SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

FootballHQ said:
Going to be very hard in winter months though which we're now on verge of.
That's one thing you can't prevent with more harsh restrictrions, minus temperatures in November, December and January which will keep people indoors for prolonged periods. Of course though you still need to go to shops to stock up in this period.
The light in the tunnel will hopefully be from Feb onwards but it's going to be a long and painful slog to get there.
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The hope is our population is now far better educated about virus pandemic protocol (like some Asia countries), and all the key institutions of British life are also prepared and adjusted.
Think back to March when crowds were still allowed in football stadiums, nightclubs schools and offices with zero knowledge or precautions: that naivety seems insane now.
I think once the death numbers get into high 3 digits, people will also start to get scared and become more compliant, with Government interventions as well.
Hopefully everyone aged 50+ is vaccinated early next year and we'll be able to see the end of this nightmare.
 
sammsky1 said:
The hope is our population is now far better educated about virus pandemic protocol (like some Asia countries), and all the key institutions of British life are also prepared and adjusted.
Think back to March when crowds were still allowed in football stadiums, nightclubs schools and offices with zero knowledge or precautions: that naivety seems insane now.
I think once the death numbers get into high 3 digits, people will also start to get scared and become more compliant, with Government interventions as well.
Hopefully everyone aged 50+ is vaccinated early next year and we'll be able to see the end of this nightmare.
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How likely would you say a vaccines early next year would be?
 
SiRed said:
I wouldn't say its all about me or i am selfish - i follow the guide lines, unlike many folk. I wear a mask, i dont mix my bubbles and so on - i am just concerned for my welfare as i am finding it hard being dictated too and i am not 100% why. As i can see the death % seems relatively low considering the amount of positive cases. I understand about not wanting to overwhelm the NHS but didnt they build a currently unused nightingale as an overflow?

Just as a separate question which hopefully someone could shed some light on for me.... My Son has had to isolate for 2 weeks as a supply teacher he has tested positive which is fine.
There is a bloke i work with in an office that has tested positive last week, management have told us we do not need to isolate and must continue coming to work. There is now another lad who has developed symptoms and is awaiting results of a test.
Are work in the wrong by making us come to work still? bear in mind - we are able to work from home, but apparently we are more productive in the office.!
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Your work are being stupid cnuts. I’d say you’re within your rights to work from home if it’s possible - in fact it’s encouraged
 
SiRed said:
We wlked past each other in the brew room but were both masked up at the time.

Management have said that the office has been deemed 'Covid safe' which i think means we have a temp checked daily, we have a new sanitizer and if somebody tests positive, we get the feather duster out and clean up a tad.

I feel like we are having the wool pulled over our eyes - we were all working from home the first few months then we was urged to return to the office, and when Boris recently said if you can work from home you should - we were just told this doesn't apply to us. They believe we do more work in the office than at home.
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That might be true but the health and safety of the workers should be paramount. Ask them if they are gonna change their minds if someone ends up in ICU. I’m irritated on your behalf, very very lax from your workplace
 
SiRed said:
I wouldn't say its all about me or i am selfish - i follow the guide lines, unlike many folk. I wear a mask, i dont mix my bubbles and so on - i am just concerned for my welfare as i am finding it hard being dictated too and i am not 100% why. As i can see the death % seems relatively low considering the amount of positive cases. I understand about not wanting to overwhelm the NHS but didnt they build a currently unused nightingale as an overflow?

Just as a separate question which hopefully someone could shed some light on for me.... My Son has had to isolate for 2 weeks as a supply teacher he has tested positive which is fine.
There is a bloke i work with in an office that has tested positive last week, management have told us we do not need to isolate and must continue coming to work. There is now another lad who has developed symptoms and is awaiting results of a test.
Are work in the wrong by making us come to work still? bear in mind - we are able to work from home, but apparently we are more productive in the office.!
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I went for a job interview in a ‘COVID safe’ office and got the impression they just didn’t trust people to work from home. The role id be doing could definitely be done from home, at least once I’ve got up to speed at the new place.
 
I’m not sure if people realise but these Nightingale hospitals provide extra beds, but they will be staffed by removing doctors, nurses and HCA’s from other hospitals in that area. This is exactly what was proposed back in April.

