Sander Berge | Signs for Fulham

[Jericholyte2]

 

[pocco]

Clubs see its United and add an extra 10-15m on to the price.

Makes sense though, no? If we want to sign somebody then somebody at our club thinks he's good enough, and that comes with a price. We're going to have to shop abroad, even look at African or South American markets if we want deals below that.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Ask yourself, who tf would pay that.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Without the benefit of hindsight knowing how the signings will turn out, £30m for Berge would probably be the most ridiculous deal a PL club makes in this entire window

 

[hobbers]

How on earth can they value him at 30m? They picked him up in the exact same situation for £12m. Trying to treble your investment is greedy as feck.

Quite easily given we seem to be valuing McTominay at £30m. Older than Berge and, according to some squad building gurus in this thread, worse than Berge.

 

[AneRu]

Money is indeed the problem but quite frankly it shouldn't be the case.

A- United need to accept their financial situation. I love Yoro and he's a generational talent. However does it really made sense spending so much for an 18 year old considering that we're in a financial mess and we have so many positions to fill?

B- We literally have an army of scouts. Should we start using them rather then relying on ETH's whatsapp group? Does it make sense to go for De Ligt and Mazraoui considering their injury record?

C- We need to be realistic. McT for 20m make sense and it represent pure profit, if AWB is determined to go to Inter then Id rather get Dumfries as a swap then let him go for a free in 6 months time or give him 7m for him to leave

Quite frankly I was expecting more 'Anselmino' type of signings ie young players on the cheap who represent low risk and can fill the positions we need. The likes of Shaw might be good but he can't be relied upon as he's always injure

I think we are a bit snobbish in our dealings and it's also reflected on here. You are right on Yoro, he is a generational player but where we are right now we don't need the next Rio, we needed a Vidic type of signing; not the type of player but the thought process and the methodology used in that signing - low fee but with the physical and mental attributes suited to top level football. For 30m our scouts should have been able to identify a 23-26 year old CB ready to come in and play 40 games for us.

We also need to accept that we have reaccummulated a lot of expensive, difficult to shift shit on high wages. What we are seeing now is going to be our reality for two or three summers. We are lucky that Ten Hag has cultivated first team players from Garnacho and Mainoo, he could do the same with Collyer and Amas. So our signings should be players who compliment those efforts.


We have brought in recruitment specialists who know what's what on the continent and we should have told them we have 60m for a DM and CB, go to work and if they succeed you earn so much as bonus. Getting hung up on Ten Hag's old band suggest we don't have any scouts and emboldens the seller because they know he will push us into their cul De sac where they will dominate the negotiation.

 

[DWelbz19]

The whole copium of this deal was that he was a smart, cut price bargain move. You might as well put a bit more money together and buy someone better if they want £30m.

 

[Lash]

Maybe he played very well for them?
Maybe its late in the window and they need to replace him?
Maybe they see us coming?

He hasn't played well enough to 3x his worth
Not that late in the window, closes on the 30th.
That is fine, but good luck convincing players to come to a yo-yo team when you price them out of big moves.

Quite easily given we seem to be valuing McTominay at £30m. Older than Berge and, according to some squad building gurus in this thread, worse than Berge.

Best of luck to them then, that's not a serious comparison.

 

[JBG]

The whole copium of this deal was that he was a smart, cut price bargain move. You might as well put a bit more money together and buy someone better if they want £30m.

Exactly this, surely we could get Ugarte for loan with certain fee and 40m mandatory transfer fee at the end of the loan.

 

[andersj]

The whole copium of this deal was that he was a smart, cut price bargain move. You might as well put a bit more money together and buy someone better if they want £30m.

£30 mill is a cut price bargain move?

Kilman cost £40 mill. Guehi are rumoured at around £60 mill. Solanke at £65 mill is only due to a release clause. Even a player like Smith-Rowe, who has barely played fotball, cost £30 mill.

 

[El Jefe]

I remember losing it back in 96-97 when we went on signing a nepo baby, some 27 year old CB from Besiktas, a 23 yr old from Molde and a free transfer fresh from the Dutch league. I thought that the only decent signing we made back then was the EURO 96 sensation Karel Poborsky. Turned out that 2 of those players were key in the treble season and Rai Van Del Gouw played a huge role during the dark days between Schmeichel's departure and VDS's arrival. Meanwhile Poborsky struggled at United.

