It’s because not every signing is going to work out. If it doesn’t work out then at least we need to have good chance to be able to get some money in return as profit or refund.
Sander Berge | Signs for Fulham
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
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He's definitely not the worst sort of profile in the world, we're not exactly blessed with players that are good in possession and can receive the ball under pressure.
Whether he'd be good enough for United though is the million dollar question.
Whether he'd be good enough for United though is the million dollar question.
If he's cheap enough I say take a punt on him. We have alot of games this season with the Europa League and he could do a decent job.
He is by quite a distance. As a defensive midfielder, Mctominay is really, really bad.
Why bother commenting if you haven't seen the guy play?
He was highly rated as a youngster before Sheffield United signed him wasn’t he? Seem to remember it was a bit of a coup that they’d managed to get him. Doesn’t seemed to have kicked on or lived up to that promise though.
Do you think he would be bouncing around the clubs he has done if he was? Even if a late bloomer, he would've been snapped up a long time ago by a suitor at a bargain bucket price the moment the window opened. Or do you think that's a false statement?
All clubs wish to upgrade on what they have, and if this guy was of true United standard, and available for so little, plenty of PL clubs would be in for him and he'd have a plethora of options to pick from.
Many have said in this same thread that it's funny how only due to him being linked with us today, he's suddenly a player who many see as an answer to some part of the United conundrum, whilst, for the entirety of the window preceding today, I don't believe he's been mentioned by anyone?
Burnley actually played good, progressive football last season, certainly more aesthetically pleasing and coherent than what we served up, but ultimately, their football was relegation standard and the plucking of gems from that side hasn't been forthcoming for a reason.
We should be aspiring to better footballers than this, even as stop gaps. It's not even an insult or being disparaging - we're supposedly trying to get back into the Champions League; this guy knows nothing but relegation. The leap in requirements is simply enormous.
You stated that he was being looked down upon because he plays for Burnley and/or because he got relegated, but the reality is that when there is a player performing well beyond the team or league he's in, people actually become extremely covetous, not indifferent.
Finally, I have said myself that the other players we have been linked to in midfield are incomplete and need someone else accompanying them this window, but they are, at least, top level players who are doing enough to spark interest that is genuine and came about, clear as day in the earliest part of the window.
If Berge is simply a placeholder until we make a big move on a touted player (such as Wharton) farther down the line, we may as well stick with Amrabat. Cheaper, know the club (now) and, one would pray, can't be as bad this campaign as he was in the last.
No because he isn’t good enough read the conversationSo, basically, we should not sign Berge because of James
We were short in attack. We signed a player with a high chance of not working out. Stupid signing
The sun claim 30m pounds
If we sign him his chant should be Auberge by Chris Rea.
‘This is the naked truth, this is the light
There’s only one man left to sign…..
Sander Berge do-do do do-do-do
Sander Berge do-do do do-do do etc..’
‘This is the naked truth, this is the light
There’s only one man left to sign…..
Sander Berge do-do do do-do-do
Sander Berge do-do do do-do do etc..’
From the very limited I've seen and as it's been mentioned in this thread already, his style reminds me of Matic in a good way.
Seemingly languid but at the same time sharp movement with decent control of the ball (safe and sturdy on it), prioritising getting goal side when defending and uses his body to generate uncomfortable body contact (for the opposition player on the ball) when tackling or jostling. Although many have said he's fast, whilst I can believe he's got good straight line speed due to his stride, I don't think he's recovering if a player gets past or he over commits. Thankfully, it doesn't seem like he does dive in too much but it will be a worry if we play the same suicidal open space midfield crap we did last season. Judging by our pre-season, we may be playing a two but the same issue still persists; we're more organised (not really a hard thing to do) but still flooding everyone forward to press without really any contingency or nuance when the opposition play through it.
As a (cheap) squad option I'd take him over McTominay or Amrabat anyday.
Seemingly languid but at the same time sharp movement with decent control of the ball (safe and sturdy on it), prioritising getting goal side when defending and uses his body to generate uncomfortable body contact (for the opposition player on the ball) when tackling or jostling. Although many have said he's fast, whilst I can believe he's got good straight line speed due to his stride, I don't think he's recovering if a player gets past or he over commits. Thankfully, it doesn't seem like he does dive in too much but it will be a worry if we play the same suicidal open space midfield crap we did last season. Judging by our pre-season, we may be playing a two but the same issue still persists; we're more organised (not really a hard thing to do) but still flooding everyone forward to press without really any contingency or nuance when the opposition play through it.
As a (cheap) squad option I'd take him over McTominay or Amrabat anyday.
Don't really see the massive backlash to this. The price is cheap and he's a solid dm. Pretty much any Burnley fan would tell you he was their best player by a mile last season and he played well most games I saw him. Did well at Sheffield Utd too.
