SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[LazyRed-Ninja]

But there are lots of examples of previously fit and healthy people with no pre condition dying or getting long covid. Plenty of examples.

natural immune system will not beat this without help. You are spreading dangerous nonsense

I've never stated that healthy people dont die, nor would i ever make such a claim. The twitter image was meant to discuss the topic of natural immunization through infection and immunization through vaccination. I've also said that statistically the overwhelming majority of the corona deaths are elderly with underlying health conditions. I've never claimed that healthy people can not die.

COVID-19 deaths with underlying health conditions
Figures for COVID-19 deaths with underlying health conditions are available on Table 5 of the above publication. Main pre-existing causes are grouped using the ONS Leading Causes of Deaths list and International Classification of Disease version 10 blocks of causes.

• With pre-existing condition: England and Wales - 45,859
• With pre-existing condition: England - 43,640
• With pre-existing condition: Wales -- 2156

full article (25 november, 2020): COVID-19 deaths broken down by underlying health condition - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk)

I would also never spread information from unreliable sources or untrustworhy figures to stirr misinformation. If that twitter image is considered as such, i will then consider it as an advice to myself to be more critical of the images i post. Hope that clears it up!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

In science, all we can do is to test the formulated premises with neccesary criteria in order to derive theories that suit the current available data. It's not about revealing 'insightful' information per se (that is the point where i would respectfully disagree with you).

It's about discussing data which has been researched and conclusions that are formed by people/institutions more qualified then us. You've mentioned that 'we can do it vaccinated or as immune naive cases'. The WHO scientific brief of may 2021, the Pre Paper of the bioRxiv study and the Reuters article were sources i mentioned specifically about this topic. I've presented a perspective based on the results of that study which entails:

'We conclude that memory antibodies selected over time by natural infection have greater potency and breadth than antibodies elicited by vaccination. These results suggest that boosting vaccinated individuals with currently available mRNA vaccines would produce a quantitative increase in plasma neutralizing activity but not the qualitative advantage against variants obtained by vaccinating convalescent individuals. (bioRxiv).

Note, this is not convincing evidence in the sense that it is peer reviewed, this pandemic is still 'young' and new data will more likely then not become more available during the course of this pandemic. it would be unscientific to present this as an 'absolute' fact, hence the little note here.

I fully agree that as a public health strategy there are severe complications which result from lockdowns, such as increased mental health, child abuse/drug and alcohol abuse etc.Lockdowns come with a deadly cost and implementing it as a public healthy strategy when its more likely then not that Corona is here to stay is a serious violation of one's self determination and right to live life. This opens up another discussion in itself, in regards to sacrifying 'values' of one's self for the greater good, the societal risk.

I also respectfully disagree that i'm obscuring a public health reality. I've cited WHO and the bioRxiv Pre Paper and a Reuters article as sources to discuss a specific topic, which is immunity through natural infection and vacciniation. I do find it interesting that you described the public health as a 'bit of crap strategy'. Does that mean you disagree with it? Or does that mean you agree with it and the effects of lockdown are simply collateral damage for the greater good?

In the end, i see this situation as an immune vs not immune situation, and those who are immune compromised should take the vaccine. Those (healthy individuals) who want to naturally recover should have the right to do so, unless there is significant data to substantiate that natural immunation through infection is a significantrisk for one's self and others. Hence why i requested studies or articles specifically about this, so that i can research them in order to increase my knowledge about it.

Appreciate the conversation!

Here you go. Read this. Now I’ve previously shared multiple peer reviewed articles with you. On here and via PM and you’re giving the impression of not reading any of them. If you’re going to pretend to be open-minded and curious then you really need to do us all a favour and actually make an effort to read the evidence you keep asking for.

This study uses age-specific COVID-19-associated death data from 45 countries and the results of 22 seroprevalence studies to investigate the consistency of infection and fatality patterns across multiple countries. This is seriously robust data.

Here’s the most relevant graph (although, obviously, you need to read the full article to understand it properly).

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2918-0/figures/2

These are infection fatality rates. The IFR is the most conservative possible way to assess mortality. Case fatality rates (CFR) can overestimate mortality because they don’t consider asymptomatic cases or cases so mild they don’t go and get tested.

