Sancho isn’t being given “paid time off” though.
He’s at a boot camp in the back of beyond in southern Holland being put through a programme to get his fitness up, supervised by associates of his boss. It hardly sounds like a holiday camp.
Sancho won’t return to Man Utd until he's ready - Way too much inappropriate speculation.
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He’s at a boot camp in the back of beyond in southern Holland being put through a programme to get his fitness up, supervised by associates of his boss. It hardly sounds like a holiday camp.
Baggio was a weird one. On one hand he had all the talent in the world. That was evident from day 1. On the other hand he had a horrible self esteem mainly due to his disciplinarian father's 'communist' mentality at home which meant that he'd praise you equally irrespective if someone had taken the garbage out or scored a goal against Juve. It didn't helped a career threatening injury which came an inch away from ruining him and a generation of authoritarian managers who saw themselves as the football version of Napoleon with the players being merely pawns. Baggio was (and probably is still) the most loved Italian player in the world.
Football is huge but in terms of certain highly specialised role it really not. Take the manager's role as an example. LVG had managed Barcelona (twice), Ajax, Bayern (twice) and Manchester United. That's basically 1/2 of all top clubs in the world. Add Mourinho to the mix (Benfica, Porto, Real, Inter, Chelsea, Manchester United, Spurs, Roma) and you basically covered everyone. These people tend to leave coaches around who would built a career at those clubs in the same way Moyes left Jon Murtough behind. Thus if a DOF or a scout had close relationships with 5-6 key football people then he'd gain access of everything happening behind the scenes, what makes players tick, how they handle pressure etc. That's what SAF was so great in. He basically knew everyone in football and everyone in football respected him thus if he wanted to know if X player had the right attitude to succeed at Manchester United then that answer would be just one phone call away. Does Jon Murtough has that same clout? Does he even have anywhere near to the contacts a top DOF should have?
Another key issue with United is our inability to swiftly switch plans at a moment notice. Take the Stan Collymore deal as an example. SAF was interested in the man, something about that transfer sounded iffy and SAF immediately switch his sight to Andy Cole. Can you imagine if we that for example on the Sancho deal? FFS it took us a year to sign the guy.
After 10 days he reached the peak of the Vaalserberg, 322 meters above NAP. What a grueling journey.
You do know that’s not what’s happening with Sancho. Surely?
Read between the lines as in become a armchair psychiatrist and diagnose a player with a DSM label because they're out of form and low on confidence?
Bloody hell
He recieved sickening racial abuse after the European championship
He admitted he has problems sleeping
He has blacked out his Instagram account
He has been taken away from the rest of the squad for private training
ETH has said that he isn't physically or mentally ready to return
ETH said he doesn't have a return date for (uninjured) Sancho.
Everything above points to Mental Health issues
Don’t worry. When Ronaldo left us in 2009, we didn’t replace him because Ferguson would save the money for his successors (not Moyes, he’ll jus waste it, gi’e hem Fellaini and six months of a six year contrac’), which Van Gaal deliberately wasted on Memphis to make space for Rashford. Solskjær was brought in to run him into the ground (so as to save his best for The Coach That Was To Follow After Him), replacing him temporarily with an unstable youth player (Greenwood). We presumably already had misgivings about Greenwood, so second time Ronaldo was really a stop gap replacement for him. Knowing he would quickly and narcisstically implode and the vulnerable Sancho would crumble with him in the dressing room, it’s not hard to predict that with CR7 gone and Sancho back from his Hollandse Laars Kamp (Dutch Boot Camp) during WC, Jadon’s now going to be like getting a new player, so he really was the long term replacement for first time Ronaldo all along, with a top form goal hungry Rashford - predictably benched and rested by Southgate this month - being the replacement for Ruud van Nistlerooy. This was all part of the plan Erik Ten Hag laid with Steve McClaren and Van Gaal in 2003 for how he was going prepare United better for him getting the United job than Pep was going to prepare City. Long term planning. Now Glazers are selling United to The Vincent Van Googh Foundation according to this very plan, and Ten Hag will cut off an ear before kick off in The FA Cup final on Wembley in empathy with artists with mental health struggles not sufficiently recognized until after their death.