Can't comment on his performances for Norway, but plenty of better players have consistently underperformed at international level and Norway in general are underperforming given the quality at their disposal imo.
Casemiro will almost certainly be starting if he isn't sold. Sorry to break it to ye. Just hope he can get back to his best or near his best. Berge would be a solid squad player who can be rotated and brought in on a low wage.
Can't comment on his performances for Norway, but plenty of better players have consistently underperformed at international level and Norway in general are underperforming given the quality at their disposal imo.
Casemiro will almost certainly be starting if he isn't sold. Sorry to break it to ye. Just hope he can get back to his best or near his best. Berge would be a solid squad player who can be rotated and brought in on a low wage.
If he was ever going to be a player worth signing for a top level club he'd shown it but he does have some interesting traits that can make him a useful squad player. If he can be got for a fee under £20m it allows us to get him and another more talented player who could take a bit of time to settle while he and Case hobble along.
Also he could surprise us, but I am not putting too much hope on that.
He's not similar to McTominay
Sorry, but is there anything in this post that you really believe is relevant in regards to us potentially signing Berge?
There's zero insight or discussion about the player's attributes or anything, just things like collective results such as relegation, and assumptions about what he knows or doesn't know, and why hasn't he left Burnley yet. You also have no information about whether other clubs want him or not.
And yes, the first paragraph of your post is a false statement. Do you really believe every good player that gets relegated is "snapped up" on the first day of the summer window? How many good players have there been that not only didn't immediately move back to the PL but even stayed with their team in the Championship? Just some recent and current examples that disprove your point:
-Crysencio Summerville spent a whole season in the Championship before being bought by West Ham just a few days ago who have had ambitions of European football for several seasons now.
-Gyökeres spent several years in the Championship before getting his move to Sporting, one of the best clubs across the continent when it comes to eye for a talent and seeing a potential big money-making opportunity.
-Several players who have been relegated last season, but are definitely good enough for the Premier League (and yes, even to be squad players for a top 6 team) and haven't been snapped up yet: Mengi, Doughty, Chong, Brewster, Davies, Trafford, Berge, Ramsey, O'Shea, and there are probably more.
-And then you can just look at the current Leeds and Leicester squads: Leeds haven't been promoted and Leicester were in the Championship last year. Both squads are filled with players who are good enough for the PL. And most of the other teams in the top 10 have at least one or two players who are good enough to play in the PL, like Ben Sheaf at Coventry, who also haven't got his big move despite clearly being good enough.
Also, to be honest, all this discussion is somewhat pointless anyways, because the Championship is arguably not even weaker than the Eredivisie or the Portuguese league. If Berge stays with Burnley, he will be playing in a league that's almost undoubtedly in the top 10 European leagues. I don't see why him not getting a move back to the PL within the first month of the summer transfer window is apparently such a red flag? We don't know why it hasn't happened, we don't know what the player wants, and we don't know which teams want him and which teams don't want him.
One more thing: Why wasn't Adam Wharton snapped up before this January? 12 months ago he was starting the season with Blackburn. A team that didn't even get close to being in the fight for promotion had a 100 million talent player on their hands, and it was Crystal Palace who got him in the end. Do you think the fact that not all 20 PL teams were in the race to sign him means he's not a top player?
I don't think there's anyone who could play DM in that suicidal setup we played last season. Not Rice, not Rodri, not Tchouameni. So it shouldn't be taken into consideration IMO as it's irrelevant. We've also been only linked with double-pivot players for the midfield too, which says a lot.
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Burnley are asking for £30m according to reports.
It’s a pass at that price, especially if FDJ is truly available for 40m.
We’re going to end up with Amrabat again aren’t we?
Yup, last minute deal.It’s a pass at that price, especially if FDJ is truly available for 40m.
We’re going to end up with Amrabat again aren’t we?
Depressing if we go into the season with the same midfield options as last season.
While it is a poor set of options I’m even more of us knee jerking our way to another set of poor signings we will either struggle to offload or keep around because they can do a job. Like Amrabat or all these other chaps we are linked to. Rather hold on to the cash for someone actually good.
I am all for that. Rather spend another season in the purgatory then go for players who are going to become deadwood a season down the line. We really really need one top defensive midfielder, a very good CM to rotate with Mainoo and another top CB. Don't want us to compromise on either of those positions.
I am still confused at the money situation. I believe it's a whole of posturing from INEOS so that we don't have to overpay for our targets and can get rid of some of current deadwood at decent prices. Hopefully, something will come out of the left field as the current links are not going to move the needle towards a team ready to challenge for big titles.
Getting a little impatient, though.
I have serious doubts about Ugarte and Zubimendi, also. It does not mean I'm going to go into their threads and break their games down to minutiae. At least those players are perhaps halves of what I believe is needed.
