That probably sounds insane for a football fan from England, but making a semi final at a world cup is more business as usual and less excitement for most Germans. Since the second world war (54 in our case, we didn't take part in 1950), we've always been in the quarter finals and only 4 times we didn't at least make it to the semi finals. We're talking about 3 wins in 7 final appearances out of 15 world cups, with 4 semi finals and 4 quarter finals. We're constantly overachieving because of team work, because of determination, we were often dire and shit in the qualifications, but even with our bad teams, at the worldcup, we gave everyone a game, we were tough to beat. Now it feels like the exact opposite, exciting to watch against the weaker teams, but clueless against the first quality team that has a very good tactical plan. The games against Spain in 08, 10 and the game against Italy in 2012 were embarrassing, simple as that. Sure overall, we played good tournaments, but it's really different to what made our nationalteams special in the last 60 years. A better manager might combine what made us great in the past with what makes us great today, comparable to what Heynckes did at Bayern last season. It's a bit frustrating and I think the feeling that we won't beat Spain or Italy won't go away for me, doesn't matter how great we play against everyone else. I hope that helps a bit to understand why I lack excitement for the world cup right now.
Sami Khedira
- Thread starter Vinay
- Start date
I am not English (in case you were implying that, maybe I misunderstood), but I totally understand.
Because of your pedigree and history as a sporting nation, it has become a bit of an expectation. I'd imagine most German fans would be terribly disappointed with anything less than semis, & nothing will change with such a strong team coming to Brasil in 2014. I've always loved watching Germany because their football team (and other sports teams) reflected the stereotypical (yet flattering all the same) German mindset - no superstars, just hard work, mental strength & organization. It's nice to see 11 players work so well as a unit, like a well-oiled machine - it's really what football is about. I wouldn't even call it overachieving - hell, if you got to the latter stages of the competitions so many times without star players, then you deserve it all the more.Indeed it is strange, now, to see a German side a little bit dysfunctional in the bigger games (ever since WC2010) but just remember you are in transition, I doubt this will carry on forever. Plus, there is no shame in losing to Italy or Spain (in their current form of the last few years), especially the latter - it is simply Germans being Germans that means anything other than first place is a disappointment. That sort of mentality is important to have - it makes losing harder to take, but winning much sweeter (sort of like the feeling we have here at United - perfectionists), and it seems many of the German players share the sentiment.
Sorry to go off-topic, guys!
I wonder how are things with him. He is not really needed in Madrid, has contract until 2015, so only a year left. I think it's quite possible to get him for 20 mil pounds. Which is a good value.
Who says?
Well, Real interest in CMs, obviously Ancelotti does not want him and does not consider him a first choice for top matches. The system Real plays require Alonso-Modric and quick, attacking type of player like Di Maria, Isco in the center. While first two are suppose to sort of cement the center, the latter one used for overloading areas, mostly going to left, allowing Ronaldo to drop to CF position.
Khedira can't do it obviously. So he will be forced to be a sub for Alonso/Modric.
We would never get him for that much. Wasn't it reported we went in for him with £40m when Moyes was here
That was when he had two years of contract. The value tend to drop drastically when it's only a year left. It's like a 50% off really
I don't want him to be honest, he is overrated for me, he is not strong enough in defence to play as the deepest midfielder and is also not creative going forward, especially in a midfield 2 I don't rate him at all. Do not want him, especially for big money. Germany would do better with dropping him and Özil.
Completely agree (bar the Özil part). He's got great stamina and work rate but he's not very good on the ball, and isn't disciplined enough to stay in position. He's great at making runs into the box but it's a bit useless doing that when you're an awful finisher.
No thank you.
Great in the air; average at everything else, and isn't convincing at all with the ball at his foot.
Even if he was going for £20 million this summer, I'd rather we just keep the money.
Great in the air; average at everything else, and isn't convincing at all with the ball at his foot.
