The funny thing about Umtiti, is that people had doubts about him when he was the member of a one man defense at Lyon where he had to do all the defending, now people doubt about him because he looks good when he has less defending to do and more ball playing which he does excellently.
Samuel Umtiti
- Thread starter Sassy Colin
- Start date
Seems like when we have a position in mind we always go for 2 targets. It's going to be Umtiti or Alderweireld and I wouldn't be upset with either.
Lukaku/Morata
Matic/Dier
Lindelof/Keane
Lukaku/Morata
Matic/Dier
Lindelof/Keane
He's the best in the world, to not expect him to be at that level every year would be akin to saying Messi and Ronaldo can't score as many goals as they do every year and yet they do
De Gea does however gloss over issues like how many chances we concede but with reports of a defensive overhaul though chances conceded obviously isn't a point lost on Jose
Mourinhos system has always relied/trusted his players on the ball. That is fine if you have Terry/Carvalho, Lucio/Samuel or Ramos/Pepe. Rio/Vidic too.
But some of our defenders probably needs a bit of direction (ref a system) to help them out.
Mourinho complained that his players went hiding and did not play through the lines from the back against Brighton. You dont get that with Smalling, and I’m pretty sure Mourinho knows that.
Jones, Bailly, Rojo and Lindelof range from «fine» to «good» on the ball. We do not have players in the mould of Rio, Terry/Carvalho, Ramos or Lucio, but I believe Bailly or Jones would look a lot better next to a player of their quality and presence. Playing next to Smalling do not bring out the best of them.
Jones is a level above Smalling on the ball in my opinion. Jones has 49 passes per game compared to Smalling 39 passes in the PL (25 % difference). Furthermore he has a completion rate of 91,1 % compared to Smallings 87,4 %. This is despite the fact that Jones plays a bigger ratio of his passes forward and on average longer (could indicate higher risk).
De Gea will always be very good, but we can not expect him to be at the level he has the past year each year. He has never been close to outperforming expected goals in the manner he has this year.
I think the Messi/Ronaldo illustration is quite good, but I would change it a bit. Messi and Ronaldo are so good that even if they have a poor season compared to their standard they are still the the two best players in the world. Take Messi as an example, he has outperformed the expected goals ratio in three out of the four years I can find statistics for. And he has done so quite significantly. However, in 2015/2016 he did not. And in some years he outperform it more heavily than others.
Yeah you read some weird opinions on the Caf at times, and that was one of them.
No you're clearly talking bollocks. Tell me which team has defender better this season - Madrid or Barca? And which league does De Ligt play in? You're obviously just trotting out names with having seen little of each.
Btw if anyone has watched Barcelona closely this season they do a lot more dedending than they used to. Of course Umtiti may disappoint going forward but he's had a great season thus far. Been good on the ball and Barca's best this far. Question is whether he keeps it up (been a bit dodgy last few games).
I cannot believe you have watched either of Varane or umtiti play to come out with that post .
While we're mentioning Varane I saw someone come out with the old "he's injury prone' tag. He isn't injury prone, see below:
Umtiti will pen the new deal soon for Barcelona. He is their best defender and Valverde will never want to lose him. This is his new look Barcelona and I'm surprised that we (fans) are falling for it.
I would prefer Alderweireld to Umtiti who is just 5'11" and could find it hard with the big centre forwards in Premiership . Alderweireld has done it in Premiership.
Text Speak
How many matches of Barca and Madrid have you guyz watched? I have watched enough of Barca and Umtiti to safely say he is overrated.
Can you guyz say how many matches of De Ligt, Otamendi, Skriniar, Vertonghen, Pavard, Salif Sane, Koulibaly, Tarkowski, Ramos have you guyz watched respectively to form opinion that they are not as good as Umtiti?
Looks like you guyz have too much liking for flavor of a season. why do you think Varane has much more international caps than Umtiti? Why do you think Umtiti has not scored any goals this season (not that i am judging him for that, but it shows he is not the strongest in air).
I already told the likes of Skriniar, Godin, Otamendi, De Ligt, Vertonghen all have better season than him and there are a lot more. I am just suggesting there are CBs who are better than him and we should pick one of those based on age/transfer fee/wages and most importantly natural defending abilities. Playing for barca mask a lot of defensive frailities.
Regarding bringing players from smaller leagues, its not a problem as long as you identify the correct ability. Umtiti himself was brought to Barca from Ligue 1, the league which might be just above De Ligt's Eridivise. Have you heard of Frank De Boer and Ronald Koeman? Our own Vidic was from RUssian league, for example.
If your answer is to again just talk some bullocks without having any backing, then you need not answer.
