Sander Berge | Signs for Fulham

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diarm said:
That's a fair point. i certainly don't have a list of players available who I think could fill that role.

I just worry about the idea of a player who covers a lot of ground and presses well being enough. Fred did that and our midfield was a mess.
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It’s so hard to know if a player is enough in isolation - how the team is set up, strengths/weaknesses of other midfielders, etc. are all integral factors as well. I’m just happy that there are seasoned professionals at the club (Ashworth, Wilcox, etc) to help ETH figure this all out, instead of the usual pre-season dread I’ve felt for the past 5-10 years.

To your point about Fred, he was set up next to McT for many years as double pivot, which exacerbated his weaknesses. If he were just to chase the ball around and relay to a better ball-playing CM partner, he would’ve probably done much better. In his case, he had McT who never wanted the ball in CM and didn’t really know what to do with it besides passing straight back to Fred and/or CBs, of course the midfield was a mess.
 
NoPace said:
This happens with national teams though, especially early in a player's career. Darwin's worst moments are laughable, but he's got 20 goals and 11 assists in 41 Prem Starts + 24 sub appearances in his age 23/24 seasons, which isn't bad really. Works hard, creates for others more than most #9s.

He's a level ahead of your useful but very limited starting wingers and in time should prove that.

But yeah, good sign that Bielsa preferred Ugarte to Bentancur. Would be nice to have a midfielder here that very few like playing against (when he's on his game) for once, and some legs to help out Mainoo and Casemiro and their mobility issues defensively.
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He is useful, bit wasteful. I would have loved to have our current midfield 10 years ago though :devil:
 
hobbers said:
Berge looks decent for Burnley in a similar way to how AWB looked good for Palace or Maguire for Hull/Leicester. Except he’s obviously playing at an even lower level than them.

Unless we’re talking about a midfielder playing well in a team that is comfortable with the ball, dominating games, lions share of possession, creating chances and not conceding 2 goals a game, it means nowt.
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I'm pretty sure that Burnley had a huge amount of possession in most games last season including VS ourselves. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/live/cyrly5n6gx2t#Line-ups

Whether that proves he's any good or whether it just suggests how absolutely bobbins we are at keeping the football I don't know, but Burnley absolutely were a side that dominated possession. It's part of the reason Kompany was taken by Bayern Munich: he set up that little side REALLY well.
 
GazTheLegend said:
I'm pretty sure that Burnley had a huge amount of possession in most games last season including VS ourselves. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/live/cyrly5n6gx2t#Line-ups

Whether that proves he's any good or whether it just suggests how absolutely bobbins we are at keeping the football I don't know, but Burnley absolutely were a side that dominated possession. It's part of the reason Kompany was taken by Bayern Munich: he set up that little side REALLY well.
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However good we made them look, they averaged 46% possession over the season which puts them 12th/13th best similar to the likes of Brentford.
 
Rojofiam said:
Okay then, go on and show me footage where Ugarte is better at carrying the ball, receiving under pressure with his back to goal, progressive passing, winning 1v1 duels, and ball retention.
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Where have I ever said that Ugarte is better than Berge.. Its not a Berge vs Ugarte for me.. I have not seen Ugarte, so I have no clue about what he brings to the table, or if he is what we need, but I have seen Berge a lot of times and I dont think he is good enough for United or any other top 6 club in PL.. He could well be better than Ugarte, but then we shouldnt go for him either.
 
AarhusUnited said:
Where have I ever said that Ugarte is better than Berge.. Its not a Berge vs Ugarte for me.. I have not seen Ugarte, so I have no clue about what he brings to the table, or if he is what we need, but I have seen Berge a lot of times and I dont think he is good enough for United or any other top 6 club in PL.. He could well be better than Ugarte, but then we shouldnt go for him either.
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You originally replied to my post (#1045) in which I explained why Berge might be the better option for us over Ugarte in my opinion, and you went on a rant about how it's embarrassing that United fans are "bigging him up" etc. :lol:
 
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Rojofiam said:
Only if the club know something we don’t and expect one of them to become available in one of the next transfer windows. Otherwise I don’t expect either of them to be on the market for many, many years.
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Did warn you it was wild
 
Rojofiam said:
You originally replied to my post (#1045) in which I explained why Berge might be the better option for us over Ugarte and went on a rant about how it's embarrassing that United fans are "bigging him up" etc. :lol:
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I see why you could think that, but it has nothing to do with Berge vs Ugarte.. Its about Berge not being good enough for a club United.
 