Even if he was going for £20 million this summer, I'd rather we just keep the money.
He's a bit limited as a midfielder isn't he ?
Ugh. Never understood what on earth Mourinho saw in him at Madrid. The difference between Mourinho's Madrid's generally disappointing showing in big games and Ancelotti's Madrid's much more impressive performances is hugely down to replacing Khedira with Modric in those line-ups. Obviously that's a tactical thing, much more positive from Ancelotti. But it's also just because Modric is actually an incredible midfielder, whereas Khedira is physicality and work-rate and not much more. He used to be the dead end in so many attacks for them.
Just imagine Moyes would've gotten him for the 40m Moyes wanted. Fellaini and Khedira for a whopping 67,5m. Would battle the KKK signings for the worst transfer window in history.
Still disturbs me that we apparently bid that much for him last summer. Just goes to show, things could actually have been even worse under Moyes.
Interesting. I seem to remember him getting game time before the injury.
To be fair, he doesn't seem the type who minds being a squad player at Real. So for that reason he probably wont leave. Though I totally get what you mean.
Not really
You remember correctly, he did get a lot of minutes before his injury, was pretty much a first choice player. I think he'll struggle to get back into the side though, he doesn't add anything that Modric and di María don't already give them, while he can't match their technical ability.
I honestly hope we offload him this summer, never really been a fan of him.
I think he's strong enough in defense to play as the deepest midfielder. Stronger than anyone else we'd throw out there. If he's healthy, I'd love to see him as the slightly deeper of a midfield 2 behind Kagawa/Mata.
Or if we go to 4-3-3 and sign some mythical deep playmaker, he'd be good as one of the 2 CM's in front.
If he's available for 20 we sell Fellaini for 15 tomorrow, add 5 to Madrid and walk away delighted.
Another who would probably prove an upgrade on our current options yet RedCafe doesn't want.
I'm with you on this one though, unless he was to replace Fellaini.
I'm with you on this one though, unless he was to replace Fellaini.
I'd rather we just promoted someone, and used the £15 million to pay the wages needed for a top midfielder.
If a replacement for Fellaini was 100% necessary in that scenario, I'd go for Schnederlin (and a handful of others) before Khedira.
Last edited:
Surely it was one or the other.
Wouldnt want him for 20mil, not after the kind of injury he's just had. Too risky.
I am not English (in case you were implying that, maybe I misunderstood), but I totally understand.
Indeed it is strange, now, to see a German side a little bit dysfunctional in the bigger games (ever since WC2010) but just remember you are in transition, I doubt this will carry on forever. Plus, there is no shame in losing to Italy or Spain (in their current form of the last few years), especially the latter - it is simply Germans being Germans that means anything other than first place is a disappointment. That sort of mentality is important to have - it makes losing harder to take, but winning much sweeter (sort of like the feeling we have here at United - perfectionists), and it seems many of the German players share the sentiment.
Sorry to go off-topic, guys!
Thanks, I think...
But "no superstars"? Every German team had his stars and one or more superstars. Even the 2002 team, who was a mix of too old and too young had Kahn. And he was the best goalie ever in that world cup.
We have a great spirit. Thats true. But any team wants to win in a world cup. We have this great history because we had great trainers, great players and luck here and there.
Cant see @Balu points about Löw for example. He is a great coach, who built this great team, the fantastic playing style.
So you see; its a package.
To Khedira: Any team wants such a player. That Löw is willing to take him to the world cup when he missed 6! months of playing and training should tell you what you need to know.
He is a great defensive midfielder who has the heart and brain to run the show.
Yup. I really cannot fathom the fact that we were willing to shell £40m for him...
I mean I still rate him as a player but I'm not a fan of the type of player he is.
He's better than fecking Fellaini. He'd walk into our midfield currently.
He's better than fecking Fellaini. He'd walk into our midfield currently.
Many players are better than Fellaini and would currently walk into our midfield. Doesn't mean we should sign them.
