SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

starman said:
What do people think of Vaccine passports? It seems a given for international travel, but for domestic uses?

Click to expand...


My body my choice! Right?!

Or is that not how it works with the far left when it doesn't suit their agenda? Love how everything was a choice before but now its essentially going to be forced on you.

One Night Only said:
In regards to people not taking the vaccine, it's upto them totally, hasn't this been massively rushed through anyway? Even I've got slight reservations about it due to how quickly it got approved when there was talk of it normally taking much much longer.

I'd probably get it anyway, but I can see why some won't. I ain't an anti Vax nut job who thinks bill gates wants to montior how many wanks I have a day.
Click to expand...

Funny when this pandemic started all the doom and gloomers told me the vaccine will take several years to come out, even everybody's God Mr. Fauci said so himself. Now it comes out within a year and no one can question it... if you question it you are a horrible person, selfish, trump supporter, etc.

Not an anti-vaccer either but I'll avoid taking this thing if I can until conclusive long-term data can come out of this. I really don't give a shit about a 6 month trial.
 
Ronaldo's Mum Eh? said:
My body my choice! Right?!

Or is that not how it works with the far left when it doesn't suit their agenda? Love how everything was a choice before but now its essentially going to be forced on you.



Funny when this pandemic started all the doom and gloomers told me the vaccine will take several years to come out, even everybody's God Mr. Fauci said so himself. Now it comes out within a year and no one can question it... if you question it you are a horrible person, selfish, trump supporter, etc.

Not an anti-vaccer either but I'll avoid taking this thing if I can until conclusive long-term data can come out of this. I really don't give a shit about a 6 month trial.
Click to expand...

I defy anyone to read this post and not immediately want vaccine passports more than they did before...
 
Garethw said:
I read recently that the reason a lot of Muslims are not taking the vaccine is that they are being told that the white man is putting pork in it.
Click to expand...


Can pork even be injected? What pork product looks watery?

Also, perhaps they can get a vaccine from India. They have a huge pharma industry.
 
Stack said:
The moment people start to descend into left v right in matters regarding health etc you just know they are driven more by idealogy than they are by information.
Click to expand...

I'm neither left or right.. but this pandemic has shown the hypocrisy of both sides.

In my original post, I was discussing the hypocrisy of the left, there's tons on the right as well.
 
Ronaldo's Mum Eh? said:
I'm neither left or right.. but this pandemic has shown the hypocrisy of both sides.

In my original post, I was discussing the hypocrisy of the left, there's tons on the right as well.
Click to expand...
I dont care if you are left or right. You headed down the path of left v right and for me thats a big red flag that someone is driven by the whole left v right bollocks and not by an actual problem or its information base.
 
Ronaldo's Mum Eh? said:
Now it comes out within a year and no one can question it... if you question it you are a horrible person, selfish, trump supporter, etc.

Not an anti-vaccer either but I'll avoid taking this thing if I can until conclusive long-term data can come out of this. I really don't give a shit about a 6 month trial.
Click to expand...

If you throw enough money at something it can be done quickly. An analogy is like building a bridge, it can be done in 10 days or 10 years. The steps to take to achieve the finished product are broadly the same, and passed the respective gates from people far more educated and knowledgeable on the topic than you or I.

The long term data argument is a bit of a cop out really, at what point do you become comfortable with the length of time before judging something as safe? More so, the long term effects of catching covid is probably the worse scenario out of the two.

Given the volumes of vaccines administered already, any common, uncommon or rare side effects would have been detected by now, furthermore the trials for the vaccines in distribution have been around for nearly a year now. I've not seen any conclusive arguments yet from any anti-vaccine discussion to suggest why it wouldn't be safe.
 
Ronaldo's Mum Eh? said:
My body my choice! Right?!

Or is that not how it works with the far left when it doesn't suit their agenda? Love how everything was a choice before but now its essentially going to be forced on you.



Funny when this pandemic started all the doom and gloomers told me the vaccine will take several years to come out, even everybody's God Mr. Fauci said so himself. Now it comes out within a year and no one can question it... if you question it you are a horrible person, selfish, trump supporter, etc.

Not an anti-vaccer either but I'll avoid taking this thing if I can until conclusive long-term data can come out of this. I really don't give a shit about a 6 month trial.
Click to expand...
Curious how old you are
 
Pogue Mahone said:
True that. With a much higher peak, that helps explain why cases are plateauing at about ten times higher than previous plateaus.
Click to expand...
Are we not doing significantly more tests than we did during the first wave too? Surely, that has an impact on how low we can realistically expect cases to drop.
 