Don't take me wrong the failure rate with these signings are high and even SAF had his share of messes. For every Ole there was a Kleberson, for every Johnsen there was a Djemba Djemba and for every Chicarito there was a Bebe. However SAF kept on making them. The reason being is that when done right (fee and salary) they represent a low risk transfer with huge benefits if they do well (ex Ole) and low damage if they don't. Djemba for example was bought for 3.5m. He was then sold for 1.5m. That's hardly a huge loss as opposed to let's say Maguire who will probably leave on a free after being bought for 80m

Even if what you are saying is true, Berge doesn’t fall in that category. He isn’t some obscure player we know nothing about. He’s been in English football for 5 seasons with 3 of those in the PL.

And if you want to use Fergie as your point of reference, he never really signed random players within the PL. His PL signings were usually very deliberate as they were consistent performers and usually played very well in the games against us. Berge would never make SAF’s scouting board.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Berge are one of the quickest players in the PL.

That would really surprise me. From the eye test he looks slower than Weghorst and Mertesacker. Albeit technically he does look better than I thought.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

I've followed him closely since he was bossing it for my local club at 17 and there is no way we should be paying 30m or whatever the quoted prices are. Even though he has been the standout player for both Sheffield and Burnley he hasn't really taken the next step since moving to England.

Maybe worth taking a punt if he's under 20m. Anything over that for players in their mid 20s should only ever be spent on nailed starters who will improve the XI.

My view as well. Also watched him since his VIF days.

 

[mu4c_20le]

£30 mill is a cut price bargain move?

Kilman cost £40 mill. Guehi are rumoured at around £60 mill. Solanke at £65 mill is only due to a release clause. Even a player like Smith-Rowe, who has barely played fotball, cost £30 mill.

Smith Rowe is twice the player. Not sure what you mean by Solanke only due to release clause, Spurs are trying to do a deal at 40, its not like his release clause is underpriced or some club would have come and triggered it already.

 

[pcaming]

I'm happy with this, we definitely not paying 30m so please continue to value him Burnley.

 

[andersj]

I've followed him closely since he was bossing it for my local club at 17 and there is no way we should be paying 30m or whatever the quoted prices are. Even though he has been the standout player for both Sheffield and Burnley he hasn't really taken the next step since moving to England.

Maybe worth taking a punt if he's under 20m. Anything over that for players in their mid 20s should only ever be spent on nailed starters who will improve the XI.

A nailed on starter for Man Utd in central midfield at £30 mill? Who?

 

[andersj]

Smith Rowe is twice the player. Not sure what you mean by Solanke only due to release clause, Spurs are trying to do a deal at 40, its not like his release clause is underpriced or some club would have come and triggered it already.

I read that Bmth would only accept a fee aligned with his relause clause at £65 mill. I see now that I was wrong. He will be sold for around £60 mill according to Ornstein. Still not £40 mill.


«He is under contract with Bournemouth until 2029 but, as The Athletic reported in June, the striker’s contract contains a £65million ($83m) release clause that can be triggered by certain clubs. The deal is not yet completed but is likely to get done for a fee in the region of £60m.»


Smith-Rowe have played a total of 500 min of league football the past two years. At 24 he has barely played more PL-minutes than Sander Berge did this season.

 

[Superunknown]

Ask yourself, who tf would pay that.

Us.

 

[devilish]

Even if what you are saying is true, Berge doesn’t fall in that category. He isn’t some obscure player we know nothing about. He’s been in English football for 5 seasons with 3 of those in the PL.

And if you want to use Fergie as your point of reference, he never really signed random players within the PL. His PL signings were usually very deliberate as they were consistent performers and usually played very well in the games against us. Berge would never make SAF’s scouting board.

Football is all about balance . Some people forget that we won our last season with Cleverley as a first teamer and Pogba sitting on the bench. Cleverley was low EPL table player level and yet he provided something that we lacked ie leg work. That was instrumental in a team who had many ageing stars who struggled big time on that department. So Cleverley played, Pogba sat and United won.