As you can see from the graph you chance of being killed outright by covid is about 1 in 10000 from the age of about 20. This increases to about 1 in 1000 by the age of 40. And so on. That’s the risk you take if you choose immunity via infection. And that’s just using death as an end point. Not considering hospitalisation (which is absolutely fecking miserable, believe me) or long covid, or even shitty but minor consequences like permanently losing or altering your sense of taste or smell.

Can you imagine how absolutely fecked the world would be if vaccines killed 1 in 1000 of all the 40 year old who got them? Or how about putting much higher numbers than that in hospital? Or leaving them feeling like shit for months and years afterwards? Or permanently messing with taste/smell?

Well you can only imagine because the vaccines would never have been licensed if they were as damaging to your health as covid. Having been licensed, extensive follow up surveillance in millions and millions of people have confirmed they are absolutely fecking MILES safer than infection with covid. And we may still be waiting for the really long term safety data but we’re also waiting for the long term data on infection with the novel coronavirus SARS-COV-2 (and we already now that there are definite medium term adverse effects thanks to the millions of people suffering with long covid)

To prattle on about preprints which show that covid infection might have slightly increased duration of effect than vaccines (assuming nobody ever gets vaccine boosters) as a reason to choose this method of immunity over vaccination is so spectacularly wrong-headed I find myself repeatedly wondering if you really are entering this discussion as open-minded as you claim to be.

And now I’m annoyed at myself for replying to you again….

 

[LazyRed-Ninja]

Here you go. Read this. Now I’ve previously shared multiple peer reviewed articles with you. On here and via PM and you’re giving the impression of not reading any of them. If you’re going to pretend to be open-minded and curious then you really need to do us all a favour and actually make an effort to read the evidence you keep asking for.

This study uses age-specific COVID-19-associated death data from 45 countries and the results of 22 seroprevalence studies to investigate the consistency of infection and fatality patterns across multiple countries. This is seriously robust data.

Here’s the most relevant graph (although, obviously, you need to read the full article to understand it properly).

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2918-0/figures/2

These are infection fatality rates. The IFR is the most conservative possible way to assess mortality. Case fatality rates (CFR) can overestimate mortality because they don’t consider asymptomatic cases or cases so mild they don’t go and get tested.

As you can see from the graph you chance of being killed outright by covid is about 1 in 10000 from the age of about 20. This increases to about 1 in 1000 by the age of 40. And so on. That’s the risk you take if you choose immunity via infection. And that’s just using death as an end point. Not considering hospitalisation (which is absolutely fecking miserable, believe me) or long covid, or even shitty but minor consequences like permanently losing or altering your sense of taste or smell.

Can you imagine how absolutely fecked the world would be if vaccines killed 1 in 1000 of all the 40 year old who got them? Or how about putting much higher numbers than that in hospital? Or leaving them feeling like shit for months and years afterwards? Or permanently messing with taste/smell?

Well you can only imagine because the vaccines would never have been licensed if they were as damaging to your health as covid. Having been licensed, extensive follow up surveillance in millions and millions of people have confirmed they are absolutely fecking MILES safer than infection with covid. And we may still be waiting for the really long term safety data but we’re also waiting for the long term data on infection with the novel coronavirus SARS-COV-2 (and we already now that there are definite medium term adverse effects thanks to the millions of people suffering with long covid)

To prattle on about preprints which show that covid infection might have slightly increased duration of effect than vaccines (assuming nobody ever gets vaccine boosters) as a reason to choose this method of immunity over vaccination is so spectacularly wrong-headed I find myself repeatedly wondering if you really are entering this discussion as open-minded as you claim to be.

And now I’m annoyed at myself for replying to you again….

Im going to read those links! I'd invite you at the weekly zoom calls me and group (including some medical students) have, where these subjects are being discussed, but i think we'd be annoyed at your attempt at speaking dutch... (little bit of banter here) all jokes aside, im going to read that link and give my two cents about it when ready!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Im going to read those links! I'd invite you at the weekly zoom calls me and group (including some medical students) have, where these subjects are being discussed, but i think we'd be annoyed at your attempt at speaking dutch... (little bit of banter here) all jokes aside, im going to read that link and give my two cents about it when ready!

To be fair, I couldn’t even attempt to speak Dutch!

