Samuel Umtiti

Swift Football said:
Except for he is not the best pure defender, far from it. But he might be one of the best technical CB ( not the best though).
He surely would be one of the most expensive though, if we spend 60M on him.
Click to expand...

1. I said 'one' of.
2. Arguably he is. Doesn't make mistakes, consistent, composed, reads the game well, quick, strong. You would be hard pressed to find many better.
 
I'm always weary of buying defenders from teams that dont need to defend heavily. Mourinho's game plan is reliant on the CB's being rocks and seeing off waves of attacks, something that I've never seen Umtiti face because Barca always have the ball (I'm not saying he wouldnt up to it, I'm just cautious about buying another player who doesn't play in a Mourinho-type team). I suppose a good example would be Godin at Atletico - Simeone sets up similar to Jose, so you know Godin's capable of playing in that manner). Another example is Otamendi - he can't defend when the team actually needs to defend (and you can see this for Argentina), but looks fine for City because he's rarely called upon to face waves of attacks (watch the 4-3 Liverpool game for what happens when he does face this).
 
redNATION said:
I'm always weary of buying defenders from teams that dont need to defend heavily. Mourinho's game plan is reliant on the CB's being rocks and seeing off waves of attacks, something that I've never seen Umtiti face because Barca always have the ball (I'm not saying he wouldnt up to it, I'm just cautious about buying another player who doesn't play in a Mourinho-type team). I suppose a good example would be Godin at Atletico - Simeone sets up similar to Jose, so you know Godin's capable of playing in that manner). Another example is Otamendi - he can't defend when the team actually needs to defend (and you can see this for Argentina), but looks fine for City because he's rarely called upon to face waves of attacks (watch the 4-3 Liverpool game for what happens when he does face this).
Click to expand...
Was not impressed against chelsea!
 
redNATION said:
I'm always weary of buying defenders from teams that dont need to defend heavily. Mourinho's game plan is reliant on the CB's being rocks and seeing off waves of attacks, something that I've never seen Umtiti face because Barca always have the ball (I'm not saying he wouldnt up to it, I'm just cautious about buying another player who doesn't play in a Mourinho-type team). I suppose a good example would be Godin at Atletico - Simeone sets up similar to Jose, so you know Godin's capable of playing in that manner). Another example is Otamendi - he can't defend when the team actually needs to defend (and you can see this for Argentina), but looks fine for City because he's rarely called upon to face waves of attacks (watch the 4-3 Liverpool game for what happens when he does face this).
Click to expand...

Umtiti does the job for France, the Euro 2016 was his coming out party and this was a team much closer to the way Mourinho plays than the way City or Barcelona do. He can handle the job and would automatically be one of the best defenders in the Premier League once he's settled. I just don't see why he would leave Barcelona to go to Manchester United. I think he'll get his contract, Barcelona would be stupid to let him go.
 
redNATION said:
I'm always weary of buying defenders from teams that dont need to defend heavily. Mourinho's game plan is reliant on the CB's being rocks and seeing off waves of attacks, something that I've never seen Umtiti face because Barca always have the ball (I'm not saying he wouldnt up to it, I'm just cautious about buying another player who doesn't play in a Mourinho-type team). I suppose a good example would be Godin at Atletico - Simeone sets up similar to Jose, so you know Godin's capable of playing in that manner). Another example is Otamendi - he can't defend when the team actually needs to defend (and you can see this for Argentina), but looks fine for City because he's rarely called upon to face waves of attacks (watch the 4-3 Liverpool game for what happens when he does face this).
Click to expand...
Barcelona is a team with few defenders. Being a Barcelona or Real Madrid defender means you'll be tested the most in the kind of football that you'll be playing, namely possession based football. Anyone can look good in a very defensive setup and good defenders shine in them but you notice them more when they don't have cement blocks all around them. Umtiti has been very good when I've seen Barcelona play. Easily the best defensive performance in years at that club.
 
