public is provided with some vaccine efficacy rates that are quite high (sometimes near 100%).
I know the vaccines are effective in real life but I can see that:
- some lockdowns in highly-vaccinated countries
- people now recommend a 3rd dose
The problem is so complex, multi-dimensional and new that it is maybe an impossible task in the short run to really assess the vaccine effect.
I just invite people to be more intellectually humble when it comes to analysing stats
At its most basic the vaccine is to stop deaths and hospitalisation so why don’t you start with those stats too assess its effectiveness?
I do not have any recommendations to make.
My only wish is a regulation is a regulation that guarantees basic human rights.
Even if we both know nothing on the matter, I would need to know your definition of "effectiveness" before thinking about the opportunity (or not) to answer your question.
To prevent deaths and hospitalisation, of which we can see they are very effective at.
They are effective but we still have a lot of things to learn about the degree of efficacy.
Think I will stop to post on this topic because my views are not interesting, and I have nothing to add
Great news in Denmark where the government have now announced that on 10th September Covid-19 will now longer be classed as a risk to society.
Thailand, Singapore, more and more countries moving rightfully in the endemic phase.
Just in time for my Copenhagen half marathon on 19th Sept too
Thailand, Singapore, more and more countries moving rightfully in the endemic phase.
Just in time for my Copenhagen half marathon on 19th Sept too
Great news in Denmark where the government have now announced that on 10th September Covid-19 will now longer be classed as a risk to society.
Thailand, Singapore, more and more countries moving rightfully in the endemic phase.
Just in time for my Copenhagen half marathon on 19th Sept too
Aren't we still in the middle of a pandemic? With around 700-800k reported cases per day worldwide, "endemic" sounds like an euphemism.
Logic and antivax are mutually exclusive.
I'm a pro vaccine guy but my family isn't.
They are showing articles such as 63% of people who have died after February are vaccinated individuals. This was apparently said by health organisations etc.
Makes me worried.
They are showing articles such as 63% of people who have died after February are vaccinated individuals. This was apparently said by health organisations etc.
Makes me worried.
About the status of their mental health or about the vaccines?
Does a runny nose require you to book a covid test? I have a slightly runny nose but feel absolutely fine but my mates are giving me grief because I should get tested apparently.
It's true that the vaccines aren't perfect - but they are doing a great job. The older you are the more likely covid is to kill you. Almost all the over 80s in the UK are vaxxed. What that does is reduce the odds of them dying, it doesn't remove the possibility - a vaxxed 90 year old has roughly the same risk as an unvaxxed 60 year old for example.
In terms of where we were though, and looking at each age group in turn - what the numbers say is that you're ten times more likely to die of covid if you're unvaxxed.
If you're young that improves your odds from unlikely, to really unlikely. If you're very old it moves you from extremely vulnerable to vulnerable.
You can see how things have changed if you look at how the ratio between cases, hospitalisations and deaths have changed since the Christmas/January wave:
If you are wondering if that just means that Delta is less dangerous - then the answer is apparently not, it looks at least as dangerous when it meets unvaxxed people as the January Alpha version was.
Lets say we have 10,000 people and 80% of them are vaccinated.
Now let’s say that 100 people die from coronavirus and 63% of them vaccinated.
That leaves 37% of people who died unvaccinated.
As there are 2,000 people unvaccinated and 37 of them have died, that gives you a (37/2000)*100 chance of dying if you are unvaccinated: 1.85%
As there are 8,000 people vaccinated and 63 of them have died, that gives you a (63/8000)*100 chance of dying if you are vaccinated: 0.7875%
Do you see the problem with that statistic and what it is actually hiding?
The statistic you quote sounds totally wrong. This is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-941fcf43d9731c76c16e7354f5d5e187
Maybe it refers to deaths in general across the total population? Which would make sense since we focused on vaccinating the elderly first.
think there’s some colds going about, developed a sore throat yesterday and feel a bit bunged up today. I done a lateral flow one last night and it was negative.
Not sure if posted, but this MMWR report is fascinating and real world proof of how distancing works and how not wearing a mask can have dangerous consequences.
mm7035e2 Outbreak Associated with SARS-CoV-2 B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant in an Elementary School — Marin County, California, May–June 2021 (cdc.gov)
mm7035e2 Outbreak Associated with SARS-CoV-2 B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant in an Elementary School — Marin County, California, May–June 2021 (cdc.gov)
If that figure of 63% is for all deaths, then it makes sense. With something like 95% of people over 70 vaccinated, then that will happen, given life expectancy is about 75. Basically they are expected to be the people who are dying, like they always have been doing. Just now 9 out of 10 of them are vaccinated. The stat seems to imply there's something inherently wrong with that or that the vaccination is a cause rather than a common factor in everyone in that age range.
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Had to go to A&E today to get antibiotics for an infected bite.
I could not believe that there was a section of the waiting room with COVID positive patients. It wasn’t clearly marked and I’d say there with another patient before we were told and we both got up hastily.