 

[The Boy]

No idea re your question but how could they go off and leave their daughter? I wouldn’t be able to if one of my sons was sick

As I said earlier I probably made it sound worse than it is. She is symptomless and spends lots of time at ours anyway, so having her stay for a week would not be weird, my daughter spends loads of time at hers and vice versa.

Anyway it’s a moot point as they decided not to go as they have to isolate as she is positive. I wouldn’t want people thinking they were heartless fecks leaving their very ill daughter with strangers, while they piss it up for days on end!

 

[JP77]

Went on holiday last week with my kids and missus and got pinged to self isolate two days after being back on Sunday. There were a few people trying to talk me into deleting the NHS track and trace app before I went but I stuck to my gut instincts and didn’t and so happy I didn’t.

got the notification Sunday morning, daughter started feeling rough on Monday too and then I started feeling rubbish on Wednesday. Did a test yesterday morning at home and it was positive. A pcr for me and my daughter both positive yesterday as well, pretty sure she’s picked it up in Yarmouth when we went away and then I’ve caught it off of her because of how close we are. Missus and son so far are negative and fine.Honestly think this is the worst I’ve felt in recent memory, feel like I’ve been hit by a truck, entire body aching like crazy, hot, throat terrible, headache, aching in my back and kidney, blocked up like crazy, chest on a mad one. Thankfully feels like my daughter is just beggining to get the upper hand on it slightly but I feel dreadful today.

Just so happy I stuck to my guns and kept the app because without it I would have been around my missus mum, potentially my mum and would have been at work up until I felt rough on Wednesday/today and did a test which means I could have passed it on to all sorts of people. Could never have lived with myself if I had passed it to somebody else especially a vulnerable person like my mum or somebody vulnerable at work but without the app notifying me I had been in contact with somebody it would have been too late and without a doubt I would have passed it on to somebody. No idea where my daughter caught it or if I caught it from her or with her on holiday but seems quite likely she caught it on holiday and I caught it off of her considering the timelines.

long story short, trust your gut, don’t listen to idiots and continue to take everything serious. I know some people get it without hardly any symptoms but on a honest level it’s knocked me for six.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Went on holiday last week with my kids and missus and got pinged to self isolate two days after being back on Sunday. There were a few people trying to talk me into deleting the NHS track and trace app before I went but I stuck to my gut instincts and didn’t and so happy I didn’t.

got the notification Sunday morning, daughter started feeling rough on Monday too and then I started feeling rubbish on Wednesday. Did a test yesterday morning at home and it was positive. A pcr for me and my daughter both positive yesterday as well, pretty sure she’s picked it up in Yarmouth when we went away and then I’ve caught it off of her because of how close we are. Missus and son so far are negative and fine.Honestly think this is the worst I’ve felt in recent memory, feel like I’ve been hit by a truck, entire body aching like crazy, hot, throat terrible, headache, aching in my back and kidney, blocked up like crazy, chest on a mad one. Thankfully feels like my daughter is just beggining to get the upper hand on it slightly but I feel dreadful today.

Just so happy I stuck to my guns and kept the app because without it I would have been around my missus mum, potentially my mum and would have been at work up until I felt rough on Wednesday/today and did a test which means I could have passed it on to all sorts of people. Could never have lived with myself if I had passed it to somebody else especially a vulnerable person like my mum or somebody vulnerable at work but without the app notifying me I had been in contact with somebody it would have been too late and without a doubt I would have passed it on to somebody. No idea where my daughter caught it or if I caught it from her or with her on holiday but seems quite likely she caught it on holiday and I caught it off of her considering the timelines.

long story short, trust your gut, don’t listen to idiots and continue to take everything serious. I know some people get it without hardly any symptoms but on a honest level it’s knocked me for six.

Thanks for sharing. Hope you’re feeling better soon!

 

[Penna]

Tell them to do one. What shitty parents leave their 9 year old with someone else while they go on holiday? I don't think a post on here has ever wound me up as much as this one.

It's terrible! "Sorry daughter, we love you and all that but ...."

 

[fergies coat]

It's terrible! "Sorry daughter, we love you and all that but ...."

Under no circumstance do you leave one child behind while the rest of you go on a holiday.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Question for the clever folk in this thread....