Ronaldo will symbolically hand him the scissors.
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Well said sir!
1. The euro's happened over 2 years go, which saka and rashford received the same level of abuse which they've managed to move on from
2. Sleeping problems does not equate to being mentally ill
3. Sancho is not the first footballer to take time out away from social media. It's a dangerous precedent to allude to someone being mentally ill just because they've stopped logging into Instagram. For example Maguire does not use social media because he does not want to receive abuse, does not mean he is mentally ill.
4. Many players from the past have been taken out of the squad for many different reasons, for example Rooney has been taken out of the squad to train in the U.S.A through fat camp when he was unfit and low on confidence
5. ETH explaining he's not physical and mentally can be interpreted as him simply being unfit and low on confidence and the manager is unwilling to carry him in the team while being out of form.
You and your common sense. Get out!
Your views on Mental Health is exactly why so many people choose to keep their illness to themselves. Hopefully one day you'll realise what utter nonsense you're talking.
You may have a point here, he's not played in any of our December fixtures.
Why you so full of hate? So weird to go off on one about something we don't really know all that much about.
So now it's hate now? He didn't start our last several games before the world cup, garnacho and elanga was selected ahead of him in our last 3 gamges. That's reality not hate. So it's not a stretch to assume he's taken out of the squad for his own good to get back in the right condition to play the game again. Maguire was given leave to go on holiday because he was out of form and needed a break. I don't see any support groups set up for Maguire
I like Sancho he seems like a nice guy, but if he isn't delivering the goods on the pitch, then it's time to step out, it doesn't matter how much of nice you guy you are. ETH has shown he has no time to indulge in players who are not going to put in a shift and do the basics such as tacking back. He's dropped maguire, ronaldo, even his own signing Malacia
Don't try and guilt trip me and others just because you want to jump the gun and assume he's in some sort of mental health crisis just to protect and shield him from justified criticism.
Oh mate, you misunderstand me, I don't know or would even care to speculate on the player's mental well-being. It's not my business and I'm pretty sure feeding rumours on the Internet isn't helpful for anyone. As I said, as far as I'm aware he's in a training camp during the off-season. My point is that I think we, the fans, don't need to act like cnuts to our own players regardless of their well-being. I think there's a word for this, I think it may be 'supporter'.
Absolutely spot on. We have praised ETH so far for his public statement on this, but maybe the dial could turn if that somehow does turns out to be the case.
Like someone else pointed out earlier too he also missed the 4 previous fixtures before the WC.
It's my first time witnessing this phenomena in my short time on this forum, has been quite the ride! Plenty of speculation which is the name of the game though I suppose. Just quite suprised by the pile on by people diagnosing him with MH illness from ETH's comments I posted earlier - which like @captaincantona said are easily taken at face value if you consider his blunt dutch way of speaking. Trying to read between the lines and put something as heavy as MH illness onto him then castigating others that don't agree that is what ETH really meant, has been a battle in here I don't think really needed to happen.
@redcucumber I respect where you are coming from but feel you should read Jippys above comment again. It summizes this situation quite well. Watching Sancho we know he hasn't been taking his man on 1 on 1. ETH in one of his post match pressers was describing what he wants from his wingers is "tempo dribbles" into the box 1 on 1. That was a Jadon specialty which he has lost the confidence to do in the prem because he is not getting past his man like he did in Germany so he turns and passes back. Thats been clear for all to see. Just taking it on face value the "mental" thing ETH was talking about is most likely referencing this. Restoring the confidence to commit to bursting past his man after a trick and take the foul if your burst pace doesn't take you far enough away. Much like Grealish does.