Berge is a decent, tidy player, for a team with ambitions of staying in the PL, which, has been his wheelhouse thus far. If you genuinely believe he's done anything that would have the CL hopeful teams looking his way then good luck to you. He's exactly where he should be, and if picked up by a PL club by the end of the window, he's done fantastically well for himself.
And in answer to your question, if you have enough buzz about you in the CS, and are young enough, yes, you will be snapped up. The lines muddy with players in their mid to late 20's. I did not know of Berge's history as a touted youngster, and perhaps he is a late bloomer. He may also come in and take to it like a fish to water - that's when scouts look like geniuses. The other side of the coin is he looks like a player who is out of his depth and won't have meaningful contribution to the squad in terms of elevating it. If we just want another body 'that can do a job' you don't go out and spend £20m+; that's what academies and loans are for.
Your final paragraph. are you really asking why a teenager who clubs were keeping tabs on but weren't totally sure about, before he took to the PL like a duck to water is not viewed through the same lens as a 26-year old player who has had seasons under his belt to be assessed in full? How about using a different example? Archie Gray was a youngster all the PL clubs were alerted to (as with his brother) and it was a case of when and not if the trigger was going to be pulled. But regardless, the teen into very early 20's is a wholly different kettle of fish to what is being discussed.
Getting the right players for the right system at the right price seems paramount and looking at some of his stats including ball recoveries and pace as well as long passing I can kinda see how we arrived here.
Sounds like a good option to play the 1 in a 3-1-6 that we transition to in attack (PS: I'm not actually a fan of this as an attacking transition and would prefer the more traditional 3-2-5 for more stability) .
Sounds like a good option to play the 1 in a 3-1-6 that we transition to in attack (PS: I'm not actually a fan of this as an attacking transition and would prefer the more traditional 3-2-5 for more stability) .
I'm curious to know why you think Ugarte would solve more issues for us than Berge.
Ball carrying: Berge >>> Ugarte
Passing range: Berge >>> Ugarte
Duel winning: Berge >>> Ugarte
These are all very important IMO, and the better passing especially matters, as either of them would be in a double-pivot with Mainoo...who's a great player already, and I love him, but he doesn't have the passing range yet. It's something that he might never even develop, but that's fine. For now, we need to find someone to complement him and someone who can do the things he cannot.
Ugarte doesn't seem to have the required discipline either, which would often lead to big problems and disorganization IMO.
Regarding just your opinion about Berge: I don't think he's a long-term solution, even though I want to see him signed over the other options. I don't think the club view him as the solution for our midfield either, but it's looking like impossible that we will find that player this summer. So no matter who we get, it's almost certain that we'll still have a truly elite long-term target for the midfield who we will almost certainly enter the market for within the next 24 months. Why would we spend 50m on Ugarte, who isn't the optimal addition anyway (and like I said, for me someone like Berge is not only cheaper but the better fit as well), when the better option also allows you to still go big on someone like Wharton in the not so distant future?
Like I said in a previous post of mine in this thread, Tomiyasu to Arsenal is a great example I can to compare the potential signing of Berge to: Cheap, floor-raiser addition to a squad that's undergoing a big rebuild, which allows us to bring in the expensive, ceiling-raiser addition when they become available. That's when the cheap, floor-raiser signing from a few years ago can either be sold for profit or a break-even fee, or stay as a good squad player if they're content with it. If we want Ugarte to be this player, PSG would have to significantly lower their demands, as well for the player to accept a low salary, otherwise they'll become an asset that we will be making a loss on, and even then they'll be still difficult to get rid of.
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Yes, it would be great to have someone that can receive under pressure, with their back to goal, and actually carry the ball forward as well, instead of treating the ball like a ticking bomb. Berge is easily way superior in these than either Casemiro or Ugarte.
I think this is sensible, clubs smell our desperation and we should resist the urge to do business just for the sake of it or to appease desperate fans. If deals can't be don't build the midfield around Mainoo and blood in a few kids even if it costs us the season but it's way better than loading up more expensive bargage that we will struggle to sell.
I am a bit disappointed in our scouts and maybe the decisions we made to lock in on a couple of expensive but uninspiring targets. I can't believe that there are no young DMs/CBs in the 23-26 age bracket that would cost fees circa 35-40m who can be scouted, come in and do a job whilst we transition. Hell get a DM from the Championship for all I care but do some scouting.
Really really hope this is a real possible transfer and not just fake news...would love it if we signed him!
£22-23m and Burnley will accept and the player obviously its a no brainer, he'll be over the moon.
Come on Jim!
£22-23m and Burnley will accept and the player obviously its a no brainer, he'll be over the moon.
Come on Jim!
You won't find a post of mine that is truly or fully on-board with Ugarte. I have voiced concerns about him as I don't believe he is what we should be looking for and I have bigger doubts about him as an actual footballer than I do Berge.