Most hospitals I’ve worked in tend to be understaffed already with plenty of rota gaps, and winters are tough to work in. So I’m not sure how they’re going to make this work. It’s not like they’re offering to bring in more doctors to help.

If there’s no lockdown like summer, it’s going to a awful time for the NHS. It seems people are expecting to carry on as normal, and are not realising that eventually the amount of people who will need to be hospitalised will be unmanageable for the people working in hospitals.
 
Habs said:
I’m not sure if people realise but these Nightingale hospitals provide extra beds, but they will be staffed by removing doctors, nurses and HCA’s from other hospitals in that area. This is exactly what was proposed back in April.

Most hospitals I’ve worked in tend to be understaffed already with plenty of rota gaps, and winters are tough to work in. So I’m not sure how they’re going to make this work. It’s not like they’re offering to bring in more doctors to help.

If there’s no lockdown like summer, it’s going to a awful time for the NHS. It seems people are expecting to carry on as normal, and are not realising that eventually the amount of people who will need to be hospitalised will be unmanageable for the people working in hospitals.
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That’s the elephant in the room. Lots of talk about pubs and schools but not much about what happened in hospitals during the first wave: cancellation of elective surgery, massively reduced services across the board.

Creating a load of extra beds/wards won’t help with maintaining the existing services. In fact they’ll do the opposite. And that’s how some of the most damaging consequences will occur.
 
11101 said:
Probably because none of them can be trusted not to go leaking everything to the press if they get any kind of time to do so.
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Christ yeah imagine policy being discussed openly rather than Supreme Leader Boris ruling by decree.

To be fair it's not like Boris and his cronies didn't warn us what would happen.
 
golden_blunder said:
That might be true but the health and safety of the workers should be paramount. Ask them if they are gonna change their minds if someone ends up in ICU. I’m irritated on your behalf, very very lax from your workplace
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im glad i aint the only one thats irritated. just spoke to management - the people that were sat on that same bank of desks as the positive case are working from home for now. Suppose they have to look like there taking some measures ha.
 
Is anywhere actually Tier 3 then?

Bit of a joke that there's been all this talk about lockdown coming, and it's basically just the same as we were...

As usual, BoJo doing something meaningless in the big picture, so when people later try to blame him for all the deaths, he can turn around and say that he implemented measures.

Bets on ~50,000 cases a day come November?
 
Dave_MUFC said:
Is anywhere actually Tier 3 then?

Bit of a joke that there's been all this talk about lockdown coming, and it's basically just the same as we were...

As usual, BoJo doing something meaningless in the big picture, so when people later try to blame him for all the deaths, he can turn around and say that he implemented measures.

Bets on ~50,000 cases a day come November?
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Liverpool.

So pubs have to close apart from ones that do food of course, like Spoons etc.
 
Smores said:
Christ yeah imagine policy being discussed openly rather than Supreme Leader Boris ruling by decree.

To be fair it's not like Boris and his cronies didn't warn us what would happen.
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That's what happened last time the restrictions started and everybody went running out for one last hurrah.
 
Dave_MUFC said:
Such a selfish outlook.

So any relatives you may have who are 50+, you don't mind potentially giving them a death sentence/getting extremely ill because of your actions? Same goes for older/vulnerable people in general, but I know a lot of selfish people at the moment don't give a care if they die as apparently "they're old and would die anyway"...

You enjoy playing football, as I do aswell (I am currently playing Saturday league, as I feel outdoors the chances are almost zero of catching it), but this virus has affected many healthy individuals who had the flu symptoms, yet now 5-6 months on still have breathing troubles and fatigued etc. and can't do any sport. That absolutely terrifies me.
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I'm presuming the 50+ relatives in that scenario have either made the decision to shield or made the adult decision to put themselves at risk?

The grey area in this scenario are hospital and care home workers etc whereby the decisions of others are thrust upon the residents/patients on a day to day basis. I wonder whether from March there could have been some form of recompense whereby themselves and those within their households essentially shield outside of their work.

It would obviously be a real logistical challenge allowing adults to flagrantly put themselves at risk if they so choose; whilst protecting the aforementioned category. However given the cost to the economy (well into the 11 figures) and also the additional spending on job support etc (also 11 figures); plus the huge cost to the mental and physical health of the country; I'm surprised that a solution couldn't be found.
 
finneh said:
I'm presuming the 50+ relatives in that scenario have either made the decision to shield or made the adult decision to put themselves at risk?

