SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Pogue Mahone said:
A friend of mine just sent me a photo from inside the Westfield shopping centre, in London. Throngs of people. Loads without masks. Is that normal in the UK?!

In Ireland you could go days without seeing a single maskless person in an indoor space. I know the benefits of masks are kind of uncertain but to me it’s a marker of general civic spiritedness during the pandemic. If they can’t be bothered wearing a mask in a shopping centre then chances are you’re taking the piss in other ways too.

All very well moaning about Boris and the gang but that photo really shocked me. Looks like the British public need to up their fecking game or reap the consequences.
Click to expand...
I think it’s safe to say many, many people here do not give a shit. And it explains a lot.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
A friend of mine just sent me a photo from inside the Westfield shopping centre, in London. Throngs of people. Loads without masks. Is that normal in the UK?!

In Ireland you could go days without seeing a single maskless person in an indoor space. I know the benefits of masks are kind of uncertain but to me it’s a marker of general civic spiritedness during the pandemic. If they can’t be bothered wearing a mask in a shopping centre then chances are you’re taking the piss in other ways too.

All very well moaning about Boris and the gang but that photo really shocked me. Looks like the British public need to up their fecking game or reap the consequences.
Click to expand...

There's a reason we have such a ridiculously high death count for a relatively small population. Unfortunately, idiocracy is here and it's global.
 
Dumbstar said:
Thank God for that. Hopefully no one is stopped from entering the airport. How are they going to implement flight controls if people just keep on traveling?
Click to expand...

Don't you think it's not such a good time to visit an airport in a hotspot with a new strain of the virus that spreads more easily? Isn't there a sense of social responsibility not to risk exporting that to another country, and rather postpone it to a slightly less risky moment?
 
Brwned said:
Don't you think it's not such a good time to visit an airport in a hotspot with a new strain of the virus that spreads more easily? Isn't there a sense of social responsibility not to risk exporting that to another country, and rather postpone it to a slightly less risky moment?
Click to expand...

Like I stated my wife's mother is very ill. It's not a holiday. We are avid mask wearers and the wife has already had the Corona so her getting it again is less chance than a first infection. We will be careful at the airport nevertheless. Unlike Pogue's Westfield photo I'm hoping airports will be a lot stricter with non mask wearers or non social distancers.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
All very well moaning about Boris and the gang but that photo really shocked me. Looks like the British public need to up their fecking game or reap the consequences.
Click to expand...

Exactly. People love bashing the government all the time. Just because my government is being idiotic doesn’t mean I have to be. UK residents should be smart enough to see beyond what we’re being told, if we’re being told we can be idiots and relax for one day, let alone 5. We are reaping our own rewards, not just what seeds the government has sown.
 
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
Sounds like you are wasted on here perhaps you should be making those decisions instead, you obviously know a lot better.
Click to expand...
By your criteria, many journalists would also run the country better too. There were alot of them saying the exact same thing on the day these rules were announced. It was obvious to anyone with a modicum of foresight at the time.

You are not one of those inaccurately claiming it is "easy with hindsight", are you?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
A friend of mine just sent me a photo from inside the Westfield shopping centre, in London. Throngs of people. Loads without masks. Is that normal in the UK?!

In Ireland you could go days without seeing a single maskless person in an indoor space. I know the benefits of masks are kind of uncertain but to me it’s a marker of general civic spiritedness during the pandemic. If they can’t be bothered wearing a mask in a shopping centre then chances are you’re taking the piss in other ways too.

All very well moaning about Boris and the gang but that photo really shocked me. Looks like the British public need to up their fecking game or reap the consequences.
Click to expand...

A father turned up at my daughters school mask less yesterday. I wanted to punch the cnut, frankly.
 
Brwned said:
Yes, let's. Let's not just look at the countries that suit your argument. We know about Germany, Italy, and a few others, who really are on a long and difficult arc that they could detect at an earlier stage, so let's balance it out with different countries.
  • Switzerland are allowing people to meet multiple households to meet indoors on the 24th, 25th, 26th, and 31st December, and the cantons can decide themselves whether Ski resorts are open.
  • Spain are allowing gatherings of 10 people on 4 days too, swapping out boxing day for New Year's day, and curfews are being pushed back on Christmas Day and New Year's day to the early hours.
  • France have disregarded the curfew for Christmas eve, and are allowing household mixing in general - 6 adults and any number of children.
  • Portugal have removed the 10 person gathering limit and will allow any numbers on Christmas eve and day, and push the curfew back to 2am.
Multiple other countries are allowing household mixing either specifically over the festive period, or in general in this month. They have taken different approaches given different cultures, epidemiology, etc. but the general principle is not at all abnormal. People want to allow human connection if this time, if they can, for obvious reasons, and many people across many countries have disagreed with the rules on both sides.
Click to expand...