Been impressed with him every time I see him. Question for those who watch him regularly, does he have a brain, or doe he try and terminate everything that comes his way like Bailly?
 
ghagua said:
Been impressed with him every time I see him. Question for those who watch him regularly, does he have a brain, or doe he try and terminate everything that comes his way like Bailly?
Click to expand...

He relies on his physical attributes like Bailly. He's probably stronger and more wise at using his body than Bailly who can get caught out against stronger PL strikers. I wouldn't say he's all physicality though, you have to be switched on tactically and technically to play for Barcelona, which he has shown.

He's definitely the best CB of the next generation now that Boateng, Ramos, Godin, Hummels are getting older/struggling with form or injuries. Him, Gimenez and Koulibaly should be our main targets, all probably unattainable unfortunately.
 
charlenefan said:
Really? In the second leg he was all that was between Chelsea getting a goal and not
Click to expand...
While I do agree with you, this is exactly the point I'm making.

Let's be honest, Chelsea should have won the home leg 4-0 where he had no effect in preventing them it was just their own bad finishing. In the away leg, Chelsea could have scored 3 and that's with him playing well. 7 goals?

Not at this level, it's just not tight enough.

I'd take Toby instead
 
So, has he signed his bumper new contract at Barca yet then?

If he's anywhere other than Barca this time next year I'll post a video of myself dancing handstand in a mankini.
 
Oscar.Z.Acosta said:
Barcelona will pay him; he’s just using us as leverage.
Click to expand...

He might be using us as leverage, but I dont see Barca paying him that much. It sets a wrong trend if they renew a player's contract meeting his wage demands, especially he is just one year into his contract. Barca are no City/Psg and their wages bill is already very high. If we offer 60M, they should take it and bring another youngster like De Ligt to replace him.
 
Swift Football said:
He might be using us as leverage, but I dont see Barca paying him that much. It sets a wrong trend if they renew a player's contract meeting his wage demands, especially he is just one year into his contract. Barca are no City/Psg and their wages bill is already very high. If we offer 60M, they should take it and bring another youngster like De Ligt to replace him.
Click to expand...

Interesting. But should we overpay wages to the kind of player that chooses to play for us over Barca due to an increase in an already extreme wage?
 
Oscar.Z.Acosta said:
Interesting. But should we overpay wages to the kind of player that chooses to play for us over Barca due to an increase in an already extreme wage?
Click to expand...
I am not a fan of Umtiti, and I dont want us to sign him esp. in 60M+9M wages package.
To answer your question if we should sign a mercenary , I think at the end of the day, everybody wants to earn more money when they can, its just natural. United is no Barca, and he wont be winning trophies here that he will be winning at Barca, but considering his age and honors, its safe to say he will still have hunger/motivation to do well. So, i dont think overpaying him is particularly a problem. But from United's perspective, we could do better with that 60M fees than Umtiti.
 
He's been the best CB in the world this season but lately pretty shaky, not sure if thats down to poor form or off field issues. I don't think Barca will pay him the amount he wants especially considering our wage issues and the imminent arrival of Griezmann, no doubt on huge wages aswell. will probably meet somewhere in the middle but I'm dissapointed he's flirting with other clubs during such a crucial stage in our season
 
Swift Football said:
I am not a fan of Umtiti, and I dont want us to sign him esp. in 60M+9M wages package.
But from United's perspective, we could do better with that 60M fees than Umtiti.
Click to expand...
What the?
Does this make sense for anyone else?
 
Ødegaard said:
What the?
Does this make sense for anyone else?
Click to expand...
What part you dint understand?
Umtiti being mercenary is not a problem in signing him as in it's okay to sign him even if money is the motivation for him.
But United could invest 60M in better ways.
 