My 9 year old daughter has just tested positive, her sister (11) and my wife and I (in our 40s) are still negative. But her best friend has also tested positive and that family were due to go on holiday tomorrow, obviously she can not go but the others have all tested negative and have asked us if their positive daughter can come and stay with us while they go on holiday! Are we increasing our risk at all by having 2 rather than 1 positive person in the house? we are both double vaccinated.

Are you fecking serious!!
cnuts

 

[Stanley Road]

OP, I think you have your answer

 

[Carolina Red]

Question for the clever folk in this thread....

My 9 year old daughter has just tested positive, her sister (11) and my wife and I (in our 40s) are still negative. But her best friend has also tested positive and that family were due to go on holiday tomorrow, obviously she can not go but the others have all tested negative and have asked us if their positive daughter can come and stay with us while they go on holiday! Are we increasing our risk at all by having 2 rather than 1 positive person in the house? we are both double vaccinated.

Politely, but firmly, tell them to go feck themselves.

 

[LazyRed-Ninja]

Here you go. Read this. Now I’ve previously shared multiple peer reviewed articles with you. On here and via PM and you’re giving the impression of not reading any of them. If you’re going to pretend to be open-minded and curious then you really need to do us all a favour and actually make an effort to read the evidence you keep asking for.

This study uses age-specific COVID-19-associated death data from 45 countries and the results of 22 seroprevalence studies to investigate the consistency of infection and fatality patterns across multiple countries. This is seriously robust data.

Here’s the most relevant graph (although, obviously, you need to read the full article to understand it properly).

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2918-0/figures/2

These are infection fatality rates. The IFR is the most conservative possible way to assess mortality. Case fatality rates (CFR) can overestimate mortality because they don’t consider asymptomatic cases or cases so mild they don’t go and get tested.

As you can see from the graph you chance of being killed outright by covid is about 1 in 10000 from the age of about 20. This increases to about 1 in 1000 by the age of 40. And so on. That’s the risk you take if you choose immunity via infection. And that’s just using death as an end point. Not considering hospitalisation (which is absolutely fecking miserable, believe me) or long covid, or even shitty but minor consequences like permanently losing or altering your sense of taste or smell.

Can you imagine how absolutely fecked the world would be if vaccines killed 1 in 1000 of all the 40 year old who got them? Or how about putting much higher numbers than that in hospital? Or leaving them feeling like shit for months and years afterwards? Or permanently messing with taste/smell?

Well you can only imagine because the vaccines would never have been licensed if they were as damaging to your health as covid. Having been licensed, extensive follow up surveillance in millions and millions of people have confirmed they are absolutely fecking MILES safer than infection with covid. And we may still be waiting for the really long term safety data but we’re also waiting for the long term data on infection with the novel coronavirus SARS-COV-2 (and we already now that there are definite medium term adverse effects thanks to the millions of people suffering with long covid)

To prattle on about preprints which show that covid infection might have slightly increased duration of effect than vaccines (assuming nobody ever gets vaccine boosters) as a reason to choose this method of immunity over vaccination is so spectacularly wrong-headed I find myself repeatedly wondering if you really are entering this discussion as open-minded as you claim to be.

And now I’m annoyed at myself for replying to you again….

The graph uses the variable IFR, which is true. IFR'S are measured by the reported Covid deaths divided by the number of Covid deaths. You have mentioned that the chance of being killed outright by Covid is about 1 in 10.000 from the age of about 20. The graphic indicates a sligtly below 0.01% fatality rate for the woman and 0.01% for man in the category of young adults. The UK has rougly 4.200.000 young adults from that age category 20-24. If all of them got infected, that would result in 420 deaths going by the IFR of 0.01%. That is not really an overwhelming significant risk, is it? Am i wrong here? If so, why?

You also used the nature.com reference and since you have used that reference i will use the same website to propose the following quote. Your link is dated 2 november 2020. The article i will reference is from june 14, 2021. A year and some change later. The article states:

''The good news is that the evidence thus far predicts that infection with SARS-CoV-2 induces the long term immunity in most individuals. This provides a welcome positive note as we wait for further data on memory responses to vaccination''

Full article: A long-term perspective on immunity to COVID (nature.com)

Does that interpret as infection without vaccination? In my understanding it does. Do you have the same understanding?

Just to make clear, im not stating that immunity through infection is better then vaccination or vice versa. Im in the beginning stages of researching this subject, hence why i am going back and forth, considering you seem to be more visible in this thread and responding more then others.

