Yeah seems frustrating. I'd rather sign no one than be hoodwinked on a fee.
Sander Berge | Signs for Fulham
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
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I dont think there's a club in world football who would sign someone for £12m and then sell them to Manchester United the following season for anything less than double that fee.
I will try to add a more sober assessment on whether Berge would be interesting for us, and maybe also try to read INEOS' mind why he's at all being considered. My stand would be somewhere between the "absolutely not" and "go ahead".
At young age, Berge - along with Ødegaard and Haaland - was seen as one of Norway's most promising talents, and already when playing for Gent at age of 19, he attracted a lot of interest from bigger clubs. At Gent, however, he had a serious set-back in his development when he was out for almost a full season (17/18) with a torn muscle bundle. The following season, he lost more than 2 months with knee and calf problems. After Sheffield United signed him before the 20/21 season, he suffered another setback with a hamstring (surgery) that set him out of play for 3 months, and then the season after, he was out for 2 months, again with hamstring problems. After each injury, it took him a while to get up to speed, and only last season at Burnley, we started to see more of what he is capable of when staying fit, and of late, he has started to perform better and better also for the national team. Today, he would be one of the first names on the team sheet, along with Ødegaard, Haaland and Bobb.
There has always been a feeling around Berge, that he possesses an unreleased potential which has been hindered by his injuries. His injuries alone, is an argument for not signing him, because despite of him staying fit last season, he has a history of being injury prone, and he might not survive Ten Hag's "survival of the fittest" approach. However, if he stays fit, he obviously has the talent to become a top player, and his unreleased potential - along with his stats - is maybe the reason why our recruitment team are having a serious look at him.
In the end, if would be a gamble, but I don't share the opinion that he necessarily would be a bad signing for us, and that he under no circumstances would improve our team. There is a reason why United have been in contact with this representatives, and there is a reason why INEOS may want to sign him for the right price. For 15-20m, I think it might be worth the risk.
At young age, Berge - along with Ødegaard and Haaland - was seen as one of Norway's most promising talents, and already when playing for Gent at age of 19, he attracted a lot of interest from bigger clubs. At Gent, however, he had a serious set-back in his development when he was out for almost a full season (17/18) with a torn muscle bundle. The following season, he lost more than 2 months with knee and calf problems. After Sheffield United signed him before the 20/21 season, he suffered another setback with a hamstring (surgery) that set him out of play for 3 months, and then the season after, he was out for 2 months, again with hamstring problems. After each injury, it took him a while to get up to speed, and only last season at Burnley, we started to see more of what he is capable of when staying fit, and of late, he has started to perform better and better also for the national team. Today, he would be one of the first names on the team sheet, along with Ødegaard, Haaland and Bobb.
There has always been a feeling around Berge, that he possesses an unreleased potential which has been hindered by his injuries. His injuries alone, is an argument for not signing him, because despite of him staying fit last season, he has a history of being injury prone, and he might not survive Ten Hag's "survival of the fittest" approach. However, if he stays fit, he obviously has the talent to become a top player, and his unreleased potential - along with his stats - is maybe the reason why our recruitment team are having a serious look at him.
In the end, if would be a gamble, but I don't share the opinion that he necessarily would be a bad signing for us, and that he under no circumstances would improve our team. There is a reason why United have been in contact with this representatives, and there is a reason why INEOS may want to sign him for the right price. For 15-20m, I think it might be worth the risk.
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Surely the question is why we're in for him at all if we don't think he's worth 30m? It's not like he's some untested kid, he's not far from his prime and well established as a PL player.
I think he's a good player, but I struggle to see that he's got a credible potential to be an important player at a big club. Good allrounder, but he just doesn't have that level of quality. Also, I struggle to see where and how he fits into the picture at United. He is decidedly not a #6. In a 4231, he's fairly obviously an #8. He's not better than Mainoo or Mount, nor does he really add very much they don't, other than perhaps physical strength. He is nowhere near the passer Eriksen still is.
Well. He's 26. To say at this stage that he "obviously has the talent to become a top player" and assume that there's a lot of "unreleased potential" seems a bit speculative to me? I've only watched him in the PL and the national team, but I can't say that has made a very obvious case for top player talent. Good player, yes. But not top.
They are both tall and they both have legs. What more do you want!
Yep, I don't disagree with that in theory, but this is a player that's been in England for 4 years (?), and hardly set the World alight. He isn't under the radar, simply under whelming. So I just don't think it bodes particularly well if Berge is where we are diverting our attention.
Or, he could be one of those players that kicks on to a much higher level. Identifying players like that is why we brought in Berrada and Ashworth?
It is taking a punt, so 30 million would be crazy. Better to look elsewhere, we probably aren‘t getting him for a reasonable fee.
They just got relegated mate. 18-20M is a fair price
fecking Christ. It’s like we want to finish 8th again.
Top or good would be a matter of opinion and definition of course. Still, I think it's safe to say that he has not reached the potential he looked to have as a youngster, and his lengthy injuries have contributed to that. If he can stay fit, I think there is hope that he'll get closer to become the player everybody thought he would be. I'm not saying he's sure to become good for us, but neither do I agree that he surely won't. Is he worth the risk? Depends on his price tag, imo. Compared to Amrabat, however, I've seen no proof that the latter would be a better signing. Maybe signing them both would be the better solution (30-35m in total), and hope that at least one of them will work.
If we get him for a good fee I have a feeling he will end up being one of our better performers in midfield in games.
No settling in period for this signing already knows the premier league.
No settling in period for this signing already knows the premier league.
Fair price is irrelevant.
But it’d still be a catastrophically shite signing for £18m so it’s also mute.
That sounds to me, like stockpiling yet another 2 players that we are not going to be able to get rid of when we realize that they aren't going to take us to where we want to be.