Through my 3 hour wait, we saw Covid positive patients sat there as doctored that saw them were in full PPE and then people went and sat with them and the staff did feck all about it.
An absolute shambles - I’m going to write a complaint to the hospital because that has to be an absolute disaster.
I could not believe that there was a section of the waiting room with COVID positive patients. It wasn’t clearly marked and I’d say there with another patient before we were told and we both got up hastily.
Through my 3 hour wait, we saw Covid positive patients sat there as doctored that saw them were in full PPE and then people went and sat with them and the staff did feck all about it.
An absolute shambles - I’m going to write a complaint to the hospital because that has to be an absolute disaster.
My footy mate is 60, type B diabetes and a covid vax denier. He was adamant governments were targeting Pakistanis/Indians for something or another. Even by calling the latest variant the "Indian" variant before going with Delta. He was too wise for their games with this vaccination.
I did what I could to warn him months ago, I relayed the case of my daughter and wife going through long covid if he didn't believe the media and wanted first hand experience. His mind was not to be changed.
I have received a text from another friend that he is now in ICU.
I hope he pulls through as we share many good tournament memories. Bebe, don't be my mate.https://old.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/
Page after page of "freedom fighters" dying needless deaths. It makes me angry but also genuinely upset that they can be that deluded and die for no reason.
Page after page of "freedom fighters" dying needless deaths. It makes me angry but also genuinely upset that they can be that deluded and die for no reason.
My footy mate is 60, type B diabetes and a covid vax denier. He was adamant governments were targeting Pakistanis/Indians for something or another. Even by calling the latest variant the "Indian" variant before going with Delta. He was too wise for their games with this vaccination.
I did what I could to warn him months ago, I relayed the case of my daughter and wife going through long covid if he didn't believe the media and wanted first hand experience. His mind was not to be changed.
I have received a text from another friend that he is now in ICU.
I'm sorry to hear about your mate.
I agree, I want the vaccine. We just live in a very social media intense era and the worst of all is that its not kids that are influenced- it's more the 60 year old dad's and mum's that seem to be by their Facebooks and what not.
CIA ran a fake vaccine programme in Pakistan to map DNA in the Hunt for bin Laden. Surely fueled vaccine hesitancy among people from the region.My footy mate is 60, type B diabetes and a covid vax denier. He was adamant governments were targeting Pakistanis/Indians for something or another. Even by calling the latest variant the "Indian" variant before going with Delta. He was too wise for their games with this vaccination.
I did what I could to warn him months ago, I relayed the case of my daughter and wife going through long covid if he didn't believe the media and wanted first hand experience. His mind was not to be changed.
I have received a text from another friend that he is now in ICU.
I think it's the other way round. Illogical people become anti-vaxxers.
If everyone's vaccinated, 100% of the people who die will have been vaccinated.
Vaccinated people still die of all kinds of stuff. It doesnt make you immortal.
Not sure about that. I’ve seen people I’ve considered perfectly normal go off the rails in regards to vaccines
The stats sound strange. In Singapore, we have just passed 80% vaccination rate. In the kat month, about 15 people or so have passed away. Only one was fully vaccinated, and he was a 80-90 year old senior with several other health issues. The data is very clearly showing that vaccines work.
There are a lot of people abusing the stats at the moment - basically to mislead people who are nervous about the vaccines or who think that they don't need one. The UK stats basically look like this:
In others words - if you're over 50, you're 11 x as likely to be hospitalised or to die if you're unvaxxed compared to a vaxxed person of the same age. Just for the sake of putting some easy numbers on that - if you had 24 million people in that age-group, you could say 22million vaxxed people will have the same number of deaths as that remaining 2million unvaxxed.
In the UK vaccine takeup is high.
The thing is, if you have 23m vaxxed, using those same odds, they'll have more deaths than the 1 million of the group who remain unvaxxed. In the UK, the 50+ group are 95%+ vaccinated - so we're not far off that 23m v 1m story in the over 50s and there's a good chance that deaths amongst vaxxed people in that age group will be higher than amongst the unvaxxed. So, I don't know where the 63% headline came from, but it's probably not an outright lie - it's just a number open to massive misunderstanding and deliberate misuse.
Individual odds don't change - you're still 11x better off with the vaccine than without it. But con artists who like using numbers to confuse people, can throw out a headline and scare people who see it think it means that vaccines don't work or even that they leave you worse off.
Incidentally those calculations, for the under 50s - say you're 12x better off vaxxed than unvaxxed. The vaccine impact is visible across the age groups.
Here in NZ we have had our first confirmed vaccination death. We are using the Pfizer vaccine. So far we have just over 1 million people who are fully vaccinated with 2 doses of the vaccine. We have had 3 million people who have had at least 1 dose of the vaccine.
We have had in total 3464 cases of Covid and that has given us 26 deaths in total.
Get vaccinated people, the numbers paint a very clear picture.
We have had in total 3464 cases of Covid and that has given us 26 deaths in total.
Get vaccinated people, the numbers paint a very clear picture.