I don't believe either player is what we should be looking at, but Ugarte is intended to be some kind of terrier and nuisance, applying pressures to the ball and covering space in midfield and we're crap at that, given the genius of moving Fred on.
Not supplementing Mainoo is the biggest concern of the entire window for me. We had the potential to have one of the best midfields in the league, now we're looking down the barrel of an injury to Mainoo being ruinous to our season's aspirations (CL place). So midfield is, and was, the greatest concern before the window opened and even more so now, seeing who we're linked with beyond one elite talent in Neves. We're currently even weaker in midfield than we were last season... that's not a good look with less than a month until the window closes.
If Berge is supposed to be what we pursue as a tide over until better talent can be entertained next summer, why bother. As I said, that's what loans and your academy are for.
Your points aren't unfair, I just have doubts they are easy to apply to a player like Berge. Coming to a cauldron like this club, after bouncing around relegation and Championship level teams is a massive ask, and something I don't think gets acknowledged often enough. It mightn't be plug and play. Of course, he might be one who thrives in this environment... but one of the reasons they are brought in young is to condition to the pressure cooker scrutinies of the club - that or loaning when unsure - just to see whether they can cope before committing.
Ironically, you take punts like this from positions of strength, where it doesn't matter if the player works out. At least you tried, in a safe, controlled environment with next to no fallout should it not come off. We, on the other hand, are in desperate need of improvement with next to no margin for error; the exact opposite of optimal conditions to be taking speculative punts.
Berge would actually be coming here under undue but enormous amounts of pressure. You talk about him raising the bottom level, that's not a formality or easy to do. That means he's come in and been rock solid and dependable, which in turn suggests he is of the prerequisite ability to be in the rotation for a CL qualification chasing side.
It's a bigger ask than his career to date suggests he is capable of.
I agree with @Fortitude here. Ultimately, we're desperately in need of someone to come into our midfield that will improve us. Signing Berge - if this was the Fergie era - would be fine, as it's a low-risk transfer that may or may not work out, and one who's being brought in to supplement a good team, rather than elevate it. While Berge may not be a bad player, there's little to suggest that he's good enough to improve us.
I think it entirely depends on how much he's costing. If he's only £10-15m, you'd be hard pushed to get better for that money and is better than Amrabaat (not that I'm on board with him coming back, but some people are). I would certainly prefer a player with a bigger scope for improvement and more obvious ball playing qualities, but he has enough qualities from a physical perspective to improve our midfield. Mainoo, Eriksen, Casemiro and Amrabaat is all hes contending with on that front.
No chance for 30m, he's a £15m player. If we have to go into the season with the same midfield as last season then so be it, we can't let teams keep on adding a United tax for their players.
Has the fee quoted not been around the 30m mark? If so, I fail to see the point in spending that kind of money on someone who won't improve us. At best, he's a squaddie. But right now, we need someone of a higher quality before we look at squaddies. I just don't think he's particularly good tbh, not bad, but just fairly meh.
Debatable Quality…but there’s something undeniably appealing to me about his style/profile of footballer (judging off the clips). It feels like what we’ve missed with our clunky build up.
Haven’t seen him enough but from the clips it’s seems like he’s very comfortable receiving it with back to goal and under pressure. Only KM has offered anything close to that. Imagine having two (Like we did with PS and MC)…I don’t think teams would be as adventurous with their pressing against us.
He might not be the answer. But Ugarte feels like a fred type player…we’ve already seen what that looks like for us style wise.
Haven’t seen him enough but from the clips it’s seems like he’s very comfortable receiving it with back to goal and under pressure. Only KM has offered anything close to that. Imagine having two (Like we did with PS and MC)…I don’t think teams would be as adventurous with their pressing against us.
He might not be the answer. But Ugarte feels like a fred type player…we’ve already seen what that looks like for us style wise.
I'm going off what he went for when he went down last time, I haven't seen any fee being quoted to be honest. Agree if it is that, I'd rather take a risk on someone that spend that on a middle of the road player.
30m 
feck off Burnley. Pay 50m for Ugarte and move on
feck off Burnley. Pay 50m for Ugarte and move onInteresting player. A little bit of Carrick and he can move past players like Frenkie with pace and power.
I would not be against this move.
I would not be against this move.
I haven't really been following the story but I've seen a few in here throw around a 30m figure.
Has anyone reliable reported this £30M figure or is this coming from The Sun?
He's been rubbish for Sheffield Utd and rubbish with Burnley.........why on earth should this be our level?
He's got nothing at all of either Carrick or De Jong - your comparing a bang average journey man footballer with elite level players. Get a grip
Honestly - if Berge is the answer we are miles better off just signing Amrabat and keeping hold of McTominey.
Reeks of desperation and certainly a lack of ambition
Reeks of desperation and certainly a lack of ambition
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