Rio Ferdinand discussed this exact topic indepth on his show in a 5 minute segment I have timestampped it here, he knows Sanchos' family and has a good relationship with him yet he is not pulling out personal life reasons for his form like some on here have done, he is analysing his game as a winger, not beating his man and going past people like we are -
I am sure if we saw more footage it would be like the short clip we have seen, drills entering the box and stuff based around this area he clearly needs help tweaking in.
I respect everyone talking about MH although I don't think in 2022 it is even a stigma anymore this has been so well explored there are podcasts, support groups, organisations, many public figures massive advocates for it. We are not living in an age where it is frowned upon or seen as bad to admit anymore. Ridiculous to hold up one or two people saying "soft" and parade that for 12 pages. When Lingard came out, normal fans accepted it even though we all knew football wise he was not united quality.
I feel like as we have all had some degree of MH issue in our lives some are tending to project a bit onto Sancho that he is suffering in silence, whilst the simpler fact is he is a footballer slightly out of form which is run of the mill common. That can get you down for sure and compound deeper like it did for Rashy when he felt unfocused last season when he was stretching himself too thin.
Many radical opinions in this thread, I wonder if there's any middle ground between "mental illness/mentality issues can affect anyone and we should just accept it" and "we should've done better in recruitment and this should've been spotted".
On one hand, I'm all for giving people the time and space they need to settle the stuff in their heads without any prejudice, but on the other, there are just too many cases of talented youth players not being able to flourish and reach their heights at United - Ravel, Mason, Paul, Jadon, you name them. Add to that we keep players like Phil Jones on our books and you start to get a picture in which there are at least a few guys that are not putting 110% effort to keep the shirt. It also has to be strongly underlined that each of these non-playing, support-needing footballers is taking a wage and place of another player that wasn't fortunate enough to land a contract with United, so you always sacrifice something by keeping the non-players on your books.
We envy Real for its glory and I occasionally read here how much some wish we were as ruthless and success-oriented as them, but do we really strive for that? SAF was all about winning and his style of management would be widely lauded as toxic in 2022 - too much shouting, too aggressive, too little compassion. We haven't been ruthless for the last decade and on many occasions, you could get an idea United is more about feel-good, tradition, community-building, and social impact than football success at all costs. I think these are wider changes that affect not only Manchester but the whole of Britain - as per your national team and Southgate being judged not only on the results but also on how socially inclusive his team is / if the whole country feels represented by it / if the manager himself doesn't ooze toxic masculinity etc.
Not saying it's a good or bad thing, but you get the impression priorities and the atmosphere is changing.
On one hand, I'm all for giving people the time and space they need to settle the stuff in their heads without any prejudice, but on the other, there are just too many cases of talented youth players not being able to flourish and reach their heights at United - Ravel, Mason, Paul, Jadon, you name them. Add to that we keep players like Phil Jones on our books and you start to get a picture in which there are at least a few guys that are not putting 110% effort to keep the shirt. It also has to be strongly underlined that each of these non-playing, support-needing footballers is taking a wage and place of another player that wasn't fortunate enough to land a contract with United, so you always sacrifice something by keeping the non-players on your books.
We envy Real for its glory and I occasionally read here how much some wish we were as ruthless and success-oriented as them, but do we really strive for that? SAF was all about winning and his style of management would be widely lauded as toxic in 2022 - too much shouting, too aggressive, too little compassion. We haven't been ruthless for the last decade and on many occasions, you could get an idea United is more about feel-good, tradition, community-building, and social impact than football success at all costs. I think these are wider changes that affect not only Manchester but the whole of Britain - as per your national team and Southgate being judged not only on the results but also on how socially inclusive his team is / if the whole country feels represented by it / if the manager himself doesn't ooze toxic masculinity etc.
Not saying it's a good or bad thing, but you get the impression priorities and the atmosphere is changing.