 

[Snowjoe]

Under no circumstance do you leave one child behind while the rest of you go on a holiday.

My parents did that to me when I was in college because apparently I needed to study. Obviously I just spent the week getting blasted instead.

 

[golden_blunder]

Went on holiday last week with my kids and missus and got pinged to self isolate two days after being back on Sunday. There were a few people trying to talk me into deleting the NHS track and trace app before I went but I stuck to my gut instincts and didn’t and so happy I didn’t.

got the notification Sunday morning, daughter started feeling rough on Monday too and then I started feeling rubbish on Wednesday. Did a test yesterday morning at home and it was positive. A pcr for me and my daughter both positive yesterday as well, pretty sure she’s picked it up in Yarmouth when we went away and then I’ve caught it off of her because of how close we are. Missus and son so far are negative and fine.Honestly think this is the worst I’ve felt in recent memory, feel like I’ve been hit by a truck, entire body aching like crazy, hot, throat terrible, headache, aching in my back and kidney, blocked up like crazy, chest on a mad one. Thankfully feels like my daughter is just beggining to get the upper hand on it slightly but I feel dreadful today.

Just so happy I stuck to my guns and kept the app because without it I would have been around my missus mum, potentially my mum and would have been at work up until I felt rough on Wednesday/today and did a test which means I could have passed it on to all sorts of people. Could never have lived with myself if I had passed it to somebody else especially a vulnerable person like my mum or somebody vulnerable at work but without the app notifying me I had been in contact with somebody it would have been too late and without a doubt I would have passed it on to somebody. No idea where my daughter caught it or if I caught it from her or with her on holiday but seems quite likely she caught it on holiday and I caught it off of her considering the timelines.

long story short, trust your gut, don’t listen to idiots and continue to take everything serious. I know some people get it without hardly any symptoms but on a honest level it’s knocked me for six.

Hope you and your daughter make a quick, full recovery! Good luck fella. Glad you trusted your common sense re the app

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The graph uses the variable IFR, which is true. IFR'S are measured by the reported Covid deaths divided by the number of Covid deaths. You have mentioned that the chance of being killed outright by Covid is about 1 in 10.000 from the age of about 20. The graphic indicates a sligtly below 0.01% fatality rate for the woman and 0.01% for man in the category of young adults. The UK has rougly 4.200.000 young adults from that age category 20-24. If all of them got infected, that would result in 420 deaths going by the IFR of 0.01%. That is not really an overwhelming significant risk, is it? Am i wrong here? If so, why?

You also used the nature.com reference and since you have used that reference i will use the same website to propose the following quote. Your link is dated 2 november 2020. The article i will reference is from june 14, 2021. A year and some change later. The article states:

''The good news is that the evidence thus far predicts that infection with SARS-CoV-2 induces the long term immunity in most individuals. This provides a welcome positive note as we wait for further data on memory responses to vaccination''

Full article: A long-term perspective on immunity to COVID (nature.com)

Does that interpret as infection without vaccination? In my understanding it does. Do you have the same understanding?

Just to make clear, im not stating that immunity through infection is better then vaccination or vice versa. Im in the beginning stages of researching this subject, hence why i am going back and forth, considering you seem to be more visible in this thread and responding more then others.

Good. Because it isn’t. And our discussion is over. If you ever have any doubts about this, have a re-read of that article and what I just told you. The IFR for covid between 20 and 40 years old starts at 1 in 10,000 and gradually increases to 1 in 1000. If the death rate from any of these vaccines was anywhere near as high that they never would have been licensed.

This isn’t some ridiculous argument about what exactly is an acceptable number of young people to die from covid while trying to become immune. It’s about the fact they can achieve the same goal by a FAR less dangerous method.

 

[Balljy]

The graphic indicates a sligtly below 0.01% fatality rate for the woman and 0.01% for man in the category of young adults. The UK has rougly 4.200.000 young adults from that age category 20-24. If all of them got infected, that would result in 420 deaths going by the IFR of 0.01%. That is not really an overwhelming significant risk, is it? Am i wrong here? If so, why?

That's not a significant risk for that small age group of 4 years which you've some reason pointed out (which then increases in IFR as was originally stated up to 1 in 1,000 by the age of 40). The lower end of that brings vaccines into the debate, the mid to upper end of it makes it a no-brainer based on IFR.

