SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Berbaclass said:
The game where they made them all go through a disinfection pod?
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You mean the security theatre?

lynchie said:
There's a huge amount of security theatre going on - for some reason sports teams in particular seem to be keen on running through sprays of disinfectant, and there's been people wandering around spraying corner flags, and it's all probably useless.

This was a particularly strong example:
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F-Red said:
How should they have communicated it then?
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IMO, they should have stated something like "Oxford trial demonstrates 90% success in certain trials and 70+% as an average of various levels of doses tests conducted" or words to that effect.
 
Airline to demand proof of vaccination from passengers

Australian airline Qantas has suspended almost all overseas flights until mid-2021
Passengers will have to prove they have been vaccinated against Covid-19 before boarding an international flight with Qantas, the Australian airline’s chief executive has said.
Alan Joyce told Australia's Channel 9 that the airline was “looking at changing our terms and conditions” as several vaccines await final approval.
“We will ask people to have a vaccination before they get on the aircraft. Certainly, for international visitors coming out and people leaving the country we think that's a necessity," Joyce said.
He said proof of Covid-19 vaccinations may become a “common theme” across the industry.
“What we’re looking at is how you can have a vaccination passport, an electronic version of it that certifies what the vaccine is and whether it’s acceptable to the country you’re traveling to,” he said.
Qantas has suspended almost all overseas flights until the middle of 2021, and does not expect to resume full service until a Covid vaccine becomes available.
 
So currently we are not allowed to fly out the UK unless it is for work, emergency etc.

What's the situation on flying out like from December 2nd?
 
F-Red said:
You mean the security theatre?
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Since when has disinfecting things been a waste of time? Obviously the virus is inside you, we all still use hand sanitiser though because its good practice. You can call it 'security theatre' or whatever you want but it's just an example of an extra precaution being taken at a football match that isn't in retail environments.
 
LARulz said:
So currently we are not allowed to fly out the UK unless it is for work, emergency etc.

What's the situation on flying out like from December 2nd?
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I think it'll revert back to the tier system approach that we saw prior to the November 5th restrictions, so air travel most likely will resume.
 
F-Red said:
I trust the judgement of Prof Noakes, who specialises in infection transmission, when she says it's a terrible idea.
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If you go through one of those pods with your eyes open and breathing in disinfectant then you're a moron.

Doesn't make the implementation or function of them necessary a bad idea.
 
Goodness me. In the PM briefing, NHS Test and Trace funding for 2021 is £22bn!!
Equivalent to 20% of the whole annual NHS budget.
Eyewatering sums of money.
 
Berbaclass said:
If you go through one of those pods with your eyes open and breathing in disinfectant then you're a moron.

Doesn't make the implementation or function of them necessary a bad idea.
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What exactly do you think dousing yourself in disinfectant achieves then?
 
I've been limiting my social contacts since March and the hospital remains the only place I've visited indoors, so not about to throw to caution to the wind for the sake of Christmas - particularly will a vaccine in sight.

Only way I envisage a 'normal' Christmas Day would be for those I usually spend it with to isolate in advance and ideally to get a test (if they're made available).
 
stepic said:
the 5m is just for the moderna one. they've ordered 100m of the Oxford, 60m of the Psizer one, etc
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This is what it said on the radio. So why can't we give it to everyone, unless it just takes a long time to make it for that many people.
 
giggs-beckham said:
This is what it said on the radio. So why can't we give it to everyone, unless it just takes a long time to make it for that many people.
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It's a bit of a challenge with manufacturing and distribution. The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines require two dosages around 15 days apart, and stored at -80 degrees, distributing it in that condition globally is a challenge as cold storage facilities exist, but the challenge of that storage conditions at the community level is somewhat limited, with the risk that the vaccine disintegrates at higher temperatures and a higher proportion of wastage potentially.

Combine that with the raw materials to power those conditions (dry ice that needs to be replenished every 5 days for a max of 15 days) and the raw materials for the vaccines themselves. The AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine doesn't require the extreme storage conditions, but requires two doses, and arguably will be the more widely distributed vaccine due to it's far cheaper cost and accessibility.

So technically vaccinating everyone in the world would require more than 15 billion vaccine doses, and that doesn’t allow for vaccine's that are spoiled, broken or end up lost in the back of a freezer. Of course we wouldn't have to vaccinate everyone in order to stop transmission, so the figure could and probably will be lower.

It'll be phased as the production yield comes up to speed, hence why we're having a tiered approach of the most vulnerable people & front line workers being the priority. Looking at the data as long as you get to a level of 60+ having the vaccine then it addresses a large number of the demographics which are having the worst reactions to the virus.
 
F-Red said:
It's a bit of a challenge with manufacturing and distribution. The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines require two dosages around 15 days apart, and stored at -80 degrees, distributing it in that condition globally is a challenge as cold storage facilities exist, but the challenge of that storage conditions at the community level is somewhat limited, with the risk that the vaccine disintegrates at higher temperatures and a higher proportion of wastage potentially.

Combine that with the raw materials to power those conditions (dry ice that needs to be replenished every 5 days for a max of 15 days) and the raw materials for the vaccines themselves. The AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine doesn't require the extreme storage conditions, but requires two doses, and arguably will be the more widely distributed vaccine due to it's far cheaper cost and accessibility.

So technically vaccinating everyone in the world would require more than 15 billion vaccine doses, and that doesn’t allow for vaccine's that are spoiled, broken or end up lost in the back of a freezer. Of course we wouldn't have to vaccinate everyone in order to stop transmission, so the figure could and probably will be lower.