Swift Football said:
Skriniar, De Ligt, Lucas Hernandez, Godin, Varane, Alderweireld
Click to expand...
Some good suggestions, but none of them are at the level of Umtiti.
Skriniar - would cost nearly the same but is inferior to Umtiti
De Ligt - very good but at 18,hes not ready to start for United
Lucas Hernandez - don't know much about him
Godin - doesn't want to leave Atletico, even if he is available he is 32
Varane - would cost the same as Umtiti, is injury prone and most probably Real won't sell
Alderweireld - very good option, but would cost 45-50 mill and is 5 years older than Umtiti

Umtiti is probably the best CB in the world. I'm not saying he will come here, but if there is any chance, we should try to get him
He's just 5 months older than Bailly and they could be our CB pairing for the next decade.
When Pep just paid nearly 60 mill for a 24 year old who's had barely featured for his national team, who played for a mid table team, who had a very serious injury not so long back I don't see why Umtiti who is a regular for France with a very good injury record, a starter at one of the biggest clubs in the world playing at the highest level day in day out isn't worth less than that.
 
Swift Football said:
What part you dint understand?
Umtiti being mercenary is not a problem in signing him as in it's okay to sign him even if money is the motivation for him.
But United could invest 60M in better ways.
Click to expand...
I understand what you write, but I don't understand how anyone can think that way.
First of, Umtiti commented on negative football from Barcelona some time back so him going to us at all is very unlikely.

Swift Football said:
Skriniar, De Ligt, Lucas Hernandez, Godin, Varane, Alderweireld
Click to expand...
Secondly:
Diego Godin is 32 & very loyal to Atletico Madrid, he'd be a short-term stop-gap at best.
Wanting to spend any money on him at all is silly.

Lucas Hernandez has played 63 games in 4 years, 19 this season. A unproven talent compared to Umtiti.
De Ligt is also very much unproven, the highest level he's played at is Ajax.

Skrinier while more proven than the two above is still someone who has proven less than Umtiti. 2 seasons in Serie A, 1 for 10th placed Sampdoria who let in 55 goals (8th on goals against in Serie A that year) and he just got to Inter. Give it a year or two and maybe he can be in discussion.


If(!) we can get Varane for 60 million or less (strongly doubt that with his contract running til 2022 w/200m release clause vs 2021 w/60m release clause for Umtiti), then we still have to worry about his injury-history (less of a issue this year). He'd still be a great buy and a good alternative to Umtiti if either was available, though considering we reportedly tried recently it seems like he might not be that interested (or Real in selling).


Alderweireld is another who is a good option, but we won't know what Tottenham want for him, going by their history I doubt he'll be much cheaper than Umtiti's 60m euro release clause.
Alderweireld's £25m release clause supposedly doesn't come into effect until summer 2019 (if Tottenham uses their right to extend his contract by one year).
By then we'll have a great but 30 year old Alderweireld vs a 25 year old Umtiti (or Varane who is born in the same year as Umtiti).

Honestly the biggest thing going against us signing Umtiti has nothing to do with his qualities or "value in the market", it's more to do with him likely not wanting to move from Barcelona but rather that he is looking for a improved contract.
If he does move there is also the comments about wanting to play attacking football which could turn him away from us. From the ones you've mentioned only Varane & Alderweireld are options that come with the qualities proven to be on the list compared to Umtiti.
 
He has been fantastic this season. Bit of a dip in form of late but he has been the most impressive defender in a Barcelona defence that has had a great season.

Would be mad not to go for him if we have a chance. But I doubt he'll leave Barcelona.
 
Why would a player want to leave Barca for United? Just crazy money?
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Umtitti has out performed pretty much all of them this year.

Is the Varane hype still based on his peformances as a 20 year old?
Click to expand...

No, Umtiti has not outperformed any of those, not even a single one. For sure, he has been overhyped.
Varane is miles better than Umtiti.
 
Ødegaard said:
I understand what you write, but I don't understand how anyone can think that way.
First of, Umtiti commented on negative football from Barcelona some time back so him going to us at all is very unlikely.


Secondly:
Diego Godin is 32 & very loyal to Atletico Madrid, he'd be a short-term stop-gap at best.
Wanting to spend any money on him at all is silly.

Lucas Hernandez has played 63 games in 4 years, 19 this season. A unproven talent compared to Umtiti.
De Ligt is also very much unproven, the highest level he's played at is Ajax.

