SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
It’s really fascinating how aggressively the Delta variant took off in the UK but doesn’t seem to be doing the same in Ireland.
Latest update.
Does anyone know if this pattern is the same throughout Europe?
Can anyone think of a reason why we’re seeing a different pattern in different countries?
Latest update.
Does anyone know if this pattern is the same throughout Europe?
Can anyone think of a reason why we’re seeing a different pattern in different countries?
India very close to herd immunity.
Would it be primarily due to the huge population of South Asian descent in the UK? Not in terms of genetics or anything, but general back-and-forth connections.
That's what I would have thought, plus these were the communities vaccine programmes were most struggling to connect with.
UK has a significant Indian community that brought the variant back when visiting family. These communities tend towards multi-generational living. There was an article on the BBC that featured an Indian lad who said they were coming back through Turkey to avoid quarantine rules. The UK starting opening up a fair bit before Ireland which had one of the strictest lockdowns in Europe. In England at least a lot of people seem to think that Covid is over now and the number of people wearing masks is decreasing massively. The young population in the UK has been partying for a couple of months. That's my guess anyway.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56984057
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Interesting graphic but this article does suggest the spike protein gets in the cells and is the reason for the risk of blood clot (which remember when it was first found was called fake news). Now they have a fix it has been accepted as a 'rare' risk.
https://www.ft.com/content/f76eb802-ec05-4461-9956-b250115d0577
If what happened in the Uk is all about travellers from India and their immediate contacts that would be pretty encouraging. As this might mean the increased transmissibility is being overstated.
The young people in Ireland have been partying pretty hard over the last couple of months too. They haven’t been able to hang out inside pubs/clubs but have been socialising like crazy by other means. I’m not too clued in on Uk reopening dates though. When did you start allowing indoor pubs/clubs to open?
Pubs are back indoors - rule of six, track and trace etc... but clubs are still shut until July 19th at the earliest. outdoor rave season is upon again though so plenty of younglings out and about now.
Not by scientists. They paused the AZ rollout while countries were desperate to get vaccines into arms because of those clots. That’s not something that happens because of fake news.
The link below details reopening in the UK. BBC also reported that in the initial hotspots there was a low instance of WFH. The numbers in the initial hotspots are now starting to recede.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ng-2021/covid-19-response-spring-2021-summary
When did that happen? I’m wondering if the Delta took off beforehand (i.e. when restrictions same as Ireland is now).
Also super curious about what’s going on with that variant in the rest of Europe.
Anyone?
17th May for pubs indoors. A lot of the increase was already happening but I'm sure that didn't reduce contacts. Although reports are most incidence of infection are in the 5-12 and teens category while hospital admissions and deaths are in the older category with around 40% having 1 or 2 doses of the vaccine.
Would you not call WHO scientists?
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...-no-blood-clot-link-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine
Isn't it also the case that in the UK we know much better which variants are going around? I remember last year that Wales were doing more genomic sequencing in a week than France were doing in a year. Not sure how well the other countries have caught up now.
Read the article and their statement, at no point did WHO call it fake news
If i'm not wrong, we (India) had similar results during/just after the first wave last year.
Well with the mRNA vaccine I thought that was the point. The spike protein is made within the cell and it then sits on the outside (forgive my poor biology) before being neutralised by the immune system. It seems very small amounts of the spike protein make there way into the blood stream but these levels quickly fall to zero. The point being actual Covid infection will produce many times higher levels of these spike proteins...so in terms of the vaccine I just don't see what the mechanism here is to damage organs etc.
About 1% of cases in Italy. There have been around 100 confirmed Delta variant cases in Italy to date, although numbers may be higher as far less sequencing is done here than in the UK.
We expect the quarantine requirement to be reimposed soon for travellers from the UK - the PM has already made some comments about it.
The WHO said the vaccine did not cause blood clots. It does. What point are you making?
no they didn’t, actually read their statement
The first paragraph.
"A review by the vaccine safety group from the World Health Organization (WHO) based on available data found no increased risk of blood clotting conditions in people who received the AstraZeneca-Oxford vaccine"
1000 participants seems low given their population size, to make any general statements doesn't it?
First of all what that says is their review found no increased risk, this is true, their review did find that but it doesn’t mean that they say it doesn’t cause clotting.
It then elaborates below…
The first part regarding DVT & pulmonary embolism turns out to be true
The second part is the relevant bit to the clots we are talking about, and they’ve said a causal relationship has not been established at this time, which again was true given the data set they had to work with. From there they even link via (1) to this EMA statement that says there may be a link
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/c...-risks-despite-possible-link-rare-blood-clots
So saying it was claimed as fake news and using the WHO as an example to back that is bollocks
This is literally one report. In March it was absolutely common and reported as fake news - no example of "bollocks" at all, this is revisionism and just reeks of you gagging to put a point across where there really isn't one.