The grey area in this scenario are hospital and care home workers etc whereby the decisions of others are thrust upon the residents/patients on a day to day basis. I wonder whether from March there could have been some form of recompense whereby themselves and those within their households essentially shield outside of their work.

It would obviously be a real logistical challenge allowing adults to flagrantly put themselves at risk if they so choose; whilst protecting the aforementioned category. However given the cost to the economy (well into the 11 figures) and also the additional spending on job support etc (also 11 figures); plus the huge cost to the mental and physical health of the country; I'm surprised that a solution couldn't be found.
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That’s far from the only grey area.

For someone who is vulnerable (which could apparently be argued to be 25% of the Uk population) how do they shield themselves when they get a haircut? Visit the dentist? Go and see their GP? Or a physiotherapist? What if they would like to spend some time with their family?

And what about vulnerable people still at work? How do they earn a living doing one of the dozens of types of job that can’t be done from home, if their co-workers are likely to be riddled with the virus?

The whole “shielding only the vulnerable” strategy puts an intolerable burden on a not insignificant proportion of the population. It’s an incredibly harsh and unfair solution. Which will likely result in enormous death/hardship regardless.
 
I’m considered medically vulnerable and apart from medical appointments and today’s dental appointment I don’t really see anyone other than my wife and children since March. I’m ok but I worry about the stress on my wife as she has basically bought fully into cocooning too for my sake. She hasn’t seen her family since like January (they live in England), and she works from home so not getting even to see work colleagues. It’s starting to give her anxiety. We desperately need a small break somewhere. Fcuk 2020
 
SiRed said:
We wlked past each other in the brew room but were both masked up at the time.

Management have said that the office has been deemed 'Covid safe' which i think means we have a temp checked daily, we have a new sanitizer and if somebody tests positive, we get the feather duster out and clean up a tad.

I feel like we are having the wool pulled over our eyes - we were all working from home the first few months then we was urged to return to the office, and when Boris recently said if you can work from home you should - we were just told this doesn't apply to us. They believe we do more work in the office than at home.
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I've found an awful lot of employers have wilfully ignored the latest government advice as though it's somehow not as binding as the previous advice. Are you a member of a trade union? It might be worth setting one up if there is not already one at your work, because they may be able to hold your employer to account over health and safety stuff like this.
 
decorativeed said:
I've found an awful lot of employers have wilfully ignored the latest government advice as though it's somehow not as binding as the previous advice. Are you a member of a trade union? It might be worth setting one up if there is not already one at your work, because they may be able to hold your employer to account over health and safety stuff like this.
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Unfortunately not, I often feel we need to be part of a Union the way we are treated sometimes. The latest advise on working from home has certainly been ignored here. Its this type of attitude that means harsher lockdowns and increased cases are inevitable. Prolonging the misery.
 
So the “very high” tier entails the closing of bookies and wet bars? Do we anticipate that making much difference?
 
SiRed said:
Unfortunately not, I often feel we need to be part of a Union the way we are treated sometimes. The latest advise on working from home has certainly been ignored here. Its this type of attitude that means harsher lockdowns and increased cases are inevitable. Prolonging the misery.
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A union rep would also be able to ask your employers how they are monitoring productivity. I expect it's like my place, where they aren't at all, and it's just based on the assumption/personal opinion of the managers that people want to be back in the office and work better there. When I asked about monitoring, they went quiet, and while they are still 'encouraging' staff back into offices that aren't big enough to accommodate every member of staff if they all went in on the same day, they aren't enforcing it yet either.
 
decorativeed said:
A union rep would also be able to ask your employers how they are monitoring productivity. I expect it's like my place, where they aren't at all, and it's just based on the assumption/personal opinion of the managers that people want to be back in the office and work better there. When I asked about monitoring, they went quiet, and while they are still 'encouraging' staff back into offices that aren't big enough to accommodate every member of staff if they all went in on the same day, they aren't enforcing it yet either.
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Its kind of funny - i would question the monitoring of productivity BUT a productivity tool / macro was created about 2 months before lockdown - and it was me who created it. Talk about shooting yourself in your own foot. I could easily sabotage the excel formula's a nobody would be none the wiser but if i got caught id be in hot water.
 