Skrinier while more proven than the two above is still someone who has proven less than Umtiti. 2 seasons in Serie A, 1 for 10th placed Sampdoria who let in 55 goals (8th on goals against in Serie A that year) and he just got to Inter. Give it a year or two and maybe he can be in discussion.


If(!) we can get Varane for 60 million or less (strongly doubt that with his contract running til 2022 w/200m release clause vs 2021 w/60m release clause for Umtiti), then we still have to worry about his injury-history (less of a issue this year). He'd still be a great buy and a good alternative to Umtiti if either was available, though considering we reportedly tried recently it seems like he might not be that interested (or Real in selling).


Alderweireld is another who is a good option, but we won't know what Tottenham want for him, going by their history I doubt he'll be much cheaper than Umtiti's 60m euro release clause.
Alderweireld's £25m release clause supposedly doesn't come into effect until summer 2019 (if Tottenham uses their right to extend his contract by one year).
By then we'll have a great but 30 year old Alderweireld vs a 25 year old Umtiti (or Varane who is born in the same year as Umtiti).

Honestly the biggest thing going against us signing Umtiti has nothing to do with his qualities or "value in the market", it's more to do with him likely not wanting to move from Barcelona but rather that he is looking for a improved contract.
If he does move there is also the comments about wanting to play attacking football which could turn him away from us. From the ones you've mentioned only Varane & Alderweireld are options that come with the qualities proven to be on the list compared to Umtiti.
Click to expand...

And why do you think we must look for proven center back. Barca themselves went for relatively unproven Umtiti in 2016 and Mina this season. If Spurs can bring Vertonghen and Toby and make them one of the best CB pairing, why cant we do the same? Rudiger for Chelsea, for example has done decent job so far. So, why is it that we must fork out vast amounts of money to get a player.
60M transfer fee + 9M net wages for some 5 years = approx 135M outlay. And lets not forget its effects on other contract renewals of existing players.
Plus we are going to partner him with Bailly, both somewhat similar. And that partnership will be one of the weakest (in terms of pure physical strength) & shortest CB pair in PL and they will struggle in air.
 
Swift Football said:
And why do you think we must look for proven center back. Barca themselves went for relatively unproven Umtiti in 2016 and Mina this season. If Spurs can bring Vertonghen and Toby and make them one of the best CB pairing, why cant we do the same? Rudiger for Chelsea, for example has done decent job so far. So, why is it that we must fork out vast amounts of money to get a player.
60M transfer fee + 9M net wages for some 5 years = approx 135M outlay. And lets not forget its effects on other contract renewals of existing players.
Plus we are going to partner him with Bailly, both somewhat similar. And that partnership will be one of the shortest CB pair in PL and they will struggle in air.
Click to expand...
Because we have Rojo, Jones, Bailly, Blind, Lindelöf, Smalling, Tuanzebe & TFM.
We don't need numbers or potential.
If we need a cb, we need a undisputed first choice.
 
Ødegaard said:
Because we have Rojo, Jones, Bailly, Blind, Lindelöf, Smalling, Tuanzebe & TFM.
We don't need numbers or potential.
If we need a cb, we need a undisputed first choice.
Click to expand...


Mascherano, and even Vermaelen looked equally impressive in Barca setup. Its hard to judge defenders in their setup. I think Skriniar/De Ligt would be as impressive as Umtiti in Barca setup, and I am talking about their current level, not what they would go on to become.
He does not look like he is excellent in air and he can be turned.
I am not convinced he is a natural defender that should cost 135M outlay.
 
Forget him. The day he started to talk about that other clubs are interested in him is the day when it’s all negotiation tactics between him and Barca. Secondly. Our priority isn’t a new CB.
 