Umtiti can leap like a Salmon. Height is not an issue.
I can tell you that none of the french players you mentioned(Sané, Koulibaly, Pavard, and Varane) are better than Umtiti and that's not a new thing, Umtiti has been playing at a high level since the day he started at professional level.
You might be right about Sane and Koulibaly, not sure on Pavard and Varane though. But my point being there are centre backs out there who are as good as him, but would not cost a fortune to sign.
Yes, Umtiti has been playing at high level since his young days, but so has others.
Pavard isn't even in the conversation, so when you talk about flavour of the month you really shouldn't mention him. And Umtiti is better than Varane, not by much but he has just been a lot more consistent over the years, also you are never signing Varane for 60m€. From a french standpoint it's fairly simple, Umtiti is the best than you have Varane and after them you have a long list made of Laporte, Lucas, Upamecano, Kimpembe, Pavard and several others who have little experience or shown real inconsistency.
You talk about Umtiti being a flavour of the season and then mention Pavard as his equal?
can you read the very next sentence plz..
I've read it and i struggle to see what the likes of Pavard, Sane, de Ligt, tarkowski, skriniar have done to be called as good and why you think ramos, varane, alderweireld and Koulibaly will cost less.
Umtiti had a career before Barca and a system that required different things and he excelled there as well. Defenders of his quality and proven track record won't go for 50mil anymore.
You will be saying exactly that when Barca signed Umtiti himself in 2016.
Alderweireld and Koulibaly will cost less because they are in considerably less wages. Umtiti's reported 9m Net wages in five years = 75M outlay for the club, thats a lot. Yes the market has changed a lot, but I am sure there are lot of centre backs out there who can do a job and would not cost anywhere near Umtiti.
This isn't 2016. You cannot simply write off his performances at Barca as a given as if it's a given that every guy makes such a big step up with such aplomb.
its safe to say Every season, few centre backs make a huge step up and make a case for themselves that they are top players. Umtiti has breakout season this year, Toby Alderweireld in 14/15 & Sule, Gimenez being others who are recently proving they can be top players. Jose and our scouts have to find such players and buy them in relatively decent sum.
This notion that you can get ready made players only by spending crazy money has to stop. Lets not forget Jose already signed 2 CBs.
Also, we do not have infinite amount, the money we pay for Umtiti, we will be compromising on some other position.
You've moved the goalposts quite considerably. Going from a long list of CBs being as good and cheaper to finding the next gem.
Toby, Gimenez, Sule, Skriniar, De Ligt are hardly next gem, they are already top players and they will cost around half of Umtiti considering transfer fees and wages.
The guyz are clearly talking buloney.
Aberweireld has buyout clause of 25 mil in summer next yr
We'd have to wait another year to get him at that price.
By all means I think Alderweireld is much more likely than Umtiti to join us, but he wouldn't be 25m this summer.
if you offered Spurs more than the buy out clause, you could get him sooner. You could still get him for a decent price in this over inflated market
Unless 'guyz' is an in-joke, this must be one of the most annoying posts of the year.
Thanks for the compliment.
I use to follow Barca and Madrid games with the tv muted and listening to Spanish radios and they are always questioning Varane and praising Umtiti all the time.
Also, i think there is an abuse of the term "overhyped" in the Caf, and claiming Umtiti is overrated is just ridiculous.
Also, i think there is an abuse of the term "overhyped" in the Caf, and claiming Umtiti is overrated is just ridiculous.
Yeah, agree with that.
Alderweireld to me is the highest quality likely option for us.
He’s class but this move wouldn’t make sense for him. Unless he is a die hard united fan which I sincerely doubt.
Why is there an argument on which centre back is better between Umtiti, Varane, Alderweireld, Skriniar, Koulibaly and De Ligt when they’re ALL better than what we have and any would be an upgrade ?
Because we all want the best cb we can get?
Not sure if it's been posted yet on this thread but..
http://global.espn.com/football/soc...nd-i-talk-a-lot-about-barcelona-samuel-umtiti
He speaks of discussing the environment of Barca with Griezmann and talking about his future objectives with Barca.
So surely his quotes have already quashed all rumours of him moving away from Barca?
Then again, you never know with Ed 'Wheeler Dealer' Woodward...
http://global.espn.com/football/soc...nd-i-talk-a-lot-about-barcelona-samuel-umtiti
He speaks of discussing the environment of Barca with Griezmann and talking about his future objectives with Barca.
So surely his quotes have already quashed all rumours of him moving away from Barca?
Then again, you never know with Ed 'Wheeler Dealer' Woodward...
How many goals did Chelsea actually score?
This is enough reason not to sign him, tbf.