So how does Berge fit in? First of all we're very weak in corners and set pieces. We brought a guru in Georgson but we need to tackle things on the pitch as well. One of the biggest issues we have is that Martinez is wweak in aerial duels (and fantastic in the rest). That means that he needs some solid help on that regard. In the past we had to rely on either Maguire or McT to provide the inches. Maguire can't play in a high line while McT is not a DM. Berge is a DM and he's 6ft4. In terms of aerial duel won he's 1.92 which puts him within the Saliba category. Add Yoro, Zirkzee and possibly Mazraoui and Hermoso and we're adding inches into that team. Secondly he is fast something our midfield lack. Finally his stats aren't bad. He's a better in pass completion, progression passes and progressive carries to Casemiro

Is he a World beater? No he's not. Would I prefer him to Ugarte? No. Is he an upgrade to what we have? Yes especially in the right system,

Sander Berge was a fan favourite at Sheffield United and Burnley player of the year. He's no Roy Keane but he's hardly a random player either. Correct me if I am wrong but SAF did sign a crocked Michael Owen from Newcastle's dustbin didn't he?

 

[luke511]

Turning down £20 million for McTominay only to be stuck in the Sander Berge value category for midfielders is a monumental feck up.

 

[Sid234]

£30m seems too much for him

 

[Cassidy]

He hasn't played well enough to 3x his worth
Not that late in the window, closes on the 30th.
That is fine, but good luck convincing players to come to a yo-yo team when you price them out of big moves.

Best of luck to them then, that's not a serious comparison.

Well he is obviously worth more than 10m, on top of that his contract situation now is very different to when they signed him.
I don't see why the would sell for less than 25m, he was their player of the season after all.
Why should a club give away a player key player, who has a long term contract on the cheap? Just because your club wants to sign him? A bit entitled no?

 

[Tibs]

We should just get this done get him integrated into the squad ready for the season start.

 

[tidraKS]

His playing style looks like Michael Carrick's a bit.

 

[Lash]

Well he is obviously worth more than 10m, on top of that his contract situation now is very different to when they signed him.
I don't see why the would sell for less than 25m, he was their player of the season after all.
Why should a club give away a player key player, who has a long term contract on the cheap?

I think £20m is a more than reasonable valuation. He's on 40k, supposedly, so to buy out the contract is 6.2m. He'd be worth roughly 9m on the books. Not sure they should expect a 100% premium on his overall value.
It's not on the cheap, it's pretty much his value. They were happy to take him off Sheffield for very little and they've been relegated. They'd be mad to price him out if they want to try and convince anyone decent to come to them when they do come back up.

 

[Redstain]

30M is unreasonable, might as well sell Scott for 20 and use it to match PSG's valuation for Ugarte (50) if that's the case.

 

[NLunited]

Berge has been known as a talent since he played in Belgium. He is hardly an unknown, but hasn‘t made the step up to a top or subtop team yet.

His performances for Sheffield and Burnley have been good, so it is silly to say he was shit there.

A quick dive into stats shows he looks good compared to the likes of Zubimendi.

He isn‘t slow either, in fact he is a fast player. He is also tall which helps us on set pieces.

Progressive passing: he doesn‘t excel there, but he is very good at long passing and ball retention.

We have not been poor last season at playing the ball forward, but at keeping the ball. Giving the ball away a lot killed us in many games.

If we can get this guy for 20-25 million it would be worth the risk.

 

[Dyslexic Untied]

My view as well. Also watched him since his VIF days.

And mine, with the added qualification that I do think he has the potential to take further steps if in the right team and environment. I don't think he has chosen clubs very well since moving to England.

With respect to the pricing, I would be surprised if didn't manage to include some sort of release mechanism in case of relegation in his contract with Burnley. Was fairly evident last summer that they were in serious risk of going down.

 

[Sandikan]

Because he isn't cheap or anywhere close, and isn't underrated. Not exactly a mystery.

Spending ~£30m on a player who doesn't belong in a top 10 side is ridiculous for a club that doesnt seem to have a pot to piss in.

How on earth are you branding United this? When we've bought a teenager for a fee probably in the top 10 teenager fees of all time, and whatever Zirkzee cost.
Plus inevitable late window signings to come.

 

[VP89]

Ask yourself, who tf would pay that.

No one, even we won't I bet.