The key point (which I made) was originally there was no link and now there is a rare link. If there was not enough data at the time then they should have said we cannot say there is no link due to lack of data. Lots of articles were wrote on it and everyone from Hancock to the WHO said there was no link - there is a rare one.
Im not gagging to put a point across you’re just making things up and even still mentioning WHO when the above says otherwise
I was unsure about vaccine passports at first, but the more stuff I read from anti-vaxers, including those who pretend they're not anti-vaxers, the more I think passports are a good idea. There are just too many who refuse to be educated and won't change their minds however many bodies pile up.
I'd even go so far as to say that all public employees should have a passport, I don't see why the public should pay for staff who are likely to infect them, doesn't make sense.
edit: only when everyone has been offered the vaccine though.
I'd even go so far as to say that all public employees should have a passport, I don't see why the public should pay for staff who are likely to infect them, doesn't make sense.
edit: only when everyone has been offered the vaccine though.
I think the lab leak theory is rational credible theory, but he definitely came off as bonkers in that appearance. Kind of like the last celebrity I expected to come off as a wack job on tv.
100% in favour of vaccine passports. That leaves the option for vaccination to remain a choice but one that will leave you very hard done by for taking that stance. But still a choice if you wish to sacrifice amenities/facilities for your moral outlook. Of course, like you say only once all vaccination offers have been sent out and accepted/refused.
There is/was huge vaccine hesitancy in Pakistan. The Pakistani PM, Imran Khan, basically told all civil servants if you want to get paid this month, get vaccinated. The uptake was phenomenal. Feck morals and quitting your job for something you 'believe in'. This is now being applied across the private sector too.
The rubbish in that video that you were talking about earlier was to do with mRNA vaccines specifically. The only (very rare) clotting issues of any significance have been with the AZ vaccine, a very traditional.vaccine. I'd take a break from social media if I were you.
Not when it comes to medicine regulation, no. That would be the various competent authorities in the countries where the vaccines were licensed. Many of whom paused the roll-out as soon as the first reports of these unusual clotting events came out.
They re-started the roll-out after the EMA review which formally assessed the overall risk and concluded the benefit continued to outweigh the risk. Obviously risk varies from country to country, depending on viral case-load. So some countries restricted use of viral vector vaccines to those least at risk from these unusual clots (i.e. the elderly)
That was all science working as it should. Rare adverse events reported, investigated and thoroughly assessed by experts. Your “fake news” accusation has no basis.
Definitely, having said that though I don't believe its too far off truth. Anecdotally, I know a few extended family in India, and loads in Pakistan. And literally every single one, no exception, has had covid at some point there. Can't say that same about my fam in canada or here in UK.
None of the regulators described it like that, nor did the haematologists who went onto high alert across the UK and the rest of Europe as they re-analysed hospital admissions for CVST and/or thrombocytopenia.
In this thread we discussed it a lot, in particular the question of why hadn't the MHRA spotted it. Did that suggest a batch problem(s), an interaction with another medication or a problem more common in a particular age group (the demographic profile for AZ use in the UK was mostly older adults, the Norwegian cases were younger women). No dismissal of evidence, or cries of fake news, just people wondering what it meant.
Some countries paused the rollout because of it, some stopped using AZ as a result, others changed the target age group. If anything it was a demonstration of how fast the international regulatory structure responded to an alarm being raised.
It's also a demonstration of what typically happens in the case of vaccines provoking adverse reactions. It's a problem that's seen between 5 and 20 days after vaccination and it happens so rarely that the chance of a clinical trial (even one with tens of thousands of participants) seeing it is remote. Ten years of monitoring the health of those trialists really wouldn't help with that, but would leave a lot of people dead with covid.
Excellent post.
This is interesting
It looks like some information isn't shown though as the excess deaths by cause is well over 150,000 whilst the raw total excess death data is at just under 92,000 (697,002 minus 605,305).
It looks like some information isn't shown though as the excess deaths by cause is well over 150,000 whilst the raw total excess death data is at just under 92,000 (697,002 minus 605,305).
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This is interesting
It looks like some information isn't shown though as the excess deaths by cause is well over 150,000 whilst the raw total excess death data is at just under 92,000 (697,002 minus 605,305).
I guess it’s kind of interesting. Nothing particularly startling or surprising. Unless I’m missing something?
Um yeah. This is worrying news. Feck’s sake.
What's worrying you?
A shit load of travelling fans getting infected and seeding the rest of Europe when they get home.