Vidyoyo said:
In fairness I also feel this way but rarely say it as I think/know I'm being selfish.
Click to expand...
I wish I was healthy and could have the vaccine with no concerns at all. I'd be so happy, you have no idea.

If someone healthy of whatever age turns down a free vaccine, then they can't complain about being excluded from certain aspects of socialising, travel etc. Of course no-one should be forced and it's a choice, but this choice comes with rather immediate consequences.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
More than the first wave, definitely (especially in the UK). I don’t think we’re doing more than the wave last autumn though.
Click to expand...
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing

Similar numbers of lab PCR tests to late October and November. The number done in recent weeks has been falling, which reflects reducing cases, so less people with symptoms. There are a LOT more lateral flow tests happening - hundreds of thousands a day - so we should be picking up more a/pre-symptomatic cases, but I don't know if they're a significant proportion of the daily cases. That's probably available from test and trace stats if anyone can be bothered to read their reports.
 
Penna said:
I wish I was healthy and could have the vaccine with no concerns at all. I'd be so happy, you have no idea.

If someone healthy of whatever age turns down a free vaccine, then they can't complain about being excluded from certain aspects of socialising, travel etc. Of course no-one should be forced and it's a choice, but this choice comes with rather immediate consequences.
Click to expand...

That's a valid point and I do certainly agree that the vaccine is an invitation to being able to function in normal ways again. That's also the main reason I would accept it without long-term data - as a means to protect others.

P.s. I deleted my original post as I didn't explain that very well.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
More than the first wave, definitely (especially in the UK). I don’t think we’re doing more than the wave last autumn though.
Click to expand...
That was when we were around these case numbers wasn’t it? I’m not sure they’ll drop much more without closing more workplaces.
 
acnumber9 said:
That was when we were around these case numbers wasn’t it? I’m not sure they’ll drop much more without closing more workplaces.
Click to expand...

Good luck, I've had several friends tell me that they're being brought back in following the government's announcement of a road map this week,
 
NinjaFletch said:
Good luck, I've had several friends tell me that they're being brought back in following the government's announcement of a road map this week,
Click to expand...
Oh it definitely won’t happen. I just don’t see the cases dropping significantly until the vaccines start to show their impact now. I think we’re about best case scenario with the current lockdown we have.
 
acnumber9 said:
Oh it definitely won’t happen. I just don’t see the cases dropping significantly until the vaccines start to show their impact now. I think we’re about best case scenario with the current lockdown we have.
Click to expand...

Yeah, probably right (tbh, I suspect if anything we'll see cases edge back up). We've repeatably demonstrated we're not going to take sensible decisions and refuse to learn our lessons; let's just hope it doesn't cause a variant with South Africa like properties to really feck us before the vaccine stamps out the virus here.
 
Ronaldo's Mum Eh? said:
My body my choice! Right?!

Or is that not how it works with the far left when it doesn't suit their agenda? Love how everything was a choice before but now its essentially going to be forced on you.
Click to expand...

That has never been how our species or our society works and anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a dreamland.

Just because it is my body, I do not have 'the choice' to go to the cinema totally naked. I do not have 'the choice' to take a shit in the dairy aisle at Tesco. I do not have 'the choice' to attend a golf club and set up a game of rugby with 29 mates. I do not have 'the choice' (in most societies anyway) to walk around the street carrying a gun or a sword.

This libertarian fantasy doesn't exist and it pretty much never has in human history. We are social animals and we live in societies with explicit and implicit expectations of how we acceptably behave in a group setting.

It is totally your right to turn down the vaccine if you so choose, just as it is your right to sit at home naked, take a shit on your kitchen floor or walk around in your bedroom with your samurai sword. But when your decisions potentially start to affect others, then 'your choices' unfortunately start to become a bit more limited and what you can do in our constructed societies may also become rather more limited.

Is that fair? Perhaps not. This isn't really a fair time though.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Agreed. No amount of funding can replace long term trials though.
Click to expand...

The trials didn't compromise safety in any way.

Ronaldo's Mum Eh? said:
My body my choice! Right?!

Or is that not how it works with the far left when it doesn't suit their agenda? Love how everything was a choice before but now its essentially going to be forced on you.
Click to expand...

You need to be vaccinated to go to school in many countries. US Universities also usually demand it. Yoy can't travel to some countries without being vaccinated against various things. Airlines and most countries will demand it.

So you have a choice to not vaccinate and have your opportunities restricted accordingly.