 

[Zed 101]

Football is all about balance . Some people forget that we won our last season with Cleverley as a first teamer and Pogba sitting on the bench. Cleverley was low EPL table player level and yet he provided something that we lacked ie leg work. That was instrumental in a team who had many ageing stars who struggled big time on that department. So Cleverley played, Pogba sat and United won.

So how does Berge fit in? First of all we're very weak in corners and set pieces. We brought a guru in Georgson but we need to tackle things on the pitch as well. One of the biggest issues we have is that Martinez is wweak in aerial duels (and fantastic in the rest). That means that he needs some solid help on that regard. In the past we had to rely on either Maguire or McT to provide the inches. Maguire can't play in a high line while McT is not a DM. Berge is a DM and he's 6ft4. In terms of aerial duel won he's 1.92 which puts him within the Saliba category. Add Yoro, Zirkzee and possibly Mazraoui and Hermoso and we're adding inches into that team. Secondly he is fast something our midfield lack. Finally his stats aren't bad. He's a better in pass completion, progression passes and progressive carries to Casemiro

Is he a World beater? No he's not. Would I prefer him to Ugarte? No. Is he an upgrade to what we have? Yes especially in the right system,

Sander Berge was a fan favourite at Sheffield United and Burnley player of the year. He's no Roy Keane but he's hardly a random player either. Correct me if I am wrong but SAF did sign a crocked Michael Owen from Newcastle's dustbin didn't he?

SAF signed a homeless Portuguese guy based on a nod and a wink.... I love SAF he was great but there as many dodgy signings during his tenure as there were great ones

 

[dinostar77]

That's fecking ridiculous. Transfermrkt has him at £17mil.

Just pay the £8mil difference between our valuation and PSG valuation of Ugarte and get it done.

 

[dinostar77]

SAF signed a homeless Portuguese guy based on a nod and a wink.... I love SAF he was great but there as many dodgy signings during his tenure as there were great ones

Fergie did say it's the only time he's bought a player without watching him at all and never again.

 

[Bogga]

Waaaaait a minute Burnely... what's this 0 doing behind the 3?

 

[JJ12]

That's fecking ridiculous. Transfermrkt has him at £17mil.

Just pay the £8mil difference between our valuation and PSG valuation of Ugarte and get it done.

Who cares what Transfermrkt value him at, nonsense tool to use.

Agree with you second point.

 

[DJ_21]

Makes sense though, no? If we want to sign somebody then somebody at our club thinks he's good enough, and that comes with a price. We're going to have to shop abroad, even look at African or South American markets if we want deals below that.

Does it? It doesn’t make sense that any other club other than us could probably get this done between 20-25m. The value of the player shouldn’t depend on which clubs are interested

 

[lex talionis]

He would be an upgrade on McTominay, but no Berge is not the answer to our midfield problems.

 

[DJ_21]

That's fecking ridiculous. Transfermrkt has him at £17mil.

Just pay the £8mil difference between our valuation and PSG valuation of Ugarte and get it done.

Agree it’s ridiculous but can’t really use websites when the club will decide what they value him at. If he’s one of their star players then they’ll value him higher. What I don’t like is clubs try to value a player depending on what clubs are interested. A mid table team probably sign him for 20m. Our name gets mentioned and that’s already an extra 10m

 

[DJ_21]

He would be an upgrade on McTominay, but no Berge is not the answer to our midfield problems.

He could be one of the answers though. We need his sort of profile aswell as a mobile number 8. Someone to dictate play and control a game.

 

[Cassidy]

I think £20m is a more than reasonable valuation. He's on 40k, supposedly, so to buy out the contract is 6.2m. He'd be worth roughly 9m on the books. Not sure they should expect a 100% premium on his overall value.
It's not on the cheap, it's pretty much his value. They were happy to take him off Sheffield for very little and they've been relegated. They'd be mad to price him out if they want to try and convince anyone decent to come to them when they do come back up.

Thats fine, Burnley do not have to agree with your assessment... they took him off Sheffield when he did not have a long term contract to lean on
The entitlement of some big club fans is absolutely ridiculous , again why should Burnley sell their player of the season on the cheap just because United want him?

His value to Burnley is a promotion back to the premier league quite obviously