 

[F-Red]

Im in the beginning stages of researching this subject,

18 months into the pandemic? Do me a favour.

 

[berbatrick]

The graph uses the variable IFR, which is true. IFR'S are measured by the reported Covid deaths divided by the number of Covid deaths. You have mentioned that the chance of being killed outright by Covid is about 1 in 10.000 from the age of about 20. The graphic indicates a sligtly below 0.01% fatality rate for the woman and 0.01% for man in the category of young adults. The UK has rougly 4.200.000 young adults from that age category 20-24. If all of them got infected, that would result in 420 deaths going by the IFR of 0.01%. That is not really an overwhelming significant risk, is it? Am i wrong here? If so, why?

death is not the only serious adverse outcome.
why are you focusing on 20-24 alone, they don't live on a separate island? hence, won't encouraging the rapid spread of the virus among one subpopulation also lead to vastly increased transmission among those younger and older than them, also, increased chance of mutation (and of course more death and long-term health issues).

Based on quick maths using 18-29 numbers from these sources (1 2, 2500 dead, 124633 admitted to hospital), it seems for every young dead, there are 50 young in hospitals, which means you are aspiring to 21,000 people in hospitals (not to mention others, more susceptible, getting it off them), which might be an "overwhelming significant risk". uk hospitalisation peak was 3500, your hope doesn't seem ideal!

e - updated a wrong link (1)

 

[LazyRed-Ninja]

18 months into the pandemic? Do me a favour.

fair enough

to answer that, I’m referring to the development of the immunesystem after vaccination. Vaccination didn’t start 18 months ago.

 

[LazyRed-Ninja]

I think the majority of people are what they call in our country ‘Corona tired’. New stories coming out every day while people are just trying to enjoy and live their lives.

Unfortunately this pandemic has impacted the world drastically. At some point, we just have to accept that Corona will more likely then not stay here for the long run. Im sure that goverments and medical institutions will have more data available as time goes by and that they will keep investing and developing in health protocols/procedures, vaccine technology etc.

 

[4bars]

It should be mandatory in places of health care. You can argue all the others if you like but in a medical facility it should be mandatory

Is enters in the cathegory that i said. You work in health care? Then you need the vaccine. You dont want to have it? Then you lose your job. You have the choice to find another job that accepts you without being vaccinated

Not mandatory, but your choices have consequences. The more restrictive, the more "mandatory it seems"

 

[stw2022]

Not sure it’s much different to thinking a surgeon shouldn’t be obliged to wash his hands before surgery. He’s free not to; he doesn’t have to be a surgeon.

Nobody has an entitlement to a job and preference against a vaccine isn’t a protected characteristic

 

[golden_blunder]

Thoughts on full houses at football matches etc again?

 

[mav_9me]

Thoughts on full houses at football matches etc again?

Source: https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loc..._medium=twitter&amp&__twitter_impression=true

Vaccines work.

 

[mav_9me]

Here you go. Read this. Now I’ve previously shared multiple peer reviewed articles with you. On here and via PM and you’re giving the impression of not reading any of them. If you’re going to pretend to be open-minded and curious then you really need to do us all a favour and actually make an effort to read the evidence you keep asking for.

This study uses age-specific COVID-19-associated death data from 45 countries and the results of 22 seroprevalence studies to investigate the consistency of infection and fatality patterns across multiple countries. This is seriously robust data.

Here’s the most relevant graph (although, obviously, you need to read the full article to understand it properly).

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2918-0/figures/2

These are infection fatality rates. The IFR is the most conservative possible way to assess mortality. Case fatality rates (CFR) can overestimate mortality because they don’t consider asymptomatic cases or cases so mild they don’t go and get tested.

As you can see from the graph you chance of being killed outright by covid is about 1 in 10000 from the age of about 20. This increases to about 1 in 1000 by the age of 40. And so on. That’s the risk you take if you choose immunity via infection. And that’s just using death as an end point. Not considering hospitalisation (which is absolutely fecking miserable, believe me) or long covid, or even shitty but minor consequences like permanently losing or altering your sense of taste or smell.