I don't like discussing a players well being, that stuff is personal, which is why I'm not quick to jump on the MH issue bandwagon. Until there is further evidence to support that, I will judge the player's in terms of their performance and what they bring to the team, and so far save from the odd few games, sancho has offered nothing since he's signed
I don't know you tell me. Maybe it's the fact they don't want to accept the idea that we wasted 78 million on a dud
Certainly can be.
For instance, I had depression for several months, didn't want to get out of bed, didn't eat properly and had no energy to do things.
It makes zero sense unless they actually know Sancho personally.
About as much sense as those attacking him repeatedly instead of listening to Ten Hag and waiting to see the outcome.
The guy was chubby when playing for Dortmund. I remember posting that we won't see the best of him during his first season because he needs to adjust to the physical requirements of playing in the Premier League.
He didn't adjust or concentrate enough on losing the bodyfat or increase his explosiveness. We all saw the results so far which are underwhelming performances.
Will he now right the wrongs and act like a professional athlete? Nobody knows but I'm glad Ten Hag is our managers because he's clearly called out Shaw and Sancho for their awful body composition.
I'd like to fast forward 6 months and see if Sancho has stuck to a nutrition plan and lost the fat needed to be at his optimal performance levels.
He didn't adjust or concentrate enough on losing the bodyfat or increase his explosiveness. We all saw the results so far which are underwhelming performances.
Will he now right the wrongs and act like a professional athlete? Nobody knows but I'm glad Ten Hag is our managers because he's clearly called out Shaw and Sancho for their awful body composition.
I'd like to fast forward 6 months and see if Sancho has stuck to a nutrition plan and lost the fat needed to be at his optimal performance levels.
That looks fecking miserable. If the main priority is mental health I don’t see how taking him away from friends and family to train in the Netherlands on his own will help turn things round.
Yeah Pogue agreed mate this is why I don't agree with the lads here arguing he must have a mental illness. I think ETH words have been blown out of proportion and they've put 2 and 2 together from other goings on.
I get that but then if a player is physically fit you can basically put any loss of form down to a 'mental health' issue. I'm sure Maguire won't have been mentally 100% when his form dropped for example.
It does seem unusual though to take the player out of the squad. One gets the impression that the situation might not be quite what the public statements would have us think. Though sending him to the Netherlands doesn't suggest the issue is more than a footballing one.
Fundamentally ETH strikes me (like Jose) as the kind of guy who does not lie as a matter of principle. Sancho has a pychological problem that has led to a drop in form and fitness and that become a self re-inforcing doom loop. Taking ETH at his word, removing JS from the club environment during the World Cup seems like a good place to start with fixing that, if the deterioriation has not gone too far. Being around the non-Internationals would probably just make things worse. Whether it's enough of an intervention is kind of hard to say, but if he's kicking a ball he probably hasn't had the kind of mental collapse some people might be imagining.
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Maybe they are FIFA-wankers or maybe they are more intelligent football fans then you. I think it's definitely up for debate as to whether or not Sancho has lived up to expectations, whether or not he's performing, and whether or not he has a future. You have an opinion, that he is doing those things and has a future, not sure what you base it on, but your welcome to your opinion, but others, and many of us, don't think he's been successful, we don't believe he has played well and we are worried as to whether or not it's fixable. Based on his time at United so far, I would say the second group has a stronger case, but definitely still open for debate. So you should probably drop your holier than thou, condescending attitude because your butthurt somoene insulted the player you have a poster on your wall of, because this is an open topic that will be debated until he steps up or he is moved on.
Butthurt, really? My butt sure felt something reading that.
I agree he's not been great, I just don't think it requires any venom. Which is present here and much worse in the Rashford thread. Nobody is against a reasonable discussion, but the hysterics, bile and ridiculous hate come from a lack of patience and an inability to take a longer view.
Very strange. Are we perhaps reassessing him as a footballer at this level? Sounds harsh but he's looked well out of his depth since coming to United.