Funny when this pandemic started all the doom and gloomers told me the vaccine will take several years to come out, even everybody's God Mr. Fauci said so himself. Now it comes out within a year and no one can question it... if you question it you are a horrible person, selfish, trump supporter, etc.
Click to expand...

For one Dr Peter Doherty stated that he thought we could have a vaccine by September and he wasn't far off.

Not an anti-vaccer either but I'll avoid taking this thing if I can until conclusive long-term data can come out of this. I really don't give a shit about a 6 month trial.
Click to expand...

These vaccines are just as safe as every other vaccine that you have ever taken without question. They have had exactly the same safety trials. The large number of infections, streamlining of the admin process and accepting the financial risks from producing millions of doses in the hope they wouldn't have to be binned is why it was quick. Safety was in no way compromised.

Normal long term post approval monitoring find very very rare side effects that you don't find in phase 3 trials because they are so rare. In this case very very rare side effects, if any, are orders of magnitude better than not vaccinating.
 
africanspur said:
That has never been how our species or our society works and anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a dreamland.

Just because it is my body, I do not have 'the choice' to go to the cinema totally naked. I do not have 'the choice' to take a shit in the dairy aisle at Tesco. I do not have 'the choice' to attend a golf club and set up a game of rugby with 29 mates. I do not have 'the choice' (in most societies anyway) to walk around the street carrying a gun or a sword.

This libertarian fantasy doesn't exist and it pretty much never has in human history. We are social animals and we live in societies with explicit and implicit expectations of how we acceptably behave in a group setting.

It is totally your right to turn down the vaccine if you so choose, just as it is your right to sit at home naked, take a shit on your kitchen floor or walk around in your bedroom with your samurai sword. But when your decisions potentially start to affect others, then 'your choices' unfortunately start to become a bit more limited and what you can do in our constructed societies may also become rather more limited.

Is that fair? Perhaps not. This isn't really a fair time though.
Click to expand...

Totally agreed.

We accept laws and taxes as the price of being part of a society and vaccination is the same.
 
Ronaldo's Mum Eh? said:
Or is that not how it works with the far left when it doesn't suit their agenda? Love how everything was a choice before but now its essentially going to be forced on you.
Click to expand...

I remember Marx saying it in Das Kapital that vaccines should be mandatory.


What a fecking idiot. Apparently making a vaccine mandatory is far left agenda now. Nothing to do with a pandemic and medicine, its actually the communists behind the vaccine.

Conservatives have genuinely lost their mind.
 
gormless said:
Brazilian variant is in the U.K.

Inevitable really, but still not great
Click to expand...

Also not great is the minor shambles in identifying one of the three people who tested positive with this variant.

However, a third, currently unlinked individual is still being sought whose identity is unknown because they did not complete the registration card that came with their Covid-19 testing kit.

Officials said their test was processed on 14 February, so it is likely they took it a day or two earlier. The person is unlikely to have taken their test at one of the regional test sites, where staff can check if contact details have been provided, but it could have been a home test or from local surge testing.
Click to expand...

I mean, come on. Seriously?!
 
Are the Brazilian and SA variants less transmissible than the UK one?
I read they are more resistant to the vaccine, but if they arent spreading as fast, the UK one will surely remain the dominant strain... right?
 
prateik said:
Are the Brazilian and SA variants less transmissible than the UK one?
I read they are more resistant to the vaccine, but if they arent spreading as fast, the UK one will surely remain the dominant strain... right?
Click to expand...

From my understand the issue with them is that prior immunity from previous infection means little in terms of immunity from SA and Brazil strain
 
prateik said:
Are the Brazilian and SA variants less transmissible than the UK one?
I read they are more resistant to the vaccine, but if they arent spreading as fast, the UK one will surely remain the dominant strain... right?
Click to expand...

I’m not sure anyone is 100% certain about how the transmissibility compares but the UK variant won’t remain the dominant strain in countries where the majority of the population are vaccinated, that’s for sure.
 
prateik said:
Are the Brazilian and SA variants less transmissible than the UK one?
I read they are more resistant to the vaccine, but if they arent spreading as fast, the UK one will surely remain the dominant strain... right?
Click to expand...

Rule Britannia?

0CHEVs.gif
 
11101 said:
As far as I'm concerned the newly vaccinated old can return the favour and stay inside for those who are still waiting for their turn. Vaccine passports can come in only once everybody has had the opportunity to get the vaccine.
Click to expand...

How would vaccinated people staying inside benefit anyone?