Thanks, I think...
But "no superstars"? Every German team had his stars and one or more superstars. Even the 2002 team, who was a mix of too old and too young had Kahn. And he was the best goalie ever in that world cup.
We have a great spirit. Thats true. But any team wants to win in a world cup. We have this great history because we had great trainers, great players and luck here and there.
Cant see @Balu points about Löw for example. He is a great coach, who built this great team, the fantastic playing style.
So you see; its a package.
To Khedira: Any team wants such a player. That Löw is willing to take him to the world cup when he missed 6! months of playing and training should tell you what you need to know.
He is a great defensive midfielder who has the heart and brain to run the show.
Perhaps superstar was the wrong word. I was simply referring to how the team has always operated well as a unit, never relying solely on one player to compensate for several other passengers in the side. It was always tactics & the player mentalities over sheer talent (there were many extremely talented players for Germany over the years, i'm not saying otherwise), but that's just how I see it. I understand your point.
I'm undecided about Löw - I did rate him and was impressed by him since the 2010 World Cup, but I can't say I agree with too many of his selections as of late. He does make some puzzling choices, but that - of course - is a matter of opinion. He is clearly competent, I just think Germany have regressed a little in the last year or so. That said, we can only judge properly during this WC, as your last major tournament was exactly two years ago. Who knows, I wouldn't be surprised to see Germany do very well this summer.
Edit: I rate Khedira. I don't think he's anything spectacular, but he is a hard worker on the pitch and is solid defensively. I think he gets too much stick, perhaps because he is a downgrade on the rest of Madrid's (amazing) midfield options. I don't see why he shouldn't go.
Don't rate him at all, he's slow and bang average technically.
Fair views of you. Yeah, got you wrong. Im tired of some (English) hating for our great 80s and 90s sides.
Yeah, I hope Löw has a great world cup, he deserves it. Sami should be ready for the bench. He can lead there too. Overall the German team is a bit of a surprise package. Only 25 days!!!
I didn't say we should, to be fair. I'd rather we'd signed Khedira than Fellaini in the summer, though.
Not what I'm hoping for this summer but certainly better than what we have.
He'd be an ideal signing for Mourinho but he's just a German Jordan Henderson for me.
He'd be an ideal signing for Mourinho but he's just a German Jordan Henderson for me.
For something like 15m(having in mind he's surplus to the requirements and contract about to run out) I'd take him in a heardbeat. He's a great squad player to have in a position we badly need.
No worries mate!
I can imagine, some people just don't let things go. Fear not, I am not English myself - I actually tend to support Germany in many major tournaments. I just love the people, & the country in general.I hope Germany do well, as I always do, & wouldn't bet against you guys reaching the semis or even the final. I have my reservations about Joachim Löw, but I think he has many good qualities & a fine team at his disposal. Cannot wait for this World Cup.
If it means we offload Fellaini, well then I'd take this guy in a heartbeat for around 15m.
Long haired gash Milan Baros.
That's not really something special, and especially when I watch Germany I can't agree about his defending abilities. He is not disciplined enough and always make room for opponents with his unproductive runs forward. He would be just another midfielder like Carrick or even Cleverley on a lower rate, he can a little bit that and something of that, but nothing really great and would be better suited in a midfield 3. What we need now is not only quality, but further a specialist for our CM positions. A playmaker, who is really creative and great with the ball, like Scholes was and someone like Kroos could be and beside him someone who is mobile, dynamic and great at defending, a destroyer who could protect our playmaker. If we then want to play with a 3rd CM too, you can add a allrounder like carrick or someone like Khedira, who adds his immense workrate to our game. But I just can't see him as one of 2 behind Mata or Kagawa and it would be difficult to find a suitable cm partner for him. Reminds me of Felliani, and yeah Sami is much better, but it could end similiar and to sign both last summer would have been a disaster scenario for me.