Just stockpiling “decent squad options”. except what used to be decent squad options are now not even premier league worthy players, let alone United worthy.
This is why it is the muppet season. Logic goes out the window.
I can guarantee there will be Liverpool fans out there comparing their new target from Sociedad to Xabi Alonso. I haven't looked for it yet, but know if i went on twitter and typed their two names in, they'd be there. Same for RAWK most likely.
If United sell McTominay and gazump the deal, they'll have never wanted him and he'll be the new Ander Herrera.
I've gone off point but hopefully a point is in there somewhere.
Hardly a large sample size of examples to use as precedent who’ve been in English football for that long and then suddenly burst to life at a bigger club at 26. I can’t think of any recent ones.
We’re struggling to get 30m for McTominay, why should Sander Berge be worth more? Someone is having a laugh
I would keep McT ahead of signing him tbh. Just seems so pointless, especially if there is any truth to the 30m fee.
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It seems a bit pointless to me. I feel like we are scraping the barrel now with no money in our wallet
How are we going to compete with City if we spend like Everton
You can’t take knickers off a bare arse
We need two midfielders if we intend to sell McT or Case. We probably identified Ugarte and another to bring in, the other possibly being Amrabat. I think Berge is more of an alternative to Amrabat than Ugarte.
With any transfer its about the whole package. If the fee isn't a piss take then any incoming midfielder only has to perform better that a semi-retired Casemiro and McTom who is more of a CF than a midfielder.
The expectations are rock bottom at this point.
The expectations are rock bottom at this point.
Sander Berge had the best ball retention rate out of ALL midfielders, in ALL top five leagues around Europe last season...
His ball-carrying style is reminiscent of Matic.
While the midfield options we've been linked with are somewhat underwhelming, it's crucial to find someone who complements Kobbie and Mount, as they are likely to be our main options at the 8 position. Here's what they currently lack:
While the midfield options we've been linked with are somewhat underwhelming, it's crucial to find someone who complements Kobbie and Mount, as they are likely to be our main options at the 8 position. Here's what they currently lack:
- Physicality
- Long Passing
- Aerial Duels
- A First-Phase Player
- Progressive Carries
Funnily enough I remember him being dubbed a 'Matic Jnr' when he was first being linked to the PL.
Where did you read that? He was 10th in the Premier League when it comes to that one stat alone.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5504921/2024/05/19/premier-league-2023-24-alternative-awards/
Based on that, coughing up the £5m Luton wanted for Ross Barkley would have been a much better deal when it comes to rummaging around in the bargain bin.
With casemiro staying a backup in Berge is not a bad option, especially with our lack of funds. Replace Casemiro next year with a first team player.
Bruno/Mount
Mainoo/Eriksen Casemiro/Berge
Bruno/Mount
Mainoo/Eriksen Casemiro/Berge
Just a couple things, when people are comparing him to former great players I’m sure it’s more to describe style of play rather than their level.
As much as he hasn’t probably fulfilled the potential he had at 19 and 20 doesn’t mean that his fundamentals disappear or he can’t improve.
Base level was mentioned and I can see why. He will be more ready to go than players like Gore, Collyer and Mejbri and provide something different to guys like Mctominay and Casimero. He can sit and carry the ball. Matic was a good comparison.
I’m not against signings like this and Zirkee. Players who have talent but not necessarily fulfilled it yet. Neither are popular or the current trend names but could be smart business.
As much as he hasn’t probably fulfilled the potential he had at 19 and 20 doesn’t mean that his fundamentals disappear or he can’t improve.
Base level was mentioned and I can see why. He will be more ready to go than players like Gore, Collyer and Mejbri and provide something different to guys like Mctominay and Casimero. He can sit and carry the ball. Matic was a good comparison.
I’m not against signings like this and Zirkee. Players who have talent but not necessarily fulfilled it yet. Neither are popular or the current trend names but could be smart business.
City isn't our competitor this year anyway . Remember who Klopp got when he took over ? Lot of dross ! We have to build to City's level. It won't happen in one window
The midfield Weghorst. No thanks.
Isn’t the way to do that by waiting and changing your recruitment standards? Otherwise you’re just going to end up in the same cycle of clearing out the deadwood you got to replace the previous deadwood. Berge as a replacement for McT stinks of that.
This is so incorrect it’s unreal
I admit I know nothing about Berge, other than having heard his name mentioned over the years. What are his strengths/weaknesses, and do you think he would be a good buy for our midfield?
I would have thought that progressive carries (where Mainoo and Mount are in the 47th and 69th percentiles, respectively) is less of an issue than progressive passing (Mainoo 9th percentile / Mount 21st percentile).
I agree on the rest of your criteria for an ideal midfield partner for them. I think Ederson fits the criteria pretty well.
There may be relegation clause terms written into his contract for all we know.
Players dont always go up in value. When they signed him he was part of their business to stay in the premier league and they failed.
For example Amdouni cost £15.9 million and has a pretty good record for the Swiss. He got 5 goals and in general the team struggled for goals
If he leaves this summer it could easily be for less than they paid as he didnt do the job that was expected of him
Odobert on the other hand did well for a 19 year old I'm sure his price has increased from the £10.32 million they paid for him
Its probably not the same for Berge who isnt a teen
Also Burnley's spend last summer will no doubt force sales now they failed to stay in the league. They've sold Muric but not for a lot. I'm sure there will be others before the new season kicks off
Berge is a decent player and adds the physicality we need in midfield. He may rise to the challenge here, or at the very least, tide us over and provide a cheap useful option for a season or two.
He’s shit, what is actually going on on this forum. Are people so desperate for any midfield signing that they’ll get all hot and bothered over this clod hopper?
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