Switzerland: full lockdown from 22nd December which counter balances the Xmas mixing.

France: had full lockdown from October until 15th December. They needed to fill out a form to leave home in some cases! This is their counter balance for Xmas mixing.

Picking those 2 examples, just like Germany which I explained earlier in the thread, the countries have allowed Xmas mixing but have "paid" for that privilege by either locking down both sides of Xmas or like France having a strict lockdown for 2 months prior, which is still quite strict even throughout December.

Anyway, maybe you misunderstood my point. My point is not that the government should not have allowed mixing for Xmas. But that they're needs to be a way to manage the rate of infection either before or after the Xmas mixing.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
A friend of mine just sent me a photo from inside the Westfield shopping centre, in London. Throngs of people. Loads without masks. Is that normal in the UK?!

In Ireland you could go days without seeing a single maskless person in an indoor space. I know the benefits of masks are kind of uncertain but to me it’s a marker of general civic spiritedness during the pandemic. If they can’t be bothered wearing a mask in a shopping centre then chances are you’re taking the piss in other ways too.

All very well moaning about Boris and the gang but that photo really shocked me. Looks like the British public need to up their fecking game or reap the consequences.
Click to expand...

Also makes me wonder about this allegedly highly contagious new strain. Highly contagious for selfish idiots, maybe.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
A friend of mine just sent me a photo from inside the Westfield shopping centre, in London. Throngs of people. Loads without masks. Is that normal in the UK?!

In Ireland you could go days without seeing a single maskless person in an indoor space. I know the benefits of masks are kind of uncertain but to me it’s a marker of general civic spiritedness during the pandemic. If they can’t be bothered wearing a mask in a shopping centre then chances are you’re taking the piss in other ways too.

All very well moaning about Boris and the gang but that photo really shocked me. Looks like the British public need to up their fecking game or reap the consequences.
Click to expand...

In my area of Greater Manchester it's 99-100% mask wearing and has been since July 24th. In 5 shop visits you might see one who probably forgot or is exempt.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
By your criteria, many journalists would also run the country better too. There were alot of them saying the exact same thing on the day these rules were announced. It was obvious to anyone with a modicum of foresight at the time.

You are not one of those inaccurately claiming it is "easy with hindsight", are you?
Click to expand...

Don't get me started on journalists.
 
Volumiza said:
Exactly. People love bashing the government all the time. Just because my government is being idiotic doesn’t mean I have to be. UK residents should be smart enough to see beyond what we’re being told, if we’re being told we can be idiots and relax for one day, let alone 5. We are reaping our own rewards, not just what seeds the government has sown.
Click to expand...
Of course everyone must use their own assessment of risk. For example, we had 3 households planning to come together for Xmas day after the rules were announced. But we all agree we would self isolate for 7 days beforehand. This seemed the sensible thung to do. We agreed this before the government had even mentioned that isolating might be a good idea. Their message at the time was very lax and lacked caution.

Now the restrictions on overnight stays have kicked in we are not doing this.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That’s more like it. Kudos to Manchester.
Click to expand...

Well l'm sure it varies across the region.

I've noticed in visiting tameside area it was about 70% a few months ago and now seems almost everyone is wearing a mask

With the damper conditions, people with sniffles and coughs it's probably a lot more important than in the summer.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Switzerland: full lockdown from 22nd December which counter balances the Xmas mixing.

France: had full lockdown from October until 15th December. They needed to fill out a form to leave home in some cases! This is their counter balance for Xmas mixing.

Picking those 2 examples, just like Germany which I explained earlier in the thread, the countries have allowed Xmas mixing but have "paid" for that privilege by either locking down both sides of Xmas or like France having a strict lockdown for 2 months prior, which is still quite strict even throughout December.

Anyway, maybe you misunderstood my point. My point is not that the government should not have allowed mixing for Xmas. But that they're needs to be a way to manage the rate of infection either before or after the Xmas mixing.
Click to expand...

So if you're saying it's fine to allow household mixing on the provision that they lockdown after Christmas, then ultimately I suspect you'll be in support of the strategy because I think that's a very likely outcome. NI have led the way on that because the situation is grave enough to make that borderline politically palatable, and they're just going to communicate it differently in the other nations. It was first suggested by the Welsh First minister a good while back. In which case this would be quibbling about communications. If that is the case then yep my apologies, I misunderstood!
 
redshaw said:
In my area of Greater Manchester it's 99-100% mask wearing and has been since July 24th. In 5 shop visits you might see one who probably forgot or is exempt.
Click to expand...
Same in Preston, or the parts that I go in anyway. There are people on the streets without masks, but in supermarkets, shops, buses, it's virtually everyone. Lot's of idiots spouting off on facebook and the like, but they seem to be toeing the line when it comes to it.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Funny how you don't want to get started on journalists but St. Boris and his cronies can do no wrong?
Click to expand...