You wonder why they don't try a loan to buy deal like Amrabat had last summer. That way if he doesn't show he's up to the job we can let him go back to Burnley at the end of the season.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
All this does is make me irrationally dislike any of the muppets that suggest McTominay is important and needs to be kept just because he fluked his way to a few more goals than normal.

fecking embarassing for a 6'4 supposed hard man midfielder having a 23% duel win rate while not being able to pass a ball forward either.
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Mctominay doesn’t show for the ball and hides more often than not. He is hugely overrated by many because he’s got a goal in him.
 
Devil81 said:
You wonder why they don't try a loan to buy deal like Amrabat had last summer. That way if he doesn't show he's up to the job we can let him go back to Burnley at the end of the season.
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No real benefit to Burnley in that scenario really. Hes probably worth more to them than a small loan fee throughout the season.
 
£5-10m for a warm body we can throw on in midfield, yeah why not. £30m, or anything over £10m in fact, no fecking way. I’d probably prefer Fofana over either of Berge or Ugarte.
 
saik said:
That's fair. I don't think he's good enough to be starting week in week out but as a squad player I definitely don't mind him at all. Especially considering our midfield still has the likes of McT, Casemiro, Eriksen.

If we can get the Casemiro we got against City then there's no comparison at all. Casemiro is miles ahead the better player. But if we get the one we saw against Liverpool then it's a massive concern. Eriksen has more quality in his left peg than Berge has overall but his physicality is shot and he cannot cope with the intensity of this league. For those reasons, I don't mind Berge here, if we can get him on the cheap.
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Eriksen?

Eriksen is utter gash and brings nothing to the team. I am shocked they haven’t kicked him out yet. The guy can barely jog
 
cpresc said:
Eriksen?

Eriksen is utter gash and brings nothing to the team. I am shocked they haven’t kicked him out yet. The guy can barely jog
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Which is pretty much what I said. Berge is nowhere near Eriksen in terms of their quality on the ball but Eriksen is physically shot and we can't afford to use him like Denmark used at the Euros which makes Berge easily the better option than Eriksen. Especially if we want to use him as the deeper midfielder like we did in his first season here. Eriksen can still probably do a job at no.10 but we have Bruno and Mount there and Sancho, if we can't sell him, can fill in there too.
 
I think I would prefer Berge to Ugarte, personally, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I think I slightly prefer Berge’s profile - the physical advantage and the more elegant and composed would suit us better I feel. Secondly, while I like Ugarte, I’m not fully convinced that he’s our best long term 6 option, and the profile and expenditure of any deal would likely mean we have committed to a decision in that area if we go for him. Berge leaves the door ajar for us to go and get the right guy, even as soon as next summer if needed. I strongly suspect that right guy to be Adam Wharton, and I reckon signing Ugarte for 50m this summer ends that possibility.

So with Berge we get a good option now, who could even surprise many and become the answer, but if not, it’s not a huge financial commitment to a solution. He’s an, I hope, cheap signing from a relegated club, who we can upgrade at any point.
 
Rozay said:
I think I would prefer Berge to Ugarte, personally, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I think I slightly prefer Berge’s profile - the physical advantage and the more elegant and composed would suit us better I feel. Secondly, while I like Ugarte, I’m not fully convinced that he’s our best long term 6 option, and the profile and expenditure of any deal would likely mean we have committed to a decision in that area if we go for him. Berge leaves the door ajar for us to go and get the right guy, even as soon as next summer if needed. I strongly suspect that right guy to be Adam Wharton, and I reckon signing Ugarte for 50m this summer ends that possibility.