And the longer you wait to introduce a vaccine passport or similar the larger the admin nightmare when you do.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
I think there are a lot of problems with vaccine passports

It discriminates on various fronts, for example-

Against people of ethnic minority, who are less likely to take up the vaccine for cultural and historical reasons
Against people with health conditions which makes it difficult to take the vaccine
Against younger people on the basis of age
Against people who may choose not to take the vaccine for a variety of reasons including distrust of government, phobia of injections, logistical difficulties, etc
Click to expand...

Vaccine records are an essential health tool and a vaccine passport is no different.

The reason we need to get to HIT (if we can) and use vaccine passports (which further encourage uptake) is to protect people with underlying health conditions who can't take it. If there is a genuine reason they can't take it (including mental health issues) then a vaccine passport will note that. It might not help if you want to travel overseas but if the vaccine passport is used domestically it will. For pretty much all the other cases they just need to suck it up for the greater good. Pay your taxes, abide by laws and get vaccinated. You don't have to enjoy it but you do need to do it as part of the social contract.
 
I just saw that the UK has immunised 20 million people (presumably just the first shot) which is great news. Rather disturbingly the article said only about 75% of the 65+ years demographic have had a vaccination. Do we know what proportion of that 25% who refused the vaccine? Or is it just that they have started the next age group down before finishing the 65+ group?
 
Depressingly Australia is keeping vaccine storage sites secret as there is a fear that they will be sabotaged by anti-vax lunatics. Hopefully ASIO will treat them like any other dangerous terrorist group (the small violent loon fringe, not the Byron Bay style hippy feckwits who think aromatherapy does a better job) and monitor them.
 
Wibble said:
Depressingly Australia is keeping vaccine storage sites secret as there is a fear that they will be sabotaged by anti-vax lunatics. Hopefully ASIO will treat them like any other dangerous terrorist group (the small violent loon fringe, not the Byron Bay style hippy feckwits who think aromatherapy does a better job) and monitor them.
Click to expand...
Depressing really. Sure I can understand if people don't want to take the thing themselves, but the idea that people want to destroy them so others can't take them is baffling.
 
Wibble said:
I just saw that the UK has immunised 20 million people (presumably just the first shot) which is great news. Rather disturbingly the article said only about 75% of the 65+ years demographic have had a vaccination. Do we know what proportion of that 25% who refused the vaccine? Or is it just that they have started the next age group down before finishing the 65+ group?
Click to expand...
Do you have a link to the article? In general the headline figure (the 20m +) is referring to first doses and is up to date, but the demographic data on who's had it it is mostly lagging by a couple of weeks.

Takeup in the 70+ group looks like it's going to go over 90%. The difficult issue for the UK is that it's unbalanced, across ethnicities and level of wealth/deprivation.

Some of that is probably a timing thing, the appointment system relies on text messages, phone calls, links sent by post etc and favours people willing/able to book online, and travel to a local vaccine centre. Some areas are now trying to target the missed groups/individuals. At any rate I wouldn't necessarily equate "not had it" with "rejected it", though there is definitely more hesitation/suspicion in some groups than others.
 
Wibble said:
I just saw that the UK has immunised 20 million people (presumably just the first shot) which is great news. Rather disturbingly the article said only about 75% of the 65+ years demographic have had a vaccination. Do we know what proportion of that 25% who refused the vaccine? Or is it just that they have started the next age group down before finishing the 65+ group?
Click to expand...

That 75% figure is based on the last weekly numbers released on 25th February. There's been around another 1.5m first doses since then, and NHS England are now saying that more than 90% of over-65s have had a vaccination. https://www.england.nhs.uk/2021/03/nhs-invites-people-aged-60-plus-to-book-life-saving-covid-jab/
 
africanspur said:
That has never been how our species or our society works and anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a dreamland.

Just because it is my body, I do not have 'the choice' to go to the cinema totally naked. I do not have 'the choice' to take a shit in the dairy aisle at Tesco. I do not have 'the choice' to attend a golf club and set up a game of rugby with 29 mates. I do not have 'the choice' (in most societies anyway) to walk around the street carrying a gun or a sword.

This libertarian fantasy doesn't exist and it pretty much never has in human history. We are social animals and we live in societies with explicit and implicit expectations of how we acceptably behave in a group setting.

It is totally your right to turn down the vaccine if you so choose, just as it is your right to sit at home naked, take a shit on your kitchen floor or walk around in your bedroom with your samurai sword. But when your decisions potentially start to affect others, then 'your choices' unfortunately start to become a bit more limited and what you can do in our constructed societies may also become rather more limited.

Is that fair? Perhaps not. This isn't really a fair time though.
Click to expand...
Well said.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.