Why are we still looking for defenders? We have too many very good defenders. We can we focus on something else like actual full backs, a playmaker and a proper right winger.
 
redNATION said:
I'm always weary of buying defenders from teams that dont need to defend heavily. Mourinho's game plan is reliant on the CB's being rocks and seeing off waves of attacks, something that I've never seen Umtiti face because Barca always have the ball (I'm not saying he wouldnt up to it, I'm just cautious about buying another player who doesn't play in a Mourinho-type team). I suppose a good example would be Godin at Atletico - Simeone sets up similar to Jose, so you know Godin's capable of playing in that manner). Another example is Otamendi - he can't defend when the team actually needs to defend (and you can see this for Argentina), but looks fine for City because he's rarely called upon to face waves of attacks (watch the 4-3 Liverpool game for what happens when he does face this).
Click to expand...
Great insight, I share this sentiment.
 
redNATION said:
I'm always weary of buying defenders from teams that dont need to defend heavily. Mourinho's game plan is reliant on the CB's being rocks and seeing off waves of attacks, something that I've never seen Umtiti face because Barca always have the ball (I'm not saying he wouldnt up to it, I'm just cautious about buying another player who doesn't play in a Mourinho-type team). I suppose a good example would be Godin at Atletico - Simeone sets up similar to Jose, so you know Godin's capable of playing in that manner). Another example is Otamendi - he can't defend when the team actually needs to defend (and you can see this for Argentina), but looks fine for City because he's rarely called upon to face waves of attacks (watch the 4-3 Liverpool game for what happens when he does face this).
Click to expand...
Yeah good post.

The same applies to goalkeepers too, as City and Bravo will testify
 
Swift Football said:
No, Umtiti has not outperformed any of those, not even a single one. For sure, he has been overhyped.
Varane is miles better than Umtiti.
Click to expand...
Umtiti has not outperformed any one of them? Not a single one?

Anyway, point being, the only reason there’s even a mention of €60m is due to his release clause. I’d be surprised if Barca wanted to sell for anything less than VVD money, in the current market. Hell, they wouldn’t want to sell him at all because they’d struggle to replace his quality.
 
two points in this if you believe the press. Hes been instrumental in persuading Griezmann in signing for Barca and hes also stated other teams are also interested in him besides Utd. Now if one or the other is correct, it doesnt sound like hes coming here.
 
I haven't seen him play, how does he shape up against Alderweireld and Varane? Sounds a bit like Ramos from a few years ago and might be playing us for a new contract at Barca.
 
Lebo said:
Why are we still looking for defenders? We have too many very good defenders. We can we focus on something else like actual full backs, a playmaker and a proper right winger.
Click to expand...

In my opinion we rely heavily on a superman in goal and we can not expect him to be on this level each year.

Statistic shows that there have been created too many chances against us this season. We are currently at an expected goals against us ratio of 35,11. City is at 20,20. Tottenham at 25,20. Liverpool at 31,52.

You could argue that a better midfield and full backs would improve these figures, and I agree. At the same time, I do think that Valencia has been solid all season. Would a left back and a midfielder raise our level? Perhaps.

Mainly I would argue that we need to improve our system. Liverpool do not have centrebacks of higher quality than Man Utd, but they do have a better system. If we do not improve our system, maybe we need to improve or players?
 
andersj said:
In my opinion we rely heavily on a superman in goal and we can not expect him to be on this level each year.

Statistic shows that there have been created too many chances against us this season. We are currently at an expected goals against us ratio of 35,11. City is at 20,20. Tottenham at 25,20. Liverpool at 31,52.

You could argue that a better midfield and full backs would improve these figures, and I agree. At the same time, I do think that Valencia has been solid all season. Would a left back and a midfielder raise our level? Perhaps.

Mainly I would argue that we need to improve our system. Liverpool do not have centrebacks of higher quality than Man Utd, but they do have a better system. If we do not improve our system, maybe we need to improve or players?
Click to expand...

Is painfully obvious to anyone watching us.
 
Ish said:
Umtiti has not outperformed any one of them? Not a single one?

Anyway, point being, the only reason there’s even a mention of €60m is due to his release clause. I’d be surprised if Barca wanted to sell for anything less than VVD money, in the current market. Hell, they wouldn’t want to sell him at all because they’d struggle to replace his quality.
Click to expand...

Appartently the kid at Ajax in the 'tough' Eredivisie has out performed Umtiti. Must have out performed him in the CL... No wait... Europa... Nope. Ok. Fifa?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.