So with Berge we get a good option now, who could even surprise many and become the answer, but if not, it’s not a huge financial commitment to a solution. He’s an, I hope, cheap signing from a relegated club, who we can upgrade at any point.
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I don't think signing Ugarte this summer prevents us from making a massive midfielder signing next summer. Other than a left back, our defense is set, and depending on how Amad does this season, so is our attack. If Amad disappoints, it would be preferable to me if we moved Garnacho over to the right and sign a left winger, someone like Kvaratskhelia. Garnacho has shown to be very effective on the right as well, and there are far more better left wingers than right wingers.

If Amad turns out to be great this season - which I suspect given his attitude, drive and talent - then we arguably only need a midfielder and a left back for the next summer. This means we can chunk out a huge amount of money for a midfielder if we want to. Hopefully we will, because the midfield has been left out in the cold for too long in terms of quality.
 
Rozay said:
I think I would prefer Berge to Ugarte, personally, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I think I slightly prefer Berge’s profile - the physical advantage and the more elegant and composed would suit us better I feel. Secondly, while I like Ugarte, I’m not fully convinced that he’s our best long term 6 option, and the profile and expenditure of any deal would likely mean we have committed to a decision in that area if we go for him. Berge leaves the door ajar for us to go and get the right guy, even as soon as next summer if needed. I strongly suspect that right guy to be Adam Wharton, and I reckon signing Ugarte for 50m this summer ends that possibility.

So with Berge we get a good option now, who could even surprise many and become the answer, but if not, it’s not a huge financial commitment to a solution. He’s an, I hope, cheap signing from a relegated club, who we can upgrade at any point.
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Same. If we can give him a sensible salary (where number of games in squad is significant) we should easily be able to offload him. Consequently, I dont really think it is a big issue if he cost £25-30 mill either.

Maybe it would be possible to get him at £20 mill with further bonuses if he reaches 100 PL games or a sell on clause. Ensuring they likely get close to £30 mill either way.
 
andersj said:
Same. If we can give him a sensible salary (where number of games in squad is significant) we should easily be able to offload him. Consequently, I dont really think it is a big issue if he cost £25-30 mill either.

Maybe it would be possible to get him at £20 mill with further bonuses if he reaches 100 PL games or a sell on clause. Ensuring they likely get close to £30 mill either way.
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Indeed. And I don’t think we would need to offload him anyway if he’s a 20m signing, unless he is terrible. Casemiro will probably leave and I’m sure Berge would be happy to stay here even if we went big on another midfielder, just as Amrabat is happy to remain here as an understudy.

I think Ugarte is a different type of signing, who will expect to be the man.
 
Grand Vizier said:
I don't think signing Ugarte this summer prevents us from making a massive midfielder signing next summer. Other than a left back, our defense is set, and depending on how Amad does this season, so is our attack. If Amad disappoints, it would be preferable to me if we moved Garnacho over to the right and sign a left winger, someone like Kvaratskhelia. Garnacho has shown to be very effective on the right as well, and there are far more better left wingers than right wingers.

If Amad turns out to be great this season - which I suspect given his attitude, drive and talent - then we arguably only need a midfielder and a left back for the next summer. This means we can chunk out a huge amount of money for a midfielder if we want to. Hopefully we will, because the midfield has been left out in the cold for too long in terms of quality.
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The restriction is not financial, the restriction is about already having a good option, on good wages who was a big investment in the role. I think you sign a player like Ugarte because you see him as a long-term key first XI member.
 
Rozay said:
The restriction is not financial, the restriction is about already having a good option, on good wages who was a big investment in the role. I think you sign a player like Ugarte because you see him as a long-term key first XI member.
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Pre-INEOS, I'd probably agree with you, but I think INEOS won't be refusing to upgrade positions because we have decent players in a certain position. If we want to be a successful team and compete with City and Real Madrid, we need to be ruthless and upgrade on players despite having bought players for that position not long ago, especially if there are no financial restrictions, and I'm confident that SJR, Berrada and Ashworth all have these ambitions, and not limited ambitions like top 4 and CL qualification.
 
