Grim that it's still a possibility.
Sander Berge | Signs for Fulham
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
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Not likely and we'd just be stuffing our midfield with average players. At least Ugarte has a bigger scope for improvement and fits a profile of players we need under Ten Hag. Berge and Fofana half do in their respective positions and I'd say we don't need a Fofana at all.
Why is it so grim?
How do you know people have absolutely no insight in Berge?? Maybe we just dont agree with it, and more trust the eyetest and the CV, and if he was so good as YOU try to tell us, why didnt anyone but Sheffield United want him after Genk, and why did he end up at Burnley after Sheffield United.. Even now here late in the window noone but us seems to want him.. That is enough for me..
For the highlighted text that is just embarrassing.. Please grow up
Is he laking tonight?
What an overreaction
???
Berge is no where near the level of Ugarte. I've seen quite a bit of Berge as I am Norwegian and have seen him play for the national team, and he is nothing special. He might be a decent backup, but he is not good enough to be a starter for United. He is also not as mobile as Ugarte. I really hope we get him on the cheap if we are getting Berge...
The feck have you been smoking?
How is being grim an overreaction?
Graeme Souness is that you?
So much absolute shit being chat in here.
He’s not that bad, the overreaction is based purely on the fact he played for Sheffield United and Burnley but he was touted for big things once upon a time. He moved to England during covid and has been unlucky with injuries, now he finds himself in the Championship through no fault of his own.
He’s not going to score loads of goals but he’ll probably do the VDB role from Ten Hags Ajax team.
As a fellow Norwegian who watched the national team, i fully agree with your assessement.
Surely it's one or the other,have seen nothing yet to suggest we are looking to sign two midfielders
Quality over quantity!
I really don't think what that poster claimed is that outlandish. The only thing Ugarte excels at is defensive actions. Berge is better in other areas. There doesn't appear to be a lot between them.
Visual representation of their stats. I included Ugarte's stats from when he was at Sporting too as I felt he didn't play a lot at PSG and playing time is roughly the same and some of his stats went down quite a bit after he moved to PSG. Whether the drop off is just be due to him being new to the league or French league being stronger than Portuguese league is up for debate.
Ugarte is what he is, a defensive duelling monster. Fbref stats back it up too, if anyone is interested in checking it out. Berge appears to be the more rounded player + better in the air than Ugarte. I feel like people haven't actually watched them both play and only go off the bit about Berge playing for a relegated team.
I really don't think what that poster claimed is that outlandish. The only thing Ugarte excels at is defensive actions. Berge is better in other areas. There doesn't appear to be a lot between them.
Visual representation of their stats. I included Ugarte's stats from when he was at Sporting too as I felt he didn't play a lot at PSG and playing time is roughly the same and some of his stats went down quite a bit after he moved to PSG. Whether the drop off is just be due to him being new to the league or French league being stronger than Portuguese league is up for debate.
Ugarte is what he is, a defensive duelling monster. Fbref stats back it up too, if anyone is interested in checking it out. Berge appears to be the more rounded player + better in the air than Ugarte. I feel like people haven't actually watched them both play and only go off the bit about Berge playing for a relegated team.
I have watched Sander Berge play for our national team and for Vålerenga in Norwegian Tipppeliga/Eliteserien and when he played for Burnley, and i can say with hand on heart that he is not United class.
Hes a substandard holding midfielder, so no he wont be doing VDB's role at Ajax. But definitely could end up emulating VDB's role at United.
I think we need Fofana, he's quite similar to Mainoo (no one else in the squad is). He's less refined though more athletic. They could split time to prevent us from burning out Mainoo.
How much have you watched Ugarte play? Not trying to rile you up, just genuinely curious. I’ve only watched him primarily during the Copa, where he was very good. However, I don’t see him as a player we absolutely cannot miss out on.
In my opinion, Ugarte remains the club’s top midfield target. Still, it’s completely reasonable to explore other options if PSG remains firm on their €60m asking price. If reports are accurate about our £43m offer, that seems like a fair valuation given Ugarte's abilities and the fact that PSG is looking to offload him after just one season.
If they are not willing to budge, acquiring Berge as a squad player for around half what PSG are demanding would be a shrewd move in my opinion.
I have watched them both play - especially Berge - have you?
It feels like you didn't even read what I wrote before you quoted, replied and claimed I haven't watched them. If anything, it looks like *you* are purely going of stats and is the one who hasn't actually watched them play.
Ugarte isn't the perfect player and has his weaknesses, but his strengths are very suited to what United is missing to make the current pressing system work. The 4-2-4 press leaves a lot of room to cover, and for that Ugarte looks like a good fit - a much better fit than Berge who does not cover the same ground and is much less mobile. Is Ugarte the perfect player 3 years down the road? Probably not, but I do understand what they see in him at this stage if the rebuild.
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I just said Sander Berge is not United class.
