Yes I know that. But as it is, somebody from a worse hit region in the UK can still enter those regions. And people within those badly hit regions are free to move. So it’s not really managing it.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
That's only an issue if they have symptoms, and by that logic they should be self isolating.
And surely the same can be said of quarantining people coming from other countries?
As the incubation rate can be up to two weeks its not as easy to apply the same logic for someone just coming into the country. If the incubation rate was much shorter, I think there's a stronger argument for no quarantine.
So it isn't quarantine then.
I think we're pretty much saying the same thing by now. It makes sense if the infection rate of the destination is near 0, or if the infection rate of the source is vastly higher. The smaller the gap the smaller the uselfulness. I don't think it would have helped the UK much at all (save for an unbelievable early introduction with nearly no cases in the UK), the 100thousands who got infected were community transmissions, and to avoid the first transmissions into the country one would have needed a fortune teller. I hate Boris and the tories but the UK had some natural disadvantages, high density population, pub culture, very international, gutted NHS. Their actual failure came in the handling of the sick. But it wouldn't be hugely surprised if there's more people flying between China and the UK than between China and say NZ or AU, despite proximity (or used to, at least).
For a continental European country it makes almost no sense to quarantine with other continental countries at the moment, in my opinion, the costs vastly outweigh the slight benefits even for the country with a lower infection rate. By the same token one could just ask random people to quarantine for the same amount of time, it would have the same positive effect.
Which is the point I’m making. We aren’t quarantining from areas just as badly hit in the UK. We’re going round in circles.
That makes no difference.
That wasn't the point you wete making . You said quarantine makes no difference. Which it does. That was the point which you continually try to avoid. Just admit you were wrong and move in.
Or just move on.
This started from acnumber9 saying quarantine makes no difference. Which it obviously does.
If a government decides the economic benefits of ignoring the health benefits of a particular action is worth the sacrifice then that is a decision rhey will have to defend at the next election.
It makes next to no difference if community transmission is already rife and at a similar level to quarantine zones. You’ve provided no evidence to the contrary. I’m done with the debate. You can argue arrogantly with somebody else.
I don't need to as you are the only one making it up as you go along.
Quarantine is a vital tool that all of the succesful countries have used to great effect e.g. N.Z, Australia, Taiwan, so I have no idea why you want to pretend otherwise.
Because community infection wasn’t rife and they had local border lockdowns. That’s not the case in UK. Which is what I’ve said from the start.
You said quarantine makes no difference. Which it does.
Whilst totally accepting that quarantining is a very effective tool I think it is absurd to attempt to transpose the Aussie experience to the U.K. For example the total number of visitor and resident moves into Australia during the period Jan to March 2020 was less than 3 million. The U.K. 21 million. You might as well try to compare apples and bananas. July figures for Australia both visitors and returnees is less than 5k. Easy to quarantine that number. Almost impossible when you have open borders as every EU country has experienced.
No difference within the circumstances I laid out. You can’t just cut the sentence short because it suits you and can’t accept being wrong.
Over 12,000 positive cases today, 49 deaths.
That's a +,5,000 increase over yesterday. Anyone know why the sudden jump?
That's a +,5,000 increase over yesterday. Anyone know why the sudden jump?
@F-Red is slacking, nearly 13 k new uk cases today, almost doubling the previous record set on Tuesday.
Edit- damnit Dave.
Edit- damnit Dave.
On the independent it says
The government also said that totals reported “over the coming days” will be higher as a result of a technical issue which delayed the reporting cases from between 24 September and 1 October. However it is not clear how much this glitch has contributed to today’s figure
It was a bit of a shock reading 12, 000 though
Apparently a technical issue from 24th Sep to 1st Oct, so cases today and over the next few days will be much higher.
France posted just under 17k today and have been very high all week though.
Worrying for Italy is they did 2800k cases, Germany still just about keeping a lid on it.
I guess we’ll find out over the coming week.
I was checking at 4pm and there was no data, then headed out for the evening. Missed a good day for it as well!
From what I can see from the data, the breakdown of dates for today's case number is as follows:
38 from yesterday
3,654 Thurs (34%)
1,313 Wed (12%)
558 Tues (5%)
618 Mon
1,263 Sun
794 last Sat
550 last Fri
724 last Thurs
721 last Wed
153 last Tues
69 last Mon
257 last Sun
94 from before then
I would hazard a guess of about 5k additional on what would be a normal volume from the current time to return tests (some 2.5-3 days).
Got a family friend who is Chinese. She was a nurse in china. She’s telling us today that some of her old colleagues are saying that doctors & nurses in China are now starting to get vaccines
They’re using them as subjects in a trial. They’re getting a vaccine that hasn’t been fully tested/approved yet. Crazy really.
? Doesn't someone have to get it before it is approved
In controlled trials, yes. Not in lieu of another vaccine.
You said quarantine makes no difference.
It does no matter what the infection rate of the source country.
This is your whole quote.
Then you seemed to switch to saying it doesn't make any difference if there is free movement between these areas. That isn't how quarantine works.
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I think they are really confident in the vaccine. Their officials/ diplomats have been receiving it. They won't use it on their senior leadership if they aren't confident
On the subject of trials, I was invited to the Novavax one last week. They said the trial will take 13 months / be completed in October 2021. Obviously they can cut it short if they get exceptional results but it just serves as a reminder for what the current timelines are on vaccine development.
I said no difference when going to work etc. I thought it was implied with the etc. And when I expanded my point you accused me of changing goalposts. You have a stick up your arse about this and can’t handle the fact you’re wrong.
What I mean by crazy is the way they’re giving it to people based on their job. One of the biggest ethical no no’s in running clinical trials is to put any kind of pressure on trial subjects to take part. If they’re giving this vaccine to all of their healthcare workers that will put a lot of pressure on them. How do you say no when all your peers/work colleagues are taking one for the team? They already did something similar with their army, I think? The ethics of it is all very dubious.
And China is usually so strict in their observance of ethical standards.
Exactly! I actually think it might have been Russia that was dosing its army in clinical trials. Another world leader of ethical compliance.
It was the Chinese giving the vaccine to their army 1st, and that was discussed ages ago already so they must have been pleased with the results of that effort.
The Russians were going to give it to their nurses and teachers 1st. They should have started with the politburo.
The Russians were going to give it to their nurses and teachers 1st. They should have started with the politburo.
Level 5 recommend for the entire country by nephet
Fecking hell. Really?!?
Yes, really 
Oh ffs. The government has pretty much implemented every single NEPHET recommendation so far yeah? Holohan back in work one day and now this.
Yup.