It'll be phased as the production yield comes up to speed, hence why we're having a tiered approach of the most vulnerable people & front line workers being the priority. Looking at the data as long as you get to a level of 60+ having the vaccine then it addresses a large number of the demographics which are having the worst reactions to the virus.
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Excellent thank you. Why aren't we focusing in the short term, in terms of order numbers on the Oxford vaccine as it doesn't have the storage issues for example.
 
giggs-beckham said:
Excellent thank you. Why aren't we focusing in the short term, in terms of order numbers on the Oxford vaccine as it doesn't have the storage issues for example.
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It'll all depend on which gets approved first as to what the UK will deploy as the first vaccine. I imagine at some point we'll have all three mentioned, plus more, in circulation, with a longer term mass deployment focus on the Oxford vaccine. They need orders in for all on the off chance, that one doesn't pass approvals.
 
F-Red said:
It'll all depend on which gets approved first as to what the UK will deploy as the first vaccine. I imagine at some point we'll have all three mentioned, plus more, in circulation, with a longer term mass deployment focus on the Oxford vaccine. They need orders in for all on the off chance, that one doesn't pass approvals.
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So if as they suggest the Oxford vaccine will be given to front line and elderly are they doing this without said vaccine being approved.
 
I'm just being impatient if honest. Its incredible how fast they are being with these vaccines considering how long this stuff typically takes.
 
sammsky1 said:
Airline to demand proof of vaccination from passengers

Australian airline Qantas has suspended almost all overseas flights until mid-2021
Passengers will have to prove they have been vaccinated against Covid-19 before boarding an international flight with Qantas, the Australian airline’s chief executive has said.
Alan Joyce told Australia's Channel 9 that the airline was “looking at changing our terms and conditions” as several vaccines await final approval.
“We will ask people to have a vaccination before they get on the aircraft. Certainly, for international visitors coming out and people leaving the country we think that's a necessity," Joyce said.
He said proof of Covid-19 vaccinations may become a “common theme” across the industry.
“What we’re looking at is how you can have a vaccination passport, an electronic version of it that certifies what the vaccine is and whether it’s acceptable to the country you’re traveling to,” he said.
Qantas has suspended almost all overseas flights until the middle of 2021, and does not expect to resume full service until a Covid vaccine becomes available.
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I imagine they will be working with the Federal Government on this one as how to open the International borders without is one of our greatest challenges.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Anyone know which vaccine results is next up? Should be a bit of wait for this one, right?
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Jansenn (Johnson and Johnson)?
- though I think they've now started another phase 3 trial using a two dose vaccine (they started off with a single dose protocol) which I guess may mean they didn't get the results they were hoping for on the singles dose. They were expected to publish before Christmas

Novavax
- expecting results in early Q1 from the UK trial, but as the US trials are only just starting, they might not release much until they can report US data as well.

I think a couple of Chinese vaccines are in Phase 3 in Brazil and elsewhere + emergency use in China and I think Russia's got one at a similar stage as well.

Nice tracker at:
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-coronavirus-drug-vaccine-status/
 
giggs-beckham said:
So why can't it be given to more people than just front line and elderly.
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It has to be manufactured, distributed and administered and that takes time. I'm sure all governments will want every available dose used as fast as possible so you assume they know there will be a limited supply at first so they are targeting priority groups.
 
jojojo said:
Jansenn (Johnson and Johnson)?
- though I think they've now started another phase 3 trial using a two dose vaccine (they started off with a single dose protocol) which I guess may mean they didn't get the results they were hoping for on the singles dose. They were expected to publish before Christmas

Novavax
- expecting results in early Q1 from the UK trial, but as the US trials are only just starting, they might not release much until they can report US data as well.

I think a couple of Chinese vaccines are in Phase 3 in Brazil and elsewhere + emergency use in China and I think Russia's got one at a similar stage as well.

Nice tracker at:
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-coronavirus-drug-vaccine-status/
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The Uni of Queensland vaccine is about to start phase 3 trials as well.
 
Wibble said:
It has to be manufactured, distributed and administered and that takes time. I'm sure all governments will want every available dose used as fast as possible so you assume they know there will be a limited supply at first so they are targeting priority groups.
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Ok thats what I thought. Again what an amazing achievement.
 
Wibble said:
I think the shambling governmental response and communication in the UK and US has significantly contributed to people's attitude.
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No doubt. But, I just heard that over a million of Americans have gone through airports since last Friday, roughly 45% of what it was same day last year, never have approached this close of percentage. Don’t think all of these traveling this year have emergent family issues with to deal with. It’s one holiday, not even that old in this country, one of more secular ones. Skip it. Why compound the problem & bring it home or to other family? It’s just one holiday.

This government has been consistent in warning against any sizable travel for Thanksgiving, albeit perhaps more muted vs. previous administrations. Many governments aren’t shrouding themselves in glory, no doubt about that, but humans themselves are not absolved from any blame in all this.
 
calodo2003 said:
No doubt. But, I just heard that over a million of Americans have gone through airports since last Friday, roughly 45% of what it was same day last year, never have approached this close of percentage. Don’t think all of these traveling this year have emergent family issues with to deal with. It’s one holiday, not even that old in this country, one of more secular ones. Skip it. Why compound the problem & bring it home or to other family? It’s just one holiday.

This government has been consistent in warning against any sizable travel for Thanksgiving, albeit perhaps more muted vs. previous administrations. Many governments aren’t shrouding themselves in glory, no doubt about that, but humans themselves are not absolved from any blame in all this.
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Agreed but many governments haven't done enough to encourage good behaviour and they are meant to be the adults in the room.
 
Wibble said:
Agreed but many governments haven't done enough to encourage good behaviour and they are meant to be the adults in the room.
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Again, we don’t disagree. But there appears to be little public regard for critical mass being reached in health care systems & governmental institutions. There’s still too much grey area in the lives of millions outside of the inherent risks of providing for one’s livelihood, a bit too much hubris & not enough altruism.
 
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