SiRed said:
Its kind of funny - i would question the monitoring of productivity BUT a productivity tool / macro was created about 2 months before lockdown - and it was me who created it. Talk about shooting yourself in your own foot. I could easily sabotage the excel formula's a nobody would be none the wiser but if i got caught id be in hot water.
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Bad timing, that! It's great being the only person who knows how things like that work though. I used to work alone in the office at weekends, and spent the first day learning how to automate all my tasks with excel. Every weekend after that was basically a case of pressing a button then sitting back and watching TV for much of the day!
 
decorativeed said:
Bad timing, that! It's great being the only person who knows how things like that work though. I used to work alone in the office at weekends, and spent the first day learning how to automate all my tasks with excel. Every weekend after that was basically a case of pressing a button then sitting back and watching TV for much of the day!
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Sounds like you should be the one tracking all these COVID figures instead of Serco. Sounds like it would be in safer hands
 
golden_blunder said:
I’m considered medically vulnerable and apart from medical appointments and today’s dental appointment I don’t really see anyone other than my wife and children since March. I’m ok but I worry about the stress on my wife as she has basically bought fully into cocooning too for my sake. She hasn’t seen her family since like January (they live in England), and she works from home so not getting even to see work colleagues. It’s starting to give her anxiety. We desperately need a small break somewhere. Fcuk 2020
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Looks like shielding advice will be updated in the coming hours/days inline with the new three-tier system. But there are no easy answers. There is talk of shielding becoming more tailored (which is sensible) based on patient data, COVID-learnings and even an algorithm. But that won't be of comfort to everyone and many will still need/want to protect themselves. Unsurprisingly, rates of anxiety and depression are higher amongst shielders.

As early as April/May I began trying to mentally prepare myself for effectively 'writing off' the rest of the year - I guess that way I wasn't setting myself up for disappointment. Particularly given how challenging winter could/will be. I'm privileged to be able to WFH and can avoid any situation I consider too risky. Whereas some are told they are Clinically Extremely Vulnerable but have been forced into choosing between their health and their income. I really feel for those people. The impact of shielding should not and cannot be underestimated.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That’s far from the only grey area.

For someone who is vulnerable (which could apparently be argued to be 25% of the Uk population) how do they shield themselves when they get a haircut? Visit the dentist? Go and see their GP? Or a physiotherapist? What if they would like to spend some time with their family?

And what about vulnerable people still at work? How do they earn a living doing one of the dozens of types of job that can’t be done from home, if their co-workers are likely to be riddled with the virus?

The whole “shielding only the vulnerable” strategy puts an intolerable burden on a not insignificant proportion of the population. It’s an incredibly harsh and unfair solution. Which will likely result in enormous death/hardship regardless.
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I fully agree that they couldn't shield in areas with community transmission. They would need to shield somewhere with no community transmission, very few cases and a full support network around them so they didn't need to shield in the traditional sense. They would no doubt have to fully and voluntarily isolate themselves from regions with community transmission.

Whether after lockdown with cases low, with aggressive focused testing and a strict internal border in a certain area of the country this could be achieved I'm unsure (with "support" staff generously compensated... Voluntary sign up of course). Likewise whether a voluntary (no-one would be forced to shield) army imposed 14 day Covid tested quarantine, combined with transport to somewhere with low or no cases is possible again I'm unsure.

Whilst I'd never want Chinese style restrictions imposed upon me or anyone I knew involuntary; we know that they work in eliminating transmission in the areas they're imposed.

All might well be stupid ideas but with money literally no object the inability to at least provide the vulnerable with an option seems absurd (hell even a 12 month cruise after the aforementioned quarantine for a few thousand people at a time!)
 
Pogue Mahone said:
There is some logic to that. So long as your grandson is in the very early stages of his (potential) illness the chance of him passing it on is fairly low. By keeping him out of school they reduce the chance of him infecting others if/when he gets symptoms and starts shedding virus. At that point he should be tested, while the other members of his household self-isolate. And so on.

The minibus just needs a deep clean. Which it should be getting every day anyway.
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But why isnt everyone in the household isolating at the same time?

I cant understand this part. What if the child and parents are asymptomatic and then spreading it through their workplace
 
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