Rozay said:
Indeed. And I don’t think we would need to offload him anyway if he’s a 20m signing, unless he is terrible. Casemiro will probably leave and I’m sure Berge would be happy to stay here even if we went big on another midfielder, just as Amrabat is happy to remain here as an understudy.

I think Ugarte is a different type of signing, who will expect to be the man.
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I think you're onto something. It should also be noted what level they are expected to elevate us to. Is either player expected to elevate us to the levels of City or Arsenal and thus challenging for the title, then that player should be signed. If ETH and Ineos believe that Ugarte is the missing piece for that to happen, then go for it. However, if either player is a piece in making us top four contenders and making us more stable, then either option works, and as you said, one makes us more open for a quality signing next season. Not 100% with you, but close enough.
 
Scanny said:
How the f*** is Berge’s asking price £30 mill when AWB was less that £15 mill and United are willing to sell Scott McT for a lot less than £30 mill. Ridiculous valuation.
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Burnley taking the piss. The days of us throwing money at dross are over, clubs will soon realise that quickly.
 
Scanny said:
How the f*** is Berge’s asking price £30 mill when AWB was less that £15 mill and United are willing to sell Scott McT for a lot less than £30 mill. Ridiculous valuation.
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A) Those two were players with one year left on their contract
B) These where players Man Utd looked to offload to smaller clubs. Berge is a player Man Utd is looking to recruit from a smaller club. Players who can play for Man Utd have a higher value. Our assessment is, apparantly, that Berge can, while AWB and SM cant.
 
This is ridiculous. His profile is not greater than Scott Mctominay but they believe he is worth £30m.

It’s cliche but if City wanted him it would be £20m and a drink. We want him and it’s £30m and a Rolex.
 
zookeeper said:
To be fair, if we're taking only the national team matches into account, Ødegaard isnt exactly a world beater either. Lots of players who are very underwhelming on that national team.
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I would say Ødegaard has been great for the national team. It's Berge and the defensive players that have been letting us down. Huge blunders by the central defenders in crucial moments along with midfielders not tracking runners. Anyways, we can agree on the national team being a general dissapointment the last 24 years.
 
Uncle Mainoo said:
This is ridiculous. His profile is not greater than Scott Mctominay but they believe he is worth £30m.

It’s cliche but if City wanted him it would be £20m and a drink. We want him and it’s £30m and a Rolex.
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That assumes all of City's business is above board and they aren't greasing palms all over the shop to ensure they can sign players at deflated transfer values (for FFP purposes).
 
If we can get him for 20-25M, I'd get him over Ugarte tbh. My reasoning is kinda similar, Berge is

- Stronger
- Better in the air
- Better at passing

While Ugarte has better defensive metrics and is younger. But also 20-25M more expensive. I'd get Berge for the backup DM role.
Rozay said:
I think I would prefer Berge to Ugarte, personally, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I think I slightly prefer Berge’s profile - the physical advantage and the more elegant and composed would suit us better I feel. Secondly, while I like Ugarte, I’m not fully convinced that he’s our best long term 6 option, and the profile and expenditure of any deal would likely mean we have committed to a decision in that area if we go for him. Berge leaves the door ajar for us to go and get the right guy, even as soon as next summer if needed. I strongly suspect that right guy to be Adam Wharton, and I reckon signing Ugarte for 50m this summer ends that possibility.

So with Berge we get a good option now, who could even surprise many and become the answer, but if not, it’s not a huge financial commitment to a solution. He’s an, I hope, cheap signing from a relegated club, who we can upgrade at any point.
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Highfather_24 said:
If we can get him for 20-25M, I'd get him over Ugarte tbh. My reasoning is kinda similar, Berge is

- Stronger
- Better in the air
- Better at passing

While Ugarte has better defensive metrics and is younger. But also 20-25M more expensive. I'd get Berge for the backup DM role.
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Is he? I'm not so sure, would be pretty marginal if so. I think they're both pretty safe passers.

I think the first two are valid and the main selling point is he's cheaper and played in the league already.
 
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