Can you imagine how absolutely fecked the world would be if vaccines killed 1 in 1000 of all the 40 year old who got them? Or how about putting much higher numbers than that in hospital? Or leaving them feeling like shit for months and years afterwards? Or permanently messing with taste/smell?

Well you can only imagine because the vaccines would never have been licensed if they were as damaging to your health as covid. Having been licensed, extensive follow up surveillance in millions and millions of people have confirmed they are absolutely fecking MILES safer than infection with covid. And we may still be waiting for the really long term safety data but we’re also waiting for the long term data on infection with the novel coronavirus SARS-COV-2 (and we already now that there are definite medium term adverse effects thanks to the millions of people suffering with long covid)

To prattle on about preprints which show that covid infection might have slightly increased duration of effect than vaccines (assuming nobody ever gets vaccine boosters) as a reason to choose this method of immunity over vaccination is so spectacularly wrong-headed I find myself repeatedly wondering if you really are entering this discussion as open-minded as you claim to be.

And now I’m annoyed at myself for replying to you again….

Not sure how you can continue to do this.

My friend in Florida just yesterday had a 24 y/o die from Covid and another 22 y/o with covid woke up blind, suspected due to encephalitis with possible occipital stroke, work up ongoing.

And here we have this guy arguing infection is fine for young people. Sigh.

 

[Pexbo]

Source: https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/203-confirmed-covid-cases-tied-to-lollapalooza-chicagos-top-doctor-says/2588834/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&amp&__twitter_impression=true

Vaccines work.

Really does give you hope. We need to push on and get the entire world vaccinated.

 

[Wumminator]

A guy I know well has tested positive. His wife who is heavily pregnant is in ICU and they had to deliver the baby early.

The guy has been spreading anti vax stuff constantly.

There’s nothing about his life that suggests he js smart. He failed his schooling, he is constantly in trouble with the police.

How on Earth someone like that has the arrogance to be antivaccine is mental to me.

 

[The Cat]

A guy I know well has tested positive. His wife who is heavily pregnant is in ICU and they had to deliver the baby early.

The guy has been spreading anti vax stuff constantly.

There’s nothing about his life that suggests he js smart. He failed his schooling, he is constantly in trouble with the police.

How on Earth someone like that has the arrogance to be antivaccine is mental to me.

The few anti vaxxers I know are similar. Always on Facebook on about it - the same people who went mental over Trump losing as well.

 

[stw2022]

Thoughts on full houses at football matches etc again?

If anyone isn’t double jabbed they’re mad. If they are I’m fine with it

 

[djembatheking]

Thoughts on full houses at football matches etc again?

It`s is brilliant , back to normal thank feck.

 

[golden_blunder]

It`s is brilliant , back to normal thank feck.

If it all works out safely then I’m happy. I just worry about people going who aren’t fully vaxxed. There’s a lot of spittle flying around the air and all in close contact

 

[hp88]

Thoughts on full houses at football matches etc again?

I went to the game yesterday, felt a bit weird at first but it was great meeting up with some of guys who I haven’t seen in over year.

One thing that made me feel a bit uneasy was the lack of testing before the game, did a quick LFT before I left home so at least I know I have done my bit for those around me.

 

[hp88]

If anyone isn’t double jabbed they’re mad. If they are I’m fine with it

Yeah to be honest not sure why the government have set the mandatory requirement for this in October.

 

[Dan_F]

Yeah to be honest not sure why the government have set the mandatory requirement for this in October.

So all over 18s have had the chance to get both jabs. I’m 32 and only had my second a week ago, despite booking my first as soon as it was available for me.

 

[FireballXL5]

Be interesting to see if there is a spike in numbers after a few weeks of football.

 

[golden_blunder]

Be interesting to see if there is a spike in numbers after a few weeks of football.

Yeah I’m curious

 

[Massive Spanner]

If it didn't happen in London after euro 2020 why would it happen now?

 

[Steven Seagull]

Doubt there will be a spike and if there is it won’t be interesting. vast majority at football games will be double jabbed by now as there isn’t the same young demographic at the games.
If it’s not the pubs it’s the protests, euros, then it’s the holidays, then the domestic football, then next will be the schools again.
The vaccines are doing a tremendous job.

 

[SirAnderson]

Anyone know or experienced the following post covid after effects:

A strong smokey taste at the back of the throat when laying down and lingers for a bit when standing up, but then goes away?