I never claimed to watch Ugarte play much. I did like him when i saw him play for Sporting against Arsenal i think it was in Europe only.
Chance to watch him later tonight.
Am I wrong in thinking we don’t necessarily need another player who covers loads of ground and is unreal at pressing?
Do we not need a more disciplined head who can hold our shape and protect the defence when the press does get played around/through?
Preferably someone who can do that and also offer a decent forward passing option from deep.
Do we not need a more disciplined head who can hold our shape and protect the defence when the press does get played around/through?
Preferably someone who can do that and also offer a decent forward passing option from deep.
I did read what you wrote. You're original reply stated that you were Norwegian and watched quite a bit of Berge and not about Ugarte. So it was an assumption on my end that you haven't watched Ugarte much.
I have acknowledged already in this thread I haven't watched Berge play that much, so yea at this point I am pretty much going off of stats and highlights which don't look too bad for a guy playing for a relegated team. He appears to be a good player for the role where the DM is used to beat the first line of press and lays off passes to the full backs/wingers. I have mentioned it a few times already but I don't think Ugarte is worth the €60m PSG is demanding and if we can get Berge for half of that, I wouldn't mind taking him as a squad player.
Not directed at you but quite a lot of posters in this thread aren't really discussing whether Berge has any qualities that makes him a fit for our squad or not. A lot of the replies are just about him playing for Burnley and so he must be bad.
It's all good. I was only curious as your reply appeared to suggest it was outlandish for that other poster to claim that Berge might be better than Ugarte.
I really don't think what that poster claimed is that outlandish. The only thing Ugarte excels at is defensive actions. Berge is better in other areas. There doesn't appear to be a lot between them.
Visual representation of their stats. I included Ugarte's stats from when he was at Sporting too as I felt he didn't play a lot at PSG and playing time is roughly the same and some of his stats went down quite a bit after he moved to PSG. Whether the drop off is just be due to him being new to the league or French league being stronger than Portuguese league is up for debate.
Ugarte is what he is, a defensive duelling monster. Fbref stats back it up too, if anyone is interested in checking it out. Berge appears to be the more rounded player + better in the air than Ugarte. I feel like people haven't actually watched them both play and only go off the bit about Berge playing for a relegated team.
Have Berge and Ugarte got different profiles, if so maybe we should try to sign both (sales permitting). Other option is sign one of them and try to get Fofana for reasonable fee too.
Not in the squad tonight amid transfer speculation
Not with squad as apparently has a niggle.
Because for a lot of fans he’s not the bright shiny name they want. He’s not the FIFA or football manager name they are used to. They don’t understand that players who are relatively unknown can go to big clubs and be successful.
Sounds like there is movement, please not just him on his own because that's not enough
I don’t know if you’re right or wrong in thinking it, but I’m pretty sure there’s no outstanding candidate who can do all of the things you listed (who are achievable and affordable, before names like Rodri gets thrown around). Given how much our midfield resembled Swiss cheese last year, I think having a player who covers loads of ground and is unreal at pressing would be a huge plus.
Oh, no sorry if i were unclear.
I just really do not rate Sander Berge as a starting CM for us at all.
Sander Berge being rumoured to United, is to me the equivalent of United being rumoured to Southgate. * Shivers down spine *
Wow, that bad, huh? Pretty damning coming from a Norwegian as well - presumably you would know about him a lot more than us non-Norwegian.
No. Nothing to do with a bright shiny name. Ugarte isn't a bright shiny name. Neither is Zubimendi. Nobody had heard of either of them before the window started. Neither is Emerson or Fofana for that matter.
But they are much better players than Berge who play at a higher level and play for teams who are expected to play a lot better football than Burnley.
That's fair. I don't think he's good enough to be starting week in week out but as a squad player I definitely don't mind him at all. Especially considering our midfield still has the likes of McT, Casemiro, Eriksen.
If we can get the Casemiro we got against City then there's no comparison at all. Casemiro is miles ahead the better player. But if we get the one we saw against Liverpool then it's a massive concern. Eriksen has more quality in his left peg than Berge has overall but his physicality is shot and he cannot cope with the intensity of this league. For those reasons, I don't mind Berge here, if we can get him on the cheap.
I might sound harsh but he should be nowhere near a top 6 club in the Premier League.
In a weak Norway team he does not stand out at all. He rarely play above average in games against good teams. The most consistent players we have had over the last 10-15 matches are Håland, Ødegård, Bobb and Sørloth. The defence and the keeper is a joke.
We need a starting CM that improves us mate.
Not another squad player in my opinion.
Ugarte has a bigger chance chance to start since his playing style would unleash Mainoo and Bruno more without punishing our defence too much.
Better off signing a younger player from the continent who has higher potential as part of the squad.
Especially if he will cost north of 25m and around 100k in wages, I think that would be a poor use of funds, at 26 we already know hes not good enough to start for us, he'll be deadwood in a couple of seasons
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