I have faith that they're doing the best they can in the circumstances they find themselves, with as much expertise & support as they need. I also don't believe that anyone else in the same boat would look significantly better right now or be doing a much better job. As I say the fact that we can learn about it so quickly, know the tips and tricks to reduce our risks and even produce a vaccine is a miracle in of itself. People really expect miracles it seems I think from a false sense of security they give themselves that the government is and should be in charge of absolutely everything that happens in the universe.

The biggest shame of all is that all of the experts that know all of the easy and 'obvious' choices that should have been made at every step of the way are trapped behind computer screens or else we'd be fine and dandy now.
 
If you're in tier 4 you can still send your kids into a school or go teach in one, but then are expected not to see your own family at all, at Christmas. If they're expecting people to abide by that kind of logic then they are mad, but I think more likely the plan all along was to get people to go out and spend their Christmas money and then announce they can't have a Christmas after most of them have spent it. Nothing to do with science. Nothing to do with saving lives. Just to do with attemptingh to control people and be seen to be doing the right thing even if in actuality it's the wrong thing.

There is nothing new or surprising about the infection rates in the south east. They've been on a steady increase for weeks almost exactly as per the predicted curve, and their chief scientist literally told them on live TV that the tier system would not be effective, when they announced the tier system. This happened on live television.

Some of the schools here wanted to close a week early, but the government threateneed them with legal action to keep them open. Infection transmission is mainly occuring between school aged people at the moment. Yet less than a week before deciding to move the whole region into a non existent "tier 4", the government was threatening schools to stay open regardles sof whether it meant more people being infected over christmas. Work out the scientific logic behind that.

There's going to be thousands of thousands of people in tears this evening and many of them wondering how they'll cope over the next few weeks. It's just plain cruel at this point. This could have been very easily avoided and lives could have been saved rather than lost in the process. They had the option of closing schools a bit early, or announcing much sooner that Christmas restrictions would have to change. They had the option of the "firebreak" lockdown. They have the option of going by assessment rather than freedom removal/control tactics. They had the option of imposing stricter restrictions sooner and backing it up with actual data rather than treating people like they are too stupid to understand.

Assuming the government isn't being run by dangerous idiots just because they are the government is silly.
 
Last edited:
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
I have faith that they're doing the best they can in the circumstances they find themselves, with as much expertise & support as they need. I also don't believe that anyone else in the same boat would look significantly better right now or be doing a much better job. As I say the fact that we can learn about it so quickly, know the tips and tricks to reduce our risks and even produce a vaccine is a miracle in of itself. People really expect miracles it seems I think from a false sense of security they give themselves that the government is and should be in charge of absolutely everything that happens in the universe.

The biggest shame of all is that all of the experts that know all of the easy and 'obvious' choices that should have been made at every step of the way are trapped behind computer screens or else we'd be fine and dandy now.
Click to expand...

Think this is too far in the other direction. This government are a massive pile of shite and have been from the beginning of the pandemic. From the ridiculous messaging throughout, to the corruption, to the inadequacy of the NHS to deal with it because of their last 10 years of mismanagement, to their late decisions, they've made mistakes at every step. They would perhaps have made slightly less if they didn't have essentially one mandate as a cabinet, regardless of actual ability: 'getting brexit done'.

Still, I sometimes visit this thread and wonder if I've stepped into an alternate universe where Britain is uniquely suffering from Covid, while the rest of Europe (and World) swims in normalcy.

I know what someone will say immediately. Most deaths and biggest economic contraction in Europe. And they're right. The UK has been shite at every turn. As have Italy, France, Spain, Sweden, Austria, Switzerland and even Germany now, at some point or another. Its a bit like your friend laughing at you because you've got chlamydia when they've got gonorrhoea.

The whole situation is fecking depressing. I'm looking at work over the next few months and not seeing any way in which this isn't probably the grimmest few months of my career.
 
Dumbstar said:
There's a reason we have such a ridiculously high death count for a relatively small population. Unfortunately, idiocracy is here and it's global.
Click to expand...
It started with Boris's suicidal bravado in thinking it wouldn't be an issue in UK, so wasting Jan-March prep time.
Then the first lockdown wasn't really a lockdown at all, when compared to Asia, let alone Spain or Italy. Masks not mandatory, people allowed out for recreation, borders kept open and trains kept running.
Then we had Cummings
Eat out to help out.
Lets open pubs

Also, despite UK being such a multicultural, multiracial, multinational nation, our understanding of the world is often just with people within our borders and the general British public is surprisingly myopic in its points of reference. The average person thinks we are doing as well as we can, and generally oblivious on the measures nations like Australia, Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, UAE and others took to get on top of the virus.