The only bile, and hysterics I've seen in this thread is from those peddling this idea that Sancho is on the verge of being put into a mental asylum and anyone who doesn't believe he's unwell and dare point towards his poor form and showing since signing for us, are stupid, fools, fifawankers and haters.
this thread has gone right off the deep end
The football forums can't even mange decent football discussions. Possible mental health was always going to be an overreach for a lot of you.
He certainly hasn’t looked out of his depth. We have been shite during most of his time here. He has merely looked like he belonged in a disjointed and lazy team which is what we were. ETH has raised the bar for all those players that have had question marks over their attitude and performances . Some are stepping up to the plate (Shaw, Rashford, Dalot, Garnacho)…some are having their limitations exposed (Maguire, AWB, Elanga, Fred, DVB, Ronaldo). Sancho is in that second group and whether or not he has a future here depends on his reaction.
This is what I love about ETH. He is direct and honest. If Maguire is not happy being part of a back line and competing weeks in week out for his place - he can leave. Same with Sancho, we know he has talent but he needs to be much fitter and show much more to get a place in the team.
The truly excellent thing is, the players ETH has brought in have all acclimatised quickly, adapted to the pressure and needed no excuses. This suggests that the confidence and character issues we have had in the past with new signings may be something that ETH is aware of.
Regardless of any potential MH issues Sancho may or may not be facing, at least ETH is taking the sensible approach which is best for the team. Support might be available behind the scenes but the performance and Commitment to the project is non negotiable. Sub par elements to a players contribution to the squad will be addressed or the player will not play. It’s quite refreshing. How long did we spend watching a team going through the motions (for whatever reasons). It seems ETH is addressing that.
12 pages of speculation, assuming he has mental health issues, some saying its the beginning of the end for his career here.
In reality all we know is Ten Hag has told him to go train in isolation to focus on his fitness.
In reality all we know is Ten Hag has told him to go train in isolation to focus on his fitness.
My presence in this thread is down to the fact that I genuinely love the way Sancho plays. I think players with his touch and close control and weight are essential to have in your armoury when trying to break down low blocks. He and Amad are players I really want to see succeed here and offer attacking variety compared to Antony or Rashford. Clever comfortable in tight spaces. If he doesn’t succeed we need to go searching for someone who can do what he does.
Regardless of where everyone falls with the MH question…it’s clear that everyone wants this kid to succeed.
Regardless of where everyone falls with the MH question…it’s clear that everyone wants this kid to succeed.
He also made a comment about mood, think that's what has been jumped on.
Personally I like that ETH is doing this, gives Sancho a chance to get away and refocus, he doesn't go into a huge amount of detail. At the same time his other comments also make it known to others that he won't stand for drops in performance levels.
There's a quality player in there just waiting to come out. I remember Andy Cole having a really poor spell after he joined, think he missed a few at West Ham on the final day, during that period fans and pundits were on his back. Ferguson even offered him as a make weight in a deal for Shearer to Blackburn. He stayed, got his legs broke by that cnut Ruddock and came back twice the player.
Sometimes players face these big moments in their careers. It looks like ETH is going to give him every chance to get back. If he doesn't take it then I should think he'll have no problem showing him the door.
What a trainwreck of a thread. Many of the posters seem like my uncle who sees a headache and declares brain tumour
There's a difference between being out of form, and genuinely being lost in your head where you can think of nothing else.
I think the people who are lucky to have never suffered severe anxiety/depression will never understand how difficult it can be.
At top level sport where that 5% extra can make a huge difference, it definitely can be a big reason as to why.
We don't / won't know if Sancho is actually depressed or having these type of issues. The main thing is they are dealing with it and he seems cooperative.
For the MH crowd here. If playing for United started his mental health issue, wouldn't be good for everyone (including himself) if, you know, he's not playing for United? There are hundreds of other clubs out there that he may find peace and happiness.
Not many would give him 350k/wk though.
Not many would give him 350k/wk though.
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