So we end up with a British public who have been educated in the worst possible way for living through a pandemic, and many of whom have normalised the worst pandemic behaviours.

I don't agree with your last point about idiocy being global. Might be a western Europe issue, but many populations adhere to restrictions and obligations far better than people in UK.
 
Last edited:
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
I have faith that they're doing the best they can in the circumstances they find themselves, with as much expertise & support as they need. I also don't believe that anyone else in the same boat would look significantly better right now or be doing a much better job. As I say the fact that we can learn about it so quickly, know the tips and tricks to reduce our risks and even produce a vaccine is a miracle in of itself. People really expect miracles it seems I think from a false sense of security they give themselves that the government is and should be in charge of absolutely everything that happens in the universe.

The biggest shame of all is that all of the experts that know all of the easy and 'obvious' choices that should have been made at every step of the way are trapped behind computer screens or else we'd be fine and dandy now.
Click to expand...
How much detailed knowledge or exposure do you have to how other countries have dealt with this?

Thailand has identical population to UK. plus Bangkok is a very busy international hub. they have 60 deaths so far vs UK 67,000+ deaths
Vietnam has 35% bigger population to UK: 35 deaths
Philippines is almost double UK population: 8,900 deaths
Take even a country like South Africa, 90% of UK population : 25,000 deaths.

There are so many countries 'in the same boat' as UK, and yet every single one is doing so much better.
 
Last edited:
Pogue Mahone said:
A friend of mine just sent me a photo from inside the Westfield shopping centre, in London. Throngs of people. Loads without masks. Is that normal in the UK?!

All very well moaning about Boris and the gang but that photo really shocked me. Looks like the British public need to up their fecking game or reap the consequences.
Click to expand...


 
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
I have faith that they're doing the best they can in the circumstances they find themselves, with as much expertise & support as they need. I also don't believe that anyone else in the same boat would look significantly better right now or be doing a much better job. As I say the fact that we can learn about it so quickly, know the tips and tricks to reduce our risks and even produce a vaccine is a miracle in of itself. People really expect miracles it seems I think from a false sense of security they give themselves that the government is and should be in charge of absolutely everything that happens in the universe.

The biggest shame of all is that all of the experts that know all of the easy and 'obvious' choices that should have been made at every step of the way are trapped behind computer screens or else we'd be fine and dandy now.
Click to expand...

You have faith in this bunch of Tory spivs? Jesus Christ.
 
Flout the rules, lose your furlough pay.

We'd see much higher compliance then imo
 
Relevated said:
This is cool man but I bet their attitude would have been different if the government didn't lie, go back on their words, change rules last minute, etc etc.
Click to expand...
Personal responsibility has to come into this at some point. If everyone actually listened to the science and what experts have been saying we wouldn’t be in this position.
 
It's disappointing seeing all those White And Majority Ethnic people risking their own lives and the lives of others.
 
I bet half of those Londoners jumping ship were telling the northerners to suck it up when they were in tier 3 for weeks
 
To be fair I think it's a bit of a stretch to call any group of people in St Pancras 'Londoners'. More than likely a lot of them are going home to where they are actually from.
 
sammsky1 said:


Click to expand...


My instagram timeline is full of people "escaping London" planning parties as a feck you or saying they are sticking to their original plans.

This is what happens when the government use bullshit to try and retrospectively move the goalposts. They aren't trying to save lives because announcing these changes at this stage when it's obvious so many people wont stick to them is going to be of very little help. They are trying to save face by pretending they are doing the right thing while tricking people into thinking they would have a Christmas so they'd go out and spend money on it.

I've had my mum on the phone crying three times. I'm going to have to still go see her at the very least because cutting her off from the world for Christmas with this little notice when she can't even isolate or form a bubble to get around it is cruel, and it's a lesser evil for me to break the rules at this point than do that to someone. That's the dilemna this bullshit has put hundreds of thousands of people in.

There was no reason not to come to this decision 2-3 weeks ago or longer if it was ever going to be a possibility. Nothing has changed in that time to make where we are at now a surprise in terms of the infection rate. Only 3 days ago they "reviewed" the tiers supposedly. Only a day before they were forcing Schools in London and Essex to stay open despite requests from the schools to close a week early due to the infection transmission being linked directly to school aged people.

It's actually at a point where I can see it ending in full on riots. People aren't so stupid that they can't tell complete bollocks from reason, and using complete bollocks to take people's freedoms away is dangerous at the best of times.
 
Tibs said:
Flout the rules, lose your furlough pay.

We'd see much higher compliance then imo
Click to expand...
Yeah, we definitely need to punish those suffering the most from the virus more. They’d had such an easy ride.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.